Exploring a New Approach to Realistic Lighting: Radiance Cascades

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SimonDev

SimonDev

9 күн бұрын

Radiance Cascades are an innovative solution to global illumination from the devs of Path of Exile 2. Let's explore and implement their approach.
Gamedev Courses: simondev.io
Support me on Patreon: / simondevyt
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Instagram: / beer_and_code
Twitter: / iced_coffee_dev
In this video, we look through the recent Radiance Cascades paper from the devs of Path of Exile 2, explore the ideas behind their approach, and implement something similar.
Reference:
Paper: drive.google.com/file/d/1L6v1...
Discord: / discord
Other great explanations:
GM Shaders: mini.gmshaders.com/p/radiance...
Tmpvar: tmpvar.com/poc/radiance-casca...

Пікірлер: 238
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
Some additional links from the video. Also, working discord link: Discord: graphics-programming.org/ RC Experimental Testbed: www.shadertoy.com/view/4ctXD8
8 күн бұрын
I never thought I'd see Radiance Cascades, let alone create one!
@DexterLolInd
@DexterLolInd 8 күн бұрын
Now now, Simon doesn't need to hear all this. He's a highly trained professional. We've assured the PoE2 team NOTHING will go wrong.
@RingingResonance
@RingingResonance 8 күн бұрын
Alright. Let's let him in.
@Bloom_HD
@Bloom_HD 8 күн бұрын
We've just been informed that the lightbulb is ready, Simon. It should be coming up to you at any moment
@Takyodor2
@Takyodor2 8 күн бұрын
_panics in scientist_
@Mad3011
@Mad3011 8 күн бұрын
If you would be so good as to climb up and start the compilers. We can bring the Global Illumination Spectrometer to eighty fps and hold it there until the release date arrives.
@Alexander_Sannikov
@Alexander_Sannikov 8 күн бұрын
I knew those PoE2 devs were up to something!
@qwfp
@qwfp 8 күн бұрын
Yeah, they are a talented bunch!
@HuzMS
@HuzMS 8 күн бұрын
Great work.
@PileOPoop1
@PileOPoop1 8 күн бұрын
It's him! He's the PoE2 dev!
@F1NEk
@F1NEk 8 күн бұрын
The man, the MYTH, THE LEGEND
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
They're smart cookies, definitely :)
@AlexPechenka
@AlexPechenka 5 күн бұрын
Gordon doesn't need to hear all this, he's a highly trained professional!
@techpriest4787
@techpriest4787 3 күн бұрын
Make Half-Life great again.
@rrrfrdd4497
@rrrfrdd4497 7 күн бұрын
The Penumbra Condition sounds like a nice title for a game
@MaDmanEXE
@MaDmanEXE 9 күн бұрын
So this approach, but for audio, would be called a "resonance cascade"?
@Blockbuster2033
@Blockbuster2033 8 күн бұрын
Isn't that what happened in Half-Life?
@xXUnhingedDevXx
@xXUnhingedDevXx 8 күн бұрын
Gordon doesn't need to hear all this, he's a highly trained professional
@peteruelimaa4973
@peteruelimaa4973 8 күн бұрын
Prepare for unforseen consequences.
@fonesrphunny7242
@fonesrphunny7242 8 күн бұрын
As someone doing audio stuff, I can't imagine why you'd ever want a resonance cascade anywhere.
@JacobSmith-ts2gq
@JacobSmith-ts2gq 8 күн бұрын
@@fonesrphunny7242 if implemented properly it might be able to be used as a spatial acceleration structure for spatial audio, example: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g5mHatBhtrm8XWw.html though I'm not sure if it would be better quality or more perfomant than existing techniques.
@radspiderjackson
@radspiderjackson 8 күн бұрын
That one statement @ 2:08 is precisely why I love this channel. Although i cant deny how much i need the maths in my life
@T55sArt
@T55sArt 8 күн бұрын
frrrr tho, math so unreadable
@TimHoekstra
@TimHoekstra 8 күн бұрын
The original presentation by alexander for those that are interested: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ith4e7eC1tOlkYE.html
@SuboptimalEng
@SuboptimalEng 8 күн бұрын
What’s next, Radiance Cascading Style Sheets?!
