love the shop talks and really liked that radius setup! is the error from the "straight" section of your radius? ie the tool length? mount the tool on the bar and pin-slot it to the toolpost? I'm surprised your tailstock quill and taper lock well enough to drive the carriage under power cross feed. maybe i need a new lathe, lol. anyway, enjoyed!

Good stuff Stefan, love the radius setup in the lathe. Making the pin spacing of the radius bar shorter by the tool nose radius will give an accurate part radius. ATB, Robin

I really dig these shop talks.

His last words. Super simple to make... thanks for the shop talk, always a joy to watch. Cheers from Sweden.

The large radius turning idea is absolute genius.

Thank you Stefan especially for the radius turning tip, going to store it in memory for future use👍

Perfect time to release a new video Stefan. Most of us are just getting off work and now we have something motivational to get us out in our shops this weekend.

Deckel's fascinate me, and when you and Michel are using them, i am in awe every time. No, not on my bucket list to own one, but will continue to enjoy you that do have them. Bear in TX

The radius turning idea is pretty ingenious. I like how your brain works.

Nice subjects! This is how some of us learn the most by listening to people experienced like yourself! Thanks for posting and take care!

Wow, thanks for showing the extent of thermal expansion. I never paid it much attention...I will from now on.

Being a machinist of optical assemblies, I was screaming "spherometer" when you started discussing the metrology of spherical curvatures. Of course the indicator depth on a spherometer is known as an algebraic function of the radius. No need to cheat with CAD. Another method would be to polish and set up the shiny concave item as an autocollimator, such as with a camera on the carriage, and using the DRO to measure the focal length. The Deckel system diagrams remind me of the Zeiss microscope system diagrams. Very much a German style of modularization, reuse, and scaling.

As usual fantastic work. I really love this Mill and also your surface grinder. To the point of hating you. :) Also your methodology is top drawer. Jeep it up.

31:54 I can't believe what I just saw. You sure could have done this with a profile cutter. 😉 Thanks for showing this great idea! 👍

With a shiny concave part like your spherical mirror, the other easy way to determine spherical radius is to measure the focal length! There are a couple simple ways to do this: Use a point source like a small lamp, LED, or a light behind a sheet of paper with a small hole. In a darkish room, move the spherical surface away from the light source/flat plane, until the light reflected off the mirror forms a point. The distance between the mirror and the point/light source is your focal length, and also the radius of the surface. Or, look at the sphere, line the reflection of your eye up in the center, and move the mirror away until your eye gets giant. When it's as big as it gets, the reflection will flip. At that point the mirror is one focal length/radius away from your eye.

I really enjoy your shoptalk videos,so many usefull bits of information and handy tricks for hobby machinists to learn from you,however my ebay searches after your videos will surely bankrupt me ! Thankyou Stefan

Or make the shaft a little longer and drill a small pin hole at each end , machine your splines and cut off the end and holes to achieve the desired length, and thank you for sharing the tooling with this old toolmaker, can you use a mist cooling system to keep the lathe parts cooler, good comment about thermal expansion.

Always enjoy your videos, thanks

I am sometimes told to use a Fp3L at work. I am the only one of us who has somewhat of experience in machining (mostly from watching KZfaq, and then from self tutoring with the machines we have (we started with an old Thiel Duplex, and now got the Deckel). I never got a formal introduction into the machine, and I discover something new almost every time I use it. Just the last time I used it, I discovered that next to the rapid feed lever (which I only discovered right now, thanks to you; I thought it was a highly worn out spindle break) there is a little spin button, which turns on and off the chain drive of the coolant pump. It is a really great machine. It is very capable, and as far as I know it is extremely rigid. It is heaps more rigid than the Thiel, but that might be a biased opinion, since the Thiel is also worn past adjustment in the Z axis and therefore a bit loose. I love that machine. And yes, it is not the best choice of a tool for small parts. But when doing small parts I usually set the vise up right next to the operator stand point, aka the right side of the machine. I often wished there was a rapid feed mode. Especially with small parts, the head is always in the way of inspecting in between cuts. Thank you for telling me that there is! I will test that out right coming tuesday. I currently work on building my own CNC machine. Got much work in front of me, and rapid feed will be a great help for that.

Brilliant as usual Stefan thank you.

Thank you once again Stefan, I so enjoy your work and presentation. It's the first time I've seen the door to your patio open, what a wonderful working environment. So much nicer than a basement!

