Shooting the EM-2 in .280 British

Рет қаралды 1,362,382

7 жыл бұрын

Armament Research Services (ARES) is a specialist technical intelligence consultancy, offering expertise and analysis to a range of government and non-government entities in the arms and munitions field. For detailed photos of the guns in this video, don't miss the ARES companion blog post:
armamentresearch.com/british-j...
I had 10 rounds of .280 British ammunition to work with today, so I opted for several rounds in semiauto (including some slow motion shots) and then one burst at the end. The .280 cartridge is less powerful than the 7.62mm NATO, but in my opinion the EM-2 remains a rifle much better used in semiauto than full auto. In semiauto I feel that it gives an excellent balance of power and recoil impulse, and is a very comfortable rifle to shoot.
I have previously had a chance to fire one of the EM-2 rifles in 7.62mm NATO, and the difference in feel between the two is notable. The NATO cartridge really does show its power, and the EM-2 just isn't really designed for that. I expect the same difference would be quite evident in early FAL rifles that used the .280 cartridge, which would be much better balanced weapons than the FALs ultimately adopted in 7.62mm.
Two of my rounds were damaged by feed malfunctions, unfortunately - but this rifle has been fired extensively as part of the Shrivenham working reference collection, and 60+ years will take a toll on a prototype rifle! I am grateful to the School for allowing me this chance!
/ forgottenweapons
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/collections/forg...
If you enjoy Forgotten Weapons, check out its sister channel, InRangeTV! / inrangetvshow

Пікірлер: 2 100

@skipscrop 2 жыл бұрын

Can’t wait to get a tec9 video tomorrow

@UT_766 2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@mareli82 2 жыл бұрын

haha

@jjg1818 2 жыл бұрын

lmao

@TFG327real 2 жыл бұрын

that won’t happen

@Reqlm 2 жыл бұрын

LOL

@mgal7087 2 жыл бұрын

Love how KZfaq recommends this to me after cold war released this weapon

@foggy3046 2 жыл бұрын

Lol 😂

@em4ncs 2 жыл бұрын

Thought I was the only one

@J0NNYB0YY 2 жыл бұрын

Lmao same lets see if i get the tec 9 recommended lol

@lucabrasi561 2 жыл бұрын

Shit crazy 😂😂

@bootlegpapi 2 жыл бұрын

Thought it was just me 😭

@emperordoge6897 6 жыл бұрын

The rifle the British army deserved, but not the one it got

@ironraccoon3536 5 жыл бұрын

Would've been way better than the FAL, but 7.62x51mm NATO was preferable to .280 British. Apologies that it sounded like I was calling the FAL shit. The FAL is a good gun for the 50s it served. The EM-2 is Posh Space Magic.

@F4Wildcat 5 жыл бұрын

FAL was a great rifle aswel....origenally intended for .280 :) And then came the SA80!

@paddy864 5 жыл бұрын

@Your Dad Don't talk crap, the FAL, like the M14, was only adopted because of American pressure to retain the 30.06 (7.62mm) round in the face of overwhelming and long-standing evidence that what the infantryman actually required on the battlefield was a lighter round and a lighter weapon. The Stg.44 was the first to actually provide this, then the AK 47. Meanwhile, the whole of NATO, and many other countries, were stuck in the past for 30 years with an overly-heavy round and the equally over-heavy rifles to fire the damn thing. Must you be reminded that the US started replacing the M14 in 1965, about ten years after they adopted it, with the 5.56mm M16? By ALL accounts the EM2 was an excellent weapon and just what was required, light, compact, simple to teach and operate, accurate and reliable. I carried SLR for 14yrs on operations and exercises all around the world and while I would admit it was an excellent rifle (of it's type!) I would have exchanged it in a heartbeat for an EM2 just for the saving in weight (incl. ammunition) alone. The SLR was a pain in the arse when operating in APC's , too long and awkward when debussing, especially in haste. Although it was accurate enough, it took a long time for the average soldier to master it and become a good rather than just an adequate shot. (By comparison, when we got the SA80 in 1986 we took the Wives Club on the range for a fun-shoot and many of them were grouping to an inch at 30m on their first attempt,!) The EM2 was most definitely NOT "a turd".

@paddy864 5 жыл бұрын

@Your Dad Yes, we used it because the US refused to adopt any calibre other than 7.62mm which meant that NATO had to adopt it as the standard round! That doesn't mean that the FAL was a better rifle than the EM2, it just happened to be the best 7.62 mm rifle available, better than the M14 for that matter. You haven't given any reason or evidence as to why you think the EM2 was no good incidentally.

@sticks5614 5 жыл бұрын

@Your Dad It's not that the FAL (or SLR if your British) was better, it was just the West's version of the AK47 in that it was tough and robust and basically indestructible but if you were like me, a skinny, scrawny soldier it was a bitch to carry. In fact I thought if I have to lug that "gat" around I might as well carry the LMG, at least it had auto, as the SLR wasn't, plus I had a shoulder sling for it. When I was given an M16/m203 to carry on a job I thought I'd gone to heaven, it was like a dinky toy. It wasn't until I fired it for real I found out you needed more rds to put a target down whereas you'd only need one or two 7.62 rds and they'd stay down.

@f1r3hunt3rz5 2 жыл бұрын

_"You couldn't live with your own failure, where did that bring you? Back to me."_ - .280 British to the US Army

@JuGNL 7 жыл бұрын

So .280 sits in between 5.56 and 7.62 NATO. Ironic since today you see a shift towards 6-7mm cartridges today. That gun looks futuristic for something designed and built in the 50s.