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
Quick, contact the Chrome devs!
@dantesp7557
@dantesp7557 8 күн бұрын
LMAO XD
@plaintext7288
@plaintext7288 8 күн бұрын
A wild CSS framework has appeared!
@theftking
@theftking 8 күн бұрын
"Most of us are programmers, not math people." -> that's a great quote.
@bunnybreaker
@bunnybreaker 8 күн бұрын
Exactly. I program so the computer can do the maths I don't understand 😅
@DrunkGeko
@DrunkGeko 8 күн бұрын
Ever since Exilecon i've been waiting for someone to do a nice video breakdown of Radiance Cascades. I can see it becoming a mainstream technique in the upcoming years, so much potential
@coreC..
@coreC.. 8 күн бұрын
It all makes so much sense when you explain and show it to us. Without your video, i would get lost in "paper" articles with just a few images. Scrolling through equations and getting familiar with new terms. Thanks for another great video SimonDev. 👍
@simondev758
@simondev758 7 күн бұрын
Papers are always hard to read (for me).
@JeanOJesus
@JeanOJesus 9 күн бұрын
This channel is a gold mine. Thank you.
@eksleja7334
@eksleja7334 8 күн бұрын
Seeing you refrence Aleksander Sannikovs paper is not something I was expecting :O
@Definitely_a_Fox
@Definitely_a_Fox 8 күн бұрын
Looking through the comments, and I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thought the title said "Resonance Cascade"
@ali32bit42
@ali32bit42 8 күн бұрын
lets hope to see this implemented in some open source engines. and especially blender. this could be really good tech to at least preview renders.
@mxcop
@mxcop 9 күн бұрын
Nice animations, and intuitive explanations, great video! And thanks for consulting & mentioning the community at the end :D
@stratos2
@stratos2 8 күн бұрын
Such an intuitive explanation of a super cool rendering method. Awesome work! The only thing I would have loved to see more detail is the actual implementation, especially: How does a point on the screen actually get it's value? A raycast I assume? how does the raycast avoid having to loop over every light source in the image to find a collision? Also, is your explanation only valid in 2d, would it map into 3d by projecting all the points onto the nearest surface, or would it need a 3d matrix of points everywhere? Some of this could have perhaps been clarified by a brief section detailing where this method can be used and where it can not be used as presented. Other than these nitpicks / curious questions though, excellent intuitive explanation!
@Alexander_Sannikov
@Alexander_Sannikov 8 күн бұрын
RC is compatible with any technique of casting rays: SDF raymarching, voxel tracing, etc. Even RTX, I guess. PoE2 uses just a constant step per-pixel screenspace raymarching. As for 3d, I suggest you read the paper, because there's a lot of nuances: you can make full-on 3d grid of radiance probes, 2.5d screenspace probes with screenspace intervals, 2.5d screenspace probes with world intervals, etc.
@andreanderson626
@andreanderson626 8 күн бұрын
I always know you're going to make me understand something new in the way that I need it to understand it. I think we speak the same exact language; like a mixture of nothing-is-new-just-another-rehashed-version-of-the-same-stuff-we-already-did, and developer-that-wants-his-code-to-run-as-fast-as-possible. Thank you. Every time. Thank you for speaking my language.
@simondev758
@simondev758 7 күн бұрын
You're welcome!
@tchlux
@tchlux 2 күн бұрын
This is really beautiful! Well done.
@-dafhatas-6519
@-dafhatas-6519 3 күн бұрын
I love the fact that the explanations in this video are really easy to understand,great video!
@sagielevy
@sagielevy 7 күн бұрын
This is really cool. Thanks for explaining it in an easy to understand manner!
@GroverAU
@GroverAU 8 күн бұрын
Excellent presentation. Thank you!
@iestynne
@iestynne 2 күн бұрын
Thanks for helping give this awesome paper wider visibility! It's a fantastic insight.
