I have a lot of guitars. I top wrapped 2 of them. I never noticed a difference because I never imagined there would be a difference. Thought never occurred to me. It’s pretty cool that you went through the effort of analyzing that

As always, whenever i question myself about any gimmicky things such as top wrap or not, you give me the most accurate answer. So glad i subscribed to your channel years ago.

Thanks for finally answering my questions about top wrapping my Les Paul. I'm keeping it the original way. I like your shirt.

Incredibly interesting! Thank you for putting this out!

Any note is technically the same given tension when at rest, top-wrapped or not. Strings are more compliant with top-wrapping because slightly more overall string length. More give and stretch there so it translates to a little more in the main string area, thus it feels like less 'tension' as it bends a bit easier. But you also have to bend more distance to reach the increased tension to hit the next note...as tension for every note at rest remains the same. So it's a combination of things that translates into feel. It's more distance to bend, but less felt resistance. Kind of like a difference in shock absorption, like a soft ride with more bounce compared to a harder, stiffer ride.

You need to wear a green cap when doing the test due to green and gravity both starting with the letter G, which is also what guitar starts with. That is science, pal, can't avoid it.

Brilliant Video. Keep them coming.

very instructive test thank you very much mate, keep on rocking

Love the topic!

Yep, I’m goin there!

Thank you for clearing this up. I just unboxed my new Gibson Les Paul Gold top. I've been seeing tons of "fixes" for this guitar and really seem to know your shtuff!

Never heard about the bending. Minimizing the breakangle on either end puts less downward force at the nut or bridge. The less down force, the less friction and the less friction, the less it goes out of tune. Same reason people lube the ends. The other notable benefit is the E string is less likely to snap from the bridge cutting into it. I just unscrew the tail piece so it sticks up and get the same effect.

Good enuf for me!! I saw it with my own eyes. Cause and effect is the why of it. I'll be sticking with the not rapping. Thank you for taking the time to do this!

I think I might take you up on your offer and do a different version of this test. Fascinating!

Great video and explanation!!

That's awesome!! Thanks for sharing that info!! 🙏✨👏

As you rightly say: when bent (or picked or whatever), the whole string moves and tenses. Not just between saddle and nut, but end to end. So two things happen here: as you note, more friction, and also a greater overall length of string to stretch, ergo more pressure required. By wrapping the string around the stopbar, you basically add .75 to 1 inch of string or so. Give or take: as much as needed to essentially eliminate the benefit of the Les Paul's shorter scale length in terms of ease of bending compared to a Strat or Tele. And by the way, the exact same thing happens on the other end, which is why you should be careful how much string you wind onto the tuning machine. The fewer the turns, the shorter the string, the easier to stretch out, the better the tuning stability, and the easier the bends. So actually for the comparison to be accurate in your experiment, the string should be would to the same number of turns on the machine head, but as a seasoned pro you probably got that right anyway. As far as I'm concerned, I put locking tuners wherever I can, there's no better way to limit excessive string length headstock side. Now from the above, there's also a conclusion to be drawn as to what a very legit reason to top wrap a Les Paul could be: players who usually play 25.5 in scale length guitars and only pick up a 24.75 in for the occasional song or two may prefer having tenser strings on the Les Paul while using the same string gauge, so that it feels more like their usual Strat or Tele. Where that really matters is when you play a lot of pre-bent notes. Because then you bend to pitch not by ear but by muscle memory, so you need to know in advance how much pressure to apply. If you train on a Strat and then you apply the same pressure on a Les Paul, your pre-bend will go sharp. Top wrapping is one way to compensate for that. But frankly, that's still a lot of hair splitting in the land of guitar nerdom. I really don't know that Strat-bound monster benders like David Gilmour or Mark Knopfler ever top wrapped their Les Pauls. We should all just get out there and play the damn thing, wrapped whichever way we like. Rock on!

Very interesting video, love stuff like this 🤘

Fascinating. The reason I top wrapped was in an effort to increase tuning stability by keeping the string in more of a straight line. I want to try raising the tailpiece and see what happens.

Informative. Thanks!

