When I joined the church ensemble, I brought my own gear. All of it. (I'm the guitarist). No one plugs into my amp/s. Period. The issue came up and I stood my ground on this. I am not paid. I have very good equipment that I maintain. I am playing for the Lord. There are limits and boundaries.

I'm a church musician. I believe there is a difference between being a church musician and playing for my home church. Me personally I look at playing for my home church as using my talents for the Lord, just as I also teach Sunday School and I am the head over our medical team at church. I do this all because I am using my talents for the Lord. On the other hand if another church wanted me to come fill in on drums for a couple of weeks or something similar I would expect to get paid by that church. This is just my opinion.

The word of God says a craftsman is worthy of his hire!!!

I've Been a Church Musician for Many Years and Have Never Been paid to Play, and I would not feel right in Asking for Money, I made A Vow to GOD That I would Play for Him, and I feel Honored and Blessed Every Time I get on The Stage and Play My Bass for HIM, just My Opinion😊

Amen, great points! Musicians have chosen music as their professions and should be treated as such. No one ever questions the validity of pay to the plumber, contractor, electrician or exterminator who provides services to the church. They are trained professionals just as experienced musicians are.

Well presented. Even my whole family does not respect what I do as a church musician, and are taking turns insulting and questioning me for doing it, for no reason but to amuse and feel better about themselves. Thank you for defending our dignity.

I wish I had seen this back in the late 90's. I was the musician (drummer) for a church. They offered me a salary to play for the Mass Choir. As we (the other musicians) started gelling and getting really good, more members started joining but my pay never increased to fit the growth (as mentioned in the clip). AND I (we) were asked to started playing for the Children's Choir, Men's & Women's Ensembles, Revivals that were all week, Weddings, Funerals, Special Services, Afternoon Services that was on the evening after Sunday Service, and be musical guests when the pastors visited other churches. ALL THAT MUSIC had to be learned, rehearsed (both w/ the singing members and ourselves), and ready to perform with 90% accuracy which turned into being full-time. Oh, I didn't mention that I was slated to teach African Drumming to members to anyone who wanted to participate. So now I'm coming up with parts for different them according to their experience...whether they had rhythm or not AND make up parts for the dancers for the annual African Sunday Service. We had someone come in for a workshop and she mentioned that musicians should be getting paid at least 75% of what their daily 9-5 job was paying. That never happened and one by one we started leaving. All that work that was put in and the frustration that was felt, and the lack of respect that was given were the main reasons. Even when we had meetings with the pastors, finance head, and ministry leaders, they all said the same thing...when we grow you will get the increase. We were asked if we could get a slight increase and be paid each week instead of bi-weekly like the ministers. I can say that I have a lot of patience when I'm chosen as an MD for some bands that I play for and I am able to hear everything that is played and can correct or enhance when needed.

As church musician I get paid when I play. I volunteered my time and my talents for several years and then eventually offered a paid position (part time). We should absolutely be paid. Let me break it down for those who want to say otherwise. 1. As a musician we pay out of our own pockets to buy and maintain equipment . Quality instruments aren’t cheap. 2. We have to spend personal time at home rehearsing new set list for Sunday and time perfecting our skills. 3. Besides Home rehearsal we have band rehearsal usually during the week before Sunday. 4. Sunday’s we are there hours before anyone else running through Sunday set and getting sound checks. 5. Most musicians are playing and at about 2-4 services on Sunday. 6. We use our personal vehicles and don’t get paid for travel time and gas. Prove me different

This is a great video. I've been a working church musician since I was 12 years old and received $30 per month as a salary. I've played for churches that paid musicians and I have played for those that didn't. Over 40 years I've seen this debate go back and forth and I will say this - if the musician is a blessing to the church then the church should be a blessing to the musician. In college, I worked full-time as a TSA, 20 hours in the engineering lab, and played for 3 different churches in 3 different cities to get through college (I was an electrical engineering major with a whole load of classes simultaneously). I was so exhausted that I fell asleep in the middle of the day while driving and totaled my car. I'm blessed to be alive. A friend of mine that played for the college choir told me about a church that needed a musician. I reached out to them. I was interviewed and after the interview they hired me. That church paid me $200 a week to be the church musician and to work with 5 different choirs but that was enough money for me to get another car, get married to the love of my life, and graduate with my engineering degree. When the church as a whole starts to look at the roles they have that they can compensate I think they should. You don't know what that can do for a musician and his family. Biblically, I think in Numbers 18, it talks about how all the offerings were taken to take care of the temple. That included an offering for the Levites - the musicians. I could be wrong on that but I do believe it is right to take care of your musicians financially. Thanks for this video.