@Mikee512
@Mikee512 8 күн бұрын
Lowkey wanna suggest that the term that comes after "umbra, penumbra" should be called "bruh."
@LePtitPop
@LePtitPop 8 күн бұрын
Thank you so much for sharing this knowledge! Super interesting video, as always
@TimothySolomon
@TimothySolomon 3 күн бұрын
This is the answer I was looking for. Thank you for this fracking awesome video. You sir are appreciated.
@BenjaminMastripolito
@BenjaminMastripolito Күн бұрын
for those curious, cem yuksel has a series of graphics videos that are very easy to understand, including a really intuitive explanation of the rendering equation. he does things very visually
@Zolbat
@Zolbat 8 күн бұрын
Thanks so much for the website, it's so cool!
@Snowdrama
@Snowdrama 8 күн бұрын
So what it's sounding like is multiple resolutions of like real time light probes? You create a fixed grid of probes, and then occasionally precompute the incoming light from different directions for each point, and then when determining the light of any point, you interpolate the light between the points, for each "cascade" of light and then combine them together? At least that's what I'm gathering. This way for each point you're only computing the light from the nearest few cascade points not the whole scene
@Alexander_Sannikov
@Alexander_Sannikov 8 күн бұрын
the most important point is that probes don't store radiance (rays that start at the probe), they store radiance intervals (rays that start at a certain distance away from the probe and connect into a continuous ray).
@hamzzashaffi
@hamzzashaffi 8 күн бұрын
Thank you so much for sharing your valuable knowledge! :)
@SweeperFlies
@SweeperFlies 7 күн бұрын
Okay…I’m on my fourth watch of this and I can feel myself *slowwwwwly* getting to grips with it, but even with a background in physics and maths (my degrees are in physics and electronic engineering) and a long career as a systems architect, I’ll be honest: I’m struggling. It’s a testament both to the PoE developers for the original idea and to Simon (who I follow) that this is penetrating my thick skull at all. Definitely not for the faint of heart but it’s worth watching over and over until it clicks because the end result is fucking gorgeous. Thanks Simon (aka Bob from Bobs Burgers) ❤️
@towaii
@towaii 8 күн бұрын
oh man i'm so hype to have bob belcher explain new and exciting graphics techniques to me
@cerilious
@cerilious 6 күн бұрын
Amazing video. Thanks Simon.
@iwsfg
@iwsfg 8 күн бұрын
the legend is back with a new upload!
@marcosfraguela
@marcosfraguela 8 күн бұрын
I've really liked the demo! If you add the possibility to upload an image from wich generate the lights/shadows, and the posibility to change the backgound, you can sell it/launch it as a tool for graphic designers!
@Viola-iu1ys
@Viola-iu1ys 4 күн бұрын
thanks for the laughter and learning in every video!
@codesafariDev
@codesafariDev 8 күн бұрын
Crazy good idea and so simple in a way.
@Alexander_Sannikov
@Alexander_Sannikov 8 күн бұрын
I really doubted if I should write the paper because of how obvious it seemed.
@zxcaaq
@zxcaaq 8 күн бұрын
amazing video!
@cynth4941
@cynth4941 8 күн бұрын
13:18 Is it really live on your website? I don't see it, only Grass, Cloud, FPS Game and Minecraft projects.
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
Yeah some people seem to be getting older versions, let me know if it's still not showing up.
@oscarelenius4801
@oscarelenius4801 8 күн бұрын
@@simondev758 didnt show up a minute ago but now it works, feels laggy but impressive either way
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
@@oscarelenius4801 Yeah, it's a stock implementation, with no optimizations whatsoever heh.
@penguino118
@penguino118 8 күн бұрын
​@@simondev758Might be a caching issue? Reloading with ctrl + f5 might work
@nathanfranck5822
@nathanfranck5822 7 күн бұрын
I love this lighting - definitely an inspiration towards trying new things - you never know what might work!
@kocastlew2768
@kocastlew2768 Күн бұрын
I feel like this is what CS2 uses for its lighting probes. If you look at the debug menu, you can see the transition from more sparse probes to more dense probes depending on some conditions. I like computer graphics but hate programming so I wouldn’t know tho.
