“Shiny Happy People” Cult was WAY WORSE than Doc Shows (Insider speaks out)
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Күн бұрын*Content Warning: Brief mentions of child ab*se, domestic ab*se, suic*de ideation* The Institute in Basic Life Principles is an extreme Christian fundamentalist set of beliefs that took hold on society when The Duggars (from TLC’s “19 kids and Counting”) made it popular. These beliefs look “Happy and Shiny” from the surface, but deep inside rots the truth about the misogynistic, abusive and oppressive practices that force children and wives to obey at all costs. Jen joins us and tells (for the first time) her painstaking journey of her “poster child” life-- from growing up in the IBLP, to being hand selected by the it's leader Bill Gothard, and the harmful consequences that followed.
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IG: @parrotkindergarten
Trauma therapy techniques: Hypnosis & NLP Trauma therapy
National Domestic Abuse Hotline: www.thehotline.org/
800-799-7233
"Shiny Happy People" can be found on Amazon Prime
• Shiny Happy People: Du...
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Chapter Markers
00:00:00 Intro
00:03:05 What is the Institute in Basic Life Principles?
00:04:18 RULES: no satanic drums...
00:04:49 RULES: Major TV restrictions
00:06:10 First kiss on your wedding day
00:06:57 Her backstory with IBLP
00:08:42 TW: R*pe - Taught that you were responsible for your own assault
00:11:18 Her life before (12 yrs old) and after IBLP
00:11:57 The "shiny happy" transition to homeschooling in 9th grade
00:14:25 Chaperoned dates until marriage
00:15:41 The after effects of these strict rules even after leaving the cult
00:17:03 TW: Child abuse- The darkside of the Duggars (19 kids and counting)
00:18:31 Advanced Training Institute- IPBP homeschooling program
00:20:25 How she is helping DA survivors as an attorney
00:22:11 Graduated HS at 15, started college then volunteered for IBLP
00:25:57 When she was swept up by Bill Gothard (founder of IBLP)
00:27:39 The uncomfortable, sexual tension created by Mr. Gothard
00:32:23 Her punishment severity at home
00:37:15 TW: Child Abuse- Is "Shiny, Happy People" an accurate portrayal?
00:39:56 Infiltrate society with as many kids as you can possibly have
00:42:22 Jokes on YOU IBLP- She homeschools her birds instead of kids
00:45:07 The beginning of her journey out of the cult
00:47:43 When the idea of God unraveled for her
00:50:38 Anxiety of fitting in due to standing out
00:51:38 TW: Domestic abuse- primed for it by IBLP
00:56:20 When she was able to recognize the domestic abuse
00:58:18 TW: domestic abuse & suicide ideation
01:00:25 Her healing journey
01:02:05 How she is doing now! *spoiler alert-amazing*
01:02:34 Teaching parrots to read!
01:04:00 Trauma therapy that worked for her
01:04:27 Linda, Listen
01:05:16 Find and support Jen!
Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara
*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.*
@suitov Жыл бұрын
Wait, _excuse me?_ This young woman went through law school basically on a dare, graduated like it was no big deal, and her worm of a husband was like "you can't do anything on your own"??? GIRL! I don't think you realise, even now, what an incredible woman the world gained when you freed yourself from that cult and then that trash boy. My best to you and your birbs.
@frankiesayspanic Жыл бұрын
right? i am just sat here in absolute awe of this goddess of a woman
@GBfanatic15 Жыл бұрын
she was also smart enough to have SKIPPED GRADES
@janashellbug Жыл бұрын
Isn’t that awful. People don’t understand how extreme these situations are. I’m so glad we have podcasts like this to help educate others. How awful
@Toskrr Жыл бұрын
Men like that are petrified of women. They’re scared little people who try to take women’s power away because they have none. They are the most vile creatures on the face of the planet.
@KKonYouTube Жыл бұрын
These are the type of women that controlling men are afraid of and feel they need to keep down. Their own inferior complex makes them physically and mentally afraid of smart, driven, innovative, personable women, much less beautiful. She's absolutely the gem of the world!!!
@stillhere1425 Жыл бұрын
My friend’s husband is Syrian. His uncle was a paperboy in Syria. He and his friend were collecting his fee, and one lady reached out through the front door, that was open just enough for her to hand him the money, and exposed her forearm almost to the elbow, and the boys almost fainted from excitement. I just thought wow-how erotic is a woman’s arm? How different from a young boy’s? How about his mom’s arm? His sisters’? Obsessive modesty just perverts sexual feelings.
@violet7773 Жыл бұрын
That's awful. The covering of women's bodies is a result of and leads to increase of the hypersexualisation and objectification of women (in any culture, but obviously the Middle East is particularly infamous for it). If your hair or your elbow is something that only your husband is allowed to see, more and more of your body becomes a sexual object and the less you're allowed to be a person
@DimaRakesah Жыл бұрын
It just makes everything sexual. If you're told "don't think about sex" you will just think about sex all the damn time. If you're told a woman's knees are the most sexual thing on earth and should always be covered up suddenly knees are erotic. It's so strange how they think that being more modest and always on guard against sexual thoughts will create less sexuality when it clearly does the opposite.
@sweetlorikeet Жыл бұрын
Right? These reactions are socially created, not innate. In countries where going bare-chested is the daily norm, breasts are no big deal. In Heian era Japan, the nape of a woman's neck was considered a private and erotic part of the body. If you tell your kids that every part of a woman's body is secret and so sexy it'll drive you to uncontrollable lust, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
@mellie4174 Жыл бұрын
Exactly!!
@dewilew2137 Жыл бұрын
Absolutely. The documentary mentions that exact fact. You’re so right.
@StoneCatCreations Жыл бұрын
As a mom now, blanket training breaks my heart. I cannot imagine hitting my child for wanting to play. I cannot imagine taunting him like that. What happened to, "Do not provoke your children to wrath?"
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Exactly. So awful 😢
@shuai83 Жыл бұрын
Jesus quotes the law in Mark 7:10 about putting children to death for cursing their parents. Don't try to make it out to seem like this is just one wayward cults problem with interpretation of an otherwise perfectly healthy scripture and a perfect cult leader. Abuse is a feature of Christianity, not a bug.
@devadii24 Жыл бұрын
It is totally sick 😷 to break a baby’s will… children need limits and boundaries and occasional discipline but not anything like this 😢
@Leslie_Knope Жыл бұрын
It makes me wonder about Catholics as well. I mentioned this to my catholic sister in law and she didn't see a problem with blanket training. I always thought Catholics were odd as well.
@devadii24 Жыл бұрын
@@Leslie_Knope I grew up Catholic and most of my family and friends still are and I never heard of this before; depends on the family I guess
@codirennke1109 Жыл бұрын
The handmaid's tale seems closer and closer to real life all the time. It truly is terrifying as a woman to think of just how wrong this can all go. Thank you ladies for speaking out and doing the hard work.
@charisma-hornum-fries Жыл бұрын
Atwood research a lot of religions of many kinds.
@violet7773 Жыл бұрын
Afaik Atwood based almost everything in the handmaid's tale on things that are currently happening or have happened to women around the world
@goddessahjia2623 Жыл бұрын
this has already happened and on going 😢
@justanidiotmk2749 Жыл бұрын
Atwood also made a fireproof version of the book because of recent events, truly a modern tragedy is unfolding.
@LoneWulf278 Жыл бұрын
@@violet7773 Thank you. I was just going to say this. It’s sad how many people don’t know the ugly history of the world. But I guess it’s also a privilege in a way.
@tiarushing6886 Жыл бұрын
This is absolutely crazy.! I am a mother of three and blanket training for me with my children was to put them on the blanket and toys far away to encourage them to use their body learn to crawl. Reaching favorite toy was the prize for their effort.
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
And THIS is how parenting should be done 🏆
@BlackSeranna 9 ай бұрын
The way it should be done! Good job! I wish I had thought to do this; I just let my kids struggle along and then I’d pick them up and the next day or later on we would try again. Sometimes the kids would just fall asleep on the blanket, after they got their pacifier in their mouth. (Struggling to go forward is pretty hard work)! I do remember them sometimes losing their pacifier and they would struggle toward it which was good motivation. I sure miss baby time days.
@clw87 7 ай бұрын
RIGHT?! 100%.
@AuroraN. Жыл бұрын
That purity culture and blaming women for what happens to them exists in mainstream Christianity too. I grew up in the UMC, and I was fed all that nonsense starting in middle school.
@nerysghemor5781 Жыл бұрын
Damn, I never encountered anti-woman stuff like that in the UMC and I certainly wasn't taught it growing up. I was always taught that men and women have equal responsibility for our own behavior and was never singled out.
@jonathanbowers8964 Жыл бұрын
@@nerysghemor5781the Southern UMC was more conservative and was influenced by the Southern Baptist Church (as they were competing for the same people). The Northern UMC was generally more progressive. The UMC is currently splitting (mostly along these lines) so the UMC that emerges out of this split will be by default more progressive.
@nerysghemor5781 Жыл бұрын
@@jonathanbowers8964 We’re going through all that now where I am and even the more conservative church that has split off is still not at all anti-woman.
@kimholcomb6943 2 ай бұрын
What nonsense? It's wrong to follow the Bible
@kimholcomb6943 2 ай бұрын
Why don't you talk about pentecostal church they are really wacked out. I had a guy frien who's parents were really religious and they were pentecostal they didn't ever talk to their kids about sex they said it was taboo.
@lizzycpeck252 Жыл бұрын
I was indoctrinated into the IBLP at the age of 13 and didn't escape until I was 18. Thank you for having this discussion.
@glory5110 Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad you're free!