Interesting video thanks for posting 👍I top wrap my guitars that don’t have anchor bushings so the bridge posts don’t loosen and bend from too much downward tension over time, this also allows me to clamp the stop tailpiece down closer on the body. Some people coming from longer scale length guitars like the added tension and it rings a little differently with the added string length.

Cool video and pretty interesting results. I still top wrap for break angle though.

Thank you, Dylan. I was going to top wrap on my next string change. Not now

I top-wrapped my Les Paul once. I couldn't go two days before I had to re-string it the regular way again. I really didn't like how it felt top-wrapped. I do like to raise the tailpiece a little bit, it's subtle, but I think it plays better that way than all the way down. Interesting experiment, thanks, Dylan!

YOU ANSWER RIGHT 👌 Thank you 💙 I've being search ling time for the right thing. ....and THIS particular way to find it. The next step is to know if (with same strings) "Slim Taper" vs "Rounded" have exactly the same tension 🙏😉 That's my principal curiosity now...

Interesting! If it is a purely string length thing I would expect the same effect for a top loaded versus string-through body telecaster. Should be easy to verify using a wilkinson ashtray bridge.

Ps . It makes no real difference , except for me ,resting my palm on the saddle it helps me to know what string I’m going after. I keep my eyes closed a lot so I call it playing by brail.

Interesting! Thanks 😎

Thanx for taking the time to do this demo. One advantage of top wrapping, only for a strong handed player, would be a wider axis for adding finger vibrato to a bended note and also finding in between notes that are difficult to nail. Maybe this information would be useful to some players with strong hands.

Clinches it for me, Thanks for the test.

Thanks for doing this test the results are interesting and a little surprising. I did top wrap my LP at one time but couldn't honestly say it felt easier to bend. So I went back to the normal bridge arrangement. One thing for sure though if you are looking for really obvious decrease in string tension that really does make string bending more comfortable then tune down. Even a semitone makes a noticeable difference, I settled on a tone which feels really comfortable to my rather thin fingers. Combine that with light strings for example as Tony Iommi does and it will make a big difference.

Thanks!

Hi Dylan, I've been watching your channel for a while now. I appreciate the information you put out in your vids. My 1st Gibson was also the SG Jr. But I bought mine a year before you got yours. I bought mine because it was light as a feather, and rang with resonance unplugged, I didn't even plug it in before I bought it because of this. I do wish it had a chunkier neck, I just love fat necks, the Warmoth boat neck is one of my faves. As far as top wrapping, I don't do it just because I don't want to mark up my tail piece. Oh my lp is an Epiphone TV special marked Epiphone limited edition custom shop, It's still a Chinese Epiphone, it has no binding on the neck and it has those mini pots. I planned on replacing the pickups and pots, but never did because it actually sounds great. Oh yeah back to top wrapping, your test was interesting, I think my SG Jr with wrap around bridge seems like it takes more force then my other guitars to bend the note a whole step, I usually use 10's, but bought some 9and a half to try next time I change the strings. Peace... Jim

I do it, because I like the tailpiece down on the deck, just like the original Les Paul were before the adjustable bridges and saddles came into play. It sounds good to me and feels okay. I use 8 - 8.5 gauge strings.

Hi Dylan, while I admire your approach, my experience has shown me the opposite conclusion. I tried top wrapping for deeper resonance and saw improvement EVERY time, what sold me on top wrapping was the “butter” it added to string bends. The FEEL became greatly smoother on EVERY test Les Paul and SG that I own. Some aspects of playing go beyond raw science I guess…. Lol ….Thank you for your service…. LMAO😊

Hi Dylan. Your test is accurate and makes perfect sense. Your string length is increased by around 3/4 of an inch on a wrap, so this also increases the floating string mass, hence extended movement to achive a full note bend. You are also correct that wrapping over the bridge changes the node point to the upper - rear portion of the bridge creating a levered angle on the rear side of the bridge bolts. This does introduce stress on the Bridge Bolt base, and in extreme circumstances, causes the threaded base to lift away from the nbody. I have no clue how this trend started, I did hear one story that Frank Zappa did it to counteract sympathetic string-ring but I have never encountered that anomoly on a Lespaul in that area between the saddle & the bridge. My theory is that maybe guitarists that changed from say a Strat which has a longer scale length to a shorter scale length such as the Lespaul did this to prevent over bending! Great video!