Thanks Stefan! Always enjoy Shoptalk.

Thankyou for your time and the education . Enjoyed!

Nice demonstration of the part shrinkage post cut. Cheers Stefan, and may the Schwartz be with you!!! ^_____^

That was a fun video and there was quite a lot of interesting material in there. Thanks!

Very interesting info,Stefan.Thank you.

Awesome content, as always! Loved the sphereometer.

Thank you always enjoy your work and thought process

Brilliant....as usual. Nice mix of topics.

Excellent video as always! Thank you so much for sharing.

Thank you Stefan, a very enjoyable 43 minutes!

Always enjoy these shop talks Stefan, thank you for uploading my friend. 👍👍

I really enjoyed the Deckel catalog chat. Thanks for showing that. And, of course for all the rest too :)

excellent video Stefan!

Very ingenious cutting of that 400mm radius. Great stuff!

Those copy milling machines look really fun, would really like to take a closer look at one. Also, with the spherical turning, you can compensate for the error of the radius simply by making the hole distance in the bar shorter by the value of the tool radius. You would also have to compansate for the radii of the balls you used in you measuring tool in the same way. Since the curvature was really shallow it's easy to get away with ignoring it, but on more curved features you have to take that into account. You can also account for it if you make the radius of the spherical feature smaller by the ball radius of the measuring tool when constructing it in CAD, or you model in the balls as well.

Hello Stefan, interesting compilation. 👍

You always inspire me to do better with more patience and thoughtfulness! Thanks

You look great on the bouldering wall, Stefan! Clean footwork and patient moves on the overhang.

Du wolltest nie eine FP1 haben, und jetzt bist Du Fan! Die Dinger sind schon sehr universell und gut ausgedacht. 👍 Danke fürs Zeigen des Kataloges! Gruß Larry

Stefan, Your videos bring a lot of usefull information, and what is even more valuable is Your out of box approach. Keep it that way, my admirations!

Saturday morning SG.....👌, stoked on the channel👍👌🇦🇺

Most of what you do is way above my head, Stefan, but yet again gobsmacked by the setup. Pure machinist KZfaq Gold. Vielen Dank.

Good morning Stefan. I look forward to your videos. This one sounds like it is going to be very inventive. Also having watched some so far - educational. It's also interesting to see some of the history about tooling you have. Thank you for taking all the trouble to film this episode and the many others. The macro filming must be quite fiddly. Love the throw away lines as well!

excellent work

G'day Stefan, Impressive!

Interesting topic about that large radius tool Stefan, nifty solution!

Fascinating - thanks.

This saved the weekend 👌😊

I learned things today! thanks

I bought an old spherometer a while ago and mounted a federal drop test indicator. Mine is in English units. It is a super interesting toy for me.

I have a manual FP4 from the 70's and it surely does have a vertical AND horizontal quill. The machine itself is a beast, although much of the feeling does have to do with the huge table.

Stefan, that shaft operation is cool, here I always thought they were broached. That is an excellent fit.

Cool trick with the large radius 👍

Always great content on your channel. Thank you! That KF1 would be fun. 😬👍

That looks like it will make a fine steering shaft.

You are incredible! thanks

Very interesting. Thank you. 👍👍👍

German graphic and industrial design is beautiful, well organized, clean and very intimidating. These values are carried out through every aspect of industry. However, when you observe flimsy chairs holding up heavy machinery in Deckel's factory floor, and an assembly line of well dressed workers bolting parts under Porsches while zipping around on office chairs with casters, humor is also valued.

Holy smokes that new intro sting caught me by surprise! 😂

Clearance is a clearance ... just look at the distance between the solid toolpost and jaws when cutting the large radius dish ;-).

I use the same PCD/PKD inserts on aluminum and other nonferrous materials. They are an excellent value at about $10 an edge. The flip side of the insert without the PCD is an excellent edge as well if needed. The only complaint about most PCD is getting chips to break to prevent chips scratching and ruining your finish. You can get PCD inserts with laser etched chip breakers, or if you know somebody with a fiber laser (lower wattage in the 20W range does fine), you can have chip breakers etched on them. They are cheap enough to experiment various chip breaker designs on. I have a few that I done and getting fantastic results using Unist Coolube 2210 from a Micro Drop MQL system. Now that we can get good PCD for $10 an edge, I will never use carbide for aluminum again. Just being able to take tenths off with no problem makes them worth it, the finish is a bonus. I use a lot of the Horn tri lug tooling also. I use their micro internal grooving inserts as micro boring bars with excellent results. Definitely tools I couldnt go without.

