i bet the guy at ninja kiwi who gave a paragon you usually get realistically when your hero is already almost level 20 a xp boost for heroes felt like a genius

Questions, if there’s 40-50 feral hogs charging into my backyard while my children are playing, should I submerge my sub paragon or keep it above water?

I think the intention was, that you can get a low level Sub Paragon relatively cheap and early and use it to save up for a better paragon. You can submerge, so it doesn't steal pops, and then unsubmerge when you need the dps, and if the game goes really late, you still get a lot of use out of the submerged level 1 Sub Paragon. 10% faster Navarch Hooks, or Doomship Bombings is a lot of dps. Another interesting test, would be the comparison between a max level unsubmerged Siegecore , and a level 1 submerged Siegecore + the equivalent cost in Subs and buffs.

Submerging it allows other towers to build up pops for future paragons. So that's kind of cool. Buffing them in the process is a good bonus.

I think a good use for the submerge mod is to make the subs stronger in order to get more pops for a higher degree sub paragon,just saying

This is exactly what NK should be doing with all the paragons/new towers/heroes; they'll continue to refine the sub paragon, but it makes gameplay sooo much better when it's about strategy and synergy rather than pure dps.

Missed one scenario... you tested surface version without other towers help but tested submerged with other towers.. in late game you would have the water filled to the brim in both scenarios. I would like to know the difference when it is submerged or not with all the towers next to it in both cases.

I was very curious about this, so this was super helpful Great vid as always!

Honestly, the only problem I have with sub paragon is Final Strike. It should be stronger given the build-up

Thanks for the video, I thought I'd be conflicted on this but you explained it really thoroughly

if you lack space you go Pirate Ship paragon, of you have space you still go pirate ship paragon, cause the sub paragon is very much not good 🗿

You got the freeplay scenario wrong - 10% paragon cooldown isn't really that much because it only really buffs ace and wizard paragons. You'd never use sub army for freeplay damage, because sun avatars are still way stronger than subs with nautic siege core buff. Also the paragon is very good for high single target damage so for freeplay you should keep it attacking and place an energizer

you didn't test reactor spam so the video isn't valid

My idea is it's own cooldown (both before and after activating), gets reduced. That way he dosnt do nothing while waiting on the missiles (and gets more), but also dosnt do a whole lot of damage

Well many forget one thing, the 5× hero damage was compensated with an attack speed debuff, but I found out that the exception is Adora, more specifically her ball of light with gain the damage increase and no penalties, wich litterally pops fbads in the late 100s , so if you though the buff wasn't worth it, try again

I always wondered this thanks for the testing results

REALLY REALLY good video. Thank you so much!

For nautic siege core unsubmerged u shld add ice monkes and cripple moabs like in the other 2 set ups so the test isnt rigged

Also a big note is that while Submerged, you can still activate the Final Strike ability and it retains the buffs on your Submarines. This means you could have pushed a tiny bit further on those rounds, making Submerged overall the better choice for freeplay (assuming you have the space for at least 12+ subs)

Basically if you are using the sub paragon as your main source of damge DONT submerge but if your going in late game submerging it will be better since its damage doesn't really do much in late game and submerging it makes ability couldowns INCREDIBLY nice but overall pretty good paragon and does require strategy. And also nice vid👍

You missed the situation where you are using Brickell with limited water space (I'm talking about me, I do this. Hell I use her on maps without water)

Question: where did you get this idea? Cause I did a video on this weeks ago (the sub is better submerged, especially with Brickell)

NSC is the cheapest water option: attack mode. other paragons and lots of space for subs: submerge mode

Hi hbomb, I am that one guy talking on your twitch streams about a btd6 concept document. The document is finished. The document is 17 pages long, although for whatever reason, the letters are tiny so it would probably be several times longer if they were normal sized. Thanks!

cult of lamb ost goes so hard

"but they attack 30% slower" any and everyone who uses Benjamin: I see this as an absolute win.

What you forgot to test, was how well the unsubmerged sub paragon plus a bunch of subs does considering you left the sub to go solo. Considering if in that scenario it would be better to have it submerged or not, you would need to test to see which does better when surrounded by subs and support.

seeing how we are already getting 7x boosts means the village paragon is going to be insane

If they really want to incentiveize submerging they would add the property "extra cash generated by water towers in range" something you can't get from just having it unsubmerged.

You should also cosider boss events, where paragons deals bonus damage to the boss

Is that music from "Cult of the Lamb"?

cult of the lamb ost!

the cult of the lamb music is confusing my brain, great guide tho

I like the background music it reminds me of cult of the lamb good video by the way

perhaps

Very comprehensive, but there's one thing that was missing in the damage test: Boss damage. Over 80% of the time someone gets a paragon, it's for a boss challenge, and paragons have lots of extra boss damage which I don't think they pass on, so it isn't a completely fair test to just compare the damage in freeplay.

A degree 1 sub paragon buffing a bunch of subs around it is probably more cost-effective than a higher degree for things like boss events.

did you try testing d100 paragon unsubmerged AND max buffed subs?