I replaced my stop tailpiece with a Gibson TP6 on my LPX 34yrs ago so I'm good!

thanks for the effort,this sounds similar to people claiming that angled claw in a strat gives you equal tension and better stability....

Great approach, as objective as possible! Very interesting. I top wrap only because (from my experience) it helps me breaking less strings over the saddles. Never actually felt differences in tone or feel!

I have 2 les paul std, one top-wrapped, one not. The reason I top-wrapped one is that the neck set angle is higher than the other, so the strings hit the back of the bridge before they reach the saddles, and I have to raise the tail piece so high that I'm worried it doesn't have enough threads in the base studs and may damage the guitar. That's one common reason to do it. Interesting finding about tension -nice one!

I top wrap my wound strings on my Les Paul because I actually found that I perceived the hybrid slinkies I use to feel a little tighter that way, I also like to rest my hand on the strings behind the saddles for picking on the low strings and find this more comfortable.

What I notice from play Les Paul guitar and even Explorer! I stop toprap those because I did brake more strings as I did... And I fix the issue I hade the string hangup on the EBR1 so I put washers on the bolt to my tailpice and tight it to the body to achieve more and longer sustain! And it did work awesome ! Sesns 30 your back I no longer plays Gibson but that my help people forward on... Best regards from Sweden 🇸🇪

That is a suprise , thank you for that test.

Tuning stability and I just think it looks cool

I knew exactly this would be the result although I didn't expect the difference would be so huge. It is very huge in the case of the reverse Strat headstock which is much, much, much more easy to bend (the plain strings I mean), because of the shorter lenght to the tuner post. The reason (in the case of the top wrap and normal strat headstock) is that you need the force to stretch the vibrating portion of the string but then you need extra force to stretch the additional inches of string that are at the other side of the scale lenght. Only imagine that your guitar has a 3m long headstock and a 3m long tailpiece, then you would need to stretch the string a lot further (even off the fretboard) to achieve maybe just a semitone bend.

Top wrapping is for Heavy-Handed players, like myself. I Top wrap because I feel like I bend chords (especially the D) out of shape less. Also I seem to be more accurate with my bends when Top Wrapped. The tension demo explains it for me. Also I started as an acoustic player, so maybe its a more natural break angel/tension feel for us Heavy Handed ppl. :) Thank again....you videos Always teach me so much.

I never really knew anyone thought it made differences like that, I started doing it some time ago because I thought it looked cool.

I play in D standard tuning so I can use some extra tension to keep the action low without using thicker strings.

Your shirt is a winner.

great test! but the feeling is all about the angle... top wrap or not, is the angle that make it light or hard to bend...

Thank you for the info. I was about tp top wrap my Gibson, i wont to that, makes sense more friction will cause more force to bend the strings.

@DylanTalksTone It's all about the ratio of scale vs. total string length. The longer the string the higher the string tension to get it in tune, but with the scale length being a constant this means higher string tension. And it doesn't make the guitar worse, it just makes it different. With the higher string tension when top wraping you should be able to lower the bridge for lower action without fret buzz.

Hey Dylan ... I appreciate the videos man ... just an FYI ... I heard that top wrap increases sustain. I purchased a Gibson smoke house a few years back and was disappointed that it just didn't play as well as expected for a 2000$ guitar. I noticed that the tail piece was as high as it would go and that the bridge would not go any lower. I also noticed a very sharp break angle and some of the strings were even touching the back side of the bridge. It was ... as I am aware of now ... just a good example of the poor quality issues Gibson had gone through at that time. That's when I finally decided that if I want my guitars to sound and play the way I want then I would have to learn how to set them up myself. since I couldn't make the adjustments to reduce the break angle by adjusting the bridge or tail piece I decided to over wrap. I timed the sustain before making the change and again after over wrapping. It made a substantial difference in sustain. I didn't notice any difference in playability other than that although I am sure it does make a bit of difference. More so now that I have seen your video. Thank you.