@rileyharville8379 7 жыл бұрын

JuG I think if the .280 had been adopted we may still have used it today, 5.56 may have never even been invented. This gun and caliber would have been a much better than the fal and sa80 for sure.

@Rrgr5 7 жыл бұрын

Riley Harville I don't think so, the rifle itself was way ahead of his time, but the round itself was practically in pair with the 7,62x39mm, in a way or another, the 5.56 or something similar would be developed, maybe not used as it was, but definitely would show up.

@bendover9862 7 жыл бұрын

I can only wonder how good it would have been with more development. The British really missed out when they shelved it.

@Christoff1996 7 жыл бұрын

Henrique Souza perhaps they would have made a version of this rifle in the 4.85mm used in the XL60 as the soviets did when they switched from 7.62x39mm to 5.45mm for the ak?

@kretinovalentino2699 7 жыл бұрын

Polish designers always look forward

@americanfootball8694 7 жыл бұрын

find yourself someone that looks at you the same way ian looks at an em-2

@a.d.9415 7 жыл бұрын

7:08. Right there. Just like that.

@MachineGunMike 5 жыл бұрын

LOL

@einefreunde 5 жыл бұрын

Vincent Kang 😂

@wavywade8164 5 жыл бұрын

.284 is 7mm. a .270 is actually about 6.8 mm. I think the US military really missed the boat with this caliber. Imagine an FN FAL chambered in this with a carbine length barrel. I believe it would have been the ultimate weapon. I don't think the US Military Wanted any weapons not made here. We almost suffered the same fate in WWII with the P-51 mustang. It originally had the Allison engine installed, same engine in the P-40. It was only when they put the Rolls Royce Merlin engine in it that it became what it was. I've never been a fan of the M16 . I wonder how many of our service men would have made it through alive if we hadn't insured on the M-14 rifle?

@nelbraudo-441 4 жыл бұрын

😉✌

@DEP717 6 жыл бұрын

For 1951, this is awesome. A much closer competitor to the AK-47 than the M-14 was. It looks up to the minute even now.

@ironraccoon3536 5 жыл бұрын

Treating the EM-2 like an assault rifle is just silly. The AK-47 is a logistically great, functionally okay rifle.

@lucasperuzzo7459 Жыл бұрын

@@ironraccoon3536 still 10x times better than the m14, well, even a pile of rocks are more effective than a m14 tbh

@calebsmith6202 Жыл бұрын

@@lucasperuzzo7459 Hey now, a pile of rocks isn't near as heavy or stylish.

@ackerkartoffel8627 Жыл бұрын

the M14 is a battle rifle, no assault rifle

@henryyoung7852 Жыл бұрын

put a rail on the top and bottom and boom, modern rifle

@whisperoftheworm6479 2 жыл бұрын

I recommend running the 30 round mag

@ede-6 2 жыл бұрын

are you a snapshot, triple tap roll?

@alishabani8954 2 жыл бұрын

Fast mag

@radicallybean 2 жыл бұрын

No.

@ede-6 2 жыл бұрын

😢😢

@whisperoftheworm6479 2 жыл бұрын

@@ede-6 yes

@Twirlyhead 7 жыл бұрын

Britains Toys in England made a set of toy (British) soldiers at the beginning of the1950s (part of their Lilliput range) featuring the newly "adopted" EM-2 rifle. When the EM-2 was subsequently rapidly unadopted (Doh !) the model soldiers remained unchanged and have been copied probably more than any other toy soldiers over the years. So there are _armies_ of toy soldiers out there equipped mainly with EM-2s; the only armies that ever were.

@einefreunde 5 жыл бұрын

Twirlyhead and so my search begins...

@dialyt1309 5 жыл бұрын

Yes! I had the little HO scale version of those soldiers. I guessed they were British but the helmet and of course the rifle were a mystery to me.

@painfultruth1846 4 жыл бұрын

I have such toy soldiers

@Emdee5632 4 жыл бұрын

@@dialyt1309 Maybe you had expected to see the old type WW1 and ww2 helmet? At the end of ww2 the British army started using another type of helmet, the one they used for the next couple of decades.

@dialyt1309 4 жыл бұрын

At that point i was unaware of the turtleback helmet.

@MarvelousSeven 7 жыл бұрын

It is a crying shame this rifle and cartridge weren't adopted.

@datsuna6585 5 жыл бұрын

MarvelousSeven 😢

@ironraccoon3536 5 жыл бұрын

The AR-10 in 7.62mm was the answer. Unfortunately, no-one went for it.

@17MrLeon 5 жыл бұрын

No FN FAL in .208 was the answer but americans wanted desperatly .308

@averylividmoose3599 5 жыл бұрын

We must petition RSAF Enfield to start producing them

@17MrLeon 4 жыл бұрын

@Nick 718 its superior to .223 as well and we still use that instead. Power is not everything.

@thvl2018 2 жыл бұрын

Call of Duty: drops new contents KZfaq: hey kids, did you know that Ian/Forgotten Weapons has a clip about this firearm ? Or else, the firearm that it based on ?

@twistedplaya831 2 жыл бұрын

I wouldnt be surprised if this channel is where cold war gets its weapon ideas haha

@murirokcs5518 2 жыл бұрын

typical

@durim187 2 жыл бұрын

@@twistedplaya831 im sure of it.

