I got banned for no reason

Six if you don’t do pain v itachi for your 50k im pulling up 😭😭😭😭😭

Un ban me

@@Heistjdj1337 ikr, nigga makes an server, invite u, then ban u for no reason 😭

@@MultiAssassin31 he thinks Itachi win…he said it on stream multiple times with Seth

Lmao

Racism amp lmfao

*unintelligible gurgling* WHAT DID YOU SAY UCHIHA???

Tobirama dint have his will of fire boost as well

@@Sayojen OH YEAH! YOU WAS TALKING ALL THAT GOOD SHIT A SECOND AGO; THEN YO WHOLE CLAN GOT WIPED OUT! YOU REINCARNATE INDRA, YOU REINCARNATE!

😂😂😂😂

good points.. plus tobirama had to live in an era of multiple wars. inventing justsus, and using them at the same time.. no time to practice during peaceful moments.. the generations after them, were given time to grow and learn and eventually be given light to moderate missions until they beccome full grown adults

I’m a Sasuke stan lol but I never thought of this before. It was right in my face and I didn’t see it. That’s a really really really big mention. How strong are these ninja if you buff them to the standards of more of their modern shinobi😮‍💨😮‍💨😮‍💨

you are right

This is an amazing take.

Although, tobirama and hashirama are only, like, 3-4 generations older than narutos group. The show made it seem like they were so much older, like hundreds of years older than narutos group. The amount of evolution in the refinement of justu in narutos Era was refine by real geniuses for then to have come as far as they did in such a short amount of time. Tobirama is at most 150 years older than naruto. Assuming, Minato and kushina were roughly 18-20 when they had naruto and if Minatos parents were jiraya and tsunade, like a nice theory proposed, and they were 50 when naruto was 13. Then Hashirama is tsunades grandpa giving another 50 years between them then the warring states period of narutos world ended max 150 years before naruto was born. They aren't nearly as ancient as the show makes them seem

Since itachi had it and sasuke had it, that might mean black flames of some kind could be genetic. Imagine tobirama killed sasuke & itachi’s great grandpa 😂

Sasuke and Itachi are far beyond most Uchiha, even those that had mangekyo.

@@bobjohnson1633so?

@@bobjohnson1633 "Even those that had Mangekyo". I don't know bud, there's some real stiff competition.

@@bobjohnson1633 Source?

I disagree with him being the most underrated hokage, that definitely have to go to Tsunade still.

@@gcitydev true

@@gcitydev atleast she got more screen time and is recognised more but many people forget that tobirama is strong to begin with

@@sasookex say that to hiruzen the old man not even have a screen fight in his prime (Him has to be the most underrate hokage)

@@gcitydev bro tsunade is really weak(I am not including 100 healings) I mean in part 1 she literally lose to kabuto And tobirama is strong still underestimate that he can't beat orochimaru, jiraya etc

Tobirama : Exactly.

i love this thread

damn... that racism amp do be strong

Bro ngl if I gotta be racist to get that amp then so be it

Bee needed to be saved multiple times

Fuck was tobirama gonna do 💀

@@jinmali a whole lotta teleportation cheese and endgame him

@@thanos8914 I mean he couldn't touch revived 1 eyed madara. rinnegan Sasuke would do tobirama so dirty

@@ishmaelpierson7681 1 eyed revived Madara was also way stronger than Sasuke so your point doesn't really stand Edit:this comment is invalid since it talks about another edited comment.

@@skittles664 thats before sasuke had his rinnegan lol... Your out of context...

The Hiruzen and Tobirama disrespect is crazy

Exactly bro 😭😭😭 tobirama violates pre rikudou amps

There is just not enough information to know if second hokage could beat perfect susanoo. Sasuke had perfect susanoo before he got his 6 tomei rinnegan

@@itsmesteve1081 no he didn’t 😭 he gets the final form of Susanoo after the rikudou amp

@@itsmesteve1081 no he had full susano not perfect susano.. he got perfect susano after getting the rinnegan and sosp amp

The ps is shown when he wraps the kyuubi avatar with the diamond from the ps there

@@gameuniverse5973 perfect susanoo has wings and u always at the top in the diamond shape