I think they are definitely gonna have to buff this paragon. Or atleast change it

Nice Cult of the Lamb music

Can you do a test showing how much it actually helps?

nice so we got a new addition to the god boosting towers

What is the background music called?

Hay I can't join discord but can you add to your paragon Calculator were you can put the tear you want and it tells you the cheapest way to get it

Can you do a video for the best farming method in 2024

why didnt you use any debuffs for the sub paragon testing

Tbh I think they should make the Submerge buff effect buccaneers too. Ap dart spam isn't worth it when you can just unsubmerge it

does the paragon and energizer cooldown stack?

You forgot to take into effect having the paragon outside + having 5xx sub. In this case (assuming limited space) it'd be better to go for a non-submerged Paragon

I want to know for what reason would I use the ability if I can just not use it

Does this paragon buff the VTSG in any way? I guess not (other than the cooldown reduction, I mean)?

So now you have to have a sub paragon to godboost…

But does the submerged sub paragon grant its bonus boss damage to the monkeys in its radius? Or does that even matter?

Why dont get unsumerge and get the apc or the balistic spam

I feel like this test didnt actually answer the question. You tested the paragon lvl100, but it was by itself, obviously if you are going deep into free play you would maximize all your water space and fill out the rest with subs. Also, you should have tested a degree 100 submerged as the sub paragon does passive damage with its AEO attack similar to the energizer, which scales based on paragon level. I would love to see super late game on a map like lets say Spice Island, what is the stratagy here. Do you leave it submerged and let the buff apply to all your subs? or do you Leave it up so it also can attack? Is the sub strategy actually better than spamming boats?

Can you go a test where the sub paragon is up and has brickell buffs?

So pretty much only submerge it if you are in an elite boss event that has tons of water and bans all other paragons other than the sub

The test would be better if the submerged and unsubmerged both had support from other submarines and monkeys instead of just the submerged. Since both paragons cost the same, it doesnt make sense that only one tower gets massive support while the other is on its own. As a player you're going to support the submarine and not leave it on its own regardless of whether it's submerged or not. The experiment was extremely skewed in favor of the submerged.

i like to submerge it in boss event so my towers can get more pops and when the boss spawn i while un submerge it

Adora is really the only hero that benefits from the paragon in my opinion she already does so much damage but the fact that she also gets more damage from vtsg makes her crazy

Submerged also keeps the ability avaible

i feel like this could've been a short

It's not an even test to have an unsubmerged solo paragon vs a submerged paragon + a sub army. Give the unsubmerged paragon a sub army as well.

The best thing it does is reduce the Navarch cooldown.

I wonder if you are able to stack the hero xp buff on a hero from 3 more paragons 😂

You forgot the scenario when you have no water

the buff is honestly not worth it, no one uses heroes for main damage, no one uses submarines and you can use an energizer for ability cooldown reduce

I haven’t got the sub paragon but I thought you didn’t need to submerge it

Here's a 5th (totally serious) scenario. You're doing a test to see how far a single 2-0-4 sub can go

The unsubmeged test is not fair becuase it dosn't have the sub army and support towers. The test should be with the exact same setup as the submerged, just unsubmerged. This was comparing apples to oranges

I hope they buff this paragon.

Cult of the lamb music one love

How about no vtsg

Submarie submerge with Ezili HEX late game is a lot more BAD removal

The paragon:when I'm submerged I give heroes 3x pierce 5x damage 5x faster leveling But I reduce they're attack speed by 30% Benjamin:🗿

In other words never submerge it because most maps just don't have the water space.

Sorry I haven’t been paying attention there’s a sub paragon

Sub is so complicated

True answer: MICRO

👍👍👍👍👍👍🌴🌴🌴🌴

This paragon should've stayed in development it's underwhelming imo. And I don't think it needs to be as good as navarch or doomship. Also whose running subs over ninjas let alone sun temples on water.

Hello

69k views

..this was an unfair comparision. You are comparing a paragon with a paragon+shit ton of towers. A better comparision would be the buffing setup(so all BMs or APdarts) but you just change if the paragon is submerged or not. This will show what is better, the buffs applied or the damage dealt

This is an very uneven test. You should have all the support and subs besides the lv 100 up paragon sub. This is very uneven

1 view in 13 seconds? Smh Hbomb fell off hard

7 min ago and early also 10th comment

God I'm sick of Ninja Kiwi making such autistic balancing decisions. Paragons were a fucking mistake

I'd just recommend not using it. It's not worth the money or the effort, and its range is far too small for the paltry buffs it provides inside that range. I can't tell if it needs serious buffs or a total rework. It's just bad.

Here to stop the 9yr old from saying first.

Boat paragon better for no space whilst with none... Still L for a paragon like seriously 15 sec waiting time with no dmg is dumb and kinda bad whilst boat you just eat zomg passive and bad with activation.Seriously another engi paragon? Wow