@lindseyhendrix2405 Жыл бұрын
Sending tons of love to you from Texas! Do you have a good community around you? 💛🤙🏽
@tricianilsson6870 10 ай бұрын
Much love to you
@porshamills4259 9 ай бұрын
I'm so glad you got Free and are no longer there
@caitlingill 8 ай бұрын
Spending basically your whole teen years in that cult sounds horrific
@DebHickerson Жыл бұрын
My ex-husband wanted to use their homeschool program with our daughters; I refused because country music was not allowed. It wasn't that country music meant that much to me but rather the limitation to personal choice.
@nerysghemor5781 Жыл бұрын
As a Christian there's nothing that angers me worse than people inflicting abuse in God's name. I know in today's severely polarized society it's hard to believe this but I actually think Shelise and I would get along wonderfully and find a lot of similarities in views despite one of us being religious and one of us not. I appreciate that Shelise doesn't bash or mock religious people who are NOT crazy asshole cult abusers. I understand where the anger comes from in many of her guests that causes them to feel that way, but I appreciate she doesn't do that herself.
@simplethings1363 Жыл бұрын
I agree nothing ruins the world's perception of God's character worse than false or unstudied Christians.
@nerysghemor5781 Жыл бұрын
@@simplethings1363 A kind person without a lot of learning is WAY better than a cruel “scholar” though. My granddad’s side of the family was uneducated until my granddad became the first to finish high school, but they generally knew how to treat people right.
@wingedinfinity6715 Жыл бұрын
@@nerysghemor5781 Well said. I feel the same way.
@Orianasama Жыл бұрын
It breaks my heart. The reason people are turning away from Christianity isn’t promiscuity or homosexuality- it’s the hypocrisy of THE CHURCH. It’s so frustrating because if you read the Bible, the one time Jesus gets really angry it’s because of the hypocrisy of the church.
@dreamingrightnow1174 Жыл бұрын
@@Orianasama Also, promiscuity and homosexuality aren't bad or wrong.
@BlessYourHeart254 Жыл бұрын
Sickeningly ironic that a fair number of parents who get into these cults and by default, drag their children in, had secular advantages or more moderate religion growing up 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ Possibly worse when dragged in as a teen, but not good at any age.
@jessigirlrae1688 Жыл бұрын
Yes. This is how I feel. My mother and step father didn't join a specific cult, but became cult like in their fundamentalism. My mom got a boob job and went clubbing when I was in college, but was a crazy religious fanatic by the time my little sister was in highschool. I felt so bad for her. I tell her stories about how her parents were NOT like that and it blows her mind.
@nickywal Жыл бұрын
Some, if not most, are radicalised through tragedy, one of the extreme tradcath types just got more and more extreme as she suffered multiple miscarriages close together. People who are happy don't join cults
@charisma-hornum-fries Жыл бұрын
I was 9 going in and 13 leaving. It was a long time but the taste of freedom from religious dogma became fuel for helping others get out.
@cassiopeiaartco Жыл бұрын
A line from Shiny Happy People that stood out to me was “every dad was a cult leader”.
@sweetlorikeet Жыл бұрын
A lot of people who join the IBLP and adjacent cults (especially in the IFB sphere) seem to think that there's something wrong with their lives and families, and are lured in by the promise that these cult leaders can give them all the answers and solve all their problems. The bait is 'you can give your children perfect lives', and a lot of people want that for their kids and don't know how to give it to them, so they believe these guys. The flip side is the people who are already authoritarian and abusive, and for them the bait is "You can have complete control and we'll not only not condemn you like worldly people would, we'll tell you that you're BETTER than other people for it." So these cults end up half full of people who feel guilty and self-doubting and need reassurance that this is the right way, and half full of people who are all too happy to give them that reassurance because it validates their own desires.
@minnie7783 Жыл бұрын
I was a crunchy hippie scientist-for-a-mom homeschooler but all of my friends were "my dad/mom is a prophet and we are living in the end times" homeschooler. Rural NY is so weird
@K_Riss1 Жыл бұрын
I homeschooled my son who just graduated from 2nd grade through 8th grade. I had a tiff with the school and don't regret it. But during those years I attracted so many scary stereotype homeschooling moms. They were sadly disappointed that I existed. Once I accidentally was dressed like the Duggar girls in their Modern Modesty phase. I. E... long curly hair, the long skirt etc. I had the weirdest encounter with them and asked myself why this keeps happening. Then I realized I looked like them too! Lol.
@amandaburger2506 Жыл бұрын
As a secular homeschooling Mom, I really relate to this. It's hard to find other secular homeschooling families and it sucks when I think we're starting to jive with a family and then they spout some BS that completely contradicts all of our values (I'm sure they feel the same way about me).
@deborahbarry8458 Жыл бұрын
You have summed up the dichotomy
@urmawebb-ue8ww Жыл бұрын
Are you a boomer?
@minnie7783 Жыл бұрын
@@urmawebb-ue8ww lol no im in my early 20s, I have old lady energy tho
@sweetlorikeet Жыл бұрын
37:00 - There is actually a hypothermia death linked to To Train Up A Child. Hana Williams was 13. They found her body outside, underweight and with the marks of daily beatings. She had been left outside and in the barn for days on end. During the investigation, they found the book in the home. Hana is one of three children whose deaths are considered directly linked to the practices taught by the Pearls.
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Nooo that’s awful!!!!
@housebeach Жыл бұрын
@@CultstoConsciousness Sorry, those are ridiculous assertions. Having a book in your possession means nothing unless you are following its teachings. Pearls never advocated treating one's or anyone else's children that way.
@miscalotastuff733 Жыл бұрын
You obviously didnt read the book. Plus the pearls killed some of thier own kids.
@akwood1873 11 ай бұрын
@housebeach It's LITERALLY and instruction manual on how to abuse your children.
@swampophelia2098 11 ай бұрын
@@housebeachyes they did, one phrase he liked to use was “don’t hit your kid straight away, let them have a bit of emotional terror first” they are utter sadists
@Marlodrama Жыл бұрын
This woman is amazing omg. The absolute Elle Woods (of Legally Blonde) dedication and knowledge to get a whole law degree to simply be on potentially equal footing with your entitled partner… wow. Everything else is mindblowingly brave and ambitious as well, but that specific detail just shows so clearly how hard she was fighting for herself. Huge respect all around.
@TheMagdalenaBB Жыл бұрын
She also looks like Miranda from Sex and the City! 😀
@marquitaarmstrong399 Жыл бұрын
So agree.
@ryanlewandowsky2077 Жыл бұрын
I have to agree with you. I keep thinking how difficult it must have been to accomplish anything let alone what she’s done while battling obsessive religiosity.
@ChopsWorldUK Жыл бұрын
@@TheMagdalenaBB I was thinking Kirsten Dunst 😊
@TheMagdalenaBB Жыл бұрын
@@ChopsWorldUK I kinda see that too. Her life could be a movie! Both Kirsten Dunst and Cynthia Nixon are too old to play her now.
@relax2dream164 Жыл бұрын
There is no way I thought anything about the Duggers were cute or sweet!!! They alarmed me and I watched it like it was a train wreck. Jim Bob and Michelle just gave me the creeps and I felt sorry for the older girls. One thing that disturbed me was how Jen was smiling and laughing while telling her stories. How can she smile when she’s talking about being verbally abused until she’s crying on the floor every 4 days? There is a real disconnect there. I wish her luck in her journey.
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
I have this same knee jerk reaction when recounting my own stories of abuse. I can’t speak for Jen, but for me, it’s an unconscious response to not only the perfectionism I was taught and “happiness comes with righteousness” that ingrained into me as toxic positivity,but also, if I were to give the story the weight and heaviness it deserves, I would break into tears and be a total mess. Sometimes, disassociating is a way for me to disconnect just enough to tell my story.
@susanbland6790 Жыл бұрын
I agree. I never watched the show because I was really weirded out by it and felt like it was normalizing this really backward culture. I was not at all surprised when the truth of abuse came out.
@marthareis5873 10 ай бұрын
Given everything she tells us about how she was raised, her demeanor makes sense. And when recounting incredibly painful memories, disassociating is a common response to keep the intensity of the trauma at bay. What's absolutely incredible is how far she has come.
@BlackSeranna 9 ай бұрын
It’s a coping mechanism. People sometimes, oft times laugh when remembering some terrible times. But know that the laugh is there because she escaped. It would not have been there if there was something else terrible that happened. She’s free, and so she looks back and it’s probably surreal what she went through. That’s really all it amounts to. I do a similar thing.
@peskycritter79 Жыл бұрын
The part where Jen called herself a freak for being in college and not knowing who Seinfeld or Madonna were really got to me. My parents aren't American but I was raised in the US. I didn't watch much TV, listen to any music other than classical or old hits my parents knew (Beatles, the Carpenters, ABBA), or engage in American pop culture at all until I was at university. I'm 32 now and I've never felt like a freak. It makes me want to go back in time and give her younger self a hug.
@SouthernBell86 Жыл бұрын
Context is everything. If these types of subjects came up you probably felt comfortable to just say that your parents weren't American. As someone who grew up in IBLP it was a constant gnawing feeling of being "caught" at not knowing something I should know and people realizing that I'm too weird to spend time with. It was humiliating for me to explain to people that my family didn't have a TV, it led to a ton of questions I didn't have the answers to and made me feel like this big spotlight was being shone on something painful and ugly that I wasn't ready to share. So I did a Speedrun of American pop culture as soon as I could. Watched all of Friends, Seinfeld, Harry Potter etc etc so that I could understand the conversations happening around me.
