a good portion of the clips, you dont have x4 honed edge at the start. You can see you still have 4 in the mag...

@@evanogburn You do the honed edge reload before grabing the banner so you have the x4 with 4 bullets, don't know why but it's done that way. Also you can see it's dealing the full damage a 4x honed shot would deal.

@@ElMigol_ you get 3 more shots by honing before flag

@@VioletSteel13 yeah i get that but how is that important? Anyway I have to reload again to get x4 honed edge right?

@@ElMigol_ If most of your dmg is coming from the rocket , then is better to do a regular shot the 2nd time around rather than waiting for the rehone. Especially for most dps phases by the time you hit the 2nd BnS cycle you are already nearing the end of the dps phase , and 1 more rocket dumped is usually preferable than waiting for izi . Tho there are caveats to that argument as izi roughly does about 70% of the rocket's dmg with honed x 4 . And you would technically save a rocket . so Dps vs total dmg over multiple phases argument if you know you can't get max ammo again for the next phase.

My favorite DPS equation.

I got a crux termination with bipod and envious assassin so I can blow a fat load with that thing

This. Why would he not do sniper/shotgun rotations for bipod as well 😅

This sounds like you didn't 1 phase oryx . The total damage shouldn't matter for oryx unless is on master.

True and bipod deals with bursting down a champion or yellowbar quicker while getting the 25%damage buff. B&S setup isn’t as quick

Thats what explosive light on apex pred is for@@G1224Alex

Crayons, You know crayons. And punching.

this is exactly why this video fails. when incorporating other weapons, Bipod beats BnS loadouts with more total damage and way better ammo economy. video is so poorly done.

@@sdfE36 yep, I get that he wanted to minimize variables but in doing so he removed the one major factor that allowed bipod to compete with B&S.

true but id bet because damage phases don't last that long he didn't test it. usually there are wipe mechanics if you can't kill the boss in x amount of phases

@@Casualfield just used my bipod rocket on some raids the other day, oryx, nezerac, and rhulk I was able to get off all my rockets and still have some time for supplemental dps. It’s definitely something that comes up fairly often so that’s why I’m confused why he didn’t test it.

@@EggyWeggyIIIya, like why didnt he use an exotic special / kinetic, or a super since in this example he had like 10+ seconds of doing nothing after bipod.

Im pretty sure the ammo reserve buffs dont stack unfortunately, my buddy had reserve mods with bipod, and i had the same but with field prep but we both only had 15 rockets

@@krispiests6554 near max reload speed while crouching is probably what op is going for

Problem being you might as well be using CC with envious BnS at that point . Is like much stronger than apex with a good roll. The only caveat is that access to it especially for day 1 for ppl who don't already have it is very rng .

I got the b&s gl with envious and it is perfect for lucky pants timing it takes 10 seconds to fire 17 gl shots with b&s and it does 150k dps if im correct. This with lucky pants is insane.

@@KevinBrevin oh is actually 17? Good to know I thought it was 15 like the regnant. I suppose the mag size is higher on the trials gl. And yeah short term dps the envious bns roll out dpses rockets. and I ran some maths and the total damage is actually not far off whatsoever (higher without wolf pack).

@@soraneptune4178 It's supposed to be 15, Envious Assassin is currently bugged and ignoring the 2.5x mag cap so 17 is possible at the moment

@@stuartfoxcroft2940 ah right the same way how you can get 4 rockets in cc. I think you can get a 7 mag with extended mag on a gl. So that would become 18? Rounded up, and you can probably get your entire reserves in 1 mag with the glitch lol. no spiked nades sucks on a h gl tho

Even so, the ammo economy is still not the best with Bipod. Their are two variable factors. How fast you can blow you load, and how much ammo is left over. You could only fire off three Bait n Switch rockets and 8 bipod rockets, but because you are firing off less Bait n Switch rockets, in that moment the economy is better as you have more remaining ammo. The trade off is damage of course. That’s why when testing, you want to use same type builds to find what is truly a better damage source.

You do pick up more ammo per brick with bipod. Up to 4 before mods or exotic perks. I do not know why this was not mentioned.

Month late but I agree especially if you're using a Strand special or kinetic for surge matching. Not to mention Field Prep and the origin trait Head Rush actually pairs amazingly well as you not only double up on the reload bonus but it also helps negates the reload speed decrease from Bipod. Any time you're crouching for the Field Prep reload you'll naturally also proc Head Rush. Honestly I think it's slept on. Enhanced Bipod is -15 reload. Enhanced Field Prep grants +55 reload. Head Rush gives +10 reload.

​@@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 foe tracer with strand subclass and strand rocket, insane damage

Its ass

pretty sure it will be worse than just equipping an instant reload exotic or just playing hunter still .

Good point. That would make it a pretty solid consideration for me.