I was a musician in a church that paid the drummer $60,000 a year. They didn’t pay anybody else, just the drummer. The next church that I went to, they were paying the drummer as well, except this time he wasn’t a Christian and he came to church high, and stoned out of his mind, and sometimes showed up three minutes before service and didn’t rehearse except on Sun morning. They were paying that drummer $400 a week while everybody else played for, “The Lord” a.k.a for free. Churches should disclose who they pay and who they don’t. Because, where your treasure is, your heart will be also. The church calls it good stewardship…I call it underhanded deception

WORSHIP LEADERS 1. Musicians are not background instruments to vocals.... remember to allow musicians to play freely... (unless you are paying them, then I suppose they are just musicians for hire and will only do what you tell them to do) Musicians are not tools only their to support vocals.... there is such thing as praising God with instruments alone! 2. Know the correct NAME of the songs.... the HOOK or CHORUS of the song is NOT always the title of the song!!!! 3. If you send out the song to both the choir and musicians make sure everyone is learning from the same version of the song... this will ensure that the key, the arrangement, tempo, feel, intro and outtros are the same. 4. Please give the musicians enough time to learn the songs. Its easy for you to change the key of a song at the last minute but "some" musicians needs to learn the song a few days BEFORE rehersal, not the day of the rehersal. 5. Keep in mind that "choir" rehearsals are also musician rehearsals... and the musicians are NOT just there so you can get the vocals right... the musicians need time to LEARN the song as well, NOT only when your not singing.... it is my recommendations that the musicians rehearse separately (before) the choir but that would mean MORE commitment and MORE pay for the musicians.... 6. Question: why does the musicians get paid when the choir members dont? the choir and the musicians are at the same rehersals and at church on Sunday just like the musicinas..... maybe thats another discussion for another time.... 7. Why are some musicians paid to play instruments but don't show up to bible study, prayer meetings, or Sunday school? 8. What are some musicians NOT members of the church that they play for? 9. All choir leaders should have a strong understanding about music, arrangements, feel, key changes, modulation, song structure... I think that if choir leaders really understood music they would not change the keys on the fly... many annointed, talented, gifted musicians can do this... but not all. If a music ministry is supposed to be "UNITED" and supposed to be a ministry.... then you should know the limitations of your musicians and everything should not be centered on the vocals alone. It is easier for a singer to change the key of a song than it is for a musician to change the key of a song they have already rehearsed in another key.... 10. If you are going to be a musician give the music ministry your ALL..... music "ministry" is NOT a job.... it is pastor's fault for making musicians an occupation.... this is why many musicians church hop, they go where the money is at.... but musicians are not committed to one church unless they are paying well.... stop paying your musicians and see how "Committed" to God they are.... you will see how "Faithful" to ministry they are..... you will discover how "Anointed" they are... but its NOT the musicians fault.... its the church leaders fault for allowing NON-Members to sit on the alter and minister to "customers." not once in scripture will you see a blessing exchange for money... you wont see the anointing get any money for its services... in fact, it was actually considered evil to receive money for doing what you should be giving to the church.... Yes I am a musician and I have been blessed by churches but its NEVER a requirement. I play for the lord. I do not play and have a contract or hold the church hostage in the form of an agreement to play for the chuch as I have witnessed at other churches.... the music ministry and the musicians SHOULD be sactified and seperate... instead they are hirlings who get paid a wage for proviing entertainment to keep seats filled and attract people to the church.... this is NOT secret... the difference is.... is God accepting your offering? is your offering pure, is your praise for God or to pay your bills? are you playing because you are annointed or are you playing because you are receiving compensation? Yes, music can set the atmosphere.... but is it Gods atmosphere or is it your flesh being entertained via emotions? Watch the new Hillsong Documentary.... Churches use music to set the atmosphere but is it of God? Both Musicians and the Choir blesses us each Sunday through song.... keep in mind that the Musicians is not there to serve the Choir and the Choir is NOT to serve the Musicians.... those gifts should be offered equally..... but if you pay someone to play an instrument, then the musician wont play one note more than they are paid to play.... it is a blessing to have musicians and a Choir.... I pray that everyone re-evaluates their music ministry and that everyone is their to praise God through song and not just their to get paid.... all worship is not of God and all Churches are not of God, all leaders who have a title are not of God.... so all music ministers are not filled with the holy spirit.

I feel you man and I agree wholeheartedly too. You make some very valid points there. Nobody seems to question the maintenance staff and groundskeepers and even the pastor and assistant pastor but have the nerve to question someone in their music department who they expect to show up for morning service, afternoon and away fellowships, special events like church anniversaries, revivals, pastors anniversary and lets not forget choir anniversaries. I know what's involved with being a church support musician (I play guitar), all the hours of cramming songs from KZfaq and the time spent at rehearsals, the wear and tear on my gear and the cost of keeping it up to working order, and the time I put into learning and perfecting my craft so I figure if they ain't paying then I"m not playing. I have to look out for myself in these scenarios but the good thing is that for every church that won't there's always another one that does. Thank you for your insight and comments.

All of those musicians who didnt demand anything from the church, God will reward them in heaven playing alongside with David.😊

I agree with your rant Terence. I was a church musician for 5 years. Playing twice a month and receiving no pay. And expected to learn the most current music, when presented by the music pastor. All while working a real job and expected to tithe as well. Although I have read other comments about donating the it time and talents. Which I agree with too. Which thoughts you decide to go with would depend on you working a regular job or not and your "convictions". But in this case, this video is about people working at the church full time. And this is a conversation that I was wondering about. And I'm glad Terence is having it. You as a person need to support yourself and family. You shouldn't be taken advantage of. It says in the Bible. A workman is worth his wages. 1 Corinthians 3:8, Luke 10:7, Deut 24:5. Don't be prideful. But have pride in yourself and your talents. You are beautifully and wonderfully made. I hope this is a good additional comment to the video.

Man this hits so hard. I've been a church musician for the last 15-20 years. I'm watching this as I re-wire my pedalboard at midnight on a friday night before sunday service. All because something wasn't working right at practice last night which ran until 11pm. I'll probably be up until about 2am running through all of the songs again, making sure that everything is good to go. They just don't know or care about what goes into making Sunday morning work. We actually had to fight to get the stage for a single weeknight practice. They legit expect us to show up 30 minutes before service just ready to go. From their perspective the whole thing is no big deal.