Thanks for this video! I had to subscribe just because of your shirt! :) Seriously though, I just wanted to find out what the deal was with top-wrapping, just recently saw this and wondered why. I think it's just for the "cool factor", I'll stick with the traditional string setup, thanks again!

Wow! That surprises me. I know I like the ‘feel’ of top wrap better. It must be the amount of movement of the string that makes it feel slinkier.

Great test. I speculate that this might be the case because top wrapping increases the overall string length between the anchor points. On a bend your bending a longer string than a through tailpiece setup - since the strings must stretch over the tailpiece. That may account for more bend to reach the same pitch. If that's true I expect the results would be more pronounced on a guitar with a trapeze or Bigsby tailpiece, which increased overall string length even more.

I think less pressure/longer way to bend contributes to better playing feel, even of it‘s theoretically not easier or more efficient. Regular strung guitars with the tailpiece all the way down sound a little dead to me sometimes. Raising the tailpiece (or topwrapping) usually results in a positive change.

THEY JUST IMAGINE IT TUNEING IS UNSTABLE AS WELL THANKS DYLAN FOR PROVING THIS. PLAYING WITH 10S ANYWAY

String is longer when top wrapping. Longer string means there is more string to stretch to get to a specific pitch.

Thx so much 💪🏻, maybe a lp with topwrapping has slinky strings but no for bends and not sound the same too. I go with the "normal" way ✌🏼🙏

makes sense! the old-timey hollow body electric set up where the tail piece is like a mile away from the bridge makes the strings super hard to bend right? kind of crazy that top wrapping makes a 1/4 pound difference in this test though.

very interesting. i was just about to top wrap too, lol. nope! thanks!

Great video, so now needn`t try wrap around🎶🎸

I really like how you controlled the experiment and used some comon items to use actual measured results.... with that said its not just break angle they also reference the string being technical a little longer helps with the bending.... That is what "they say" like the J. Page double need with the tail peices set way back on the guitar... again just the other thing "they say"

I think the next test should be the same for 9s vs 10s. It might give fun results. For this video, I believe the distance the top wrap moved is the result of less tension on the string, meaning distance isn’t correlated to tension. So I predict that on a 9s vs 10s test, the distance you are measuring will result in the similar results in this video. But you will certainly feel that 9s are obviously easier to bend than 10s even though the distance on the 9s will be more than 10s.

I remember Zakk Wylde saying the same thing about top wrapping. I found the same thing with it. Since Les Paul's have the shorter scale length I feel like you can get decent tension with lighter strings so that's why I like it.

I top wrap the bottom 3 strings E, A, and D for a flatter surface to rest my palm on (I normally us Floyd Rose Trems) plus I feel they sustain better, and use regular mounting for the top strings for more sustain with a better break angle. I don't bend the bottom 3 as radically as I do the top.

After strings are broke in a difference in bending is noticed. 11’s top wrapped and not too much bridge angle give me more control of the bend, less over bend. With 10’s not top wrapped more bridge angle is needed. This is my playing ability and area of choice with Dadario strings.

Hey Dylan, love the shirt! Weed is a very beautiful place at the base of the volcano! Mt. Shasta will hopefully stay dormant ;) Bob in Germany... formerly of California.

the reason I've heard of doing it is because of the break angle touching the rear of the the saddle bridge. but it does take tesion away, i've done it both ways and felt it. i was using 12-52 strings also.....

Very interesting

Great demo. This has been my experience as well. I don't have big hands, so when it becomes harder to bend, it's very noticeable to me. I tried top wrapping to match the break angle with the nut and it took more effort to play. I'm going back to slamming the tailpiece down in maybe too weeks -- I want to give it sometime to see if there are any hidden benefits that I'm not noticing. 08:21 One thing I'd like to point out in your demo that actually makes your point stronger is this part: the string has to travel farther across the fingerboard to reach the same pitch. However, in this part, you are only hooking/measuring ONE string. In reality, most of the players pushes ALL the adjacent strings. So if you have travel more across, you are also bending the adjacent strings MORE, so it'd be even harder.

34 seconds in....I can tell you it's bullshit. I do love that you did this. I love your honesty as well.

That's true! I just did the same to my SG because I wanted the tail piece to touch the body. I heard that it increaces sustain, slinky strings and duane allman, joe b and others do it too but it was just awful! Really hard to play and the break angle wasnt even too drastical. I wont do it anymore. I also noticed that the tone of my guit was darker and I didnt like it.

Probably what this means is with top wrapping the same amount of displacement across the fingerboard from the rest position of the string produces less change in pitch. That also means you can press down the strings harder/softer while holding a chord without changing the pitch of the notes as much.I guess you would call that being slinky? Then, because you need to displace the strings more to reach the tension (pitch) of a full or half bend, you need to exert more force vertically, that is simple geometry given that for the same note the tension along the string will be the same. I will try top wrapping my LP at some point just because the neck angle is large on mine, and with my choice of action the tailpiece is too high and I can see a bit of unpainted wood around the screws (below the surface of course), which I would prefer not to see. However, considering there is at least one downside, which is scratching the top of the tailpiece, I don't know if I will keep it top wrapped for long.

You've changed the effective distace to your anchor point. Going around is longer. You have to stretch more string, requiring more energy, to get the same pitch deflection. BTW, love the ska track you're playing underneath.

Interesting! I never top wrapped strings, but rather increased the tailpiece height. I didn't really noticed any change in slinkyness however.' I just thought lowering the string tension would prevent the risk of bridge collapse.

Try an experiment with the stop piece in different positions. I'd be very curious to know if that really makes a difference.

I have a Fender Traveler. The tuners are in the middle of the body and all the strings wrap a big roller at the bottom. Even with low action it is a pig. I think it is because of the overall stretch from the string on the south side of the bridge. Think about it this way, the longer the overall length of the string is the tighter you have to make the string to get pitch. I think the best reason is the wrap over makes the strings a tad longer and it is apparent enough to add a touch of pressure to stretch notes....the string is actually stretched a little tighter because of the overall length of the string....or...your guess is as good as mine....hehe

I overwrap my SG was for comfort rather then tone not that I noticed any difference in tone or bending although bendy was more noticeable after a guitar tech did a full setup for me. Oh the comfort is for my picking hand 🖐

I'm surprised, I would have thought the longer the string from start to stop, the easier it would bend. And like you said, 150 grams can not be error. Very interesting video. One of my customers over wraps his les paul for bending. Maybe it's the further bend that makes it feel easier.

My last string change I top wrapped and lowered the tailpiece. My junior is top wrapped and my studio matches. Looks better.

So, by top wrapping, and because the strings now have to go over the hump in the tailpiece, you've effectively made the string longer, so it makes absolute sense that a little more length would cause you to have to bend the string more to raise the pitch a full step. Good experiment.

I thread the strings in the normal way but wrap the strings under the bridge then over the top so the winded bit of string at the ball end isnt being stressed.

I top wrap my Gibson SG because when strung in the conventional manner the strings contact the back edge of the bridge putting pressure on it which will eventually bend the bridge posts forward. That is what happened to an old GoldTop of mine and I had to replace the entire bridge assembly.

Cool Video. made me check the tailpiece on my one les paul style guitar (a Charvel). realized i put a new setup on it for Drop C, heavier strings, intonated it, but didn't check the tailpiece height! sure enough, every string is hitting the bridge before getting to the saddle. whoops! Also made me take a good look at my BC Rich Bich with a single piece hard-tail like Kahler bridge that is Designed for the strings to wrap around. As i suspected the entire piece is rounded, so the string touches no edges what so ever. if anyone ever wants to see what a perfect bridge looks like, look at any Kahler bridge ever.

Not a top wrapper, but a great video to get the discussion going. 👍

I've been a player since the late 60s. I was having a discussion with another les paul owner about top wrapping the strings. I believed that it while changing the break angle would make the string easier to bend. Thanks to your video and a few others, I will not be top wrapping the strings on my R0 Les Paul. All my best to you.

I think top wrap helps strings to keep clear from touching to back end of the bridge when the tailpiece is very low or when the bridge has to be high due to angle of the neck to the body.

I only top wrapped on my firebird so the angle of string from tailpiece to bridge wouldn't be as steep. also it raised thr action a bit without having to raise the screws in the tailpiece

Would you please do a video comparing a Telecaster that can also be toploaded and give your thoughts and impressions ❓Thanks.

thanks for your video it s very well done. i have my theory which means probably nothing, that is: with tw the string is looser though it is the same tuning as non tw. with non tw the string is kind of really tight, when bending you dont have to go very far up because it is already tense. so it goes up in pitch real fast when non tw the string is loose so you need to go further up when bending . it goes up to pitch a bit slower because there was less tension right from the start please be free to comment and correct me because i know nothing from nothing

This is how I see it... When we stretch strings to raise the pitch we are stretching from the ball end to where the string terminates at the tuning machine. We are stretching the bit of the string that is wrapped around the tuning machine so more wraps around the tuning machine has a similar effect as top wrapping at the tailpiece. In order to reach a specific pitch we have to increase the tension by a specific percentage of the total length of the string - which is why the string had to be pulled farther with the top wrap. Some Jazz guitars, including the Ibanez GB10, have an adjustable tailpiece which changes the total length of the strings (in the case of the GB10, its three at a time). This feature is used to adjust the string tension. I tried top wrapping once, years ago, and abandoned it for two reasons - the wrap at the ball end of the string exposed the end of the string which cut into my palm and scratched the top of the tailpiece. A 335 with a stop tailpiece feels different than a 335 with a trapeze - again, because the longer string length requires more of a bend to reach a specific pitch. Locking tuners also make a difference because there is no 'wrap' at the tuning peg.

I top wrap because I like to have the stop bar all the way down on the body of the guitar for sustain. It has nothing to do with making the strings feel slinky or anything like that. Running the strings thru the stop bar results in a string angle that breaks not only on the saddles but on the back edge (stop bar side) of the bridge too. The string angle with top wrapping allows me to screw the stop bar all the way down without the strings making contact with both the saddles and the bridge's edge.

Hi. Ss far as I know, the main reason for top wrapping is not to reduce effort while bendind, but rather to teduce friction at the bridge, due to wider break angle of the string and hence reduce or prevent tuning issues.

Overall string length is the reason for more stretch needed. The "friction point" as mentioned on top of the tail piece isn't a stop. Also, a fretted string (not demo'ed) might not need an unreasonable amount of travel distance to reach the desired pitch. Scientifically? Well... it seems you need to stretch the string further to achieve the desired pitch. So, you are negating the benefit of a loose string by having to stretch the string more. What might be a benefit? Maybe, the "sweet spot" harmonic grows a bit wider with a longer string?

I heard you get better sustain with Top Wrapping not just better action if you screw the tail piece right down to contact the body. Makes sense to me.

I have noticed on my Gibson's that the ones that I top wrap feel better to me then they did with it standard set up. my Hammer has a less break angle and feels great. top wrapping is a different way of easing the break angle. also I have three guitars with Bigsby trems which have much less break angle then the stop bars. and also Joe Bonamassa is a promoter of top wrapping.

My theory about top wrapping is that, back in the day, someone who was familiar with the Junior/Special/'54 Goldtop style wrap bridge got an upgrade and wasn't sure how to string it. Wrapped it out of habit. Other people saw this and speculated, "why is it wrapped like a Junior? Does it provide more sustain? Easier bends?" All the while, it was just someone confusing the new abr1 & tailpiece with the old wrap bridge

What about tuning stability? It seems to me that the sharper angle at the bridge, the more tendency for the string to hang up in the bridge peice slots and cause tuning issues. By decreasing the angle the string has less tension and can slide more easily across the bridge piece slot. On my main guitar - a '99 Les Paul hollowbody the tail piece studs are quite loose and wobbly when not screwed down tight to the body, therefore, top wrapping seemed like the ideal solution to get a get a better angle at bridge, so the strings not are hitting the back of the bridge AND there no issues with a wobbly tail piece. I also *subjectively* thought it felt a bit better. I'm a 50+ year pro player and have played this guitar for 20 years with the same gauge strings, so I do know how it feels.