@peskycritter79 Жыл бұрын
@@SouthernBell86 I'm sorry you had to experience that. You're right. Although I've never "fit in", I also have always had the privilege of being able to proclaim my differences without an ugly spotlight. I wish people weren't so quick to question or judge others for things they perceive as "strange".
@valeriemoran842 Жыл бұрын
Any ideology that casts blame on a child for an adult's sin is CLEARLY not a true Christian ideology.
@valeriemoran842 Жыл бұрын
I can't imagine anyone following advice from Michael Pearl. I watched a video of him. The guy is clearly a nut.
@jcc6789 Жыл бұрын
It took me into my 50’s to escape the persistent torture - the trauma never leaves. Although the ‘perfect IFB’ Christian girl, it was never good enough for my horrifically abusive mother - i had to completely cut off from family. My story is chilling to the bone, but i’m still here
@Qrtuop Жыл бұрын
Well done, you're incredible!
@thisbeem2714 Жыл бұрын
Someone will care.. Even if it is just a few of us.
@porshamills4259 9 ай бұрын
I'm glad for any of us who made it. I'm still sorting things out, not the major things, but "residue" , as they mentioned, the things you thought you were good on and still get triggered.
@BlackSeranna 9 ай бұрын
I’m sorry you went through it, and I’m glad you survived it. It’s tough out there.
@tiffprendergast 3 ай бұрын
@rln8901what?
@vanessalauren664 Жыл бұрын
Two beautiful women just trying to plant peace in the world! I'M SO PROUD OF YOU BOTH!❤
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Thank you Vanessa!!❤️
@vanessalauren664 Жыл бұрын
@@CultstoConsciousness no THANK YOU. My mom grew up in foster care through the morman church and was deeply traumatized from it. Your channel has brought her healing and a more understanding for my sis and I to be patient with her emotional struggles. Don't ever change beautiful girl. You are such a blessing!
@TotallyAwesomeU Жыл бұрын
So well said!!!❤❤
@northerngirl4666 Жыл бұрын
I can see from your profile pic that you are very young. Better than being proud, I hope as a young man that you grow up regarding woman as people, not sexual objects or possessions.
@vanessalauren664 Жыл бұрын
@@northerngirl4666 I'm not a young man I'm a 41 year old woman 😂 and that pic is my Irish Traveller grandmother.
@emlevy5792 Жыл бұрын
I thought Shiny Happy People was disturbing and I couldn’t finish it - the idea that it’s worse is just so so so sad and I hope they open all the investigations
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
I agree. It’s awful
@Dulcimertunes Жыл бұрын
I had to watch in halves
@iso-didact789 Жыл бұрын
@CultstoConsciousness Shiny Happy People LMFAO who the fuck comes up with a batshit crazy-ass name like that LMFAO!!!! It's like happyhappyism in earthbound LMFAO!!!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@SteveCurran-lt6pn 2 ай бұрын
All lies
@jlcollins7673 Жыл бұрын
To Train up a Child was on my mother's nightstand when we were growing up. Breaking my spirit was her only mission for SO LONG. My older and younger brothers were much better at pretending than i was/am. I find this docuseries and these stories so relatable. After years of therapy....i am.. almost...sort of...ok. lol
@stillWaters137 Жыл бұрын
I tried to read it recently & set it down around chapter 2. Didn't expect that. Talked about kicking dogs (even in a negative sense). Oof! Imagine how they thought of children.
@arpadczyliwampir Жыл бұрын
I am so sorry you went throught that! I hope you are doing better now.
@LordMondegrene Жыл бұрын
My lifelong dream is to be kinda sorta OK someday.
@timothykeagle2512 Жыл бұрын
Honestly my dad subscribed to everything talked about in this episode. Our childhood was horrible. I've been away from it for about 10 years now and I thought I was past it all....... nope, not ok here....
@troismoutonsetuntigre5988 Жыл бұрын
@@timothykeagle2512 I'm really sorry. I grew up with a different kind of abuse, but it takes so long to get over. Honestly I don't think you ever do, but I take pride in taking care of myself and my kids now, it took me a long time to learn to trust love and to give love freely but if this is the only thing I ever do in my life, that and raise my kids healthy and happy and without fear, that's enough. I hope you get to a good place.
@lindseyhendrix2405 Жыл бұрын
“I think it’s hard to get away by yourself but if you take those steps to try, the whole world comes out to help you.” Wheeeeew, I needed that!
@mylastduchess9998 Жыл бұрын
I am a Christian homeschool mom. Never planned too, got here because of learning disabilities that my local schools couldn't or wouldn't really help with. Thankfully, I am well educated and saw very quickly that A LOT of Christian homeschool programs out there are terrible, especially about STEM subjects, and some are downright harmful. I've done my best to share this with the local moms I know, but everyone needs to look into their kids text books, homeschool, or not. Be sure you know what they're being taught, and if you don't agree and can't change it, at least talk to your kids.
@mienafriggstad3360 Жыл бұрын
I completely agree with you. I'm a Christian in 🇨🇦. I have lots of friends who homeschool; some get a great education and go straight to college and sadly some who are 18 + couldn't pass a grade 10 exam. We christian schools and homeschooling; but the best place for our two ASD children is a public highschool.
@DimaRakesah Жыл бұрын
The problem is a lack of regulation on what homeschooling curriculum must include. Many religious fundamentalists have pushed to essential allow homeschooling to be whatever they want so that they can brainwash their children. It allows them to "homeschool" their daughters to just be housewives and teach subjects however they want. I am all for allowing homeschooling but it MUST be regulated to include basic educational needs, otherwise a lot of homeschool kids are at risk of barely being able to read or do basic math!
@er6730 Жыл бұрын
@@DimaRakesah I find that strange. I agree that there should be some oversight. I was only homeschooled in the younger grades, but still, the local school's principal came to visit every year or two to check out what we were doing. 🍁
@DimaRakesah Жыл бұрын
@@er6730 You would be shocked at how loose the curriculum is. I've seen countless people describe their homeschooling leaving them barely able to read because the criteria was basically non existant. Read Felicia Day's book. He parents were practically hippies but her home education was basically unsupervised reading and watching TV and playing video games and yet she 'graduated'.
@rdlewis3616 Жыл бұрын
I am a retired educator, and I remember in the 1970s when I saw some textbooks from Christian schools I could tell how simple and low level they were. People who use those textbooks are doing their children a disfavor.
@sandybowers5085 Жыл бұрын
I had totally forgotten that my legalistic church had pushed our congregation to go to IBLP seminars. Bill Gothard did these “chalk talks” during his deliveries as he spoke. I was completely sucked into his whole presence and teachings. Our family bought a l LOT of his materials to supplement our homeschooling curriculum. When we heard the rumors of his sexual misconduct we trashed them. However I know that those seminars gave my ex husband more ammo to feed his narcissism. It took me 18 years to get out. 18 years later, I still struggle with horrible anxiety issues and depression. My kids do as well. The hardest part is watching my grown children still struggling with what I did to them. All the while thinking if I just kept doing things right, God would save my family and we would live happily ever after. 💔
@foofieviolet Жыл бұрын
You did do things right though, even if it took 18 years. I'm glad you and your kids are out and safe. I'm sure because of you they will make even better decisions for themselves and their families going forward, even it is a struggle.
@stillWaters137 Жыл бұрын
Much love & blessing to you, Sandy. God has deep healing & overcoming for you & your family. The struggle is what matters, that you continue to love them & walk in truth now. Some of us go through the deep end to become stronger swimmers. You're uniquely equipped now & so are they. 💙
@sandybowers5085 Жыл бұрын
@@stillWaters137 thank you so much for your kindness and encouragement ❤️🥰
@LOwens-xf8yo Жыл бұрын
What an awful story! I’m so sorry you went through all that. I left the Catholic Church as a child, but kept seeking God for many decades. I was shocked recently when I finally realized that I had always equated a belief in God with being a good & moral person. Once I allowed myself to separate those two parts of myself, I no longer felt it necessary to find a Church to pray in. Maybe I’m projecting here, but it sounds like everything you did for yourself and your kids, you did because you wanted to be a good person and to do the Right Thing. Which is so hard to know, especially when we let religion dictate what is Right and Wrong, instead of trusting our hearts. Good luck to you and your kids. I hope it all works out well for all of you.
@bootsross Жыл бұрын
What helped me was forgiving myself. I talked to myself, closing my eyes, telling myself that I forgive her because she did the best she could with what she had. I practice it still but far less then when I started, because I just dont try to ve so hard of myself. Recovering is more like an exhale now. Hoping this will help you as you sooth yourself in your journey
@MsDarceeanne Жыл бұрын
The Handmaid's Tale comes up a lot as we learn more about the IBLP... I love that show, but my husband recently pointed out that there is a bit of irony with the show because, Elizabeth Moss, who plays the lead and also is a producer, actively practices and defends Scientology which has received its share of criticism as a harmful or disruptive religious practice.
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Wait, really? She’s a Scientologist? Yeah that’s definitely a strong irony there
@schuylerkaren4222 Жыл бұрын
Animals (cats for me) have been so, so healing to me also, and become family to me. I’m glad birds have been that for this guest. ❤️🩹
@porshamills4259 9 ай бұрын
I agree with you about animals. They are my family.
@Fyrsiel Жыл бұрын
"Is this a punishment I could give to puppies?" I think that's a question so many people should ask themselves whenever they're taught to fear God.