Honestly just lower the reductio a bit more or change the heavy ammo drop rate and bipod would be good

@@messiahnyx971 while it would definitely benefit the perk I kind of doubt it, as it would get too close to simply turning into an upgraded Clown Cartridge at that point. It already does enough dmg for it's intended role, the one thing that would truly make it a viable perk, as I said is improving it's ease of use

That doesn’t make sense though because bipod doesn’t double reserves. Just run a scavenger mod between phases

@@digiorno1142 no it definitely makes sense. While it doesn't double reserves, it vastly increases them. if amm pickups stay as is, then the perk literally also nerfs them. It increases reserves by 5, which on a typical rocket (base reserves, no mods) equals to 7 shots, so it increases reserves by 70%. Imo it would make 100% sense if the perk also improved ammo pickups by on average 70% or at the very least add a +1 multiplier or something, so you always at least pick up two. Since imo the scavenger argument doesn't help here, since you could easily also say the same about regular rockets of which you then would still get more bang for your buck.

I do goldie, lucky malf, cascade ikelos, recon bipod apex all enhanced about 2.3 mil vs Kali when I exhaust all ammo

Is there a slug shotty with Cascade point yet?

I’ve only been using apex with recon/bipod and lucky pants with malf, but a cascade point shotgun might actually be worth it if some damage phases are really close to the boss.

@@SidVirtuous not that I know, I'm using the ikelos one, my aim isn't good enough for slugs anyway

I don’t expect Malfeasance to get to Day 1. It’s probably gunna be on the list of disabled guns with the Overload/Unstoppable double dip bug. I wouldn’t plan on it.

I'd love to see Osprey tested.. with Cluster + Bipod.

i know its late, but auto loading doesnt work on breach launchers or rocket launchers

Doubt*

I believe you may have misread the patch notes. They’re increasing (not decreasing) the cap on player outgoing damage for Contest Mode so we’ll actually be able to potentially output more damage than we normally would locked at 1790. Rockets will likely still be the play, they’re just in too good of a spot right now not to use.

@@Kehls no it was decreased damage and crota takes 25% less damage from rockets and 25% more damage from swords so thats fun

Yeah I agree with pretty much everything you said. Basically if you don't burger shots tho, might as well run B&S.

This was with scavenger and max reserves. Field prep might change things, but bipod also looks to increase ammo per pickup and it didn't seem to with cenotaph.

I like b&s but bipod seems more reliable in some situations. I’m probably going to craft another rocket with bipod so I could have both to choose from.

At this point u will get more value from a CC FP hothead, bipod has way too low of an ammo pickup

​@@lenxmu9765a scav with a finder while using an exotic primary i hit max reserves on both bosses in root with plenty bricks to spare. I also had top dmg when paring it with cartisan

@@lenxmu9765 While 2 per finder brick is kind of ass, 4-5 per random heavy is kinda nice, ngl.

@@sauceinmyface9302 u still have 4-5 even with bns

stacking surges is harder, thats why most people will use apex.

u can actually do 9 if u do the EA glitch

@@TheRivs80plus you have fewer damage options for surges too. If someone’s using witherhoard that’s off the table, if you take izzy you have no matching element fusion rifle or even GL or shotgun I can think of that is secondary and stasis besides the new Tessalation exotic but then you gotta drop Izzy.

@@connormcateer7125 Ok this is a huge misconception with surges. CC is so much better that the 1 surge difference isn't actually going to make apex better . This is has been thoroughly tested. Is like wilderflight. That gl is so much better than even WITHOUT surge matching it does more dmg than every other energy breach gl.

@@soraneptune4178 what testing, I’d like to see that then. I know cold comfort is better in ideal scenarios, ballidores and at max capacity and what not but that’s not easy task. So I’d be curious to see the tests and the conditions they show for how at one surge CC is better than apex at 3 surges.

I'd argue that for strikes is better because you can't predict the boss will have orbs to gather, or you may die by accident etc Bipod just gives you a truckload more rockets to use trough whole strike to speedrun those But that is just my opinion

If a Warlock using Ceno w Navigator and this, it would pack a big punch in GMs

Meant to say 5 bricks

@@gmeinersYT you really out here man! Keep up the good work!

Don't know the numbers (could check aegis spreadsheet but I'm lazy lol) but I guess it would be even better than apex since you can buff the damage even further with the warlock exotic, don't remember the name.

Neither, use parasite or a sword for boss DPS. Rockets are awful for Gambit

? I mean during regular raids sure . But for day 1 unless we get another nezarec situation , you are going to want the extra time with other weapons and extra total damage that BnS provides. Rn bipod is worse of both worlds unless you are one of those players who has never played with a dps rotation before and relied on solely holding left click on one weapon for dps you can't really mess up a basic BnS rota .

Control burst High impact are the best fusion for damage and dps so no eremite wasn’t a bad choice, the problem is that to fully load a bipod rocket with recon you need 14s which is a long time and while reduce your dps by a lot. If your dps phase is infinite sure it could be a good idea to go with something like Supremacy + Eremite + Apex, dump your rocket, swap to a special for 14s then go back to apex etc. But most of the time you just dont have the time for it to be worth it.