@JoeTheis
@JoeTheis 8 күн бұрын
Great to see the crazy graphics devs at GGG getting some love!
@kekitech
@kekitech 8 күн бұрын
Commenting mainly for the algorithm, but thank you for the video, please keep it up!
@Tobiky
@Tobiky 8 күн бұрын
Hurray, new video!
@spr_
@spr_ 8 күн бұрын
GorDon doesn' need to hear all this, he'sa highly trained propfessional. We've assurdly administrated that nothing-will-go-wrong.
@MarcosRVNeves
@MarcosRVNeves 8 күн бұрын
I started creating my own game engine to learn how it works behind the scenes, all because of your videos. But since I only know JavaScript, I felt intimidated by WebGL and did everything in context2D. Your video on spatial hash grids helped me a lot to create my own version with dynamic ranges instead of fixed arrays. Watching this video, I realized my improvised lighting system in 2D is pretty humble lol.
@TheBigYC
@TheBigYC 8 күн бұрын
Interesting video, ty.
@bunnybreaker
@bunnybreaker 8 күн бұрын
This is so damn impressive. Graphics programming really does feel like magic sometimes.
@berghwilliam
@berghwilliam 9 күн бұрын
Awesome video, thought it would be realistic lightning bolts which would also be interesting since I've looked into it a bit but can't find much usable information on it.
@andreanderson626
@andreanderson626 8 күн бұрын
Thanks!
@simondev758
@simondev758 7 күн бұрын
Thank you!
@curiouspers
@curiouspers 8 күн бұрын
This is beautiful
@GTGTRIK
@GTGTRIK 9 күн бұрын
Great stuff. Although the project isn't in the projects list?
@Yilmaz4
@Yilmaz4 8 күн бұрын
yeah i can't find it either
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
Should be there, if not, just go to my github.
@Bidule200
@Bidule200 8 күн бұрын
@@simondev758 It's not there. The project is indeed on your Github but I can't get it working.
@yds6268
@yds6268 9 күн бұрын
Thanks you for linking the paper. For such complex topics I like to carefully read an article rather than just watch the video
@brandonscott3012
@brandonscott3012 Күн бұрын
I was gonna read that pdf he released about the technology. And now i dont have to :) Thanks!
@NicosLeben
@NicosLeben 8 күн бұрын
The live demo seems not to be available on your homepage yet.
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
I think there's some caching issues, I'll try invalidating and hopefully you can access it.
@kipchickensout
@kipchickensout 5 күн бұрын
Love it! I bet this or some more practical example would be interesting to 2kliksphilip too
@nanoalt8127
@nanoalt8127 7 күн бұрын
Someone call Sebastian Lague!
@lemonjumpsofficial
@lemonjumpsofficial 8 күн бұрын
Hmm, I think you could also use lower resolution cascades the further away you are from the camera, to save up on computation! :D I'm definitely going to try working with this!!!
@ferinzz
@ferinzz 2 күн бұрын
Been waiting for someone else to validate this technique. It's really cool to hear promises, but always even better when others get to compare the results. Would have loved a comparison with some other technique, though since you've only implemented on 2D I guess you can't really compare with your 3D ray-trace model.
@SeanStClair-cr9jl
@SeanStClair-cr9jl 8 күн бұрын
This effect is beautiful! Thanks for sharing! Also can you help me find your demo? I'm on the projects page and I don't see it!
@ThatTallBrendan
@ThatTallBrendan 7 күн бұрын
"They're _waiting_ for you Simon.. in the *dev* chamberrrr..."
@wormjuice7772
@wormjuice7772 9 күн бұрын
Cant wait for unreal engine to pick up on this. Very nice!
@the_curious1
@the_curious1 4 күн бұрын
Cool, reminds me of voxel cone tracing with 3D clipmaps. It also has the same issues: light leakage, not good at perfect reflections but hopefully the new technique scales better and uses less vram. I'll have to look at the paper once it's released in its final form. Edit: Btw. for 2D you can make cone tracing work quite well and fast for GI. I only implemented the 3D version 8 years ago. A little bit surprised that it was hardly adapted since it can work quite well in certain types of games.