@kristinabathory8870 Жыл бұрын
This story has made me realize why I am struggling so much. I did not, by any means, go through what she went through. But I did grow up in fundamentalist Christianity, and I suffer so much from body/slut shaming. It has been so difficult for me. I still have not overcome it, and I am 52. My parents keep getting farther and farther into the "cult". Meanwhile I have 5 children and 4 of them are LGBTQ. I cannot even be around my mom without a sermon. It is so hard form me to be around her and my dad. So, there's another thing I feel guilty for. They are getting older and really need me, but I just cannot stand to be around the toxicity. I am feeling so lost. Thank you for this little bit of therapy.
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Hi Kristina, thank you for sharing. I can’t imagine how hard that must be. I’m happy this episode could give you a little bit of clarity ❤️
@aurorarheuben-bathe1947 9 ай бұрын
Remember, you actually don't owe your parents anything. They brought you into this world, you had no choice. It IS ok to go low contact or no contact. You are allowed to prioritize your mental well being and that of your children.
@qgkyncy 4 ай бұрын
Your parents may not be showing their concern very well, however your children are living in sin so your parents are being very loving by saying somthing.
@kristinabathory8870 4 ай бұрын
@@qgkyncy Leave me and my family alone.
@tweetscotchy1093 Жыл бұрын
Interesting how similar this is to Scientology. So misogynistic and torturous.
@DimaRakesah Жыл бұрын
Honestly all the cults really boil down to the same thing. Control. Strictly regulating gender expectations and highly controlling every aspect of people lives with fear and shame tends to end up looking pretty much the same just with cosmetic differences.
@user-bn7bk5mw4s 4 ай бұрын
I was listening to Leah Remini podcasts yesterday and thought same thing
@tiffprendergast 3 ай бұрын
@@DimaRakesahyup
@bettinadewoof3309 3 ай бұрын
MOST religions are based on misogynistic views.
@jaclynrichmond1049 Жыл бұрын
This cult being exposed is helping main stream christians see the cult thinking that is involved in the doctrine. ❤
@phantomvampyressshadowkiss4690 Жыл бұрын
I agree. I didn't grow up in this crap . I noticed the extreme fundamentals on social media platforms are dangerous to younger women who may want to get out it may keep victims stuck there those extreme ones like Transformed Wife and girl defined need taken off social media
@magdlynstrouble2036 Жыл бұрын
I hope so.
@Crimejunkymaymay Жыл бұрын
It's not right to label true Christians as cult. God's word is the Bible. Believing Jesus Christ was born and died for our sins and will be coming back is not cult. These cults twist the words of God into their cult.
@phantomvampyressshadowkiss4690 Жыл бұрын
@@Crimejunkymaymay fundamental Christians are a cult. It's a dictatorship of men to keep women and female children abused and oppressed.
@katinapac-baez5083 Жыл бұрын
The Bible itself is twisted and evil enough on its own. "god" endorses far too many atrocities to be considered anything less than a monster.
@MamaRoberts09 Жыл бұрын
Yes. We got into IBLP too when we saw these “perfect” people. Thankfully, we never got into it too deeply. Our oldest son actually got us out, showing us all the distortions of life in the Character books. Thank God for our wise and discerning son!
@sweetsunnydaygirl Жыл бұрын
Yes, thank God for your wise, discerning son! I grew up learning IBLP principles from one set of parents (one parent and stepparent, the other parent and stepparent were not involved). And one of the things I remember trying to live up to was the table of "The 49 Character Traits" 😢 I showed this online reference table to my friend a few years ago....and she thought it was UNBELIEVABLE!! Now as an adult, many years later, I can see how DISTORTED those "character" traits are....they're not traits at all!! Just simply choices about basic daily decisions in life! I'm still healing from all the programming years later. I wish I had someone back then who would have showed me how distorted and untrue these principles are. So glad the Lord used your son to get you out. One thing I've learned about God all these years later....is that He's not crazy, nor mean, nor abusive, nor shaming. He is not at all like they make Him out to be. Still processing this. He's not standing over me waiting for me to think a bad thought. 😮 But instead He has open arms of love and help for Me. I John 4:7-8. God bless you. Rachel in Nashville 😺
@pandorabryn Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for giving me the word to describe what I experienced as a young girl in Catholic school: scrupulosity! Religion really triggered my OCD. Since becoming an atheist, it hasn’t bothered me at all.
@ER-ge9hr Жыл бұрын
Yes, spot on. I was just talking to my husband about this a few days ago. Religion absolutely directly led to my OCD. I was so terrified of having any “evil thoughts” that it was wrecking me at the age of 6 or 7! I even told one of my classmates/friends she was going to hell because she said “oh my god” when I was in 2nd grade. I got sent to the principal and the man took pity on me, as I blubbered and cried that I was scared for my friend. I’m so glad you’re doing better with your own OCD now! Mine is still a struggle at times but soo much easier to tackle without the reigns of religion.
@charisma-hornum-fries Жыл бұрын
Same here but when I hear about it happening to other girls and women, I get pissed off on their behalfs.
@adelheid9369 Жыл бұрын
Atheism is its own religion. It just focuses on something else.
@pandorabryn Жыл бұрын
@@adelheid9369 Atheism is just not being convinced that a god or gods exist. How is that a religion? There’s no faith based beliefs, no rituals, no set of rules, no holy text, no holy men, etc. I can’t think of a single way in which atheism could qualify as religious. Both l and theists agree the world is real. They add onto it and say a god also exists. I reply, “I don’t believe you because I don’t see any evidence that that’s true.” And then I go on about my life in the real world, just like they do. But because they have this extra belief that I don’t have, then do extra things that I don’t do (like pray or go to church). In what way am I as religious as they are?
@ER-ge9hr Жыл бұрын
@@adelheid9369 Okay here’s a thought experiment. Let’s say we accept your preposterous statement, that atheism is itself a religion. How does it measure up to Christianity? (I’m using Christianity bc it is the most widely practiced in the US & it’s what I was raised in) What are some of the major issues/harms brought about by Christianity and how does atheism compare? -Christianity discourages rational, evidence-based thinking, as well as critical thought, saying you should instead rely on the (one) holy book and man’s interpretations of it. Atheism encourages critical thinking and scientific discovery, in collaboration with many many others to constantly making advances so our society can continue to evolve. -Christianity uses the holy book to justify horrific things, including but not limited to: murder, rape, incest, slavery, genocide, homophobia, transphobia, racism, child marriages, human trafficking, sexism, genital mutilation on infants, torture, censorship, demonization of other religions, dehumanization of anyone who is “other” than you, environmental catastrophe, holy wars, destruction of art, abuse of power/authority, colonization, human+animal sacrifice, tax evasion, defrauding its congregation, and terrorizing people with the threat of hell. Atheists denounce those things (at least most of us denounce all of them - but since we are not a monolith, there will undoubtedly be some atheists who have not yet deconstructed issues like white supremacy, colonialism, the patriarchy, etc). The atheists who may have some problematic views in certain areas are far more likely to take ownership of it rather than using a singular book (that requires heavy use of interpretation) as a scapegoat. -Christianity can directly cause or contribute to serious mental health issues, including OCD, major depression, anxiety, panic, schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, dissociative identity disorder, insomnia, and more. It also encourages people to IGNORE the troubling signs/symptoms of mental health concerns, which can have absolutely detrimental consequences (including death). Atheists again don’t have a united stance on exactly how mental health should be handled, but nearly all will encourage anyone suffering to seek a professional opinion whenever possible. We are more likely to point people towards legitimate support groups, therapists, doctors, psychiatrists, etc while the church will direct you to talk to either god or a church leader (both are likely to be unqualified). To me there’s a clear difference. Even IF atheism was a religion, it seems to be a lot less harmful than Christianity on those 3 points. I’m certain others can keep that list going with dozens more examples (I could keep going forever as studying religion was one of my special interests growing up, but it’s very late here so I have to stop for now). Still, your original statement was utterly lacking any common sense. You’re either lying about your position, or too ignorant to form a coherent opinion with any basis in reality. Which is it?
@rbee2150 Жыл бұрын
This comment is for the host of this show. You are an amazing and empathic listener! I love your genuine and authentic responses. Thank you as well for this episode, coming from a therapist who was once Amish, Mennonite, and IBLP if you can imagine.😂
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Oh wow thank you so much!!! 🥰 that means a lot ❤️
@kellymommsen-ss2id Жыл бұрын
Wait... what... I'm from Africa and I have a drum kit... does that make me double satanic? Better hide my Disney collection while I'm at it 😂
@sarahleony Жыл бұрын
It’s hard to grasp the sheer strength and willpower it must take to break lose from the only world you’ve know, ideologies you’ve been force-fed and people you love but who are damaging. Also, imagine all the bright intelligent women who never get the opportunity to shine because they are never able to break free. Ugh
@beyondallmeasure Жыл бұрын
As someone who grew up in this cult, I identified with so much of what was said. Thank you so much Jen for sharing your story with us! I completely agree that the docuseries was the mild version of what was really happening.
@JanineCoomerDavidson Жыл бұрын
What breaks my heart with each interview is hearing the trauma in all your voices. Thank you for this amazing channel. Sending you all so much love! ❤❤❤
@NancyCronk Жыл бұрын
IBLP got around the cult label by calling themselves a "ministry".
@realhealthrealwealth Жыл бұрын
"Ministery" is so they are 501 c3 and are tax-free. It's called "fee"DUMB and keeping the populations enslaved to those who deem themselves superior hierarchy authority elites psychos for generations. OBEY!! The likes of Romans 13 is why ALL book gods exist. OBEY!! I lived, breathed, swallowed,... the fake phony plastic fear mongering judgmental ssssstrrreeesss inducing traumatizing BS for over 25+ years. That was Hell.