@@azzarnthelizard that is why i said "shoot of your bipod rockets RELOAD then switch to supremicy shoot about 9- 11 times" you dont have to wait for all 4 of the rockets to reload just manual reload then switch to what ever you got and wait for the last 2 while you dump what ever else you got

@@deadviking2494 the thing is if you arent going to wait to fire all your rocket, there isnt really any reason to not use BS. The only interesting aspect of Bipod is being able to shoot alot of rocket rapidly, like you could do with field prep/clown hothead before. With BS you could easily shoot supremacy twice to proc tremor and go back to BS while shooting your primary or a gl once in a while.

EL?

Explosive Light @@shawndog321

someone nearby shooting a gjallarnhorn will grant wolfpack rounds to other nearby legendary rocket launchers

With envious assassin and bns ?

Is not just based on hits , is based on dmg dealt. this is why an smg isn't giving you old starfire protocol levels of nade regen

@@soraneptune4178 but in the Patchnotes they use the term: per damage event. And i know that they tuned faster weapons different than slower and primarys got an extra tuning. So is it really dmg based and not weapon Typ based?

This exactly. 8ish seconds to close a gap of 650k is not insurmountable. A BnS Supremacy can so that.

... what. 😅

​@@wxl2562wasgood my butter cream pie

​@@wxl2562wsg sugah

@@SlongestKongest wasgood my cuddlecake

​@@dudeman757wsg my sweet little crumbcake

its not the fact of which loadout could do more damage, its which rocket perk is better. BaS requires you to use your other weapons, so you have to use it to proc the perk. Comparing the Radient Dance Machine Numbers shows it all because he never needed to reproc BaS in that time. The BaS apex did more damage with less rockets and even faster time than bipod, so the dps for BaS is much better than bipod. The only reason Bipod would be good is if the dps phase is really short, like 15 seconds short.

It would not make up the difference because no non-heavy in the game, except for maybe lucky pants malfeasance or fourth horseman, is hitting anywhere remotely close to 92,900 damage per second over 12 seconds, meaning it will considerably lower the dps. For example, let’s consider some arbitrary weapon that we can swap to with a dps of 50,000. If we do 16.26s of RDM bipod dps, then 12s of this weapon’s dps, that leaves us at (1,510,000 + 12*50,000)/(16.26 + 12) = 74,663.84 < 92,900.

@@jonathange5450 fair point, for the record, hunter main here, totally had malfeasance in mind when I commented, I doubt it makes a huge difference, I just thought it was weird to compare using all three weapons with BaS against only using the rockets for bipod lol

I’d say Grand Overture would be great on the deathsinger.

It's gonna be different. I expect crota to be flipped.

@@twizms2 see I expect them to steer into the lack of DPS phases even more. We're getting too good at DPS (see this video for reference) so if they really want to challenge the day one teams, making it more about timing & good mechanical play would seem like the way to up the challenge.

impact casing isn't really needed

Definitely gonna be changed like oryx

@@jaken4224 i hope so

On semiotician that’s what I crafted. Without reserves, you get 14 rockets. Great large filler damage, as I run Navigator and Judgement Glaive with strand titan. It’s great for range and large chuck damage.

The eremite or Cartesian Coordinate. Cartesian is better for rotations and Eremite for spam

​@@josephsmith2417lmao they weren't a random group. They're only random if you're a casual player

Great for high end add clear, bad for boss damage

It's solid but loses to rockets. With tight DPS checks for contest it's probably better to run Rockets + gjally. Leviathan's Breath is good for no brain dps rotation bcuz the only thing you need to do is aim. However, because Bipod exists if you don't want to do izzy swaps with Apex BnS, Bipod is just the better option between leviathan breath and apex.

they were NOT a random group at all, they were known speedrunners with with very good placements in the past@@josephsmith2417

@@josephsmith2417They were a well known group of speedrunners goofy.

If it did 60% damage and now does 75% damage compared to other rockets, its damage over increased by 25%. 0.75 / 0.6 = 1.25

That's exactly the meta rotation for malfeasance :)

It has been proven with health bar testing btw (more accurate than wipe screen numbers) that BnS when procced specifically like the following : shoot kinetic , shoot energy , shoot heavy . WILL make the first shot buffed even if it doesn't show it on the wipe screen. I don't really think not having heavy is that much of an argument here considering that little "feature". As even if you have no heavy ammo , you have done exactly the same damage with rockets as someone who spreads it through 2 phases. if you shot say 10 BnS rockets in 1 phase . That's exactly the same as shooting 5 BnS over 2 phases. Having no rockets doesn't typically lower the dps of your other weapons . So if you were using a conventional izi + fusion or izi + gl cycle for BnS , you can still use those weapons in the next phase even without rockets. And they don't get any worse (most of the time) without the rocket . I feel like this is a common misconception with ammo economy . Just because you didn't use all of your rockets it doesn't mean you are improving your overall dmg . you are both going to end up shooting the same amount of rockets overall and therefore the same amount of dmg from your rocket. The only valid scenario where this is not the case is for specifically final stand. But we have seen time and time before as of late that final stand is perfectly manageable with even just primaries .

@@soraneptune4178 This.