I have been a church organist/pianist for the last 25+ years. In the churches I have been in there is a little bit of a difference as these were small churches, typically less than 100 attendees. I have been paid at some churches and not at others. For me, I play because I love the Lord and give back to Him my time and talent which He gave me. So, when I've been paid, and usually never more than $20 a service, I sign the back of the check and put it into the offering plate. I personally don't want the money. I am giving of myself to the Lord and the church. I don't criticize or judge anyone who gets paid. It's just not who I am and how I feel personally. All I will say to others who read this is... always remember that the Lord gave you the talent and please use it wisely to honor Him and not yourself. 🙂

For me, it comes down to the kind of availability and time commitment the church requires. If we're talking about one 2 to 3 hour rehearsal per week plus playing during the weekly worship service on a rotating roster every other week, then for me that should be seen as volunteering for ministry and should be unpaid. But if we're talking about people playing practically every week in multiple services on multiple days and special events, then to me that level of commitment should involve compensation.

I played music in churches as a Profession for years, and I definitely stuck to my guns that musicians should be paid. I needed to eat, and I needed strings, and a tuner etc. I loved helping lead in worship with the band, but I needed compensation for my skills. The problem is, when you start making a fuss, alot of Bigger churches will just replace you with someone who can do half the job anyway. It's a stressful place to be for sure. Fortunately traveling worship musicianship ended up being for me more, and it took care of alot of my needs. Killer video, thanks for shouting out the truth.

One reason I decided to take a turn in music and become a rebel in general in music. Music in churches is so underappreciated and people think its super easy to replace any musician on the spot. I never expected pay and rarely even gotten paid because music is my passion but there were countless hours or atitudes, groups, practice, etc that goes into it. I was expected to never miss a day regardless of also having a daytime job. So imagine mastering your craft, working for the family, and still expected to perform every time even unexpected services with little notice with little to no concern on the work that goes into it. I understand we do things for God 100%, but we also like to perform the best and not sound off, cause being off too can be off puting and embarrassing during a service. I can go on forever and Im bad at explaining it too but I agree with you 100%

Yes, this video is on point. I work at a church and the expectations are extremely high. However, with that being said I am able to speak freely about certain things and the church leadership actually hears me out. This has been a tremendous blessing and taken away some of the stress knowing that the leadership understands where I am coming from.

One thing I bring up with people who ask/talk with me about this, is that the more I'm paid, the more time I can afford doing church/music things and NOT working for money elsewhere. At the same time, I understand not all churches have the same budget, so I try not to be too much of a stickler on the exact figure, especially since I'd like for their budget to stretch enough to get the personnel that will make my life easier, but they need to offer SOMETHING. SHOW how much you value your music ministry.

That was on point. So many different aspects we as musicians have to deal with. Let’s not forget when you’re asked to play for a funeral or wedding. Then you have to make sure who’s singing and key as well as rehearse.Another thing that amazes me is when some people say you sing the the same songs and no one takes time to learn new one when you give them out. I can go on and on with this topic. Great content.

Very good video! There are also church musicians who teach Sunday School, maintain the live audio mixes, record the services, run the livestream, and update the church website. Yeah, small churches (under 100 active members) are on a different level. I don't know how I even ended up with all these responsibilities. I guess that's what I get by having multiple hobbies and interests. All of this for $150 per Sunday.

Never thought about getting paid, ild be happy with say reimbursement for equipment etc. Good video, food for thought.

music, art, etc- the vocations that are never considered "work"...have felt so many of these frustrations...the line between "serving" and "getting paid" is a fine one depending on the church...i will say that it's also a fine line between asking people to give time/effort, and just taking advantage of them because of the mentalities you've mentioned here...i still believe that, "a workman is worth his wages", and that if a church can pay musicians, they should, as many of them do this for a living...

As a part-time church musician since 1998, I FULLY endorse this video!!👏Thank you for educating the masses on what we actually do and exactly why we deserve to be compensated. Thank YOU!!

I think there is a great spiritual benefit to doing something awesome as a donation. No one has to do any gig they don''t want to. When you help just to help that's pretty awesome. There is payment beyond money. I liked one of my church gigs very much to play with a great band in a beautiful spiritual environment and hang with other musicians and have that community. Don't get me wrong, I make a pretty great living playing music full time. But I do think a little spiritual service can be a spiritual benefit to the servant! : ) Just to add that perspective! : ) And I Love churches alot. And every specific situation is different! : ) I've been very thankful for every church gig I've had. And lastly, I have seen that good communication can solve all difficulties eventually.

I’ve been playing in church since around 11 years of age on and off until 19 years and haven’t stopped ever since (I’m in my 40s now). I wasn’t regularly payed at my home church, but at the end of the year the Pastors admin would give all the department a check for a few hundred bucks at the most. I always received it as a token of gratitude. I’ve always had a job and God always provided for me, maybe because I didn’t seek more. Periodically, we would also be given gift cards for gear and stuff for our instruments. God has been faithful and I’ve never desired more because I was set. Playing outside of my home church though, that’s where I saw the extra blessings on a weekly basis. And all without leaving my home church where I served. Everyone is different, but if it’s for the Lord, no matter who the Pastor is, we must have a right attitude and spirit or what we do is in vain. And our finances won’t get us as far. Good video.