@WillieWeed Жыл бұрын
About all cult's do this. Even the ones that have no prayer or God like the cult of scientology many ex-members still call them a church even though they know better and it's the best way to reveal them as a cult is to stop calling them a church. But their defense is they don't want to discourage members from leaving. And they think if they don't call them a church members will be insulted. It's BS, but it takes decades after leaving before these ex-members come to the full reality and are able to admit they are no church. And calling them that is lengthening the time before the cult is finally brought down.
@brandy4530 Жыл бұрын
Of course, nobody calls themselves a cult. They got around by infiltrating mainstream evangelical churches to promote their teachings. Mainstream evangelicals were promoting their teachings and their books in their churches. I sat next to people in my southern baptist church who were reading To Train Up a Child, and Created to be His Helpmeet. We still read all about I Kissed Dating Goodbye, courtship and all that stuff. Most people didn’t understand what they were reading and thought it was cute and folksy, so it was rarely as enforced as the Duggars. Plus, how could it be bad, look at all the Bible verses! This caused, what would have otherwise been normal families, to adopt more and more extreme thinking. It isn’t even just the IBLP that is doing this. Vision Forum was another, now defunct, movement. This led a lot of Christian authors to write their own extreme books on child rearing and the subjugation of women. There was The Strong Willed Child by James Dobson and Love and Respect by Emerson Eggrichs that also led to a lot of child abuse and domestic violence. My husband and I were given TWO copies of Love and Respect by our southern baptist church when we got married 18 years ago. Even my husband, who was homeschooled, went to a southern baptist mega church, and he remembers all the the material in this documentary from his homeschooling days. The mainstream church has been infected with these ideologies and they don’t even recognize them.
@debbieanderson6740 Жыл бұрын
I spent part of my life in the conservative Baptist world and the other in Assembly of God. I can see the finger prints of fundamentalism in all of it. The purity culture is one. Saving your self for that one man that God has planned for me. Shaming woman for anything sexual such as feelings. Oh and there is how woman dress. Making them responsible on how men boys respond to them visually \ sexually. Instead of teaching boys Self Control. I remember the duggar book being talked about in church. Like it was a good thing. Then my thinking was, "my pastor knows what is best. He calls himself a servant leader". So much control. Then the pastor says...I have free will. Hmm...interesting.
@lauriesyme207 Жыл бұрын
I grew up in a similar family, and it was abusive, bad!
@onomonopoeia 9 ай бұрын
Just as a reminder, Margaret Atwood only wrote the Handmaid's Tale based on the historically accurate various treatments of women across the globe. It is based on true stories. Thank you all for your work to shed light on this.❤ Edited to add: You beautiful strong women on this channel are a bright light and a great resource for so many others struggling through the same.
@Sadie_Seattle Жыл бұрын
I really appreciate the authenticity in this interview. I'm an ex-JW and just now starting to realize the spin cycle of disillusionment and this video triggered some ugly crying. Despite the difference in experiences there are similarities in the degradation and feelings towards yourself and especially being the outsider and being rocked by the realization that you're a magnet for narcissistic abusers... ugh. a lot to process and i'm so grateful for these beautiful stories of such incredibly strong women. It makes me realize that what we've been through is not normal and that these cults are meant to break your spirit. The more i see women who share their stories the more it makes me realize that I dont need to hold shame about my past, thank you ❤
@user-jv4zr2pp8d 11 ай бұрын
Me too...glad you made it my luv..x
@khanstancehaight312 Жыл бұрын
This breaks my heart. I was Pentecostal for a several years in my teens and have some of the same issues. When she talks about the dreams and such fear of not being good enough, it was so spot on.
@gottabme Жыл бұрын
Never good enough...no matter how good you are, or how well you do. If bad things happen to you, it's b/c of "your sinfulness"...
@rigorride Жыл бұрын
There are few things in this life that bring me joy, but when someone finds their way out of a toxic religious indoctrination cult, that is pure joy to me! 🤗❤️🍹👏🍾
@mysteriousToad Жыл бұрын
I thought being tired to a tree and being left outside was only something my mom did…
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Oh no I’m so sorry! 😢
@SteveCurran-lt6pn 2 ай бұрын
Lies
@lauragoodman7296 Жыл бұрын
I lived on the edge of this. I had family that homeschooled and so many of these things got taught to me, like the modesty and purity. Jen - you have turned out as an amazing person and made much out of what you went through ❤ you're incredible
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing!!
@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Жыл бұрын
yeah you should definitely be almost naked. That's best for men I mean you.
@mfp4523 Жыл бұрын
Ah I’m so glad Jen got a platform to tell her story. IBLP having so many eyes on them is way overdue!
@stillmagic714 Жыл бұрын
Watching the documentary was so weird for me because the totally not a cult that I grew up in was on the one hand was like, oh yeah, were not like THOSE people but at the same time dating was bad, courting was good, if you kiss someone and end up not marrying them, you've committed adultery because that's someone else's husband (note, husband, not spouse, it was always the girl's responsibility somehow). Oh and the Joshua Generation? I was in on the ground floor of that developing, we were supposed to be the "watchmen on the walls" and the reason the bible says God will wipe away all our tears is because we're going to feel so terrible because the people around us are going to go to hell and it's our fault. ANYWAY, I was glad I had a therapy appointment that week. But honestly I've watched it a couple of times because it brought back so much stuff that has helped me put a name to the shifty mess of weirdness that is my neurodivergent brain's memory of my childhood church.
@Marcustheseer Жыл бұрын
We have way more cult behaviour in out society then People realize hek goverment itself in most places is a cult
@lindseyhendrix2405 Жыл бұрын
They have another video in which Ana and the guy from Mormon stories go into their top 10 documentaries about cults, and they essentially say exactly that! That someone watching a documentary on a cult typically examines it as wow, what weirdos… but then it gets them thinking, especially if they find themselves in similar situations! I’d definitely give it a watch:) I’ll be back with a link if I get the time. Do you mind me asking if this was in Texas?
@PleasantSludge Жыл бұрын
I grew up homeschooled and IBLP-adjacent. I'm so glad people are FINALLY starting to learn about IBLP, the HSLDA, and the Joshua Generation. Awareness is the first step! ETA: I highly recommend the Kitchen Table Cult podcast for more info on the HSLDA and the Joshua Generation. Eve Ettinger, one of the hosts of the podcast, was featured in the Shiny Happy People doc.
@emmadasilva1794 Жыл бұрын
What's wrong with the HSLDA? Not trying to start an argument or anything, just genuinely curious as someone who grew up homeschooled (with a very good experience, not the culty kind) and always heard good things about them since they fought for the legal ability to homeschool. Is it cuz they also defend lax standards like religious exemptions?
@suechristy363 Жыл бұрын
HSLDA is not involved with the IBLP
@PleasantSludge Жыл бұрын
@@emmadasilva1794 That's exactly why, they fight for looser regulations (well, no regulations to be more accurate) on homeschooling that put children in a position to be more vulnerable to abuse.
@PleasantSludge Жыл бұрын
@@suechristy363 No, but they are adjacent and directly related to the Joshua Generation and the Patrick Henry College.
@Caderic Жыл бұрын
What the hell is the Joshua Generation?
@LeeAnnahsCreations 7 ай бұрын
I would like to point out that there are healthier version of "Courtship" than what is presented here. Saying this as a person who was never apart of these organizations.... and was given full control and choice in all aspects of my courtship.
@Ammiller5 Жыл бұрын
I can barely explain how happy I am that your mom also left the cult. So often when people leave, they never get to have a relationship with their family again, I'm so glad that's not the case for you. I also left the church, just not as extreme of a branch, so i understand the freedom of leaving
@vkestrel3519 Жыл бұрын
What a great lady. Heartbreaking to realise her upbringing as a child in the IBLP set her up to be abused. She had no sense of self and no skills and really had to fight and suffer to get where she is now. Her message to at least try, even if you need to take that ‘first step’ several times over, is really inspirational 👏
@housebeach Жыл бұрын
IBLP teaching was a sinister part of that, but, it appears to me, so was her rejection of it. Giving her body to a man who had made no exclusive commitment to is seems to me a huge part of setting herself up to be abused.
@ReeceInTheRain Жыл бұрын
I can’t watch the handmaids tale. I read the book in 1987 and was terrified because I understood the fragility of our democracy and the ability of evil to sneak into society by praying on the fears, prejudices, and desperation of people seeking solutions to life’s struggles. I spent 5 years consuming hours of all sides of political news fearing for the country on a daily bases. After January 6 I kept watching until I was pretty sure we weren’t going to implode and then had to go cold turkey to save my emotional health. I take a line from an old Elvis song for my wish for people “Stop, look, and listen baby that’s my philosophy”. 😊 Keep your eyes and heart open. Thank you all for sharing your stories!❤
@sunflower7045 Жыл бұрын
I was personally shredded for years by the Lust Trap view of women, in my post college church group. I tried talking to some of the male leaders and I watched it fall on deaf ears. I felt hopeless and left the group and church feeling like trash. Enter the secular world and I found my husband, who treasures me and treats me like the best friend and equal partner that I am. Wishing you all the best. 💖🌻
@abigailjackson2843 Ай бұрын
Same!!! I was brainwashed to want to be the Perfect Pastor's Wife, went through an existential crisis when I realized how screwed up all the church teachings were, "fell off the deep end" (ie, started wearing pants and talked to boys and started a business), and met my husband who is very worldly by my family's standards but treats me with the utmost kindness and respect. They've tried to convince me that I can still leave him because we haven't had a church wedding ceremony (their main gripe is that we're "not really married" and therefore "living in sin") but absolutely nothing will convince me to leave him. He is hands down the best thing to happen in my life so far and I do not regret leaving them to be with him AT ALL.