Yea, and all things considered, wasnt the kinkaku and Ginkaku squad made of 20 S-class shinobi......................That quite literally means Tobirama went down fighting a squad of basically 20 low to mid tier Akatsuki level fighters, all with their own unique jutsu and individual levels of strength and skill not to mention 2 of which who quite literally have version 2 nine tails cloaks to fight with as well as the sage of 6 paths weapons.................There's barely 10 people in the entire series who can survive this situation, not to mention the brothers we see fighting against Darui are nerfed by the edo tensei and are probably drastically stronger back then

Not only this- nothings stopping him from using it with a shadow clone 😉

@@dungeon-wn4gw exact

@@dungeon-wn4gw it won't work. The shadow clone will just get blown away. He needs an indestructible body aka any edo tensei

@@ohboi9578 That doesnt make any sense. The moment the jutsu is activated, the Shadow Clone isnt needed. The shadow clone is only there to set it off. They can pop, and the jutsu will still go.

@@dungeon-wn4gw it needs to MOVE to a moving target. Thats why tobirama never used it with a clone. Papaer bombs need TIME to replicate themselves enough that it would make a significant damage. It is not an instaneous that's why you need a moving body to follow the target until the jutsu actually has enough fire power. Every other shinobi apart from six paths dudes would've run away the second they saw the paperbombs, it's literally common sense.

idk about that, they woulda showned it in the anime . Also susanoo is supposed to be a spirit armor meaning the caster can summon it anytime, i don't know if you can teleport it away. Even still, just to entertain your logic, it would be pointless as the uchiha in question could simply summon another susanoo armour

That version of susanoo was not the perfect form. Perfect susanoo is as big as Godzilla earth and has no openings like the version of susanoo you are talking about.

if he puts a mark on sasuke he can just teleport inside his susanoo and kill him since its defensive capabilities are only on the outside. hiraishin is just a broken jutsu that makes diferences in strength or abilities nearly meaningless.

@@smileyent.3055 yea but then they get speed get clapped as you force them to bring up the armor so save their asses and as it is about to hit the Sussanoo sorry you lost your amor good luck with this ninja nuke bye bye

@3rd Way sasuke could definitely catch tobirama in foot speed but teleportation is too broken… but it’s not as useful in combat as it would be let on

He did

@@damaritodd2180 not Obito,Tobi,the goofy one

WRONG. His ftg is not equal to 4ths ftg. He simply teleported a short distance with a melee attack, which prevented his attack being able to be seen.

@@bobjohnson1633 I never said the 2nd was equal to Minato in ftg. I said he could keep up with Minato’s ftg. Meaning that even though Minato is faster Tobirama isn’t much slower. Of course at their level of speed even a slight difference can put you on a whole other level. As for his flying thunder god slash you just admitted he can prevent his attack from being seen. If Sasuke can’t see the attack coming then he won’t be able to take advantage of the Sharigan’s visual prowess. Sasuke has never fought someone who could actually use the technique so it’s unlikely he’d be able to react to it in time. Also you never addressed the possibility of alive or Edo Tobirama using the tandem paper bomb.

​@@bobjohnson1633FTG is not shunshin. He said Minato shunshin is better not FTG. How can you teleport faster since it happens instantly?

@@TienNguyen-ky4dx Thank you!

This Minatotards immediately cry when their Minato God is compared to Tobirama HAHAHAHAH they're like onions​@@bobjohnson1633

Its an interesting take, but i feel that narratively its not backed up at all. Izuna sort of implies his below madara "theres someone stronger than you older brother?" when he met hashirama, and the fact that it was always those 2 fighting one another, and never either against the older sibling. The fact madara keeps praising hashirama and doesnt praise tobirama (excluding the speed part, which is contentious) and the fact that when madara activates his perfect susano, tobirama is literally shook and as far as we know never tried to fight him whilst his brother was alive. ive always viewed it as SM Hashirama > Base Hashirama >~ EMS Madara > Tobirama, and maybe in speed tobirama exceeds both of them.

