Me too!

Same here a Christian American

This is a great article about

How 😢we got to this point

I just ground him. I’m Now looking for everything. Amazing.

Said so well. Thank you.

😢​@@harlanglass

Well that explains the Palestinians in WestBank. Why should they be good victims and allow to be displaced and killed and be unwanted.

@@Tas2270 if they believed that they are worthy and valuable and inherently loved, they wouldn't want to murder jews nor kill themselves in the process. They don't love themselves. No one is asking them to justify their existence. If they valued themselves and their lives, and the lives of others and wanted peace, if they would be partners for peace, rather than destructive, there would have been a successful two state solution decades ago. They aren't victims. They make themselves into martyrs for a cause - the eradication of Israel. If they dropped this genocidal cause, everyone would live together beautifully.

Who is displacing them? 20% of Israel's population is Palestinians who choose to treat jews as equals. Those guys in Gaza and West Bank refuse to accept a jew as an equal.

​​​@@Tas2270 the Palestinians were offered a country in 1936, 90/10 split. Not only was there the refugee issue from Europe, There were local indigenous Jews who never left, and there were refugees from Arab countries. Jews had purchased land from Arabs to the extent that some of the Arabs persecuted (to death) 150 other Arab leaders for selling Islamic holy lands that Muhammad (actually, Umar) conquered in 637. Rather than make a deal on a 90/10 split, the response was the Arab Revolt and the refusal to establish an independent state in the land of Palestine. This would be the second Palestinian Arab State because the British created the first Arab Palestinian state in 1921, the Emirate of transjordan. They had worked on it with local Arab villagers and mini Kings for 5 years. Prince bandar bin sultan spoke for over 3 hours about all the efforts of Saudi diplomats over several decades pressuring Americans and attempting to help Palestinians have their own state, but every time it was this close to a final signature, the top representative who was Yasser Arafat either rejected the deal or in one case he made an excuse to disappear for 3 months. I assume you know that the Arabs of Palestine also refused to establish a state and turned to violence instead in 1947. Is escalated to all out war in 1948 to 1949. I don't know if it's ignorance or conscience propaganda, but people seem to believe that a mass expulsion of Arabs from Israeli cities occurred on May 14th, 1948. That may be because the campaign to totally annihilate the Jews and destroy their state began on May 15th, 1948. Those two things blended together, perhaps, but it was the war that launched people fleeing or being expelled, for various reasons and depending on which historian you listen to. People fleeing War and mass expulsion, that's normal. Look at Syria and Syrian refugees. Even without outright War, there was Jewish mass expulsion from Yemen and Iraq to Morocco and Tunisia and Egypt, as well as Syria and other Muslim states. The people of Israel did not invite the people who just tried to slaughter them to come back and live in the neighborhood. Most israelis, except for probably some religious extremists, would have been overjoyed if the land for peace swaps had resulted in stable peaceful relations with sovereign Arabic, but what happened instead was some combination of terror attacks, for the first Intifada .. AS THE RESPONSE TO THE PEACE NEGOTIATIONS. October 7th was the response to diplomatic negotiations of the Abraham Accords, in which Hamas hoped to disrupt a warming relationship between Israel and other countries like UAE and Saudi Arabia. Not to discount other strategic plans that were laid out in the 1988 Hamas Declaration of existence and purpose. That includes no to any negotiated peace, same as the Arab League three nos in the 1951 Khartoum resolution, no peace, no recognition, etc. They can't have a state which has borders with Israel because that would end the war and would concede that Israel exists, is legitimized, and has borders. After October 7th, the government of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank published orders instructing mosques to begin preaching the Gharqad Tree verse which is Article 7 of the 1988 Hamas Declaration and also is Surah 2922 in the book of Hadiths that is authenticated as Sahih Muslim. That's the verse that calls for total annihilation of Jews and makes it a prerequisite to getting into heaven, a prerequisite to end times and judgment Day. So that is the government that was projected to be the responsible peaceful rulers of a sovereign Palestine nation state, but over and above any commitment to building a nation, the obsession is annihilation of the nation next door.