@ab6525 Жыл бұрын
I grew up IBLP-adjacent in the independent Baptist circle. It's so weird getting out and realizing how messed up it all was.
@abigailjackson2843 Ай бұрын
Soooo many of the same ideologies in Independent Baptists!!!
@kannakanina6552 Жыл бұрын
33:57 “I took it all and internalized it hugely because I thought it would save us.” This hit me so hard. I was the same way in my fundamentalist family… I thought being a shiny happy godly person would save my family. Though I was the youngest child, the bottom of the power structure, I felt like if I did my part and really focused on being penitent and good, maybe things would get better, but the opposite happened… It caused my mental health to deteriorate because I was taking the burdens of the family upon myself even though I was a child. Though I was not IBLP, I wonder how many young women, when taught that they are the cause of so many problems and must act and look perfect and pure despite feeling like ‘filth,’ end up getting caught in a spiral of perfectionism, depression, and eating disorders. It breaks my heart. Young women deserve better than this. I’m so glad that this video exists. Thank you for your vulnerability!
@lalalalalalala6535 Жыл бұрын
❤️ thank you
@abigailjackson2843 Ай бұрын
Wow, I've been feeling very guilty watching these IBLP videos because I genuinely embraced the Botkin Sisters and wanted to do the right thing ALWAYS and they definitely preyed on that. Thankfully we as a family weren't suckered into IBLP proper, but there were so many of the same ideologies in the Independent Baptist church I went to growing up. I love that you said that everyone is doing the best they can for where they're at. I definitely was trying to be the peacemaker and keep the balance between all the other members of my family because I wanted to help - I don't think the desire to help people is bad, but the way I was going about it wasn't the greatest, looking back on it now. However, I am who I am now because of who I was then, and I like who I am now. So there's that.
@adriannemason5451 Жыл бұрын
I was 7 when my father tried to touch me sexually, i was abseloutely doing nothing to cause it of course but it set me up for being extremely unsexual and messed up, i didnt even know i had a vagina. I got my period at 13 and wondered where the blood was coming from 😔
@trsumbry Жыл бұрын
I wish there was a healthy middle ground for protecting young people. Too much restriction makes kids feel shameful, but give clueless teens too much opportunity, and they make you grandmother before you're 40.
@foofieviolet Жыл бұрын
I'm curious to know what you think this middle ground would be?
@wingedinfinity6715 Жыл бұрын
@@foofieviolet She was asking that., so apparently she won't know.
@karinland8533 Жыл бұрын
The key is education. Very good sex ed and easy access contraception.
@qgkyncy 4 ай бұрын
Well we need to teach our young men and women to be modest and respectful. Parents need to be doing sex Ed, that should be no sex until marriage. Men dress in our culture is not acceptable and female dress in our culture is horribly sexual that needs to change but it's byproduct of a bigger issue of a little view of marriage and sex.
@blakewhite3131 4 ай бұрын
@@qgkyncy no sex until marriage is purity culture and weird. Like why. Why would that matter. I mean clearly you are confused or lost, but I'll bite
@princessagatha9991 Жыл бұрын
I haven’t watched the episode yet, but I know we’re in for an enlightening interview. I’ve been watching Parrot Kindergarten for a few months without having a clue what else she’s been through. She’s such a compassionate, self-aware, kind person with a really great perspective on life. Can’t wait to watch!
@simona_ab Жыл бұрын
Can you please link the video, if you don't mind?
@princessagatha9991 Жыл бұрын
I’m not disappointed! Such a great interview. I absolutely love that they hire women they know need to start building job experience and income before the women they know they need it. So glad you’ve made your way towards happiness and fulfillment. You are a gift to the outside world and we needed you here!
@Katie2986 Жыл бұрын
My nephews were homeschooled according to IBLP, much to my and my parents horror. No one in our family had been Fundamentalist before. They weren’t allowed to watch Sesame Street! 😭 We did our best to counter it (since they were homeschooled they were able to visit a lot) without losing access to the kids. The kids know now how nuts it was, but they are an absolute mess. It’s heartbreaking.
@gaiagreen2690 Жыл бұрын
What happened to their parents? Do their children still follow the rules they were raised in? Did some leave and if yes, do they still have contact with their parents?
@kirbysthiccthighs Жыл бұрын
thank you for trying so hard to save them/not giving up on them.
@isabel.bolivia Жыл бұрын
Are they out now?
@slconley Жыл бұрын
Homeschooling opens the door to abuse
@Katie2986 Жыл бұрын
@@gaiagreen2690 Their Dad died from cancer recently. They left the faith but not their parents. The 3 oldest have been in tons of trouble with drugs, fighting, etc,been to jail. One got married at 19, divorced at 21. It’s all incredibly sad.
@2022Coopersmom Жыл бұрын
Really reminds me of the movie Women Talking. The power of guilt, shame, being isolated in a closed community, ruled by the iron fisted patriarchy, it created the perfect environment for abuse to flourish. The men claim God directs them. The girls have no chance. That is, until those women started talking.
@orangew3988 Жыл бұрын
I think that a lot of these cults have thought crimes and they are so so damaging to teenagers who's brains are developing. Like, when she talked about having a crush being a punishable offence.
@Melisamonet Жыл бұрын
Lol nothing above the knee (skirts) I was born into a united Pentecostal church. I didn’t wear jeans, shorts , earrings , makeup , cut my hair. I finally woke up in 2006 being 43 now and still dealing with the shame the guilt of it all. There was so many rules and regulations and tradition’s. Her story sounds so familiar. I’m glad I found you guys
@sherrybowie8843 Жыл бұрын
I completely understand the concept of having that feeling that you're sinning even when you're not in that Christian mindset anymore. I struggle with this a lot but try to just push through each time. It's hard to shake once it's taken root in every fiber of your being. This has been my favorite interview yet because it's similar to my upbringing. Thanks so much!
@stillWaters137 Жыл бұрын
Shame is such a powerful altar to tear down...evil.
@wingedinfinity6715 Жыл бұрын
@@stillWaters137 So a convicted pedophile should never feel shame ? Or a bank robber ?
@stillWaters137 Жыл бұрын
@@wingedinfinity6715 No one should feel shame after true repentance. In context of the cult, which is what we're talking about here, that spiritual entity of shame is false...feeling bad for things that aren't sin or weren't actually done or were doctrinally misinterpreted by a charlatan masquerading as a shepherd. It's a control mechanism based in fear. Another strong negative entity in the cult is the religious spirit. It's what Jesus was calling out in the pharisees as they walked around, noses up, judging everyone even as they lacked basic Christian love, humility & grace for their fellow man. In Christ, there's no condemnation, so we're free of that false shame & are able to walk in true authority over it. It makes the cult uncomfortable to have all of the tables kicked over.
@wingedinfinity6715 Жыл бұрын
@@stillWaters137 Yes I agree with all you say regarding a cult. But we also need to understand that conviction of the heart is necessary to recognize sin. God does not tolerate sin itself. None of us on earth have the capacity to not sin 100% of the time, so even saved and born again people need conviction periodically, although we should not be sinning every day. Life isn't always comfortable, yet many, many Americans feel that it should be. This is why you see almost ZERO people standing up to evil. Even pastors and parents won't stand up to it over children. THIS, WE SHOULD BE HIGHLY ASHAMED OF.
@stillWaters137 Жыл бұрын
@@wingedinfinity6715 Yup, the church hasn't stood in the gap for children, overall. But I'd argue that many people who call themselves Christ's & pat themselves on the back for sitting in pews routinely didn't have the Holy Spirit to convict them of wrongdoing. Kind of shocking (at first) watching 'respected' people cave in cowardice. But God's creative. He once called grubby fishermen & is raising up the homeless, ex-cons & children to replace the false church. Interesting. Maybe he'll convert a few pedos too. You never know.
@CieraMychele Жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but she was so depressed bc of her lame husband that she went to law school to prove him wrong?? Amazing, iconic, inspirational. When I was depressed bc of my life I stayed in bed for a couple of years being sad lmao
@gottabme Жыл бұрын
I stayed drunk for 5 years.
@PAB1068 Жыл бұрын
I went out and watched the documentary and then came back to your video. My heart breaks for all who were in this occult and any other occults. What a mind twist to recover from. I went to a Christian church for 20 years and I left in 2019 and have no intentions of going back to church. I still love the Lord, but have no time for how people twist and distort His Word. Thank you, as always, for shedding light on these situations.
@charisma-hornum-fries Жыл бұрын
English is my second language so I hope it's okay to ask if it's an English thing to write "His Word" with the capital letters? Is it a grammar thing?
@PAB1068 Жыл бұрын
@@charisma-hornum-fries its more for respect. Like when you capitalize the first letter of someone's name, He or His or Him, referring to God/Jesus, is the same as capitalizing His name. Capitalizing Word is in reverence to the fact that they are words of His that were written. I hope that makes sense. 😊
@adorabell4253 Жыл бұрын
As a note: it’s cult, not occult.
@PAB1068 Жыл бұрын
@@adorabell4253 thank you for the correction.
@tiffprendergast 3 ай бұрын
@@adorabell4253yup
@laine80 Жыл бұрын
I’m crying happy tears for her. Leaving my abusive ex husband was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, but what a strong person she is to leave abusive situations twice!! ♥️
@porshamills4259 9 ай бұрын
Agreed....I left an abusive husband too.
@wrsyslate3628 Жыл бұрын
As a trans man, who escaped the radical south, fundamentalists. Before and during my transition I was abused, I ended up packing all my stuff into my car and I now live in the walmart parking lot up north in a blue state safe for me as a trans man. Hearing her story and the similarities is insane and gives me hope there’s light at the end of this dark tunnel….