@@George-zc6dj narratively Tobirama can’t kill any pre-rinne Sasuke or he isn’t stronger than base Hashi/ Madara? As far as physical feats go, he was on par with Hashi as edo in their fight against Hiruzen (actually, I think he has a stronger showing. Hashi mostly just used wood to immobilize Hiruzen while Tobi gave him the hands). Whether that’s stats or taijutsu ability is debatable. There’s nothing to suggest Hashi is more durable, just that he has massive regen which isn’t quite the same as durability. Hashirama is way stronger than Madara in sage mode and the only alive version of Madara that competes is rinne Madara. In base I don’t think there’s any wood jutsu Tobirama can’t cut through given his showing against the god tree and his severing wave was like a hot knife through butter (suggesting it would take something much more durable to even come close to stopping his jutsu). Also a single FTG seal on anyone would mean he could teleport paper bombs onto their bodies instantly. He has the speed necessary to do this and if his physical stats are in the ballpark (even if lower), they shouldn’t be killing him outright with taijutsu. I don’t see base Madara or Hashirama doing the things Tobirama did to any Juubi character. They all clearly became stronger from the time Izuna was killed, but if the potential is similar between the four, the only thing that separated them were EMS and Hashi getting sage mode meaning Tobirama should be comparable in base because of linear comparison and should be above in base based on feats. Madara needed all sorts of amps in the war without access to the kyuubi to do what he did to an edo Tobirama. And he only competed with Hashi before because of the kyuubi. Madara is also not a competent narrator when it comes to judging the power of other people because he has a bias for Hashirama. The only person who impressed him was Guy and he didn’t even say he was better than Hashirama, just that he was the best at taijutsu and that was having better showings against an even stronger version of him. There’s no way Madara would ever admit anybody is stronger than Hashirama, and his opinions are zero sum. If you’re not Hashirama you’re nothing. It’s just very dismissive and not really a reliable way to say how far or below someone is comparatively

@@GodKiller97 this was a good response and you actually really made me think about the edo fight against hiruzen, because even though they were both nerfed to shit, they were still relative with one another. again though for physical, does hiruzen not also say hashirama still has that "mighty strength" when nothing is said of tobirama? it seems to me the implication is that physically hashirama is much stronger. Yes and i agree 1000 percent about sage hashirama being stronger than any non amp version of madara (six and swag in the past have said ems madara scales over him which is absurd) while tobirama can cut through the god tree, it was still less of a scale than what hashirama normally uses. even though it regenerated, it was a smaller portion, while hashirama will shoot out significantly more wooden tendril things like with deep forest emergance, plus im curious as to how tobirama counters the poisonous flower, whilst fending off multiple tendrils, as well as golems, etc which have large destructive capabilities which realistically could kill tobirama, if a squadron of kinkaku/ginkaku and their men could (not saying its an anti feat, i just dont believe their dc or ap scales to anything hashirama has). Madara is bias for hashirama yes, but that bias and appreciation stems from the fact he admires his abilities so much, not just that they were friends. he constantly praises his abilities, ultimate shinobi, etc etc it goes on and on. he says nothing, literally nothing about tobirama, and even if you argue "its just because he hates him" there were parts he also hated hashirama yet still praised him constantly. also, he constantly praises other people like naruto and sasuke too, its not just hashirama. the fact tobirama also constantly obeys his brother and always backs down whenever he gets pushed, implies in the fight against juubito he needs him there at times (though it could be about his hax). if youre saying the ems and sage mode amp seperate them, then i obviously agree, but i dont consider ems a completely seperate form, its still base madara (unless you mean without sharingan lol)