@Pisuar-nz4ps 2 жыл бұрын

В колде он не очень

@t11bake 2 жыл бұрын

@@twistedplaya831 he actually did a video with a British museum keeper that helps Activision be as accurate as possible. Paraphrasing but it was explained in it.

@hux2000 5 жыл бұрын

I really love the way this guy gives you a big dose of history every time, that he's so genuinely happy and respectful when given the chance to shoot other folks' stuff, and that he never feels the need to insert whatever gun control/gun rights opinions he may have. His interest is infectious and that's why I keep watching!

@HunterRodrigez 7 жыл бұрын

"this was so fast it felt like one" HOLY SHIT THAT THING FIRES FAS... oh wait he was just joking...

@TheRogueWolf 7 жыл бұрын

He actually had me going for a second or two as well.

@MrYfrank14 4 жыл бұрын

got me too. then i thought, it ejected the casing so fast it only looked like one...wait a minute.

@ajeje1996 4 жыл бұрын

Turns out the AN-94 copied the EM-2, who woulda thunk it

@TheLastLancer 7 жыл бұрын

My older brother was on the testing team for this rifle, and he and the rest of the team loved it - light, handy, accurate with good performance from the round against a standard steel helmet at (600 yards I think) and actually not bad on auto, although he said it worked best "tapping"the trigger for a 3-round burst rather than full on. He said the US insistence on 7.62 was a killer - a version was tried in that calibre and it wasn't very good. There was also a complaint from some senior officers from the Guards - essentially that the more compact nature of the weapon would not suit it to ceremonial drill!

@RedXlV 7 жыл бұрын

Honestly the UK should've brought back out the EM-2 and 7x43mm round when the new round of NATO standardization trials came around instead of developing the SA80 in (originally) 4.85x49mm. Just said "these were the ideal rifle and cartridge in 1951, and they still are the ideal rifle and cartridge in 1977." Granted, the US still would've forced everybody to adopt the American round, but still.

@oltyret 5 жыл бұрын

I was curious how the Guards would have taken to this. Basically, they now take a compact weapon and pretend that it is a long rifle - much as they would have done in the fifties had they recieved the EM-2. Those senior officers must have been relieved to get the FN FAL instead.

@ironraccoon3536 5 жыл бұрын

.280 was NOT the answer. Too light to be a machine gun or sniper cartridge, too heavy to be an infantry rifle one. In this day and age, it's impossible to standardize your standard weapons and specialist weapons into one calibre. 7.62mm and 5.56mm are a fine pair that work great, although 5.56mm is showing it's age and might need to be replaced by a smaller, faster cartridge.

@paddy864 5 жыл бұрын

@@oltyret I suspect that is probably a myth to be honest, Even if such comments were made they were going to be ignored, the Army was gearing up for the EM2 and were bitterly disappointed when it was rejected.

@-NemoMeImpuneLacessit 5 жыл бұрын

@Your Dad many have tried. You little charmer

@Hubert_Cumberdale_ 3 жыл бұрын

I love how it looks vintage and futuristic at the same time.

@jasonbowen7190 6 жыл бұрын

A glowing review of an ancient right hand ejecting bull pup rifle chambered in a caliber that is basically nonexistent given buy a left handed shooter. That speaks volumes!

@charlesinglin 7 жыл бұрын

It makes you wonder why, when the British decided to replace the FAL with a bullpup, they didn't dust off the plans for the EM2 and update it for 5.56mm. It's hard to imagine that they'd have had more problems than they did with the SA-80.

@RedXlV 7 жыл бұрын

Honestly, they should've just kept developing the EM-2 the whole time. Though really, all of this can be traced back to Douglas MacArthur's penny-pinching in 1932, when he insisted that the M1 Garand fire .30-06 instead of .276 Pedersen because lots of ammo was already stockpiled (by which logic no army should change rifle calibers, ever). If not for that then NATO standard caliber would've become a 7mm, either the .280 British or an American cartridge with roughly the same ballistics. And to this day we'd probably see the British Army using an EM-2 variant, most of the rest of NATO using the FAL, and the US Army using a 7mm AR-10 variant.

@EvilTwinn 5 жыл бұрын

I mean, you have to put the decision in the context of the time. Remember, this is 1932. Middle of the Great Depression. The Army does not have the money to procure a new rifle AND a new caliber and build up sufficient stocks of ammunition for said new caliber. If he had more money available, I very much believe MacArthur or someone else would have went for it.

@thesturm8686 4 жыл бұрын

Wait, i always thought this evolved somehow or act as the basis of the SA80

@towarzyszbeagle6866 4 жыл бұрын

@@thesturm8686 nope. The SA80 is basically a bastardised AR-18 action shoved into a bullpup configuration.

@F4Wildcat 2 жыл бұрын

@@RedXlV We belgians should have also went with the .280 british as origenally intended. I met at arlon one of the testers of the origenal FAL and they had a regular .280 FAL and even a bullpup. He called the bullpup "très décevant" but the FAL in .280 worked absolutelty great.

@pikeywyatt 7 жыл бұрын

Thank you Ian to take the time to come to the UK and shoot one of our Forgotten Weapons.

@mrman3809 4 жыл бұрын

Ye I'm from Scotland and I'm proud he came to the UK to shoot one of the UK's forgotten weapons

@JC-XL 4 жыл бұрын

This will now be moved to the Remembered Weapons section

@Kurdati 2 жыл бұрын

When I saw this in CW, I seriously thought Treyarch was just lazy with the last round bolt open. Never would I imagine that EM-2 would close the bolt by adding a new mag instead of pressing a bolt release

@fifteen8850 2 жыл бұрын

I wonder why more weapons don’t use such a design

@kev9539 2 жыл бұрын

EM2 is a beastily gun

@radicallybean 2 жыл бұрын

@@fifteen8850 it could jam more.