You are absolutely correct in all that you said, I do agree church musicians should definitely be paid...if an electrician was called to wire a church would anyone expect him not to get paid?...Serious musicians take lessons which cost thousands of dollars over years of studying, quality instruments/equipment cost thousands of dollars and maintenance of you equipment isn't free..So yes church musicians should paid...The hours that go into preparation for a service is far more than the non-musician would ever know..

You hit the nail on the head, Amen!!!😊

I am a church musician. I would not want to be paid for a few reasons. As you said, the church might feel free to add to my responsibilities, a downside to it being a job instead of something I do to serve the Lord & my enjoyment. I don’t think a musician is “worth” a salary any more than Sunday school teachers or people who maintain the building & grounds.

Thank-you Terence for voicing this issue so well. I've been 30years working as a church musician, and I only got paid once which was unexpected and out of the blue, after a retreat. I've never knew my worth as folks love what you do. As long as it's for free.? Due to circumstances now and necessity I have to look for help like a beggar. It's very embarrassing to say the least. And yes all the things folks say to excuse and silence their conscience, so they don't have to recognise your dignity. Especially when you are in a desperate housing situation. I'm currently in a hostel. I have an aptitude for music but the rest is work work work.. Which I love doing. I really enjoyed your postings on your channel, and I hope and pray, that this will break the ice, on folks viewing music ministry different. Don't get me wrong, I feel I've proved my calling for music ministry. But as soon as you ask about some financial help due to circumstances, you get folks trying to grade you and insult and question your ethics about music ministry. I'm 30years working at this? I really think their should be some governing body to help music ministers get paid work at a fair rate.? Lots of folks like myself worked for no payment for years 30 in mycase. And we end up in poverty? Also playing for no fee might seem a good thing but when you do this you encourage other church folk, not to pay other music ministers either, I like an unwitting black legger, who does the ministry for nothing, and then by doing this makes it impossible for Folks to see the issue of payment for music ministers who want a fair payment rate and who need it. Especially if it's full time. Or they are experiencing poverty and don't have a home. How much does it take for Folks to see the fair issue here. ? 💭 I will keep on ministering, but this is an issue. Ps I have liked and subscribed to your channel. Thanks again for highlighting this issue. Godbless 👍😎💭⛪🎵🎶

Churches would not be successful without music. The musicians should definitely be paid.

God bless you, my man! You are accurate in everything you said! Today, I'm a successful musician without having to be a church musician because a lot of churches are full of themselves!! And I'll give you a great example: This church that I was working for had a special engagement at a golf country club to where the pastor (who I despise to this day) asked me to set up my gear - my gear and equipment for the artist Ben Tankard who got paid $600 for the event, and I got paid only $100. What bull#%$@! I have never returned, nor do I have the desire to give my service for churches since! So again, thank you for telling it like it is!

I'm with you all the way brother I've been playing at my church for the last 20 years and I'm still getting the same pay people don't understand it takes work to make the music right at church

Thank you,you’re telling the truth!!

I appreciate your desire to rant, and many of the things you put forth in this video. I believe it is a topic that could easily consume a whole hour of time. There are a couple of things I would ad to a longer video. Perhaps you will do a part 2 or even a part 3. 1) Personal responsibility. Your video '5 ways to break free from 100 dollar gigs' contains much that would fit with this topic. Whether we're the musician or the guy who shovels snow off of the sidewalk before church, we need to look in the mirror and take responsibility for what we have agreed to do. I need to put all my requirements on the table from the beginning, or ask myself 'who's dumber? Me or the guy who talked me into what I'm doing?'. 2) State of 'the church' today. I've recently been reading through the old testament. In 1 Chronicles there is quite a lot of detail about trained, skilled musicians...who were Levites. Literally thousands of musicians. But remember that in those days the Levites were supported through the tithes and offerings of tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of people. Today's average church goer doesn't give anywhere near 10% of their income. Whether we are well paid, under paid, or volunteer musicians, we need to understand that 'this is not our home' Not until we all get to heaven will there be proper justice and equity.

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽Straight up facts!! I have been through a lot of those situations you are referring to, churches consistently have unrealistic expectations, and we as musicians, work so hard, and are constantly undervalued and disrespected, and don’t even think about taking a day off!!

Yes. As a former worship leader for 15 years, most of which I was paid nothing or less than $100 a week, it costs a great deal of money to purchase instruments, supplies, maintaince, lessons, not counting our valuable time that is taken from our families.

Everything you said in this video was absolutely spot on

It's a rough life for a worship leader. I think that a lot of churches do their best, but sometimes become blind to what matters. I've been a worship leader for about a decade and was cut a little over a year ago since our church lost a few "big tithers". But they kept on the media team and paid them. I haven't left the church or anything and continue to work through these issues while taking a step back from leading and they want me to come back to the position without pay. I've been seeking the Lord over a year about this because I do believe that people are quick to jump ship, and we don't always get what we "deserve". Christ paid it all for me and to him I owe all. Please pray that God would speak to me. Thank you for anyone who sees this. Also, don't take this as me bashing my church, because I love everyone there and think just a few bad steps have been made, but I boast in the Lord even when I fall short. I am not above anyone there in this matter. Thank you all!