@@George-zc6dj Madara compliments Sasuke’s eyes but not Sasuke specifically, and I don’t think he said anything about Naruto that was complimentary at all but I’m not going to die on that hill because I need to reread the fight to be sure about that. In any case, Madara hates Tobirama and even after death as an edo states that he’s been wanting to stab him for a long time and said it was too bad he wasn’t alive. His whole ultimatum involved Hashi killing Tobirama. And no I don’t think Tobirama could deal with wood spam but we only see that really from sage Hashi. Sage Hashi wins, but Tobirama should be able to deal with the pollen by burning it (I think the data books mention he’s mastered all 5 basic nature transformations and he has chakra on the scale of Madara to create large enough fire balls to probably do it). Hiruzen does mention Hashi’s strength so it probably suggests he’s physical stronger but most of the beat down was still given by Tobi, so maybe Tobi is a better fighter? It’s hard to draw too much from the fight in that regard, but I don’t Hashi is as strong as Tsunade given how Tsunade punched a giant hole in Madara and if Hashi were on her scale, the only way Madara survived battles with Hashi means that Madara either severely outclasses Hashi in taijutsu or Hashi didn’t possess the strength in life to one shot Madara like Tsunade does. He’s probably strong but not THAT strong since I don’t see him being so behind in taijutsu behind Madara that he can’t even hit him. Edo Ginkaku and Kinkaku also fought an entire division of the alliance and were defeated by sage weapons and questionable writing. Also Darui scales really well, it’s just not talked about. Tobirama fought stronger versions plus a heap full of other ninja. I don’t really consider his death here as an anti-feat. And yeah by base I mean regular mangekyou. Uchiha don’t really fight without activating it but it’s nebulous trying to argue what base is for an EMS user. We just suggest what we might think the amp is from mangekyou to EMS and Tobirama falls somewhere within that gap. Hot take but if alive Madara needed Kyuubi to even fight a Hashirama, I don’t think non-Kyuubi EMS Madara is really scaling that high against Tobirama. If Tobirama had full Kyuubi, where are we placing him? People already scale Tobirama to orange mask Obito. I don’t think alive EMS Madara is really that far above Orange Mask

@@GodKiller97 i believe Madara said (when Naruto destroyed the Deep Forest Emergence with his Odama Rasengan barrage. {I do want to point out this was in the anime and I can't be a 100% sure but I believe it was after the meteor fell since the Tsuchikage was very injured and wasn't being healed by Tsunade}) to Kabuto "You were right, he's quite the guy" or something like that

Ems definitely wins keep coping

With the Majestic Attire it was a Perfect Susanoo wrapped around the Kurama Avatar.

@@Kcinthasun wasn't sasuke buffed by jugo to do that as well as kurama chakra cloak?

That was KF-EMS who needed help, after that he gets fighting amps, maybe a hatred amp, and is just stronger overall. The Sage Power was to damage Juubito, and even so the Curse Mark is inferior to the SM Amp Naruto has, yet SEMS and BSM are still relative. I agreee EMS loses to BSM but to say KCM2 destroys him is just wrong. They are equal or I’d give it to Sasuke if its his Post-Juubito Fight Variant.

@@noyesno1899 id argue kcm2 naruto dookies on sasuke i think ems is somewhere between kcm1 and kcm2 but i feel like kcm2 is too much of a powerhouse for him to do anything. hashirama stated kcm2 naruto was rivaling his chakra reserves and just through hashirama flexing he not only scared the sh!t out sasuke but also easily undid orochimarus control over him whereas edo itachi (who id argue might be able to beat ems sasuke) couldn’t and had to use kotoamatsukami to break free. he’s def stronger than kcm1 but kcm2 claps his cheeks inside and out

@@davidhall3894 The issue is your prolly thinking of his Early/Mid War Arc variant. Post-Juubito Fight EMS is insane, being relative or superior to Blind SM Madara, a weaker Madara blitzed SM Naruto, with a Senjutsu amp fought equally with BSM Naruto, take away the Senjutsu amps and he’s relative to KCM2. Its worse if I argue that EMS Sasuke had the PS at the end of the Juubito-Fight, the thing likely needed to push him to EMS Madara’s level.

Even tho i hate it ems Sasuke was clearly relative too juubito somehow

@@gameuniverse5973 no he’s not. Tobirama said he “could surpass madara”, meaning EMS sasuke still hasn’t reached madara level. No way is he relative to obito, BSM naruto carried that fight.

Name some justu that he has that can kill tobirama before he got rinnegan blaze release is not touching him kirin need’s prep time susanno is not touching him sasuke would run out of chakra tobirama would kill that form of sasuke

What are you saying 😐

hiraishin beats pretty much anything as long as the caster marked his target. susanoo cant protect sasuke when tobirama simply teleports inside it.