Radius turning tool is simply clever. Back in the day I used to operate on Deckel mills. The no.1 accessory for me was the centering microscope. It had a very good built in light. Once the light cord was plugged in, a relay disabled the spindle motor. The drawbar tool should have similar safety feature🤔

Clocking the spline drive - in a 45-tooth spline there are no "opposite" grooves. Your second pin will be half a tooth left or right from the tooth directly opposite whichever groove your first pin engages with. The geometry of your parallel is then off-centre, with a single line of symmetry running from a groove on one side to the tip of a tooth on the other, perpendicular to your fixed parallel. If your milling operation starts on this line of symmetry, you would need to establish whether the existing spline had its groove or its tooth aligned with the new groove you are about to cut. But if, as it looks in the video, you indicate your parallel in the same direction as the cutter engages (so the line of spline symmetry is at 90 degrees to the cutter), your new spline pattern will not be clocked, but off by a quarter of a tooth.

I sanded a mirror myself. At that time I had measured the radius of the mirror's curvature with a point light source on the mirror axis and a razor blade: Foucault's shadow test

I’m a simple man - I see new content from Stephan, I automatically thumb it up and feed the algo before even watching.

Enjoyed the Deckel “tour”. We don’t see those machines in the states very much. Too bad because based on watching you they are very versatile.

The Deckel class was my favorite part. Easily in my top 3 machine tool manufacturers of all time. Manual machines are just too cool.

Tolle technik für den Radius. Und der Stefan geht auch bouldern, sehe ich. Ich bin Konstrukteur und bouldere seit jahren. Das passt einfach gut zusammen, beidesmal muss man probleme lösen😂

I almost bought a Deckle Dye Sinker for a song a few years back, in perfect order, with a ton of the tooling and accessories. I just did not have the space at the time! They are quite big!

Stephan, I dont care what anyone else says, You are a badass.

Nice as always Stefan! For reducing glare, when showing shiny surfaces (for example the Deckel brossure) you can use a polarisation filter on your camera lens :)

Very interesting radius turning, useful tip! I know You pinned Your multifix (as I do as well) but perhaps one possibility to get rid of the small error and possibly simplifying the setup could be to let the toolpost rotate and and simply clamp the tool holder and the bar together in the multifix holder. This in my mind should eliminate the error, since the cutting tip will be aligned with the hinge point, the offset rotation of the toolpost should not matter.

I've used/seen used (last job) the PHorn system used in production milling machines running almost 24/7, they're outstanding.

A Buddy in Vienna has KF1 and he always tried to Lure me into Buying it. its quite a Massive Mashine to be honest. But like you say: Super interesting Super Coool Machine