@@gg_rider wow for such a long worded responses you seem to be the one peddling propaganda. Let me see here getting 10% of shitty land for double the population of Arab is a good deal that they should take happily? Not surprising that is what they tried to do in Canada with Indigenous people. Nakba is a propaganda and of course people leave when they are massacred and that is normal. It’s only when it’s Europeans that it gets enshrined in booked and taught as gospel. The pre-emptive war of Israel was Arabs fault because the baddies just couldn’t be trusted. And somehow Imams are preaching hate 😂😂 dude which Hasbara telegram did you copy and paste this from?

Bro is great

I fear that So much of your beautiful culture, the best culture, was purposefully destroyed by the genocidal Ottoman Turks

He’s mostly wrong, but he makes a brilliant argument.

Lol. You've got communists like Yanis Vanoufakis! But don't feel too bad. Jews have idiotic self-hating commies among their ranks too

@@LOPEKJJJ Share a video of your historical talks please, to elucidate?

Yes..school and mainstream media is total garbage 🗑....they don't teach the truth and all the ugly facts...everything is made up

Why are Iranians so effing cool? THank you for your words. I hope we can all get rid of the Ayatollahs soon and you can get your country back!

I too am immensely proud of the Israeli Jews , in 1969 I left the USA , where I was born, and became an Israeli-American , Today I live in Israel near Haifa . Israelis are the children, and grandchildren of the survivors of the Holocaust, the survivors of "dimmis" the Arab Middle East, even Jews from India. The Israelis are unique tough and sweet , like the sabra plant.

@@martinmartinmartin2996 SMART MAN 🫶🏽 God bless you for seeing the beauty in your people and your homeland. If I wasn’t so certain that my people back home in Iran are going to soon be liberated from the demonic Islamic regime, I would choose to live in Israel in a heartbeat over anywhere else in the world. As a Christian, I’m always warmed by the miracle that is the modern state of Israel and I thank God that I get to live during a time when the Jewish state of ISRAEL exists. Once we send these demonic mullahs and their terrorist praetorian guard the IRGC back to the deepest, darkest pits oh Hell, I will be moving back to Iran and our two peoples will be close friends and allies once again 🫶🏽 God bless Israel 🇮🇱

Thank you, you're awesome! Happy New Years, I believe?

It brings tears to my eyes to hear your generous words. I guess we are hungry for support. Iranian culture is beautiful. So sad the fundamentalists have suppressed your prosperity. May modern ' liberalism' rise again in the world. (note: this use of liberal is not about American political parties but rather freedom and choice, and participation in govt. Thus it includes both Republicans and Democrats in U.S. )

holy or ideology war 😢😢😢 sad. Means, it MUST be war? Jews are the only remaining "NATION" and the only with the divine right to kill?

i watched Fauda too, and appalling how the Israeli agents have the license to kill civilians in a gun fight if they fail to duck down. It’s a TV show and the writers may have exaggerated it. But it’s shocking to see they don’t exercise maximum tolerance protocol.

He is absolutely spewing ideology, you can't hear it because it is the very same ideology that you already believed, as evidenced by your final sentence. There are whole other groups whose story he is not telling. This is all from the perspectives of the poor bullied Jews. Did you know that Croatians, and Polish, were tortured and abused in concentration camps during this period? He calls them "Nazi collaborators" in this "history"...this is an EXTREMELY slanted history in which he has just erased or maligned multiple other groups of people who were tortured, victimized, and killed too and everyone is gushing over it. It is sick.