I think all the points you made are very valid and accurate! The Praise and Worship leaders and musicians should be compensated well for everything they do as they are a huge part of the churches identity. Also, I have a story that basically sums up payment of musicians and their value from their peers. I worked at a church over 15yrs ago and we often had traveling ministries come in and do a concert or a youth event. On one occasion, I reached out to a guy from Florida and he said that he didn’t have a full band or any musicians he brings with him so he would use either the churches musicians or band members from a local CCM group. When I emailed him and said well what is the payment for the musicians learning the songs and for the performance? He responded with, oh well I do this for a living and this is how I support my family and continued ministry. So, I emailed him back with, I’m sorry I can’t help you with that as this would not be fair to ask people to do this and not compensate them! It’s almost like some people try to guilt trip others or expect people to do things for free! This is not right and needs to Stop! The verse that comes to mind and I have used often is The concept that “the laborer is worthy of his wages” (Lk 10:7; 1 Tim 5:18). Some people don’t always like it but that’s the way it is!

I have some wild stories I can tell with my experiences playing in the church. I'm a church musician out of Houston, TX and I really don't know where to start. It's a been a wild ride. This video was really on point especially when it was mentioned about the extra services, especially when we had to go do these afternoon services at other churches for various anniversaries and not getting one dime extra. Thank God that when covid hit, all the afternoon services were cut. But that's just the beginning. I've played at a church where I was getting paid a mere $200 a Sunday. Honestly it wasn't bad at the time considering the membership was roughly 15-20 people. But the pastor was so demanding, he claims that I wasn't brought in to just play, i was brought in to "lead". Lead meaning whenever there were other things going on, like for example, the grass needed cutting, the building needed painting, someone needing to be there early on Sundays to unlock the building and make sure the ac or heat was turned on depending on the time of year it was, all that was thrown on me. I had to make sure the bathrooms were cleaned and had to stay after church to lock up after service. Then it was thrown in my face week in and week out that I was the only one on "salary" and he wasn't getting paid, and he was the pastor. But it gets worse. I was told to not expect to get a check and just leave right after service. I had to make sure all those things were done, then I get the check, and leave after everyone else has gone. There's more... I went from getting paid every Sunday to every other Sunday which meant whenever there was a 5th Sunday, I wouldn't get paid because that was my give back to the Lord Sunday. Then I was put on a 1099 and was told I had to pay $25 a week in taxes. Since when are taxes taken out when you're on a 1099? Really??? Let's talk tithing.... are we supposed to tithe our 10%? Yes. Isn't that what's in the word? Yes. Does the church rely on members tithing to keep the doors open? Yes.... However does everyone tithe like they're supposed to? No. Unfortunately at that time, roughly 15 years ago I didn't tithe like I was supposed to. That was between me and God. I was asked to show a checkstub so he could justify what I was putting in church because according to "his calculations" I wasn't putting enough in church and was told I would be cursed. That's when I stood up to him and told him I wasn't showing a checkstub because that wasn't his business. Now let's talk about catching the Holy Spirit. I was told that when I play I don't hold my hands up and shout and dance around and supposedly be all into it like some of those "other" musicians do. No I'm not one of "them" but he called himself laying hands on me and whispering in my ear that I needed to feel the Holy Spirit, so I took that like just fake it and fall back and let the deacons catch me so I just gave him what he wanted. It's funny because I was looking out of the corner of my eyes trying to figure out when it was time to get up. Good Lord I can go on all day with this but back to the original topic, all of this gave him reasons to throw in my face the fact that I was the only one in the church getting paid and how he was the pastor and he wasn't getting paid. After 3 years of all this I wound up quitting and moving on, then I got a nasty phone call and being told that I did myself a favor by quitting because he was getting ready to fire me anyway. Yeah whatever. I'm at a much better place now and have been in this place for 10 years, which is the longest time I've been playing at a church since moving to Houston in 2004.

Hi. Im an established artiand/musician,/producer and i was brought up in church. My mom was the choir director. Struggling to fimd my place and getting the church to at least help financially jwas my biggest hurdle. Along with the whole chirch and its hierarchy telling me i shouldn't be gigging outside the church all while refusing to support me and my family. I left the church aand kept doing shows because my obligation as a husband and father mandates me to provide for my family. God has blessed me with other opportunities to further my craft and reach beyonf the borders of my islamd church monopoly. I have come to realise that some of us musicians may be called elsewhere from the church and perhaps that isn't all bad. It just sad that my home church doesn't see the value and hard work involved with directing and training different people hoping to create a sound worship team. Im doing mentoring and traing for up and coming musician and producers and im influential in that department. Thank you for this video. I hope all Christians esp those in church leadership see this at the very least if not by personal revelation from our Lord Himself.❤

Professionals deserve compensation

Leviticus 19:13 The New Revised Standard Version 13 You shall not defraud your neighbor; you shall not steal; and you shall not keep for yourself the wages of a laborer until morning. Unfortunately, it's not just in the music industry. It is everywhere. Everyone is always trying to get something for nothing, including churches. You make a lot of valid points that people to easily look past, and sadly, those doing the work agree to the terms. You have to value your own time and efforts before someone else will. Good video!

GREAT VIDEO........many in this world feel..."oh, you're just having fun OR music is just a hobby" etc........I GUESS THAT'S WHY IT'S SO HARD TO MAKE A LIVING PLAYING MUSIC. When I was playing full time, pay was VERY important as I had bills to pay. ...Thanks Terence

Terence where have u been all my life. You just got a new fan.