@fifteen8850 2 жыл бұрын

@@radicallybean probably, but it’s been YEARS since that kind of concept was actually put in a gun, so I’d imagine the tech we have now is much more reliable than way back then

@gcart7675 2 жыл бұрын

@@fifteen8850 not all new tech is more reliable than old tech i have a mauser .32 acp pocket pistol that automatically loads a new round in when you put the mag in and it works perfectly

@Jagdtyger2A 2 жыл бұрын

As you said about the FG-42, a good muzzle brake could be all you need for irreconcilability and accuracy

@nottactical6988 7 жыл бұрын

FINALLY THE EM2 IN GLORIOUS FULL RESOLUTION. Thank you Ian for this mightily Anglicized weapon series.

@JB-ym4up 7 жыл бұрын

am I the only one who thinks this rifle is gun art? it looks like a fine sculpture to me.

@llsusll 2 жыл бұрын

you're channel is always recommended after every new season in warzone

@sambachand2599 2 жыл бұрын

Haha I was looking for this comment

@sEaNoYeAh 4 жыл бұрын

I can't get over how cool this gun is, and how phenomenal a piece of design it was. Remarkably ahead of its time in so many aspects, even now in some ways given calls for moving towards a slightly more intermediate round than the 5.56. The 0.280 might also end up proving to be some 70 years ahead of its time if there is eventually a move to something comparable to it.

@Mulberry2000 5 ай бұрын

The problem for the SA80 it was also developed for another round, the US again said no.

@trogdor8764 7 жыл бұрын

"And when you insert a magazine in the EM2 it will automatically drop the bolt... and slightly malfunction." I lost it

@earlwyss520 4 жыл бұрын

A 60 year old magazine fed rifle that didn't malfunction would have surprised me.

@themadhammer3305 4 жыл бұрын

@@earlwyss520 also a rifle where only 60 were produced and that uses a cartridge which was not mass manufactured. Yeah malfunctions were to be expected

@flinchfu 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that doesn't sound too reliable. How far does the mag have to go in? Does it trip the bolt release before it's completely seated? Seems like a finicky feature.

@arthurfisher1857 3 жыл бұрын

@@flinchfu 60. Year. Old. Gun.

@flinchfu 3 жыл бұрын

@@arthurfisher1857 Well... and then there's that obvious point...

@LexBear 7 жыл бұрын

We've come a long way from the 480p blue jumper wearing video!

@Skyhulk95 2 жыл бұрын

Cold War:Drops em2 KZfaq algorithm:Hey wanna see a real life EM2

@nvmleo 2 жыл бұрын

Treyarch is just looking for all the weird guns they can find on his channel 😂

@EchoBoomer1987 2 жыл бұрын

I hope they find the AK Guy’s KlashneBren.

@K1LLERSQU1D 2 жыл бұрын

Fr I thought this gun looked goofy and odd asf but it’s pretty much how it is IRL makes it dope asf

@bradwilliams3643 2 жыл бұрын

@@EchoBoomer1987 do not utter the name of that abomination lmao

@Bjornieman 2 жыл бұрын

@@EchoBoomer1987 ...what kind of Elbomination was that?!

@BennettIsAmazing 7 жыл бұрын

Is envy still a sin under the commandments of Gun Jesus?

@cheatham777 7 жыл бұрын

Always respect the Beard Semper Fi

@TheRustylungs 7 жыл бұрын

BennettC You should see how nice his oxen are!!

@interstellarlapisthecccp4946 6 жыл бұрын

what exactly are you envious of lol... it's not his gun, if you want to shoot it go to this place or a range that has one.

@Khorsenn 6 жыл бұрын

Interstellar Lapis & the CCCP kinda hard to do that when it’s in a private collection and no range in existence offers one as a rental.

@ericdeer5887 6 жыл бұрын

Hunter Ray, it’s not even a private collection/range, it belongs to the collection of one of the British Army schools located in Shrivenham. Without credentials as a researcher/professional and a sponsor, you’d never be allowed to touch it. The fact that Ian was provided the opportunity to fire it and film an episode shows the respect he has from “professional” historians and curators

@MegaBoilermaker 5 жыл бұрын

Well done to the school for providing you with the opportunity to shoot a rare weapon Ian. And thank you for an unbiased assessment of its capabilities. Once again our government missed the boat !

@dwightlooi 4 жыл бұрын

The perfect “intermediate” cartridge with good long range performance and light recoil already existed prior to WWII. It is called the 6.5 Arisaka. Basically, it’s a slightly less hot 6.5 Creedmoor.

@jamallabarge2665 4 жыл бұрын

The .280 - what the US should have adopted for our uses. This round in an M14 or FAL would have been wonderful.

@youraveragereloader649 3 жыл бұрын

I still prefer the 5.56, thank you very much

@f1r3hunt3rz5 2 жыл бұрын

@@youraveragereloader649 pu55y

@youraveragereloader649 2 жыл бұрын

@@f1r3hunt3rz5 maybe i just like to be able to carry more ammunition in the same weight as a combat load of .280 or 7.62x51 Also maybe i don't want the Recoil of 7.62x51 or .280

@janemorgan4604 7 жыл бұрын

I'm curious how similar .276 Pedersen and .280 British are in power and recoil. It's kind of odd, because the US nearly adopted .276 Pedersen with the Garand until MacArthur intervened, and then later made the same choice disparaging a similar round, the .280 British.

@ATARI800XLfan 5 жыл бұрын

nearly the same.

@GeorgiaBoy1961 4 жыл бұрын

Bryce, the .276 Pedersen was not really an "intermediate" cartridge. Despite its name, the cartridge was not a genuine .276 (.270) caliber, but actually the slightly larger .284-caliber or 7mm diameter bullet. It's case was 51mm long, the same length as a modern short-action .308 Winchester or 7.62x51 NATO case. The bullets tested during the 1920s were 140- and 150-grains in weight, and were propelled at a MV of around 2,400 fps. The Pedersen cartridge was not really, by later standards, a true intermediate cartridge, but it would have been somewhat smaller than the 30-06, which would have allowed the Garand to hold 10 instead of 8 rounds in its internal en-bloc clip. And it did not kick as hard as the larger cartridge, which would have added in controllability somewhat. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur's decision to cancel the .276 in favor of the 30-06 may seem short-sighted now, but money was very hard to come by during the depths of the Great Depression, and U.S. government warehouses and armories were already full of 30-06. And the '06 had performed very well, even superbly, in combat - up to that point.

@Kav. 2 жыл бұрын

Not .276 Pedersen but Britain very nearly adopted a similar .276 Enfield cartridge (pre-dates the .276 Pedersen as it was a 1913 project), I'd suggest the recoil would probably be similar to 6.5 Swede due to the use of a full length case compared to the quite short .280 case (you really can't tell just how short it is until you see one in person). What's funny is that both times Britain tried to replace .303 (1913 (.276 Enfield) and 1937-1939 (8x57mm)) we ended up getting straight into a war and no longer being practically able to. Then when we finally got set on a round we wanted NATO and the Americans came along and went "no".

@SigurdStormhand 7 жыл бұрын

That was just awesome. As someone who handled to L85, L86 and the L98 (ugh) seeing the much nicer EM2 is just, well, frustrating. Getting to see it fire, though, pretty much made my day.

@lilgoop 2 жыл бұрын

That is a very aesthetically pleasing gun

@bruschetta7711 2 жыл бұрын

KZfaq is too good at reccomanding me these video of forgotten weapons about guns that have just been released in a game recently

@thegoldencaulk2742 7 жыл бұрын

You ask? Gun Jesus delivers, like when he brought the 10 gun-mandments down from Mount Bergmann. Or was that Gun Moses...?

@betaich 7 жыл бұрын

Or was it Mount Mauser or Mount Mannlicher or Mount (How do you spell that French rifle from WW1?)

@pointcyka4861 6 жыл бұрын

betaich Mount Lebel?

@deathlok4344 2 жыл бұрын

hey, just reminding you of a comment you made 4 years ago lol

@EmperorPretzel 7 жыл бұрын

Now I'll know to use my EM-2 in semi-auto

@jeffyoung60 6 жыл бұрын

This is one instance I wholeheartedly agree with the British. After WW2 the Brits attempted to convince the Americans that the smaller caliber, intermediate cartridge was the wave of the future. The Brit firearms scientists took the 30-06 cartridge and shortened it from the top and re-necked it from .30 to .280, which is about 7.2mm if I'm correct (7mm is .270 for reference); am not sure why the Brits didn't just choose 7mm or .270. According to history, it was a good cartridge. The problem was us Americans, or the old WW2 warhorse generals to be more specific. Having just won WW2, the U.S. Army top brass considered the M1 Garand the ultimate weapon that needed no change despite the fact that the U.S. Army nearly adopted the .276-06 cartridge before WW2 and all the signs from WW2 pointing the usefulness of the intermediate cartridge. So close-minded, narrow-minded, and obstinate were the U.S. Army top generals that they officially told the British that they were "adamantly against the .280". Probably to pacify the Brits and stop them complaining, the U.S. Army conceded to the slightly shorter, .308, or NATO 7.62x51mm cartridge, which while proven to be an excellent cartridge, was still too much power than needed. Fast forward over ten years to circa 1965. Those WW2 U.S. Army generals are either retired or dead. Vietnam is heating up. The U.S. Air Force adopted the advanced, state-of-the-art M16 to replace its aging M1A2 carbines at the end of the 1950s. The U.S. Army takes a good look at the M16, disparaged as a Mattel plastic toy gun by some, but decides it's a great rifle, shooting a lethal, high-velocity 5.56 (.223) bullet out of a 1-in-14 twist barrel. The tiny bullet tumbles upon striking the human body. Tales of dismembering and decapitating Viet Cong guerillas makes the U.S. Army top brass like the M16 even more. So without notifying our allies, the U.S. unilaterally adopts the 5.56mm x 45mm cartridge. You can imagine how our allies felt after everyone agreed to the universal 7.62mm x 51mm round. Fast forward again to 2017 where for the past several years the U.S. Army has been re-considering the merits of a larger caliber. The Special Forces do their own study and come up with the excellent 6.8m SPC and actually use it. But as of today, 2017, the U.S. stepped back from its consideration of adopting a new, larger caliber round in a new assault rifle. The M16, today in its latest M4A1 configuration, was so advanced for its time that it is still relevant today in 2017. Other nations attempting to build a better 5.56mm assault rifle come up with good to excellent designs, but are not in any way significantly better than the M4A1. Some have built-in bipods, bottle cap openers, AR-18-style internal receivers, but at the end of the day, are no more effective or efficient than the venerable M16. It will take a completely different weapon and ammunition to make worthwhile the change over from the M16/M4A1. That is why the U.S. Army decided to remain with a weapon that is still tried and true and adaptable over the past forty years. Pick up a M4A1 and you don't get the feeling you are handling a weapon that was designed in 1957. That would not be the case if the U.S. Army was still using M1 Garands, even if brand new.

@ahorsewithnoname643 6 жыл бұрын

Grande Artiste I have heard it was one specific officer in the ordinance dept that was determined that the NATO standard round was going to be an American round so there was no way a .280 round was going to be picked. I also believe the British 4.85mm round was a better round than the 5.56 but again the Americans forced everyone to their choice.

@siem3113 6 жыл бұрын

The British did choose 270. first, and the americans wanted it to be .3 of an inch so 280. was an attempt at a compromise.

@darkmster6100 6 жыл бұрын

But we all know every bit of tech you yanks have is stolen from other countries anyways since your still the youngest country in the world with no real history stole penicillin stole the first plans for a plane to break sound barrier cone on at least be open about it and not pretend your the greatest

@siem3113 6 жыл бұрын

Darkmster 6 Remember the EM-2 and many other British great weaons like the Bren, were not of actual British design. the EM 2 in this case designed by Janson, a Polish man who escaped from Poland as it was occupied by the Nazis and Soviet forces. Have a bit of humbleness

@masondyer1625 6 жыл бұрын

darkmster 6 Philippines, Canada, Australia, Iraq, South Africa, India, modern day Russia and China, Ukraine, Poland, Israel. These countries are all younger than America, some have existed before and have been taken over and reborn under a totally new government or dissolved from a previous country. This doesn’t include all the counties that are younger and many British colonies weren’t released until early-late 20th century and counting them as countries before their release would also mean America has been a country since long before the revolution. And about stealing plans for the first super sonic aircraft, well Americans did kinda make the first vehicle the make that possible. And they have been on the forefront of western weapons development since the the civil war, Hell look at WW1 it became the war it was because of Europeans killing each other with American made machine guns or copies of said guns and revolutionizing war with the introduction of aircraft

@qubed7769 2 жыл бұрын

Anybody else get this in their recommended after the season 5 roadmap for cold war came out

@rowangallagher4579 7 жыл бұрын

Great rifle, old ammo.

@GunFunZS 7 жыл бұрын

I think, mostly it's old magazine spring leading to damaged ammo.

@Sekushiwolf 7 жыл бұрын

Great rifle, old rifle. It's been through a lot seeing as not many were built.

@AM-hf9kk 4 жыл бұрын

@@GunFunZS Looks like the recoil spring is a bit soggy also. I would bet that simply replacing the main operating springs would have it operating just fine.

@yeah7820 2 жыл бұрын

this guys videos always pops up when they add a new gun to cold war

@igramnr6149 2 жыл бұрын

I hope Calico arrives in season 6, his video will blow up

@loud865 2 жыл бұрын

That dude has no idea how meta he is right now

@DARTHNECRION 2 жыл бұрын

I can’t wait to see Ian’s eventual review of the new SIG XM5 and the .277 Fury cartridge, and see how it stacks up against the .280 Enfield!

@LorD-rl7kc 7 жыл бұрын

Ian you're a beast, best KZfaq channel on the net!

@m1garandlvr420 7 жыл бұрын

Love the barrel flex seen in the second slow-motion shot. Great way to start my dad. Thanks Ian.

@Akm72 7 жыл бұрын

Start your dad? Does he get triggered by barrel flex or something? :)

@IISocratesII 7 жыл бұрын

+Akm72 My dad starts with a lawnmower pulley.

@m1garandlvr420 7 жыл бұрын

Akm72 start my day*

@m1garandlvr420 7 жыл бұрын

Akm72 that's what happens when you try to leave comments while at work

@mysticz9046 2 жыл бұрын

Damn the kick back on that gun is insane how can we just casually slide and hip fire this thing in Cold War LOL

@christianobabalao9302 2 жыл бұрын

Depends on how you handle it

@maluco132 2 жыл бұрын

Ian excited for a gun is a rare sight, notable of recognition

@heyimauav5005 7 жыл бұрын

Your easily the best gun channel on KZfaq in my opinion, I've been watching since you had like 40,000subs and every video is quality af. I think I've seen all but a handful

@ForgottenWeapons 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@andrewdods2236 5 жыл бұрын

Hey Im a UAV you’re

@silence3994 7 жыл бұрын

.280 british should have been NATO Standard not 5.56 this video is so good :) Thanks for this awsome vid

@derekmensch3601 7 жыл бұрын

silence3994 satandart?

@silence3994 7 жыл бұрын

Noble Actual spelling error, thank you mate

@derekmensch3601 7 жыл бұрын

silence3994 dont adjust it. satan dart still kinda makes sense.

@silence3994 7 жыл бұрын

Noble Actual too late but yeah lol

@1179125 7 жыл бұрын

silence3994 if i'm not wrong the cartridge kicked more than the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge and almost as powerful as .308, maybe that's why they didn't adopt it.

@FoxvoxDK 6 жыл бұрын

This rifle has amazingly quiet report! It appears stable in the slow-mo shots. Man this rifle was so far ahead of it's time!