@@uteriel282 sasuke is more than capable of avoiding being tagged. he was keeping up w/ juubito and bsm naruto. and tobirama himself admitted that he was inferior to base minato in terms of ftg

Didn't know if my message was loaded or not. So if you see another message of mine around here. Then sorry.

The jutsu description says it means certain death for the user meaning that's probably not possible

@@sixfromtokyo he uses edo tensei then dips

@@teeheeteeeheeididit6379 you need hella prep for that you need a living sacrifice as well as a body to summon

Hashirama is murking unless you include kcm Minato, Tobirama,and hiruzen

You barely watched the video for all we know he could be praising hitler for 8 minutes of the video.

@@LuhTwizzy__ boy what the hell 😭😭

Bro WHAT lmfao. Nah but that's my guy I showed him the vid before I uploaded it.

Orochimaru screws him unless he has koto not on cooldown

Orochimaru would stomp

If you think there’s any tobirama downplay join the discord

@@abrahamlincoln7907 that's a great quote abe 👌

Oh my god he said Tobirama > Ems Madara in speed is possible. The character development

@@angrydaniel2905 i highly doubt Tobirama was faster than ems Madara but eh

@@angrydaniel2905 six is a gigachad now

he picks and chooses what feats he wants to use or dispute to bolster his points and then whenever someone calls out the nonsensical logic he claims you don’t understand and are interpreting wrong😂

Not to disagree with you just my 2 takes on that sakura statement. In power meaning destructive damage obviously are you gonna argue that sakura has the same level of iq as sasuke or that sakura has the same level of stamina as naruto she doesn't that statement means she is relative to them in destructive damage and even then naruto had more damage potential than sakura.

Thank you I've been saying this🤦🏾‍♂️

They'll be back real soon :)

It's not me bruh...

Highly doubt it Amaterasu is Sasuke biggest advantage Tobirama gonna zip all over the place for izanami too work

No, there are certain conditions for it to work

Impure World Ressurection caused so many problems(See War Arc), I would argue that’s really not a good thing. Besides, without Tobirama, Konoha wouldn’t be near the level of “Strongest Village” but, without Hashirama, Konoha wouldn’t exist and Naruto would still be in the Warring States Era. Who’s going to establish the Village with the Uchiha? The “Racist Hokage”?

@@actuallyreallybored3552 That's a bad take, sure the Edo Tensei was a jutsu that shouldn't have been created or shared with other. But Tobirama did give the Uchiha the Police force so that they would have a big role to play when it came to the village, it was Danzo that literally separated them from the rest of the Village.

@@lipe9039 I'm not saying Tobirama is a shit Kage or Danzo isn't basically responsible for half of Konoha's Problems. But Tobirama making peace with Madara is just silly. Plus Tobirama created the PF as a way to keep the Uchiha's emotions in check, not of good faith.

@@actuallyreallybored3552 nope, he literally had the strongest uchiha at the time (besides Madara), kagami uchiha along side him protecting him why would he not trust them and then place the strongest in the village as his 2nd right hand

@@lipe9039 That only happened cause Hashirama and Madara actually created peace and made the village. Tobirama didn't even know Kagami until Post-WSE. Hashirama and Madara was the literal only remotely positive relationship between Senju and Uchiha before the Village was made. Kagami is also explicitly stated to be one of the *few* Uchiha Tobirama believed in.

Or a Shadow clone if possible.

@@headshotmaster138 you dint think ems Sasuke won't see the shadow clone with bunch of paper tags covering it when with a base Sharigan he saw micro bombs

@@gameuniverse5973 Seeing it and dodging it are two totally different things my guy. Remember how well he saw Bee's swords yet still got clapped?

@@grandempress1947 Bee is as fast as it gets without a Shunshin no Jutsu, Bee is an exception

People think “Tobirama’s fast” but they’re forgetting that Sasuke’s also fast as fuck

@@-OUS_J not only that, people also forget that Sasuke is a tactician too. In universe characters praise people like Shikamaru for his intellect, Tobirama and his inventions, Itachi and his talent, yet Sasuke isn't praised for his genius but he shows us. They talk the talk, but Sasuke walks the walk.

Danzo may have been a little more knowledgable about uchias, but danzo lacked the power & speed, