I have rolled down for a long time untill someone had allso mentioned that.

And then you have then Germans being like "Yeah we'll call this thing LONG KNIFE"

@@SimoLInk1698 AFAIK the name was supposed to hit home the idea that "this is NOT a sword, it's a KNIFE", because commoners were not allowed to wear swords. @Alireza: Thanks for explaining. That's interesting.

before seljuk turks, shamshir was an straight sword. The central asian (oghuz Turkman) curved sabre adopted by persians and they think its originally persian.. the truth is this curved shamshirs are originally a type of Turkish kilij goes back to Seljuk Turks.

@@ejdermengov Both right and wrong Right for the definition of the Persian swords before central Asian influence but wrong about Persian belief about curved swords Look Persians never claimed that curved swords are their creation but they think its the Arab invention and most of the modern Iranians don't know that the idea of having curved swords didn't come from Arabs but from the central Asian Turk/Mongoloid people Even modern Iranian movies and series which built around the history of Islam representing Arabic swords as curved ones which is completely wrong but they are not aware of that That's it

Ugh... Until I started filming this video I didn't appreciate how difficult it was going to be to say anything about these swords without having to explain every geographic region and culture and list all the exceptions to most things you can say about them...

@@scholagladiatoria It is a struggle. Can't be too specific, or be too vague. In the end, your point was heard. "Shamshir" and "Kilij", in a modern sense, refer to specific swords, but etymologically, both refer generically to "sword".

@@ninjastyle5187 Arabs of the early caliphates used straight swords similar to Byzantine ones, the spread of curved swords came to middle-east with spread of steppe soldiers and cultures, especially after Mamelukes and Timurids came to control large parts of it.

@@ninjastyle5187 Really? I had thought they came from Steppe horsemen.

​@@somerando1073 I'm pretty sure Matt made whole video discussing this issue at some point. Basically, we don't really know which people originally invented the curved saber-style sword, just that it emerged _somewhere_ in the general area ranging from eastern Europe to Mongolia. Which, you know, doesn't really narrow it down very much.

Gold

I am proud of you

Sabres were already in use due to the influence of Slavic hussars at Napoleons time. Good meme though.

Mirth...

@@hatejethro1164 yeah and they're based on Middle East people weaponry culture. Even before the Islam came.

Actually there is little wrong knowladge on your writing but i dont know english well to explain

Not BOYNUZ but MAHMUZ: Which means SPUR

@@cemalhunal2659 Thank you for the correction. You are right. It's mahmuz.

In the west it's called a Mameluke sword due to it having been popularized by Napoleon's troops bringing back swords as war trophies from the Egypt campaign. Egypt at the time was ruled by the Mamelukes (or mamluk, originally slaves) who used this type of sword which was typical in the middle eastern world at the time. I guess the French didn't really care what other cultures called them, and just thought of them as "the swords that the Mamelukes use." Interesting that you call them "pear like." I'm guessing due to the shape of the pommel?

@@RelativelyBest that's right. That's a really favored shape in the late Ottoman era. And I knew the Napolean's campaign made them popular in the west. Even after the coalition wars as I remember correctly there was one British regulation sword for high ranking officers with that kind of pammel. (google check; 1831 Pattern)

Western person: yes.

I am ok with my AK47

Jon Goat yay nerds!!

@@antonm8719 Ak 😍😍😍

@@antonm8719 literal mongrel of stg44 with m1 rifle lol

You're not supposed to put a space between the asterisk and first or last letter of what you're trying to embolden.

Hema People roll nat 20's across the board rip rip rip rip rip

@@The_Crimson_Fucker when following a colon, asterisks have been used to indicate an action taken rather than words spoken, so he may be aware that leaving out the spaces *boldens* the text.

@@kylethomas9130 I know but on KZfaq the custom is to embolden actions.

@@The_Crimson_Fucker when I say 'have been used,' I should have clarified before KZfaq.

Jon Goat well, people kept things simple

Can I think kilij means sword in all the Turkic languages

@@Ake-TL That's right with some changes. It's one of the oldest words in Turkish.

Jon Goat turkic*, like descendants of turks,not modern turks, but like gokturk khaganate turks

@Jon Goat Yes that's kinda true. We call all of them Turkish because we can understand each other. You can travel from Istanbul through all of Asia and you can end in the north of Mongolia without a need for another language other than Turkish. There are lots of Turkic languages as well.

@The Bengalee Sceptic I agree. It doesn't seem that "Sayf" (سيف) refers to a Kiliç-esque blade but rather, a blade closer in characteristics to a Shamshir (شمشير) of the Persian type. However, I could always be mistaken.

@@D_M_U I thought "saif" was more commonly used to refer to the straight middle-eastern swords used in the early Islamic empire. But I could be wrong, I'm not Arab.

@@Aa-dc2xu I'm not Arab either, but after studying Arabic for the military and having been exposed to the language through friends and acquaintances, it seems it's used as a general word for sword and refers to both in normal speech. Although, when used in English, it does seem that the use of the word, "saif" / "sayf", does tend to have the connotation of the curved Arab/ Middle Eastern variety, albeit if speaking Arabic, the term would be used to refer to any sword as it is simple the Arabic word for, "sword".

@@D_M_U Fair enough, I knew that saif was the word for sword in Arabic. I think it was a wiki article (the one called the "arab sword") I read a year ago which made me thought that saif mainly referred to arab straight swords. Now that I think about it, wiki probably wasn't the best place to research such a confusing topic lol.

I am Arab. The word saif is a sword. Doesn't matter which kind it's the word that directly translates into sword in English. If an Arab wants to talk about a specific sword he would specify by adding an adjective like saying Saif Arabi (Arabic sword), Saif Turki (Turkish sword) , Saif Farsi (persian sword) or Saif Yabani (Japanese sword); in this case I'd just say Al-Katana (the Katana). Ps: Arabic sword is the straight double edged one used by the early Islamic, Arabic conquests of the Middle East... If you feel like calling the Arabic sword a "Saif" it's ok Trivia: Saif is actually a somewhat common male name in the Arab world even nowadays

I was going to say the same thing. To add to this, the Mameluke hilt sword was issued to all Marine Corps officers and was meant as a service sword. However, they did switch to the Army Model 1850 Foot Officer's sword from 1859 - 1875, basically just prior to and for a while after the Civil War.

@@Riceball01 I did not know that. Do you know what the rationale was for the change?

@@itsapittie From what (little) I've read, it was because the Mamaluke hilted sword, as issued, was deemed ineffective in hand to hand combat (blade shape/size was inadequate) and the hilt didn't offer enough protection.

@@Riceball01 if it is like the CS version, then I'd be surprised about poor cutting and thrusting capabilities. However, their version might lack the distal taper of the original. The reach should be pretty average actually. Only the lack of hand-protection stands out to me.

@@Riceball01 If anyone ever gets the chance to head down to Virginia/DC the Marine Corps Museum has the original sword - its really cool

This is very much on my to-do list. I know Neil and we have spoken about it, we just need to get it organised.

@@scholagladiatoria Great to know! Thanks for taking the time to reply.

If you like Matt, you might like Lindybeige and Skallgrim too? Both of them have done videos on bronze weapons. Though, I'd like to see Matt's take on them too.

@@somerando1073 Avid watcher of those two as well, though as you say, I'd like to see Matt's take.

The swords of Borneo would make an interesting topic, particularly the "parang ilang" and "mandau" of the highlands: as far as I know, they are the only blades forged with a _lateral_ curve.

@Magnat Karabela was also in ottoman turkey, and came from turkey to Poland. The name is actually turkish, means Black Curse. But yeah, poland used them both as karabela bojowa and karabela kontuszowa

@@IPostSwordsFinally, after so many years, someone translated the term Zabłocki failed to do during the times of the Polish People's Republic.

@@jozefkozon4520 Literature from the PRL will always have flaws as a consequence of isolationism and a desire for lost and suppressed nationalistic pride. We need to move past the limitations of authors back then and accept that the mistakes they made were not an intentional slight on other cultures, or a willingness to be inaccurate, but merely a consequence of the times, and their situation. Zablocki did his best, and his contribution to the field should not be tarnished by a few omissions.

@@IPostSwords I like that you has enjoy my sarcazm.

I am not sure when either. I have often seen that they of hilt called a pistol grip and I would guess it was a post medieval development.

The stradiots did more to spread scimitar use than the ottomans did

All that was about 400 hundred years of using sabre (according to western usage "curved sword" in Hungary, Poland and Russia. Sabre probably came west from Central Asia or Mongolia (The "Saracens" - Arabs - in 11th cent., before Seljuk Turks came, wielded straight swords. Dtto the Persians warring with Romans and Eastern Romans.)

It is a very complex point to convey in one or two sentences on a video :-) The point I was trying to make was that these swords came from Central Asia and did not appear first in the Ottoman or Persian Empires. Indeed those Empires included people from Central Asia, but the swords themselves appeared in Central Asia and were taken to those regions. So I was talking more about the regions than the people per se.

@@scholagladiatoria Ah yes, they didn't pop up in those empires for sure. However, the trade between these nomadic peoples and the arabic-speaking world seems to be established quite early as even the early muslim Caliphs seem to have owned somewhat curvy and unsurprisingly ornate swords. Anyway, I appreciate and enjoy your videos! If you're ever in need of some photos or sources about the medieval Middle East, I'm always eager to help as I literally study it :)

@@commoner__ !! What's the context in which you study the medieval middle east Blake? I ask because I'm interested in pursuing postgraduate study in the topic and have yet to meet any others with the same interest. I wish there was a PM function on youtube... As there isn't afaik, feel free to reply via email if you're interested in a convo :) ryeka.morituri@gmail.com

scholagladiatoria nah how nomads develop Blacksmithing? That is a specialty only settled people’s can have.

Well, where are the pictures?

Indeed: the Egyptians continued to use straight swords into the Crusades, eventually adopting the Turkish style swords. The African Caliphates and Sultanates continued to use straight swords into the 19th century.

He did actually mention that. around 11:20

​@@IPostSwords Yes he did. I commented this before watching the entire thing :)

Yeah it was mostly the Altaic tribes that used curved swords

Actually they weren’t generic, they were built to thrust and kill. Like the European one.

I nearly purchased a shotel recently, just for the vidz!

@@scholagladiatoria you did it for the vidz did you?

Yes indeed Zulfiqar named after particular sword. This particular sword (Zulfiqar) was prophet Muhammad's sword and later was used by Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Thalib. The meaning of Zulfiqar isn't actually sword, Zulfiqar derived from "dhu" meaning possessor, holder. And "faqar" meaning spine, vertebra. So Zulfiqar means "that which has spine", or some interprete as "cleaver of the spine".

Also there is another word for them wich is pata or pala

isn t it a male first name?

*too

It helps a lot with draw cuts.

No it's from Dynasty Forge.

@@scholagladiatoria Looks absolutely identical though, at least from that distance. Beautiful sword either way, glad to see it among your collection.

Indeed.

It’s almost like two lines intersecting at 90° angles has no connection to religion at all!

@@ianshaliczer What, you believe in angles!?

Johanna Geisel not only do I believe in angles, I’ve personally witnessed them.

@@ianshaliczer don't be so obtuse

In fact most I have inspected closely are made of *at least* two pieces. It was fairly common to make them of four pieces.

It is the old European (various languages) term for curved Asian/Islamic swords. And yes it is probably coming from the word shamshir originally.

Yes they are glued with pitch.

@@scholagladiatoria Thanks.

You're absolutely right that turkish swords tend to use that rounded pommel and persian swords used the pommel cap - even if they both had identical "shamshir style" blades.

This brean from far East from Jurchen and mongol helmets

in the middle east and central asia, armor was mostly leather or cloths, with some addition of small metal segments to protect some vital places and it was nowhere similar to the iconic renaissance or crusader armor its even known that mongols used paper armor, and it worked well to repel arrows so this is why sharp edged sabers evolved to defeat leather and paper armors

Looks like a pilum. He recently did a video on it

Sama bro. Saya juga pernah berpikir spt itu. Apalagi jika dibandingkan katana. Tapi sudah teruji di medan laga dan beberapa pertempuran epic melawan kekuatan pedang eropa. Mengenai safety guard, ingat pedang zatoichi? Laah lebih gak aman lagi tapi ternyata tetap mantap di duel lawan katana. Mirip dengan yataghan turki yang no safe guard.

Sorry, no.

@@scholagladiatoria do give it a shot - it's on vimeo, and it's really good.

@@scholagladiatoria Its also on Amazon

If you mean the one at 7:45, it's Bitwa pod Wiedniem (Battle of Vienna) by Józef Brandt.

Thank you.

Yes, this painting has been much discussed and it is now well documented that very curved sabres were sometimes held backwards (particularly in France) in order to deliver a thrust.

@@scholagladiatoria Indeed. You thrust the blade towards openings of the opponent's armor. Using it like a spear in a way.

As far as I know (and I'm no expert on this) light cavalry with these curved swords used them in the charge with the blade inwards (i.e. backwards to what'd be considered standard doctrine). The blade with the edge on the inside would be aimed at parts like the neck or wrist of enemies & you'd try to make contact with the edge just short of the tip of the blade. Then as the cavalryman passed the target, you'd rotate & flick your wrist sideways turning the thrust into a prolonged slash. I know some Indian light cavalry that used this technique in addition to light lances. Once you lost your lance you'd use the sabre in this method. They were said to be able to decapitate infantry in one passing strike if they could target the neck.

Especially India had many forward-curved blades like this, but this one looked more like a Kilij being held wrongly. I honestly see no point in holding it as in the image for delivering a thrust. Such curved blades are meant to be pointed at the opponent to cut while riding by so to speak. If you point with the point instead, it wouldn´t penetrate much, but extract itself automatically. Holding inversely could disarm you! Lastly, I could imagine holding a Katana or maybe a Shamshir with the thick spine facing the opponent in order to whack someone on the helmet.

Yes there is obviously some sort of relationship between early kilij and the Byzantine paramerion, though as far as I understand it, it's difficult to tell which direction the influence went in - the Byzantines were employing a lot of mercenaries and bringing in weapons and fashion from outside. Though we know that Byzantine fashion did have an influence on the early Islamic world.

@@scholagladiatoria dont use kilij please there is no "J" word in turkish😇

Shamshir is tiger claw not tail... sham is claw shir is tiger.... in Arabic is Saif not safe .... and Saif is main word of sword but in Arabic has many meanings of sword or Saif such as Faisal, Hussam, ec

maybe to stop the blade from sticking in to deep.

@@tulkasandhrimnirsson6180 Maybe, I guess. Doesn't look big enough to be all that good at it, though I could be wrong.

@@somerando1073 meh, you're probably right.

İ didn’t get the last part but i think i should’ve say something about these magyar (hungarian) effect on turkish swords. First of all, multiple narrow fullering isn’t unique in ottomans, seljukians, nor other turkish&turkic states. İ can show you many types of sword just like that who used them didn’t meet with magyarians. Yet, That could be true, because turks and magyars were neighbour back the time. And, most of you saw named as kilij, but actually wasn’t kilij, they aren’t good example of turkish martial combat. Turkish sword was curved, thats true, but their sword wasn’t arabians&persians. Nowadays i searched for kilij, i can only see a type of example, an example which we didn’t call it as a sword, it’s name is pala (could be pata) and anyone thinks like it was ottomans general swords. Man, thats hurt. İt wasn’t popular sword, it wasn’t even a sword. Pala mean is equal to machete. You know, it wasn’t using as well as they’d think. www.turkeyfamousfor.com/ottoman-turkish-swords/ These are some “real” examples of turkish martial stuffs. And And why i wrote that much, i dunno, i’m just sick of it. You know, getting count with some people which you got no things in common, thats suck.

arabic swords were like the ones on the video, they were never straight, others like persians and turks copied them after islam

@@emotionalvideos6897 lol

@@YunusKULL Turkey was nothing before islam and arabs.. LOL

@@emotionalvideos6897 bring more salt pls

@@YunusKULL I'm talking with arguments, you don't have so that's why you don't know what to say. Look at history of your own country and then come here to talk.