@swagbobyolopants4737 2 жыл бұрын

The fact that they just added this in Cold War is amazing

@amplict. 2 жыл бұрын

anybody else weirdly get this in their recommendations after the new cold war season

@MrSmith336 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ian, without your stellar reputation we would never be able to get access to all these awesome Forgotten Weapons. As for the EM2 and others like it, politics really screws up things, be it firearms procurement or life in general. This rifle was so far ahead of anything else at that time it's a shame that politics intervened, and I am a huge WC fan too..

@TheAngmarwitch Жыл бұрын

Hi Ian, hope youve had a nice time visiting and playing with some of our forgotten toys. Love the channel, im not even a gun enthusiast but I love the breakdowns and the history lessons you give with each review. Brilliant stuff matey, long may it continue 👍

@brandonvaldez7427 2 жыл бұрын

Reznov teaching me how to load an em 2, incredible

@papichulo494 2 жыл бұрын

Who's here after the season 5 announcement?

@keastie6671 7 жыл бұрын

Thye should so update the em-2 and make it the standard british rifle

@Scrump_Can 5 жыл бұрын

L85

@Scrump_Can 5 жыл бұрын

@DrIvanRadosivic why ew

@classunknown 5 жыл бұрын

L85: Am I a joke to you

@thetrippedup9322 4 жыл бұрын

@@classunknown Yes, the L85 is a joke.

@chrishitchings8712 4 жыл бұрын

@@thetrippedup9322 you're a joke if you believe that lol. Ever fired one? After the initial teething problems it's proven to be more reliable than any of it's major competitors.

@xaroxero 7 жыл бұрын

I've never been as jealous of someone as I am of Ian. I'm honestly considering going to school to learn CAD and Machining specifically so I can make an EM-2 of my own. Also, pretty great how it's been like 65 years and the hot new US military created calibers (.264 and .277 USA) is basically .280 Brit with a spiffy new paintjob. We're going to have to wait until 20 freaking 20 for the Army to tell us that these newer high-intermediate rounds are the bee's knees and would have really helped out in literally every conflict we've used the M16 in.

@ironraccoon3536 5 жыл бұрын

Hahahahahaha. That's hilarious. Even if these bullets were the bee's knees, do you think they'd admit that they've been wrong for the past three quarters of a century? Plus, that'd have to mean that .280, .264, .276 and .277 are good cartridges. Oh, what a joke that notion is.

@gworfish 4 жыл бұрын

I love that you make no effort to gloss over problems. It's old, stuff happens, and your explanations teach more than skipping the errors would be.

@imnotsanii 2 жыл бұрын

I’m convinced the youtube algorithm is manually processed considering this is the most broken gun out right now in codz

@phillipallred5172 2 жыл бұрын

Nah the QBZ is really broken, it has negative recoil with a 3x scope.

@wolfder6661 2 жыл бұрын

The AMP is more Broken then both

@Glassmuncher1 2 жыл бұрын

@@wolfder6661 the tec 9 is more op

@rily8329 2 жыл бұрын

Broken because some of them take 3-5 buisness days to ADS

@cospielbjj 2 жыл бұрын

Gallo SA12 is more broken bro

@MrBandholm 7 жыл бұрын

I can't help but think that both the .280 british and the EM-2 deserves another chance in life... The .280 british I have heard (might have misunderstod it) were in a "sweet spot" in regards to stopping power and lightness, as a round... I don't know if it will be worth investing time into. The EM-2 just looks like a rifle (like so many others) that some company one day might think it would be a cool idea of making in semi fire only, and sell in the US... Sure it is a bull-pub and quit a few has started to dislike that thing... But as a project.

@MarvinCZ 7 жыл бұрын

Not specifically the E-2 and .280 British, but there are several new-ish 6.5 and 6.8 mm rounds which have roughly similar parameters. The concept certainly is getting attention, including in military circles.

@jameskachman3692 7 жыл бұрын

.280 Brit is better than .308, sure, but inferior to 5.56 wrt terminal effects. 5.56, especially modern 5.56, has *really* good terminal ballistics, helped a great deal by its velocity. If it was 1950, I'd *definitely* prefer .280 over .308, but not in 2017. I'd happily drop money on an EM-2 in .280 just as a curiosity, though.

@UnintentionalSubmarine 7 жыл бұрын

Well, one would assume that the .280 would probably have been updated as well.

@balduir5259 7 жыл бұрын

bandholm same as the dodeteau, too advanced and in a complicated political mess

@jameskachman3692 7 жыл бұрын

Oh totally, but for the same level of improvement 5.56 will have superior velocity, recoil, and weight. Personally, I'd love to see what an OTM construction .280 (ala Mk318) would do to hogs.

@Sjitzooi 5 жыл бұрын

I can feel how relaxing that shoots and sounds

@ChalkyRN 4 жыл бұрын

Just had a play with that very rifle, although couldn’t fire it. There are some amazing things in that armoury and I’d love to hear more about their semi-auto Lee Enfield conversions - it’s a good excuse to go back in another day!

@DEATHBYFLYINGCDS 7 жыл бұрын

"That fired so fast it felt like one" LOL

@richardbruce8111 Жыл бұрын

Ian you have made my day! As a12 yr old I remember the " Illustrated London News" (Britians Time+NRA) rightup of the EM2 Was at that time being coached by my brother in law who had experience WW2 in all the bad places & who was convinced that the " russians were coming" He was expert with the Bren & advised 2 round bursts , accurate & did not give your position away! I remember the disappointment when the EM2 fizzled out! There were many battle experienced guys down here in New Zealand, As a toddler I clearly got the relief when "The Yanks" arrived! Thanks!

4 жыл бұрын

Ian...your genius with weapons shines when you allow for the rifle's age.Great video...even greater narrator...