@dewilew2137 Жыл бұрын
A Walmart parking lot is not a safe place for anyone to live, especially a female, regardless of what state you’re in. Please protect yourself.
@jennaxoxox4821 Жыл бұрын
There is hope and love for you.
@katiempojer Жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing this, it is so sad how many parents went into IBLP with good intentions, wanting what was best for their kids ended up in the disaster cult. Bill Gothard, IBLP and ATI should be classified as a domestic terrorist org.
@MustAvoidScurvy Жыл бұрын
Can we get another episode with Jen? She is such an amazing woman!! Thank you for all you do, Shelise ❤ And yes, we never have to thank our abusers for what we do or how we are now, we have to thank ourselves for being brave and leaving abusive situations. The mentality of having to thank the people who hurt us, "for making us grow" or whatever, is awful and it should disappear.
@goatmealcookies7421 Жыл бұрын
I never cease to be amazed by the strength these ladies and occasionally gentlemen demonstrate.
@SuzeeD4358 Жыл бұрын
Shelise! How do you find these people?! Jen is amazing! Oh my gosh, all she went through and still educated herself and moved forward with an inspiring life! I'm blown away!
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
Right?! Some sent me a post of hers telling her story on IG ❤️❤️❤️
@starlingswallow Жыл бұрын
I'm constantly amazed how dealing with childhood neglect, an angry father, being taught learned helplessness and then marrying a narcissist "Christian" because I was prepped by my familial experience would be so similar to others stories like this one of coming out of a Cult. Purity Culture messed me up. Evangelical churches messed me up. At 38 I escaped my abuser, went against my parents wishes and met my now husband who is so incredibly healthy and wonderful~ I think he makes my family nervous...😂 I was a quiet, always smiling, never angry, always saying yes, always apologizing, always thinking everyone around me was my authority and I couldn't trust my heart or my feelings.... to a woman with her own mind, her own dreams, boundaries and a voice! (Im still getting the hang of speaking up for myself and sitting in the uncomfortable-ness of it)😊 Thank you for this interview! These stories are imperative~ for the guests healing and for all of us listening and how we relate ❤ Again, thank you!!!
@starlingswallow Жыл бұрын
I also friended an atheist man and his wife before I got the courage to leave my abuser. He really pulled back the curtain for me! He is now one of my best friends!!
@maryannehenderson6023 Жыл бұрын
It's amazing to me how many of the folks telling their stories, especially the most painful, tragic parts, do so with huge smiles and only a few tears. They aren't minimizing the core problems or looking for sympathy. Those smiles, I think, come from Release& Relief. And the Hope& belief that in speaking up that others will find the ' message in the bottle '. Know they are not alone and relief& smiles can be their's too. I'm at one-time of those difficult cross roads. So, many thanks for tossing out the ' life perservers '!!
@YK-mn2nd Жыл бұрын
Yup purity culture is a cover for predators. I will never teach my children this. They can wear what they want. People’s styles evolve I grew up christian but loved tight low cut and short clothing in adolescence and it was great (my mom didn’t like it but I fought her on it) that style actually fits teenagers the best 😂. Now I like looser covered clothes because I’m older and like the classy look. Sometimes I still wear immodest clothing but not like when I was younger. Its been fun to explore fashion and grow into different phases!
@sarahhilsher2772 Жыл бұрын
I unfortunately seen the abuse that comes from the Ibpl my mom's cousin is in prison for 20 years due to the abuse they gave to their children while in this cult and the making them stay out side is very true at the time of my mom's cousin arrest the oldest daughter age 13 at the time was living in the back yard it was a extreme case of abuse they moved away from the family to another state and we had not seen them in years they were known as the strange family members when I was growing up it's very sad what we learn happened in there home they had all the books from the Pearl's and Gothard as well as went to all the seminars my older cousins who were adults when their parents were arrested went to the school place in Oklahoma city its crazy to finally here this all be coming public because our family learn the hard way about them years ago
@notheothersarah Жыл бұрын
100% heard a sermon bemoaning the lack of stoning as the right way to deter people from being rebellious. Something along the lines of "there would be a lot less backtalk these days if we went back to stoning"
@nobodysbaby5048 Жыл бұрын
Strange, many religious extremists responsible for atrocities we fight against now believe in stoning, as well. Might be good to examine those values.
@savantianprince Жыл бұрын
This proves to me that all religions are cults.
@user-jv4zr2pp8d 11 ай бұрын
Maybe we should start with the leaders themselves...evil equals religion...its the opposite of live
@user-bn7bk5mw4s 4 ай бұрын
Was that John Hagee?
@darladellana4961 Жыл бұрын
Around minute 32, she uses the term "emotional violence". I've never heard that particular term used before. Usually people say "emotional abuse". But I really think saying "emotional violence" is more descriptive so I think I will add the phrase to my vocabulary.
@marthareis5873 10 ай бұрын
Agreed. I remember having a similar reaction to reading the phrase "emotional homicide." It was used very powerfully in a book describing "cognitive abuse" (when an abuser uses mental games and manipulation to distort and control another's reality). I think we need more language, still, to describe and criminalize this kind of abuse.
@AtypicalPaul Жыл бұрын
Sounds like a lot of the same ideas I was taught growing up. My dad was a preacher in a very strict Christian denomination. He took things even further and it was a very fear based religious way of life.
@LOwens-xf8yo Жыл бұрын
Wonderful interview! The point about the Handmaid’s Tale being triggering is so true for me as well. The book was brilliant, but I haven’t been able to bring myself to watch the show. Even seeing the ads scare me because it feels too real. The oppression of women through Abrahamic religions has been and continues to be one of the most destructive forces on earth. The women in the Old Testament are treated like cattle, and fundamentalists can’t get enough of it!
@CultstoConsciousness Жыл бұрын
THIS! Exactly this!!
@audreyandremington5265 11 ай бұрын
I just wanted to say- women have been treated like shit all over the world tbh. Think about the foot binding in China, or how women were treated in Japan. They actually believed in a hell just for women where you are tortured in a pool of menstrual blood for the horrible sin of having a female body and becoming impure every month.
@jcooper1732 Жыл бұрын
I'm not a religious person but fascinated by religious mythologies. So when she spoke about this cult telling her she's a worm and a vile thing it struck a chord or memory. The story goes that God held mortals in such high esteem, granted them free will to do as they like, and were more precious than angels that Lucifer started a war out of jealousy. That there can be religions that believe in the story of the fall of an angel, yet instead of believing that mortals are held in high regard by their creator, religious leaders reverse the message that humans are vile in God's eyes. They say even the devil can quote the Bible. Maybe these controlling hell and damnation religions are the true churches of satan making large masses of people believe that they are less worthy than the divine and the true slaves (sorry servants) to God as a prank on humanity?
@JDSiga Жыл бұрын
Humans are not vile in God's eye. We are infected with SIN. Sin is the thing that is vile. God loves us so much that He sent Jesus, who is also God to die for us to cover the sin. Blood is what covers the sin. Once someone is born again, they never have to worry about hell. We strive to live a good life but GOD knwos we can't He's alreay forgiven us present past and future sin is covered by the blood. God loves us so very much. Cults make is so difficult. Calling on Jesus to forgive our sin is how one is born again.
@hopejohnson6347 Жыл бұрын
...while ironically the church of Satan promotes self esteem and individuality
@AshJae Жыл бұрын
It’s not a prank, it’s deception. Satan is the God of this world, the Lord Jesus Christ is higher and his thoughts are of love and compassion but there is an enemy. One of sin in our flesh and also satan who is the god if this world and those who follow after him. But we are either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ. There’s no in between. God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all. He will have his righteous vengeance against the workers of darkness
@ingehanson Жыл бұрын
@@JDSiga That in itself is a bit cultish. humans are not born in" sin" and Jesus did not die for "our sins". If Jesus would have died for our sins no one would be down here on earth because we would all be sinless. And yes we are born again over and over until we have learned and conquered the duality of "good and evil" and moved above it. Jesus did believe in reincarnation before the they put the bible together when they took that out, wanting more control over the people. Simply giving you life over to Jesus does not absolve anyone from karma "what you sow you reap" and you have to work it out yourself in life after life. Jesus showed a way by his teachings but most totally misread the whole thing.
@cecilyerker Жыл бұрын
Bingo, nail on the fucking head! Ding ding ding 🛎️
@msmaryrehbein Жыл бұрын
Never related abusive relationships and narcissistic partners with growing up in a cult but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing your story. I could have inserted my name in so many of your stories. Hugs.
@Andrew1930 Жыл бұрын
Shalice thank you so much for this episode! I appreciate all of your content but this episode particularly struck home for me. I grew up in groups that were adjacent to ILBP. Even though I escaped the cult 15 years it wasn't until 2020 when all the pillars of stability in my life seemingly got knocked out at once that I was forced to pick up the pieces and reasses. I can now see that even though I escaped the physical environment. The unprocessed trama mentally had continued to play out across my adult life. Thanks for your work and lots of love from a thankful viewer.
@kirsikka1029 Жыл бұрын
Now everything I hear about horrific child abuse, I will think of this being the reason. How many times have you heard of chaining, starving & excessive physical punishment ? Tons of time. How many blanket train their babies? 😢
@user-sp6zo6oj9m 3 ай бұрын
Jodi Hildebrand and Ruby franke
@barryboos Жыл бұрын
Oh my God! Jen, I follow your Facebook religiously. I had absolutely no idea. Wow, what a crossover from two completely different spheres of interest. Thank you! I hope Ellie and the crew are doing amazing.