I never use water based coolant... I use the cheapest atf(oil) i can lay my hands on... First, it smells like you are caramelizing sugar when burnt or heated up, second, its oil, not water, so it can not cause rust if left on surfaces... Its also quite a good cleaning agent in and of it self, making all the machine surfaces it runs down and that get wiped off as clean as if blasted with brake cleaner... Sure, not in a single go, but when its your only coolant, you machines quickly shine up and loose all oxidation or discoloration on any supposed to be bright finish surfaces... Its essentially hydraulic oil, but unlike many hydraulic oils and low vis. spindle oils, its not as toxic as all hell, it doesnt turn acidic in a hurry like some hydraulic oils do in presence of even a hint of moisture in the air and so on... I highly advise anyone whenever i get the chance to try it or to switch over to it... It needs less maintenance than water based coolants, it lasts longer(much longer if the system is filtered and not fully open to air all the time...) and while it may be worse in cooling capacity, all the other properties it offers outscale water based coolants in my opinion by a margin and a half... If you want cooling, use the mist system with the same oil and there you go, much less oil usage, much higher cooling and still no chance of rust or any stupid shit... There is a reason why the old automatic lathes which were cam programmed ran and used nothing but mineral oil as coolant... Those were high precision, complex system machines that required absolutely no chance of any complications due to nonsense... Also, when coolant gets warm or hot, it also evaporates water inside the tank, and if that tank is the machine base or some machine cavity, you are getting moisture condensation within the machine cavity in the area which likely isnt all that immune to rust... Sure, its likely painted all over, so that offers some rust protection, but paint is a poor solution, whereas with oil, if it evaporates in the machine cavity, it deposits a layer of oil on those surfaces and all other surfaces it lands on, granting some rust inhibition as a free gift... As mechanics say, ``if water in your knee is bad, you dont want it anywhere else``... Also, if you are using or making your own water cooled spindles, you might consider automotive ethylene glycol as an additive, sure its toxic, but its delicious, and that is the point! Jk, its rich as hell in rust inhibitors and the spindle cooling sys. should be a sealed system with water to air cooling via radiators regardless, which should encourage you to use glycol(if you are confident in handling toxic additives(like the ones used to sanitize machine water based coolant...))... It will help the seals hold up better, and it wont rust weld the cooling system over time, and for fucks sakes, if you are in a cold place with a cold shop, i dont need to say that its also called antifreeze, which i dont need to explain the benefits of in using in a costly system that could be damaged by frozen cooling liquid... Also, Stefan, you are torturing me by reminding me of Deckel LKS/LKB`s, as one got away from me and im still pissed about it, as it was the seller`s fault... An asshat of remarkable magnitude... A fully decked out Deckel LKB with jig grinding and boring heads, full 2 cabinets of tools and ancillary eq. all of it for pennies essentially, and the machine was in a great condition... And she got away as the asshat had multiple sites with multiple buying options(varying per site) and while in process of making the deal with the seller, someone ``buy-it-now``-ed her online, on a site which i didnt know existed, and since the money hit the decks, the asshat despite the legal binding papers being exchanged, took the money as the more legally binding contract and sold her off... I coulda pressed the issue, as the papers he sent me had ``legally binding offer`` which i accepted, written on them, but fuck me, she`s water under the bridge - long gone other than in memory... Speaking of Deckel, those slant table FP3 variants are very popular for some engine resto rooms, logically, those where V block are the main game... You can mount the flat table and turn the head, you can mount the block to the slant table, you can do the hokey pokey, you can bore, you can deck the surfaces and so on with a lot of ways to approach the fixturing and with lots of options given to you by the machine itself... I dont know of such shops, but i have read quite a few forums where some guys claimed to run such shops and to appreciate such machines highly... All the best and well lubricated regards, Steuss

that's what we need , some fast forward life at times...

Thanks Stefan, the Deckel machine booklet was really interesting, completely out of my league but fascinating machines none the less. Just a suggestion, but looking at the ending it seems you need better stairs out of your shop! :)

I like the long radius tool 😃

I fell asleep during the brochure part, and didn't wake up until the shperometer. Had to rewind to see the radius turning.

The way You say "reasonably good" makes me think of lunar landers and Voyager I and II...🤩👍

Water based coolant is basically the only thing that allows me to part without ruining my parting tool inserts, granted I use chinese ones.It's a mess thogh but I haven't found a good oil alternative that would put the coolant on the shelf. I've built sheet metal covers for the lathe much in the way you and Robin Renzetti have done, but for the purpose of keeping coolant away. I've also used gasket product like Hylomar blue to prevent coolant ingress where the compound slide mates to the top slide. I found it made its way in there and left rust on it before, not afterwards. My lathe is from the 50s but came with a built in pump and coolant tank.

Thanks again for a clear, not to say precise, and informative video. Thermal expansion of materials not only has an impact on work dimensions but also on work holding. I stumbled on this when I was turning a roller for the craft press I was making for my wife. The material was some 41xx steel and I was roughing the outside diameter for this 200 mm long roller. Pretty simple operation having the work piece between a 3-jaw chuck and a live center in the tailstock. I used a WNMG insert with a depth of cut being like 1mm and feed enough to break the chips orderly. Of course the work piece got quite warm as I was turning it dry. Then my wife interrupted me with the excuse of a dinner and I had some quality time with her. After some 1 hour later I continued turning from where I left it off. The work piece started to rattle and vibrate violently. So what had happened during that one hour? I noticed quite soon that the live center was loose. So, why would it be loose as I originally tightened it when it was cold? Actually, when that work piece got hot, it expanded and pushed the tailstock a little farther. When it cooled down, the tailstock, of course, did not follow :) ... The thermal expansion coefficient of most steels are in the 9-12 ppm range and the same figure for aluminum alloys is in the 19-22 ppm range. So aluminum expands double as much as steel. So let's take an example for that (damned) roller I was turning. The length from the chuck was 200 mm and the change in temperature was about 80 degrees (from 20 to 100 degrees) Celsius. So, if the thermal coefficient would be 10 ppm (for simplicity), the total change in length would be 200 mm x 10 ppm x 80 degrees. This will yield 0.16 mm which is more than enough to loosen the tailstock.