Best sermon I’ve heard in a while

I used to play guitar at a church where I lived a long time ago. I am self taught and developed some grasp of theory and musicianship, so I was transitioning from beginner to intermediate at this time. One day, the PW Leader decides he wants to go into the community and teach people how to play. I show up to practice and we all find out that we are volunteered to do this. This is an afterschool program, 2 times a week, from beginner to advanced taking the class. I worked 30 minutes away and had to rush to get home in time to instruct this class. They stuck me with the beginners with no teaching material, no direction, while the PW Leader that started this took all the advanced drummers to go jam out. I had about 30 students who never practiced practiced, didn't know how to hold a guitar, and the ages were from 5-50. So for three classes I taught what I knew, which was some practice exercises and how to develop the C Scale and create chords. Two students asked if we were from a church nearby because come to find out the PW Leader tried this program in the town next door and they were supposed to play one song after 8 weeks of instruction. By the 4th class, the PW Leader changes everything on us and wanted us to teach them how to play one song in the key of G. Two classes later, half the class left because they didn't like the new direction, and the few that stuck it out to the end, including those 2 students who took this same class twice, couldn't keep up with the intermediate and advanced players. They all lost any enthusiasm they had when they were forced to play this one song. I was stuck teaching because most of the other guitar players had job interference and couldn't help out, or should I say wouldn't. They were smart. I did all this on top of playing 3 Sunday Services (guitar, bass, and run sound), 1 Wednesday Youth Service, 2-3 practices a week and with no pay. Needless to say I eventually left that church for a wide variety of other problems, but that stunt began to burn me out of this whole thing.

Totally agree! I was a musician in the church for 40 years and didn’t get a regular salary until the last 10 years of service.

WOW...Mr. Terence Fisher....no need to apologize. This video was my third video I watched and you got my attention right from the start of the first video. Everything you've said here is on point and I must sadly agree. And I say "SANDLY" because it's so unfortunate that I've gone through this A LOT. I wholeheartedly wish the pastors and church congregations would truly understand this once and for all. I liked how you delivered your point of view. I could tell you're bothered by this situation we musicians have had to face. But in your case it not what you said but how you said it that makes a difference. God bless you bro. Much love from Canada.

Musicians should always get paid.

Good rant!!! Not many folks talk about this stuff.

Terence I've been a professional musician for 42 years now, and I'm still dealing with this topic with my church as of this week. Since I told them I was leaving they now want to give me more money after playing on the low for nine years. Too late, I have another church that respects my commitment and abilities. I haven't told them I would accept the position yet because my days of playing for churches might be over. I'm tired brother!

I’m not a church musician, I have done some gospel gigs but everything you said was spot on brother

I'm a pianist and organist for our music group at church, and I really love playing, and I would never expect to be paid for it!! I just enjoy playing for everyone. Xxx🥰

Hello. I've been a bassist for over 30 years. While living in Southern California, I played for one of the largest churches there. I enjoyed it very much. The band was very tight and we all got along very well. We never got paid , and really didn't complain about it. Our Pastor talked about it at one time, and we thought that would be great, but it never happened. But we still continued to blow it up every Sunday. That was back in the 80's and early 90's. Since then, over 30 years ago, I've moved back to the Midwest. The church I play at now has the musicians on the payroll. It's nowhere near what your chart says I should be getting paid, but I'm cool with it. God has other ways to pay you for your services.

Some great points in this video for the musicians and churches of a larger scale. I go to a small 130 person church and bring an acoustic guitar each week. The worship leader sends me the songs 1-2 days before and 90% of them I already know like the back of my hand. All in it’s about 1-2 hours of work per week so I’m fine with not getting paid.

Spot On / Nailed It

If a musician is an educated professional and the church has asked him/her to use their abilities within the context of music ministry then they absolutely should be paid, just as a pastor or in many cases other support staff are.

For it was the king’s command concerning them that a certain portion should be for the singers, a quota day by day. Nehemiah 11:23 NKJV

I’m a volunteer musician but if I were to be paid, I would require a contract.

Thank you for covering a lot of ground. We need a class on these issues...

Very true. I’ve served and played for free and considered my time my tithe because Time IS Money and while you can always get more money, you can, in this life, never get more time. That being said, I did that for over 10 years and recently started playing at another church and after a month they started paying me which was a blessing for sure and then 2 months in, they doubled it! God is good all the time. Worship is Warfare.

I share your frustrations, brother! To the point where I won’t work again with a local church unless that gifting is honored by being paid!

Agreed! I play for a lot of church down here in dfw. It takes alooot of time to sit down and learn multiple sets at once. I’ve had weeks where it’s literally back to back. There are times I do give back. I’ve blessed plenty of my friends with guitar pedals/cable/I’ve taken cuts on deals where I know I should have gotten more. But I see where the lord has brought me to and know it’s only going fwd from here. I’m always willing to bless people where blessing is giving. I’m also really to volunteer my time at some church who can’t find anyone or afford me. But this is a living and life style it’s literally my part time job. People disagree with me getting paid. But at the end of the day I have to bring food on the table and support my wife and I.

Yes and absolutely yes Church musicians should be paid.

a musician can easily be a usher, trustee, van driver, help in the kitchen, help do things around the church, most of us are savvy on computers. but no one else with those positions can play an instrument yet along the hundreds of songs we know and learn.

I do not look for nothing I am at church to praise and think God for the gift he gave me of music and use the gift 😍😍😍😍😍😍to bring people too him

Church musicians should be paid without a doubt

Man... This is accurate and I feel where you're coming from. I'd like to say though, that it's not like this everywhere. But I think the reason that these issues are so common is because Churches aren't businesses. Many of them do not have business savy nor business practices. There are a lot of bad cultural traditions that have been passed down through "poor" Churches as well. When the history of the Church was thay they couldn't afford a musicians, they don't know how to manage their funds in a way to properly pay musicians and other people will dp it basically for free, it makes it hard to build a precedent. At the end of the day, most Churches are supported by volunteers. If you think of the early Church, they were happening in someone's house, and that house was often a part of a community where everyone was being taken care of in one form or another. Churches today (at least in America ) function like clubs or institutions. People often attend a Church that they are not even connected to outside of services or special events. Musicians may be members, or may iust be mavericks who are traveling for a gig. Sometimes they love the Lord, sometimes they don't lol Churches are unique and often so are their financial circumstances since they don't inherently generate revenue. I think the most important thing is that we as musicians are educated and are able to advocare for ourselves in these situations. I grew up directing the choir (from the age of 14), then leading the Worship team and then covering for the paid musician when he was out. All of this for free. Later, after I left that Church in college because I got a paying gig at a "white Church." I found out the people I covered for were being paid lol I never thought to ask. I grew up serving in that way and was happy to do so. The Church also struggled for money, so I understood them paying for what they had to and not paying were they could not pay. Now I'm the Worship Pastor and an elder at a Church. We can't afford to pay all of the musicians and continue to do all of the work that we do in the community. (We also do community development and a number of other structural things in our community through grants etc.) But for a time, we've had to pay contracts to a small group of musicians (including singers) to maintain the excellence of Worship since our Church is growing and I have a lot to manage. It ebs and flows, but we always try to take care of our people the best we can. It works for some people, it doesn't for others. Ir should always be a conversation, and if we feel that we're being taken advantage of, we should also present solutions. Especially if we love the Church (overall Church). One size just won't fit all in these cases. For clarity though, the situations described in this video are rough, common and wrong lol I've seen these things too.

Bottom line: KNOW YOUR WORTH!

I have been a church musician for years. Everything on this video is 100% correct. Fortunately I was paid well (I was Minister of Music) and I had a budget, but I was victim to talk from members, many of whom felt I shouldn’t get paid. Eventually I resigned and since then I haven’t played for another church. There is a concept that we musicians get paid for only 2 hours of work. No one seems to know all the preparation involved before Sunday. SAD.

Quick question. I’m not a money hungry person and I kinda don’t care about the being paid part but I was told by my old organ buddy that I’m too humble. I’m a church drummer and get $40/week I’ve been playing since I was 2 and I’m pretty advanced and have had the chance to play behind some good names. I go to church to play for God and fellowship together but I start raising my eyebrow when they feel like I’m worth $40/week and the piano player can get $200-$600/week. Maybe I’m viewing it wrong but I thought that was kind of unfair

I play lead guitar I have 55 years experience I've into gospel about 15 years and I've experience experienced every thing you've said amen to every thing you've said 😊

Now let me say this. I have never been paid at any church where I attended regularly or was a member. I play sax and percussion. I would need a small box truck for my congas, bongos, timbales, roto-toms and various small percussion instruments. Forget about being paid. I have often been left alone to disassemble and reload back into my car. Once upon a time, very few knew that I played percussion as well as I do, because I did not have my own instruments. They only knew me as a saxophonist. The saxophone clashes with some styles, especially the way I play. However, I have been able to blend my percussions into every contemporary style. This has made some churches drool when I offer or ask to serve in music ministry. Mind you, I have NEVER brought my ENTIRE regalia to a gig. I usually go with my congas, bongos, their stands, maybe a cymbal or two and a bag of the small stuff. I recently added a tumba (bass) to my congas, and that LP Matador tumba is made of wood and much heavier than my Toca fiberglass quinto and conga. I have often gone as a guest minister or musician with my horns and percussion setup to participate as member of the universal Body of Christ. I think there have been three churches in which I have been involved that paid other musicians. There is a fourth that may have paid guest drummers. I am not completely sure. However, since I did not play bass, drums or keyboards I never made the cut. That was once upon a time. That ended about 15 years ago (I am 61 and been walking with Jesus Christ since 1980). I now have the policy that you pay all, you pay none or I don't play. I know the work I am putting into performing with excellence. If we are all volunteers, fine. I guess it is like the pandemic "essential" and "non-essential" nonsense. If I ain't essential, then why am I up here? My guidance for my place in music ministry comes from Ephesians 4:1-16, I Corinthians 12 and Romans 12. Overall, I am driven by Proverbs 11:24-26. Proverbs 11:26 tells me I am absolutely not to keep my artistic skills to myself, but in fact must hone them to edify my neighbors, even if I have to charge them for it to do it best.

You said it all brother, Bravo

I realize this video was put out a while ago, but I have to say…listening to you describe everything you go through as a church musician gave me flashbacks! I could feel my blood pressure going up. It’s been a while since I played at church, but all those feelings and frustrations came running back when you talked about them. While I do miss playing drums at church, I don’t miss it that much. Great video, oh, and we never got paid either.

Great vid!! This subject must be said. I have been paid and not paid over the last 3 decades plus and the many church ministries abuse this double standard with volunteers versus contract staff to full time workers. Why is the pastor paid and not volunteer musicians that are good? I have been active in mega churches to gain a great view of the “politics” of the church as well as working behind the scenes with well-known names. The responses I get from ministries sometimes is “Please Bless Us” (meaning volunteer for God). I have been told by non-Christian vendors that the Christian ministries are one of the most disloyal of clients and they gave key examples to me. I was told by a manufacturer’s rep that he feels that only 30% of Christians reflect their faith. We can’t change everyone but we can control what we do in the realm of Christian music and production ministry. Always walk in Christ even if it means you are alone in doing so since The Lord is always with us no matter what.