@BlueEyes7824 Жыл бұрын
Shelise, I have only recently discovered your channel, and I am SO impressed! This topic can be so sensationalized, but the interactions with your guests. and the compassionate way you help them tell their story, is so uplifting. Time and again, you say something was "beautiful" about their journey, and my surprised reaction would be "Yeah... it is!" Your guests are brave and inspiring, and you are amazing for creating this environment where they can share their truth with us. Thank you! PS LOVE the shows with your mom :)
@BlessYourHeart254 Жыл бұрын
One more comment and I’ll stop: isn’t calling someone property slavery? These people should be prosecuted for human trafficking.
@paulan7218 Жыл бұрын
no, they are just twisting a Bible verse. The Bible says that your body is not your own. It belongs to your spouse IBLP leaves out the part where the men belong to the women not just the women belong to the men
@foofieviolet Жыл бұрын
Unless they can prove certain things, like exchange of goods for a person, you can't really prove its "slavery" under the law. It's abuse and psychologically dehumanizing for sure though
@JDSiga Жыл бұрын
I'm not thinking some of the things she is saying is true.
@wingedinfinity6715 Жыл бұрын
@@foofieviolet Chores around the house could be shown as an exchange. It doesn't have to be actual money. The fact that the term "property" is being applied and then receiving services without payment could be argued as slavery. The difficult part would be proving they could not escape / being held against their will. Pimps are really good at hiding this.
@SatansRoerhat Жыл бұрын
On average, a domestic violence survivor has to leave 8 times before being successful ❤❤❤ Somehow I'm always surprised I don't get triggered by your interviews, but you just get it!! I think it's your empathy, knowing your guests aren't "other". It feels like true understanding 💕🦄
@miaomiaochan Жыл бұрын
As someone who watches a lot of true crime content on this platform, it's infuriating to see all the victim-blaming that inevitably rears its head in the comments when it comes to domestic violence survivors and murder victims, even from other survivors. How difficult can it be to acknowledge that it can be extremely difficult, not to mention dangerous, for a victim to escape?
@AtypicalPaul Жыл бұрын
Deprograming is so hard! When you have been so brainwashed with fear and being constantly watched and judged it creates such anxiety. Even without believing that stuff anymore I have so much anxiety. Panic attacks suck.
@BlackSeranna 9 ай бұрын
It lasts your whole life. I mean, maybe others can break those shackles but the slam of a door and other sounds still trigger me, and this is 45 years later. I truly believe the brain makes you remember bad things because it wants to protect you by asking you to run away from the danger (or hide). I have this weird mix where I will get very still while I try to decide what to do. I’d much rather deal with wild animals than with people nowadays. Animals make more sense.
@rebeccasirstad4919 Жыл бұрын
I wish every person in a religious entity could watch this. This lady is so strong and meant for greatness. Her words are captivating. I’ve struggled with the concept of good and bad. Or rather evil and heavenly. Are people just good because they have to be, or are told to be? It makes getting to know people scary because you can’t see past the curtains on the windows into their room to see how light/safe it is. But then there are those rooms that you can see how bright the light is coming from within. That is Jen. A good reminder that there are rooms with light. There are good people.
@a-k2977 Жыл бұрын
I’ve been following her for her training with birds and I had no idea. So interesting to her about her past experiences. Thank you!
@sarahortega5871 7 ай бұрын
One funny thing when I was in it, my dad taught the firefighting classes at ALERT and I went with him one time. Up there for three weeks with my dad and I had to work in the sewing room. Took a break and went out side and saw one of the guys that had spent some time living with my family for firefighter training. One of the ladies looked out the window and told me I needed to come in. When I came in she told me I wasn’t allowed to talk to any guys at all.. at the end of the day I told my dad. lol my dad marched up the the people in charge and told them that no one is to tell his daughter who she is or isn’t allowed to talk to.
@LeedleleedleDae Жыл бұрын
I grew up southern baptist and when the duggars made their big splash on tlc they became a staple in my grandmothers reality tv watching. I was always grateful we didn’t do Christianity as hard as them but even as a teen I noticed the similarities between them and our family/ church friends. Everyone always cited the parentification of the Duggar children as why I had it easy with my 2 little brothers 🫠 I really related to the Brown children as well, especially Madi and Mykelti. Like we all talk about TLC giving space on their channel for abusive dynamics and how it’s bad, but even bad things can have silver linings those kids living like that off tv can see they’re not alone and nothing is wrong with them they didn’t do anything to deserve to be miserable in what’s supposed to be their safest space.
@fastsetinthewest Жыл бұрын
Voyeurism is a hard to stop.
@LeedleleedleDae Жыл бұрын
@@fastsetinthewest not trying to be obtuse, but what?
@tiffprendergast 3 ай бұрын
Yup
@katwitanruna Жыл бұрын
I had not heard of blanket training like that. For my family blanket training means putting down a baby on a blanket with toys and letting them explore but picking them up and putting them back on the blanket until they can crawl.
@SaraHinata Жыл бұрын
Oh no, it's more horrifying than that unfortunately
@katwitanruna Жыл бұрын
@@SaraHinata That’s what freaks me out so much! So so opposite to how I was raised other than my father and his mother thinking I belonged to them.
@mirimiriela480 Жыл бұрын
There was a situation when Jill was being filmed in El Salvador where her baby was on a blanket on the ground and she was immediately accused of Gothard/Pearl style blanket training. And maybe she was, we don't know. But also, maybe she had a little baby and a cold tile floor with porous, hard-to-clean grout and she wanted her kid on something warm, soft, and clean. I don't think it's crazy to put your baby on a blanket with toys like you're describing!
@fairyspunfibers9098 Жыл бұрын
@Kat Brown Same here! I "blanket trained" my babies so that they WOULD be encouraged to crawl and reach and explore their world! To becone curious! Like ALL Cults do, they twist a Good Thing and twist it to something utterly evil!
@katwitanruna Жыл бұрын
@@fairyspunfibers9098 I keep saying all those churches that don’t teach God’s love are part of the antichrist.
@MissMolly30 Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for what you do Shelise! I know this isn't easy on you or anyone that shares their story but it's soo helpful. I have been out of the church for 12 years but just this year started realizing the toxic traits and thought patterns that were indoctrinated in me. Each episode has had something in it that I can relate to. It has been so helpful to me to be able relate and feel connected with others.
@karantha333 Жыл бұрын
Jen said she didn't get a miracle, but she did. It may have been slow, but she found people that could drag her slowly out of the darkness. That is a miracle, and I wish her a full and happy life!
@knotheadusc Жыл бұрын
What an interesting video. I watched the docuseries twice, because I am interested in high demand religions. My husband is an ex Mormon, but he was a convert. I hated church when I was growing up, but I went to a very mainstream church. Every time I hear these stories, I thank my lucky stars that my parents weren’t religious fanatics. I know this comment shouldn’t matter, but I also want to say that both of you are so beautiful, articulate, and natural on camera. Well done on this video. I’ll definitely look for more. A sincere thank you for sharing!
@cindihunter9119 Жыл бұрын
What in the Hell? Wow! I'm sorry that this woman had to go through this!! My heart goes out to all that have endured such hardships! ♥️🎻🤨💔
@josephmorgan3058 Жыл бұрын
You always have such interesting and inspiring guests. Men who would waste that passionate curiosity and strength don't deserve to benefit from them, but they deprive all of us. What wonders could we discover if the other half of the species could use their gifts fully?
@LOwens-xf8yo Жыл бұрын
Nicely put!
@mellie4174 Жыл бұрын
I can't agree more. So tired of everything being defined in your life by traume. Also i hate that we have to forge the goodness in our life. Why should i have to struggle so hard to just have a normal life.
@tangofaebatelli1237 Жыл бұрын
Wow, I've already followed her avian research for a while, but this was so eye-opening. What a badass human. She rocks. You both do.
@TheRyelandfamily Жыл бұрын
I didn’t grow up in any of these cults, however my mom put a lot of these what were you wearing, what did you do to get that kind of attention. Was never taught about my body, was never allowed to know much. Would get in trouble and grounded and had no clue why. It’s disturbing to be in my 40’s with a middle school aged son. I’m very open with him, because I don’t want him to carry the guilt that is still hanging around
@ratstograts Жыл бұрын
Thank you! You are brave young women who choose to share your challenging journeys in order to support others who are still entrapped, either physically, mentally and emotionally. Carry on! Happy for you both for gaining your freedom and enjoying life. I think one of the best things we can do in response to our violators is to live well and prosper, especially emotionally!
@frankiesayspanic Жыл бұрын
OMG. at around the 34:00 time stamp, i have never heard anyone talk about this!!! i used to pray every night for at LEAST an hour (probably waaaay longer) for like every one i knew to be safe and well etc and thanking god for everything good (but of course never blaming him for all that was bad) and felt so much anxiety about missing someone or something because if i did, it would be my fault if something bad happened. idk if i worded that right i’m just so overwhelmed that i’m not alone in that experience.
@idisbrioso4645 11 ай бұрын
You are certainly not alone. I also prayed a lot, throughout the day, upon waking up, would wake up in the middle of the night to do so as well (alarm and all). I suffer from anxiety. Praying triggered it more. It was a vicious cycle. Not feeling the relief after prayer made me feel like a sinner all the time. Was told often that my problem was I didn't give my thoughts and loads to the Lord, that is why prayer wasn't working (nope, an actual mental health issue). I would hide during my lunch break at work to pray. I would fast once a week and separate the time to pray. Never served any purpose other than making me more anxious.
Cults to Consciousness
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