Israelis can literally travel.anywhere in the world, but Palestinians cannot. You are inverting the truth

in fairness, the Palestinian assassinated him for annexing West Bank in 1950, leaving them no land left of their own

Whenever people complain about Israeli democracy, I ask them “How many Israelis immigrated from democratic countries?” The answer is almost zero. Czarist Russia, Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Yemen, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Morocco, the USSR”. You’ve got every system of autocratic government imaginable. Autocracy is easy. Religious fundamentalism is easy. Hating others is easy. Democracy is hard. It’s not natural, it takes time, and you have to learn by doing. Give this tiny post-colonial state a fucking break, just like you give every other messed up post-colonial state a break. And when the Palestinians have a state, trust me, it will be an equally messed up post-colonial state. I’m not saying don’t fight for democracy and peace - please do. Just - understand that Israel (and the PA and Iraq and Afghanistan and Malaysia and India and Pakistan) are not America, France, Germany, Britain or Australia. Not because if “cultural differences” or “Western values” but because it took hundreds of years for those nations to establish the kind of democracies they have today, EVEN WHILE they controlled most of the power, money and resources available globally.

I think Zionism places a huge emphasis on not having a "victim mentality" which did prove very fruitful in the project of state-building, but of course that also had its downsides.

I think about it every day but never did nearly as much before October

This came out on YT a few days ago: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur

Keep studying and practicing. Memorize a few passages and see how your tongue will become more disciplined and flexible. Read a lot 🤝

*Haviv

This came out March 14th on YT: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur

Yep, and we Jews (as are Indians too) have a VERY good memory (Kirgil etc')

The Palestinian People have been suffering from zionist terrorists for nearly 100 years !! It's time to give back Palestine to its people

Of course not because it will change the course of history and global politics. I disagree that he thinks Palestinians are unaware of Israelis as refugees. The concept of insane is fundamental part of Muslims faith, however Israeli IdF applying Christian thinking and firming up nationalistic identities (all the things that they resented) is the problem. They are not coming up the “final solution” they want their land back and why should they be apologetic? They have a moral and just ask. If we deny it then we are playing into hierarchy of victimhood. For all the folks listening to lectures here would be great for them to learn the global history in the 1800 of the world to understand that everyone was screwed who wasn’t a Christian European.

Gur doesn't care about October 7th. He still advocates for the Palestinian state.

SALaM, SHLAMa, SHLOMo, SHALoM, NAMASTe, PEACe. ZiONiSM & STATe TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With JUDAiSM. ISIS, TALEBaN & TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With ISLaM.

Today you would have to be religious to come. I know many who tried, it just didn’t work for them. I know people who were talked out of it by their Israeli relatives.

​@@GA-sn1hn I am an Israeli and my wife and kids have an American citizenship. After 7.10 she was willing to consider us moving there, but when all the college antisemitism rose, it seemed harder to decide which country if safer for our kids.

Not all Israelis are refugees. My family for example, immigrated from Europe to South America, where both my parents were born. They had a very good and comfortable life there but decided to make Aliya (immigrated) to Israel about 50 years ago for Ideological reasons. They were offered to go to the U.S. and had refused. I'm glad they did 😊

I owe an abiding debt of gratitude to my forebears for having the guts, initiative, risk taking attitude to flee Eastern Europe for the States.

​@theunboundDragon what an effing evil ideology

@@theunboundDragonlol tou aren’t helping 😅

Everybody's luck in finding America is proving to be temporary

So the Holocaust lesson is to go and displace another people.

​@@marouanenajar3026 nope

True -- he needs to do another lecture. And these jews are now > 50% of ISrael's poopulation. AS an ashkenazi israel-born jew I'm ashamed to say we dominate the narrative.

It's not omitted. There's a graph showing the percentage of Arab jews of the Aliyot in different years 27:30, and he talks about it for a few minutes

He mentioned they also suffered but doesn't really elaborate. You're right that a lot more can be said about it. There are other videos specifically about this topic (not by Haviv)

I'm pretty sure he had a scheduled time, seems he was mostly talking to american Jews, he didn't mention the more recent Russian immigration or the Ethiopian at all.

