Should You Care About Marginal Gains? | GCN Tech Show Ep. 278 With Josh Poertner
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Күн бұрынMarginal gains guru Josh Poertner is here to answer your questions. Josh is the owner of SILCA and previously worked as Technical Director at Zipp. We take a deep dive with Josh into everything from the importance of marginal gains for recreational cyclists to the impact of tyre hysteresis on rolling resistance. Tech nerds, this is one for you!!
00:00 Intro
00:28 Last Week’s Poll
04:37 Josh Poertner
06:02 Are marginal gains worth it?
08:22 What are the best marginal gains?
13:14 Do marginal gains matter at lower speeds?
15:26 Do wide tyres kill wheel aerodynamics?
20:30 What is tyre hysteresis?
23:20 Is testing accurate in the real world?
26:41 Hot Tech
30:04 Comments of the Week
36:19 Bike Vault
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@gcntech Жыл бұрын
What’s your favourite marginal gain? 🧐
@dieterloos7382 Жыл бұрын
shifters inside
@BreakawayB Жыл бұрын
🌬️Riding in the drops.
@mathewrose2951 Жыл бұрын
I like leaving some marginal gains on the table so I can then surprise myself with how fast I am when there's an event. That's why I ride most days in a retro jersey. It makes an Assos skinsuit that much faster on the day when you put it on.
@robbchastain3036 Жыл бұрын
The big ring. 😀
@taburetca Жыл бұрын
which is faster (aero + Rolling resistance)? Real 25mm tire with 25mm optimized rim or real 28mm tire with 28mm optimized rim?
@phenofinder9145 Жыл бұрын
Having guests like josh on is a huge step in the right direction.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Great to hear that you enjoyed having josh in the video 🙌 Where would you like to see us take the channel? We'd love to hear your feedback.
@SecwetGwiwer Жыл бұрын
@@gcntech Dylan Johnson would be great to have on the channel.
@chicagoan Жыл бұрын
@@SecwetGwiwer As long as his alter-ego comes too brah.
@sierrapolo Жыл бұрын
I think you’re headed in the right direction with the nutrition video this week and the tech guest. Obviously, you have a big fewer bass and a lot of us are well past the more basic videos, and would like to hear about more in-depth topics that would help us go faster/farther
@CyclingGeo Жыл бұрын
I have to start watching Josh. He’s just saying ”X actually works”. Finally someone who won’t think I’m insane for wanting a 500€ upgrade which has as much of a gain as skipping out on eating that extra spoonful of yoghurt.
@andrewmcalister3462 Жыл бұрын
45 minutes of Josh and Ollie? I'm in bike nerd heaven. 🤓 😇 Thanks Josh for appearing on the show, and for being a sponsor.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Long show this week! We couldn't stop chatting 🙌
@mlee6050 Жыл бұрын
@@gcntech way better than question TV shows when it like *says half answer* "okay we must leave it there"
@SamuelBlackMetalRider Жыл бұрын
We should ALL thank Josh. Such a great Man
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
We loved having Josh on the show 🙌Should we get him back for more? 👀
@alolympic Жыл бұрын
Josh is ace. Fountain of knowledge, expertise and a great guy I would imagine
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Shall we get him back on the show? Bit more Josh coming this week 👀
@IamPapaShaw Жыл бұрын
Have this dude on every week. He’s really dropping the knowledge on Ollie and Boris.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
His knowledge of putting us to shame 👀
@tertiaryeel2066 Жыл бұрын
Week 5 of asking for a 'The UCI has no jurisdiction here' T-shirt
@jonasvieth Жыл бұрын
Josh is great, bring him on more
@gcntech 7 ай бұрын
Look Who's Back... Back Again 😎
@anthonygittins506 Жыл бұрын
Full on Josh bingo card: "it depends", "rule of 105", "hysteresis", "at Zipp". Loved it!
@SecwetGwiwer Жыл бұрын
I’m not sure that many people grasp the idea that marginal gains are not just about going faster, they’re about being more efficient which means you can also go further or do the same for less effort.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Great point! Do you use marginal gains to help you out on those long efforts 👀
@SecwetGwiwer Жыл бұрын
@@gcntech absolutely, I’ll take all the help I can get!
@capt_darling9454 Жыл бұрын
Awesome... absolutely LOVED this! Josh (and Silca) is brilliant... please PLEASE more regular geek-out sessions
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
More geeky Josh chat coming soon! Turn those notifications on and never miss a video 🔔
@BreakawayB Жыл бұрын
🤑 As athletes existing in a marketing-heavy sport, it’s easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees. We understand that marginal gains are “worth it,” but it’s important to remember that 70-80% of the system’s drag comes from the rider, so the most cost effective way to improve cycling efficiency is to improve your CdA through proper bike fit and spending time training in aerodynamic positions.