If you had an indicator stand that had an arm long enough you could mount your indicator, ensure the distance from the stationary pivot point to the tip of the indicator is the desired length, them swing the arm from it's pivot and it would describe an arc with the desired radius. From there you could mount it on a table or surface plate, mount a fixture to hold the part in the appropriate location, then measure away!

I have several sets of old abused and incomplete jo blocks that I superglue to stuff all the time. I thought I was very clever

Huh, I have never seen splines cut in a shaft held vertically. Makes sense, no fighting bar sag. Thanks!

That fit was gootentite 😊

34:25 oldschool Heidenhain color scheme! 👍 and 42:30 about the error because of the tool radius, I don't see how there would be any error, since you're "profiling" with the very tip of the tool nose radius exactly because of the way the tool is designed, that being - the distance from the right pivot point to the tip of the tool nose radius being 400mm, where there is an actual error is in the feed per revolution, so in theory there would be cusps left on the surface and their wavelength would decrease as the cutter gets closer to the center, but that is minimized by using a tool nose radius that, at the given feed per revolution, would leave almost no cusp

Hallo Stefan Vielen Dank für die lehrreichen Videos! Ich richte mir zur Zeit gerade auch eine mechanische Werkstatt ein und habe mir soeben eine Deckel S1 Universalwerkzeugschleifmaschine gekauft, wäre schön wenn Du bei Gelegenheit Arbeiten an dieser wieder mal Filmen würdest... Ich habe das Glück, dass ich einen ebenerdigen Zugang zur Werkstatt habe, und eine Nutzlast von 500 kg pro Quadratmeter, nun steht deshalb auch eine Thule Stossmaschine mit 500 mm Hublänge in meiner Werkstatt:) Desweiteren habe ich eine Aciera F3 Fräsmaschine, wobei ich nach diesem Video lieber eine Deckel FP2 hätte... Grüsse aus der Schweiz PS: Lustig dass Du auch Boulderst, ich habe neben meiner Werkstatt gerade mit Kollegen eine Boulderwand gebaut...

After getting an approximate radius with the sphereometer, the telescope maker might use a Foucault test to find the exact radius. The general idea is that a point source of light at one radius distance will generate a cone of light that bounces off all points of the mirror perfectly perpendicular, and will converge at a point that is also at the exact radius. If put a knife edge into that cone, it will gradually cut the light if it is in front or behind the radius, because it's slicing into a disk of the cone. When you slide the knife into the exact radius, the diameter of the beam is effectively zero (pretty close), and so the light will suddenly wink out. There are various other factors; telescope makers are usually interested in a parabola, and the detailed shape of the polished surface. I don't know if you need it or want it, but it's an interesting technique, and I suspect if you did want one, you could pretty easily make a little sled to measure the curvature very accurately. That said, the machinery to turn the radius was terrific!

In der Lehre damals hatten wir ne fp1 mit Teilapparat, mehrere fp3 und ne manuelle fp4

Thank you for the video. I just recently watched two videos by Peter at Edgeprecision that dealt with slight errors that occur with lathe tool radii and how to compensate for that minute measurement. But I'm not a machinist, so it didn't sink in until you mentioned it. I then remembered your wise comment about trying to achieve perfection. Is there a beer waiting for you at the top of your climb ? Cheers

Diamonds and radius turning? Where are the optics videos? You're next level now man.

Thermal growth, i just found out about that during the last heatwave ! i have set my Zero of the Quantumike probably at a time where my appartment where i have my Tools was at18C or so.... well, it was off by 5 micron when we had the 37C° heat!

I really like your design for the Spherometer, I was looking at doing a similar measuring tool and turns out, there IS a math equation where you can calculate the measurement of the height/depth of the measured radius, although CAD is always easier 😁

Very close to 100K subs! 🎉 How's working full time in your own shop going, Stefan? Certainly looks like you're enjoying yourself.

Ooh, new intro music

I habitually cool down parts as I am machining for that very reason regarding part growth.

Now my brain hurts

So was the radius pivoting around the toolpost shaft centre? love that radius finder jig!