How are song and dance essential in Jewish orthodox rituals? Most cultures have been influenced by Israel and its Torah. So there’s a connection between the Jewish people and Black Americans, as well as to white Christians, Arabs, Europeans, Russian orthodox Christians, Latinos, etc.

​@@LOPEKJJJHave you seen all the clips of IDF soldiers dancing? You can also find lots of clips of religious Jews dancing. And you might want to check out the rap music of Orthodox Jewish Nissim Black. He is cool.

Oddly , Reform Jews go long into Presbyterian choral music and white bread folk songs , too. Must be that opera influence

Most Jews fleeing Eastern Europe from 1880 to 1920 understood immediately what racism meant in America. It meant exactly what they just left. They knew it was wrong and they sympathized, even as they were also glad that for once they were not the target. Bring classified as white - as part of a majority group - was the biggest ironic joke any Eastern European Jew could possibly have experienced. For this reason, American Jews have - until very recently - been the least attached to white identity of any white immigrants. I’m not saying we aren’t attached - everyone offered full citizenship takes that offer - just that we understood immediately that America was confused and thought we were a protected religion instead of a hated ethno nationalist group. And those who were paying close attention understood that Jews could only be part of the “majority” because someone else had taken our usual place as the “minority”.

You can find it on the channel of the Shalem College or on KZfaq under "The Great Misinterpretation." It posted 2 weeks ago. Just as good as this one, actually even better IMHO. These students can count themselves very lucky to have been able to experience these lectures and visit Israel.

This came out a few days ago in YT: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur

@@SuperMCFIVE And I thought that one was great. Wow

@@SuperMCFIVEThanks. These took place a while a go I think. They're spacing them out.

Your worldview was threatened by the possibility that one admirable figure in history might not be Jewish? Very weird comment

Dude, most of the Arabs that call themselves “Palestinians” are not even native to the land. Their forebears came to the Mandate from surrounding countries, such as Egypt, once the British arrived in the 1920s. They’re basically just squatter-terrorists. Or terrorist-squatters.

Please, spar us.

Hey, spawn of Neanderthals. We migrate. Get over it

Because it's our ancient homeland, it's the place jews are indigenous to, where we became a nation. There were also non stop Jewish communities there for thousands of years, so the Jews were essentially joining the other Jews that were already there

I think the most honest answer is that they have a point and it wasn’t their job to accept Jewish refugees. But Jews are a Semitic people and TBH the longer Israel exists, the most Semitic Israeli and all Jews worldwide have become. I think you can recognize that the Palestinians experienced a historic injustice and tremendous loss and also that most Jews would never have arrived there unless they were fleeing for their lives. Now both people have experienced dispossession and loss and in theory that can create more understanding rather than more hatred IF they are willing to take seriously the others experience.

Thank you for that, I have never read the “one state solution” expressed like that.

comments like this makes me wanna go back cheering the other side. we are all hurting. yeah yeah i know. sorry. shalom.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h9J7ZdCXvr_RZIk.htmlsi=cG6irr0mLfUkb4M9

The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur

No one is absolutely anything, much less being right. Whatever being right means. There aren't any absolutes in real life.

what are the signs of a colonial project? Apartheid? Why does apartheid exist? And what’s your solution to replace it in light of the fact that Hamas have told Jews in no uncertain terms that they’re coming for the lives of Jewish women and children as soon as they have a chance which means as soon as Israel withdraws and allows them to reconstitute themselves. You really need to learn to think through the implications of what you’re saying.

It didn’t apply to Western Europe but the vast majority of Jews fleeing persecution were in Eastern Europe.

He left that history out because it doesn’t serve his thesis to explain why Americans Jews are so liberal. It ignores the sefardic jews that first settled America and people like Judah P Benjamin who owned slaves and was the number 2 man in the confederacy.