@jtmuso Жыл бұрын
Yes!
@TimRawsonrocks Жыл бұрын
Which are among the marginal gains which come under said ‘heading’!
@mlee6050 Жыл бұрын
Wrong, best way is self balancing bike and remove rider jk
@maxbucky24 Жыл бұрын
Maxbucky24 here - I’d swapped all the aero gains off of my tt bike onto my road bike just to see how much difference it makes. I went to the wind tunnel test day with EzGains and the disc cover is as fast as a top end disc wheel and 1/10th the cost and the chainring cover is a lot more aero than a separate crank and chainring
@DanielMooreDJ Жыл бұрын
As a bit of a nerd myself this is my favourite GCN video and I was part of the first 150 subscribers!!! 🤓
@davidh8600 Жыл бұрын
Regarding the point that aero gains don't matter for slow riders, there is also the aspect of the watts you need to increase your speed by 1 km/hour, which is much lower at low speeds. So you gain fewer watts at lower speeds, but you also need less power to ride faster. Therefore, aero gains are as important for less powerful riders as for pros. Maybe this makes it in the next video about aero gains
@stephenauckly Жыл бұрын
Love Josh and Silca, great stuff.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Was a pleasure having josh on the show 🙌 Should we do more Silca content? 👀
@stephenauckly Жыл бұрын
@@gcntech Absolutely! They are doing an Unbound series right now, would love additional content about that.
@PoulHansenDK Жыл бұрын
That the inserts expand after loosing pressure is one vital information we didn't get in the last video. And of course are compressed when you pump up the tyre and that way don't influence rolling resistance very much. Good info.
@veriest1 Жыл бұрын
Best GCN Tech show in a looooooong time.
@savagepro9060 Жыл бұрын
#askgcntech Watts wrong! I swear I've increased my margarine gains, yet I'm getting slower and slower? Any food for thought?
@chrisbaum998 Жыл бұрын
One of the Top 10 GCN Tech shows of all-time! Bring back Josh for more shows!!!
@AK-ContentCreatIon Жыл бұрын
Marginal gains are a blessing... My fitness is so low, that I appreciate every thing I can do.... especially the position on the bike You mentioned in one of those wind tunnel videos has made the most difference to me.....
@krehme Жыл бұрын
Really fun watch having such a knowledgeable guest for the whole show. Thanks guys!
@frankharradence732 Жыл бұрын
Great Show, really informed and interesting guest. PS...The Parachute Regiment also run the Pen Y Fan as part of their training, I first did it in 1965 as an 18yr old Para recruit; passed the training and spent 6yrs in 3 Para.
@kenneththomas3558 Жыл бұрын
Great show. Thanks to Josh for joining.
@MikeStAmand 11 ай бұрын
I loved every minute of this video. More of this please. Josh was a fantastic guest. I could sit at table over beers and listen to you three talk bike tech all day.
@Ruggine85 Жыл бұрын
5:20 Josh step by step guides are the only admitted tutorials in my kitchen
@jw3638 Жыл бұрын
Great to see more bike nerds on the show. Josh, Ollie and Wally! Great show guys. Always learning something from you.
@jasonmcgrody9472 Жыл бұрын
Great conversation and I particularly liked the bike vault. Fit in really well with the rest of the video.
@jenniferw6081 Жыл бұрын
Fabulous episode with Josh. Really enjoyed it, thanks!
@TheAlfaromeo1968 Жыл бұрын
Best interview/ material for ages, ty.
@carlmullender2941 Жыл бұрын
Blow the marginal gains in speed, I'm 68 and suffered badly from road buzz in my hands, wrists and feet whilst running v good 25mm tyres at 110 psi, because of GCN I changed said tyres to 28mm same brand, added latex inner tubes dropped pressure to 60 psi to find I can ride all day without pain and discomfort - that's not marginal - that's almost life changing . Thank you guys
@hugobci Жыл бұрын
Josh on the show is a huge gain!! As a short-pocket person, I can atest significant gains when you sum up some free and budget tweaks he talks about in the podcast. Specialty the ones that adds comfort. More comfort, less fatigue, far distances!
@sean7456 Жыл бұрын
The groundspeed vs airspeed thing is SO huge. I live in Kansas and dealing with crazy wind day in day out. Even on my commuter bike, making some aero tweaks (trunk bag vs panniers) makes a huge difference in terms of overall speed and effort.