@jmad71 7 жыл бұрын

You could tell immediately at the first round it is a nice shooter.

@goldeneye0019 7 жыл бұрын

i know this isn't the type of channel for this but i would have loved if you recorded the ballistics of the .280 round in gel just to see how it would have performed.

@gregpotter6957 4 жыл бұрын

Great post thanks, and good to see the range at Shrivenham, spent many a happy hour there!

@rob5944 2 жыл бұрын

What a gent Ian is!

@malcolmtaylor518 4 жыл бұрын

The EM2 despite looking space age was a traditionally made weapon using milling etc of working parts. The L85 is more of a pressed steel weapon designed more to a price. We are talking more traditional gunsmithing verses modern mass manufacturing.

@Dexth_Jsm 2 жыл бұрын

This popped up in my recommended as the gun was added into cold war

@lucasjackson2086 3 жыл бұрын

I just love it when Ian gets excited about a gun Gives me goose bumps lol

@dmaxm2498 4 жыл бұрын

That weapon is EFFIN Awesome! I’d love to see a modern replica of it!

@zapper_2007 2 жыл бұрын

Got this in my recommended right after the em-2 came out in Cold War lol

@manuelzabdiel4991 2 жыл бұрын

Same💀

@itsajoeybeat 2 жыл бұрын

I like how this pops in my recommended as soon as warzone added this gun to the game lol

@pheonixplays466 2 жыл бұрын

Ikr

@highliter97 4 жыл бұрын

Ian has the ability to make me interested in things I previously never cared for.

@nirrec 5 жыл бұрын

I remember this weapon in 1982 when I was based in Roman Way Camp, Colchester. It was on a display at my Regiments Presentation of Colours parade and was showing the initial development of the British Army's future rifle, the SA80.

@deanzamboni7286 5 жыл бұрын

The fore-grip looks comfortable, I remember reading about this rifle in 20th Century Guns.

@luhrickster7975 2 жыл бұрын

Bro season 5 just came out why is this on my recommendations

@Hubert_Cumberdale_ 5 жыл бұрын

I love how this gun looks.

@Omnihil777 4 жыл бұрын

You should do more testing abroad, I love watching it. I'm sure there are some facilities that would love to have a dose of Ian.

@sohel80123 2 жыл бұрын

this got recommend for me after 1 day of the weapon dropped in cold war lol

@kagemand7774 2 жыл бұрын

same here

@donkeylord0072 2 жыл бұрын

Lmaooo youtube algorithm

@elrusovarcovish3196 2 жыл бұрын

Yes

@franckvazquez8204 2 жыл бұрын

same

@FaTaLthe13th 2 жыл бұрын

Seriously!

@matthewpalmer7184 7 жыл бұрын

So...when's HMG gonna start making EM-2 repros? ;)

@matthayward7889 7 жыл бұрын

Matthew Palmer as soon as I've won the lottery ;)

@matthewpalmer7184 7 жыл бұрын

Better get to scratching then! ;D

@DJJ81 6 ай бұрын

Always been fascinated by the EM2

@mikeyoung7660 5 жыл бұрын

Your videos are excellent. I really enjoy watching. Thank you abd keep them coming. Best regards

@troy9477 7 жыл бұрын

Very nice. Always liked these. My first thought was, i wonder how old the ammo is? I also wonder if Stoner was influenced by the straight line recoil system, or if he already had the AR-10 on the drawing board. These were somewhat secret, so he may not have known about them in any event. Good cyclic rate. A 2 round burst is a sensible limit. Great video as always. Thank you

@phillipharding1538 5 жыл бұрын

I was the bloke who looked after this rifle the problem was the magazine and bolt release spring was nackered . What disappointed me that Ian didn’t offer a T shirt as a thank you oh well such is life.

@chrisvalentine3017 6 жыл бұрын

Very well written report. I have fired that exact rifle at the Royal Collage of Military Science at Shrivenham. It is a great rifle to shoot.

@davidgreen5099 6 жыл бұрын

Outstanding Ian!

@GhxstFxce007 2 жыл бұрын

Who’s here when KZfaq recommended this video after Treyarch added the EM-2 to Cold War less than a week later?! 👀

@ellisondna2 2 жыл бұрын

seems like your still leveling yours up mines is on level 25 on cold war!

@israelisntreal786 2 жыл бұрын

Yeahhhhhhh I bet that sounds smart… but you just ended up sounding like a virgin pal… you shoot your game,,, we’ll chill with the real deal

@arlenfrap2008 2 жыл бұрын

@@israelisntreal786 lmao dont act too smart with that star wars pfp

@type3diabetes689 2 жыл бұрын

Stfu kid no-one cares, cold war is a shitty game anyways

@benis3551 2 жыл бұрын

God bless you, Ian.

@007.saantiiago 2 жыл бұрын

When Warzone releases a new gun from the 80's, KZfaq recommends this channel and a video with the released gun.

@Tacklebox3000 7 жыл бұрын

My envy is so very real. Ian my friend, you lead a blessed life.

@mr.defiant7820 2 жыл бұрын

Anyone get this recommended after the Cold War update?

@ilyenisvanitterrefele5381 5 жыл бұрын

I really like scope picture it makes a lot of sense for the spike to come down from above.

@GARDENER42 5 жыл бұрын

That's something a lot of people miss: It's great as most of the time, a target will show coming from the lower part of the sight picture, so you put the point on the miscreant's head & pull the trigger. Job done (did I say I think the SUIT is magnificent...)