@djayjp
@djayjp 8 күн бұрын
Maybe I'm missing something, but I think this only works in screen space, right? Therefore, it'll exhibit the usual disocclusion artifacts that such techniques have, such as SSAO, SSR.
@robosergTV
@robosergTV 5 күн бұрын
NO, it can work in world space as well
@Trooperos90
@Trooperos90 8 күн бұрын
Love your video what are you using for editing presentation anims?
@simondev758
@simondev758 7 күн бұрын
Everything is render/animated via custom shaders.
@Kidinventor7777
@Kidinventor7777 Күн бұрын
its about to go critical!
@mattwilcoxuk
@mattwilcoxuk 8 күн бұрын
Great video Simon - the projects page isn't showing that demo though, may need the caches clearing?
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
Yeah, let me know if it still isn't showing and I'll try to force an invalidation or something.
@dmdjt
@dmdjt 8 күн бұрын
@@simondev758 I don't see it either. I see: "How do Major Video Games Render Grass?" "How Big Budget AAA Games Render Clouds" "I Tried Making an FPS Game in JavaScript" "I made an EVEN BETTER Minecraft"
@Beat2Chill2
@Beat2Chill2 8 күн бұрын
These animations look top notch. Any chance of sharing what software you use to create them?
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
I animate them via code in shaders. I cover a lot of it in my shader course.
@realmarsastro
@realmarsastro Күн бұрын
I'm glad you had a good experience with the graphics programming discord! Personally I found them extremely unwilling to answer questions, saw a lot of condescending and demeaning replies to newbies asking questions.
@simondev758
@simondev758 Күн бұрын
I can believe that, it's tough to be a newbie in programming in general unfortunately. And in my experience, a lot of programmers seem to think basic social graces are a waste. I saw that a lot at Google in my time. If you have some questions, feel free to send them my way and I'll do my best to answer or point you in the right direction.
@darxoonwasser
@darxoonwasser 8 күн бұрын
Awesome video, however I have one suggestion. In this video, even at 1080p, KZfaq's video compression and low bitrate are extremely noticeable and there are a lot of artifacts all over the place the entire time. As a suggestion, could you upload videos like this at 1440p in the future? Even for people with a 1080p display, this can make a massive change in how clean the video looks because of the better bitrate.
@SheepUndefined
@SheepUndefined 8 күн бұрын
It could also be the background having a sorta high amount of detail?
@gargean1671
@gargean1671 8 күн бұрын
Still can't overappreciate what NVidia did in 2018. We still aren't fully there, but it put us so much closer.
@Soulzjd2
@Soulzjd2 Күн бұрын
Reminds me of a video from several years back on Unitys Light Probes. I have VERY little understanding on how all this works though so not sure how similar they are other then they attempt to help solve the same issue of lighting.
@doggo9757
@doggo9757 9 күн бұрын
Perfect video to watch when my PC renders my blender scene.
@mito._
@mito._ 2 күн бұрын
I understood everything up until the radiance cascades nodes. The rays are casting out something to something, because directions... uh, you do it again because idk, then you have another pair of nodes doing something farther away... then you combine it for some reason, somehow... and you get this magical thing I can't explain. 🥴 This is just before the GPU part and using pixels to solve for ray directions.
@lexicon_c
@lexicon_c 8 күн бұрын
with my brains and your brawns, we'll make an excellent team!
@xtc564
@xtc564 7 күн бұрын
Could you do a video about different shadow techniques? From basic shadow mapping using hard coded projection params [like in directional shadows ortho(left: -10, right: 10, bottom: -10, top: 10, near: -10, far: 10)], through tight projection math, normal bias, texel size world space, etc. to CSM and VSM?
@Stonehawk
@Stonehawk 4 күн бұрын
Sounds like this would be perfect for Minecraft ESPECIALLY!
@otDan
@otDan 9 күн бұрын
very informative video on this technique!
@khhnator
@khhnator Күн бұрын
damn this is a interesting idea
@combine_soldier
@combine_soldier Күн бұрын
Hi, just tried the live demo on your projects page and it's melting my gtx 1080ti at highest quality settings also on my 21:9 monitor brush is squished along Y axis very cool demo though
@ThePowerRanger
@ThePowerRanger 8 күн бұрын
Neat
@Osanosa
@Osanosa 8 күн бұрын
Cool
@tjpprojects7192
@tjpprojects7192 8 күн бұрын
Radiance cascade? Don't let some mute in an orange jumpsuit hear that.
@4.0.4
@4.0.4 7 күн бұрын
For some reason, even though you explained all it's doing, the end result looks better than what I would imagine if you didn't show it. Like I'd expect worse artifacts from this.
@artificiyal
@artificiyal 8 күн бұрын
i watched the original video a year back on alex sannikov channel
@Alexander_Sannikov
@Alexander_Sannikov 8 күн бұрын
now we're talking!
@PolyRocketMatt
@PolyRocketMatt 7 күн бұрын
I am curious to see what the bias is like for large scenes though. It reminds me a bit of "surfels" which were developed by EA if I remember correctly. It was an innovative technique but contributed a lot of bias to get real-time noise free images. The way this method is layed out, it seems like that's also going to be the case here, limiting it's effective use in real-time games with certain FPS goals
@lFunGuyl
@lFunGuyl 3 күн бұрын
This man clearly never heard of the Black Mesa cautionary tale 😬
@DingleFlop
@DingleFlop 8 күн бұрын
I really appreciate the content, but I still had trouble following this one. Hopefully I can get some insight from your next post..!
@mysticalfoxie
@mysticalfoxie 7 күн бұрын
1:50 Im confused... I thought that was raytracing Also remembered you can limit the max bounce count.
@Wittbore
@Wittbore 9 күн бұрын
yay graphics!
@Petch85
@Petch85 8 күн бұрын
👏👏
@TankorSmash
@TankorSmash 8 күн бұрын
@SimonDev I don't see the demo on your Projects page, I only see Grass, Clouds, the FPS, and Minecraft ones
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
Let me know if it's still not showing up.
@TankorSmash
@TankorSmash 8 күн бұрын
@@simondev758 I still don't see it. Cleared cache and then also checked in incognito
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
@@TankorSmash Ok I've tried a full invalidation, should be good now. Let me know, otherwise you can visit simondevyoutube.github.io/Shaders_RadianceCascades/
@TankorSmash
@TankorSmash 8 күн бұрын
@@simondev758 After clearing cache again, it showed up this time. Thank you!
@FelixVyra
@FelixVyra 9 күн бұрын
Hi. So the discord invite doesn't seem to work. It's possible it's just for me tho.
@theunknown4834
@theunknown4834 9 күн бұрын
Same because it is a link to the channel, not an invite
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
I am not good at internet, there's a pinned comment with better links.
@AnimusBehemoth
@AnimusBehemoth 2 күн бұрын
I’m putting together a dev/design portfolio site and would love to theme it around the kind of dynamic lighting you showcase on your site. Would you mind sharing the stack you’re using? I’m not asking for your source code or anything, I’m just relatively unfamiliar with bringing lighting simulations into the web world at this level of sophistication
@palapapa0201
@palapapa0201 8 күн бұрын
I can't find the demo on your website
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
It's under projects, hopefully it's showing up now.
@Liefx
@Liefx 8 күн бұрын
I uhhh.... yup!
@theunknown4834
@theunknown4834 9 күн бұрын
I cannot find the demo
@simondev758
@simondev758 8 күн бұрын
Should be there, if not, just go to my github.
@tirushone6446
@tirushone6446 8 күн бұрын
Could just be me but it felt like the video ended a bit soon. Like I am not sure how you get from "layers of probes at different resolutions sampling lighting" to what you show at the end. Also is this global illumination? because it looks more like direct illumination with soft shadows and emmissive surfaces (which is addmittedley impressive in it's own right if it runs fast).
@klirmio21
@klirmio21 8 күн бұрын
Finally another video!
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