@hendriksiering9077 Жыл бұрын
Absolutely great show this time!! Can´t wait for another part!
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Tune in for the tech clinic next week! 👀
@danpiruth6385 Жыл бұрын
At the Ridley factory, the purple paint does not cover the decals because it was sprayed before the decals were put on. What you see on the images is the clear coat being applied, as can clearly be seen by the color of the paint in the spray gun (translucent liquid)
@lwittrock1 Жыл бұрын
Excellent guest in Josh Poertner. Great show.
@ezgains Жыл бұрын
Great to see Max's bike on the show.🎉
@DaveBerry89 Жыл бұрын
Excellent hearing the tips and knowledge from Josh!!
@Ton7o Жыл бұрын
Happily listen to Josh talking bike science all day long - great guest 👍👍
@stuartfreedman6854 Жыл бұрын
Excellent guest Josh! Great to see Silca enjoying something of a revival as a brand also. At least from my perspective (as a 70 year old in Toronto), Silca has always been "Campagnolo" quality!
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
It's great having Silca onboard with us at GCN 🙌
@julianallen515 Жыл бұрын
More Josh please. He's the most knowledgeable guy for all things aero and presents it in a way that is understandable to the layperson. Can't believe that you guys didn't touch on waxing chains!
@underbelly6042 Жыл бұрын
Could listen to Josh for hours! Legend
@MggW Жыл бұрын
Giovanni making a hash of the Shaw quotation at 35:46 - "Two countries separated by a common language" Kudo to Ollie for letting this pass.
@markbradshaw4960 Жыл бұрын
Great show. Josh is, of course, a proper Leg End.
@123moof Жыл бұрын
Tailoring: Luke over on the Trave Velo channel did an episode on how to DIY tailor a cheap jersey. If you access to a home sewing machine it is like a 15 minute job, and does not involve any cutting so you can always undo the extra stitching if you are unhappy with the results.
@cyclingnerddelux698 Жыл бұрын
Outstanding episode guys! Super guest.
@crazhar Жыл бұрын
Ollie's perfect Ferrari pronunciation suggested to me that his Ferrari dealer must be from the Huddersfield region of Italy 🇮🇹
@billwiecking7763 Жыл бұрын
Excellent interview!
@ethangodridge6833 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this deep dive.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
No worries Ethan! Great to hear you enjoyed it! Would you like some longer videos in the future?
@aheritage20 Жыл бұрын
Amazing episode with engaging facts, expertise and comedy.
@MarkBurghouwt Жыл бұрын
Finally someone good on the show
@Playmaker_08 Жыл бұрын
Brilliant guys!! Love the explanations. Hysteresis is in many dynamic systems to some extent. For example our lungs 🫁 have slightly different pressure-volume loop characteristics between inhalation vs exhalation.
@christoingram Жыл бұрын
This was excellent content. Please can we have more discussions like this with experts?
@marksmith6007 Жыл бұрын
Love Josh. Great show.
@CanyonWanderer Жыл бұрын
What a great guest!, so many insights and indeed the "air speed is not ground speed" argument does give a mega twist on when aero starts to be a non-marginal gain!!
@gerrymcbride6429 Жыл бұрын
Reducing my overall system weight from 98kg to 88kg; a work in progress.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Nice work Gerry! 🙌
@capflamme Жыл бұрын
I love the composure with which Axel endures recurring jokes about his first name 😂 Also, please be careful, don't hurt yourself with these razor spoke wheels.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
We'll be keeping Hank as far away from the spinergy wheels as possible 😂
@user-cx2bk6pm2f Жыл бұрын
Wow!! Josh is here?? Very cool!!
@davidwaddy2 Жыл бұрын
"Do you want to make it any harder!!!" Love it Ollie!
@markstetzer2776 Жыл бұрын
Hello from Indianapolis, where Silca are based! Josh and the whole Silca team are fantastic, and marginal gains really do work. I’m riding as fast this spring solo as I did in a race draft last summer, in no small part due to Josh’s advice and all these tiny compounded gains. Great interview!
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Great to hear that you have been pushing that speed 🙌 What has been your best marginal gain trick? 👀
@markstetzer2776 Жыл бұрын
@@gcntech Body position feels too obvious, so I would say rims wider than tires (with proper tire pressure). Very noticeable difference especially on windy days in exposed areas.
@markusseppala6547 Жыл бұрын
I don't really watch other stuff anymore from gcn but these are great while on the trainer.
@KenSmith-bv4si Жыл бұрын
If you look at the guy spraying the paint, check out the colour in the paint holder on top of spray gun, it's milky white which when sprayed dries clear, it's the clear coat going over the base coat or colour.
@denisbassom172 Жыл бұрын
Josh needs to be on the show more often
@clarklowe5632 Жыл бұрын
Loved Josh explanation on the two different types of inserts. Seems most riders don't know there is a difference between the two.
@stuartdryer1352 Жыл бұрын
I certainly didn't.
@bartversteijnen1084 Жыл бұрын
So as Josh says we do not want tire to slowly bounce back to shape: hence pump it up to 15000psi
@bateriayvr8988 Жыл бұрын
I'm in British Columbia Canada and yep... we've always said "deck-als" lol.... Btw, awesome seeing Josh here! I just dd my first ever hot melt yesterday with Super Secret and it's so silky smooooth... just awesome stuff!
@MrGarycoww Жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this tech show,josh is fascinating to listen too! 😎
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
A true bike nerd 🤓
@MrGarycoww Жыл бұрын
Love it!,he's like the William Shatner of bike Geekness! 😀
@MrIanD1 Жыл бұрын
Great show
@19diego82cinttocs Жыл бұрын
On the Ridley bike, the decals were applied to protect the white base coat paint before spraying the purple, actually they were "masks" not "decals". The masks were then removed revealing the white base coat paint and finished with clear coat.
@TimRawsonrocks Жыл бұрын
Josh is the biggest brain in cycling tech!
@sherab2078 4 ай бұрын
I have the impression the question do marginal gains matter for a casual rider has not been answered in the conversation. And I'm not saying there is one answer - this rather falls into the category 'it depends'. And I would argue this depends on three things 1. What is your style of riding, or in other words, what for you ride bikes? Is it commuting, adventuring, or sport? Do you ride alone, or in a group? Then we go to the point 2. How marginal are those marginal gains? Because I don't think gaining a few seconds, or even a couple of minutes (like 5-7 minutes) matters a lot for a commuter riding to work. It would matter if this was maybe 15 minutes or more. These margins are of course different for different people, I give them just for example. From the adventuring standpoint, like bike-packing, touring or simply riding fast for fun, again - If not looking at a bike computer, you probably won't notice the difference between riding 28 and 30 km/h - both speeds will feel virtually the same. This was for the 'riding fast for fun' part. And from yet another perspective - saving 15 minutes, or maybe being able to ride a 5 km further on a whole day touring ride probably is not worthwhile either. But make these hours or tens of kilometres - now, that's amazing! So, I think those really tiny marginal gains are worthwhile only if we start to compete - with others, or with ourselves (like breaking personal records). Of course, there are also those bigger marginal gains that can benefit all, but everyone needs to judge them by their own scale. And finally 3. How much do those marginal gains cost? The watts per money ratio? And how does this correspond to the thickness of our wallets?
@michaelfleming4015 Жыл бұрын
I love the technical engineering term, “Sticky outy bit”. 🤣
@stuartdryer1352 Жыл бұрын
I ❤❤❤❤❤❤ Silca immersion wax.
@adrianbreguet3924 Жыл бұрын
Would love to hear more from Josh about his brief comment on hookless rims, or maybe another topic for a deep dive discussion in a future GCN Tech show.
@2deaf4sound Жыл бұрын
Nerd alarm! 🤓 Love it!👍
@grahamaustin9085 Жыл бұрын
really interesting chat
@bartversteijnen1084 Жыл бұрын
Hey Josh thanks for maybe helping develop the Zipp Tangente Puncture resistant road bike tire which is the ONLY tire that can replace old road bike tread inserted in the new roadbike tire as a liner. I live in Indonesia and every road is uneven and full of holes ! Thanks Josh !
@desmondferreira2386 Жыл бұрын
I watched the video in which Dylan Johnson comments the results of the wind tunnel experiment. He shows that some hydration packs, frame bags, and toptube bags actually make you faster at 35km/h. I would love to see more information about it
@johnnyloco11 Жыл бұрын
Josh is a legend
@sierrapolo Жыл бұрын
Amazing content, please keep it up
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Would you like more of these long nerdy video? 👀
@sierrapolo Жыл бұрын
Yes, of course. I think they do two things one you can actually drill down on some topics and gain some knowledge from it and two they create more questions for future videos, so not only do they help the viewers they can help you get more video ideas. I really enjoy when you get have guests like Josh, Inigo San Milan, and Nigel Mitchell addressing their area of expertise
@autisticlife Жыл бұрын
Oh my inner bike nerd has been nourished, bliss.
@peterslater7791 Жыл бұрын
FYI, it's canadians that say "deccles" - i've lived here nearly 20 years now and it still makes me chuckle.
@frankeeeej Жыл бұрын
If I was in any way working for a team partaking in Roubaix, I would absolutely advocate for the use of tireliners. You'd be a sucker if you didn't use them. And because of that, I would not want to make them mandatory, because I wouldn't want to take away a chance for my competitors to make a rookie mistake in not using them...
@darrengreen7906 Жыл бұрын
Been using Vittoria Airliners with my Conti GP5000S TR. Saved me a long walk home already, Although you have to ride relatively slowly, but at least you can still ride home.
@EduardoSalas Жыл бұрын
Josh is a legend.
@jarekp1437 Жыл бұрын
Literally today I applied Silca wax for a first time. It took me a bit of time as I indeed spent two hours on ultrasonic bath to clean my chain and cassette. Tomorrow will be a first ride and I have a big hopes.
@robbchastain3036 Жыл бұрын
Awesome show with Josh, Ollie, and Pierre and please do another show or two with Josh before he leaves the set. And I bailed on the Bike Vault and my life is so much better now. And Ollie can get all judgmental and fussy and be the biggest braggadocio about it and cool, all he needs now is a pair of those Oakley sunglasses that Cav has to wear to look cool. 😀
@Ruggine85 Жыл бұрын
20:28 this needs a deep dive from doctor Bridgewood
@jamesmckenzie3532 Жыл бұрын
Simple answer: For most average Joes, they should be concentrating on better efficiency and better training. Silica and other manufacturers make great products for maintaining your steed in best condition. That's way more important as well. I saw nasty drive trains that needed a deep clean and parts replacement that was avoidable through routine maintenance.
@user-cx2bk6pm2f Жыл бұрын
How is everyone confused about the decals on Manon's Ridley?? The technique is called airbrushing. Some paint indeed got on the decals, by design, to give them a slight tint matching the paint.
@edmundhodgson2572 Жыл бұрын
Agree with exmo. Ust, stans, 2-way fit have excellent tyre retension. My hookless rims seem like a 2000's ghetto tubeless solution, worse than clinchers
@PoorWorksmanship Жыл бұрын
Hey Ollie! I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to replace the cranks on my '21 Synapse with Easton. I think I need an EC bottom bracket, but will I need spacers as well?
@maxsievers8251 Жыл бұрын
Tyre pressure isn't really a field in which gains can be archived if you are not doing it wrong to begin with. With most cases there is quite a wide spectrum of tyre pressure with the same rolling resistance. The principle and idea behind a pneumatic tyre is that is just lowly pumped up so that it deflects on bumps. Otherwise we would fit solid rubber tyres on the rims. So 50 psi and more are ridiculous! The low limit is that the tyres cannot collapse - not even partially while cornering. With medium sized tyres as 32 to 42 mm the spectrum of acceptable tyre pressures is quite large while with larger tyres it tends to shrink as the maximum pressure gets lower but also the tendency to collapsing sidewalls increases. 42 mm is the optimal tyre width. Where do I get a 44.1 mm wide aero rim with a breaking surface in 650B?
@tomaruba Жыл бұрын
This was great
@jliho1 Жыл бұрын
Genial video! Deberían venir a la Ciudad de México a hacer un vídeo. La ciudad tiene una forma de moverse compleja y no es para todos. Sería un vídeo muy interesante.
@hankbohanon8087 Жыл бұрын
This was awesome..got a question based on the show..certainly understand if no one has time to answer. I have carbon rims that are 44 mm. The width is 27mm and I am running 28 conti 5000 with latex tubes. The roads in Chicago are pretty rough. Would it make sense to switch to 25 mm tires to gain the aero benefit, or am I gaining more watts with the slightly wider tire and reduced rolling resistance. Thanks for any suggestions..
@thomasdavidbassett483 Жыл бұрын
I have never had any problems with baggy cloths.
@gcntech Жыл бұрын
Baggy clothing can be great! Wear what makes you happy and keeps you riding 🙌
@illumeo Жыл бұрын
I was thinking this is like Sesame Street, Bert and Ernie are looking after this weeks guest (brought to you by the letter A for Aero). Then Josh says "One of these things is not like the other". Perfect.
@edwardnino9896 Жыл бұрын
Greetings, a show idea that popped in my head. How about testing if pulling up on pedals as well as pushing down will noticeable increase speed/power. You could train up for a few months with uppedaling then test pushing down only versus pulling and pushing concurrently. For me it seems to give a noticeable boost, especially while climbing or sprinting. Anyway sounds like GCN does science could try this.
@wspmjw Жыл бұрын
The road inserts are "Pool Noodles". Just smaller.
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