Well done!!! Outstanding message!

I think the reason people ask is, should one be paid to worship God, ultimately. Are we doing it for the Glory of God? Or our we motivated purely for the money. Now there can be a balance but it tends to boil down to this.

I went through this as a former worship leader, lol! Was expected by the pastor to put anybody on vocals AND provide 3 hours of vocal sectionals and give them their harmony parts only to have all of them forget their parts come Sunday! Keep in mind I had a full time day job doing all of this too. 🤦‍♀️ I had to hold band rehearsals for the musicians as well and they wouldn’t all show up for rehearsals OR the actual service. I had to call them and practically beg them to show up - it was like herding cats. And the Pastor blamed me for his church not growing- said I was “the thorn”. His exact words. I did get a love offering but had to remind them to pay me, lol. Not sure if I want to go back into the church music ministry. 😢

A workman is worthy of his hire! I wonder if God is pleased.

Terence, thank you so much for this video. You said it all. The injustice to church musician is out of this world. This is one of the reasons most church musicians live below average life. Let anyone say what they like, you have spoken the truth let them take it or leave it. Kudos

Fulltime Church musicians should be paid and paid real good! When the church begins to require the musician to play for all 2 or 3 sunday services, mid week programs, weddings, funerals, seminars, anniversaries etc. as well as attend 2 or more choir/worship team rehearsals, when/how is the musician gonna have time for a career outside, considering also that he must devote time to practice and horn his skills? So If the church don't pay, how will s/he feed his family?

Of course church musicians should be paid! You provide the service, you get paid for it; that's how things are supposed to be. Great message!

“For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭5‬:‭18‬

A LOT of people really believe you're born with it, and that it's something that comes so easy to you, so why do you consider it work? They completely dismiss the work it took you to get there and to remain good at what you do. I know they don't mean anything by it, but every time someone says they wish they were born with the talent to play music, I take it as an insult because they are dismissing your hard work and value.

Thank you now let package this and to send to ever church and up and coming pastor ❤

Love your content in general. I’ve worked as a children’s ministry leader for 30+ years. Was never paid for it until another church offered me a paid position working with their kids. Elders/ministers convened and ended up hiring me about 4 years ago. Now I do the same thing I did for free for 15 years, but now I’m “on staff”. So I have a real appreciation for your “unpaid services” comments. My congregation has never paid its’ musicians. The “associate minister” works part time & is paid. He also teaches, occasionally preaches, takes care of the all the tech stuff, plus leads singing and the choir. He’s easily worth twice what he’s paid. I have played full concerts at churches for free, for a small fee (maybe $150/$200) & have been promised to be paid & never was (oversight? Who knows?). And people often tell me I should do this for a living. Not trying to brag, I’m just a natural entertainer, Backed up by decades of playing guitar … Your video really got me thinking. Yep. Church musicians should be paid. And more importantly, their expected duties should be clearly outlined. Our usual worship is accompanied only by piano. We have 5 different pianists. All very competent. One is classically trained. Another of them simply has that extra “something” …. with you as keyboard player, I’m sure your mouth would drop if you heard him play. He’s just that good. But again, all of them, despite years and years of practice, paid lessons and even college training, do it for free. So yeah …. You really got me thinking.

Short Answer: Absolutely

I have never known a church musician to be paid here in the UK - a music leader may be employed but everyone else is a volunteer. It’s a “ministry“. In fact, EVERYONE, apart from the Minister, is a volunteer.

Amen brother!

These reasons that he is stating are facts this is why as a musician you need to just go out into the real world and make your living through the secular industry it's your talent I think that God gave us our specific gifts to do just that ..and what I hate the most about churches is that they judge us for leaving the church to play as a professional musician..how disrespectful are these pastors to even think they have the right to not pay us then dam us to hell for making a living as a musician how dare they...

Definitely, Yes! Everybody else gets paid - pastor, secretary, bookkeeper, janitor, etc.

I agree 100% pay me or I move on I am a professional and I will not stand for that lack of respect !

Terence, this is such a great video! Please forgive me if my assumption is wrong, but I am probably 18 to 20 years older than you and I want to let you know that all of the issues that you have so accurately identified was also happening back in the early 1960(s)! During my time as a church musician, there was a good pastor who paid me very well and requested that I never talk about or tell anyone about my pay. He also explained to me why paying church musicians had become such a controversial issue. To quote his words; “Why should the Church purchase a COW when there are so many people willing to donate a free Carton Of Milk !”

The more the Pastor makes a living from the Church''s treasury, then the musician should be paid as well.Just as you said, the Church is crowded only because of the Music Department.. You've really rounded the whole point bro. Well said, baba. No Salary, no music. Members can grab their Tambourines. In worship. LOL

I’ve been serving at church unpaid for over 10 years. A professional musician i earn money teaching and gigging for over 35 years. I understand why they don’t pay since this is not a traditional business that charges admission into the church, they are reliant on donations. However, I digress we should be paid at least some thing, since it takes skill to do what we do. This would also allow them to weed out all of the musicians that are not beneficial for the ministry those that do not practice, and those that do not take it serious.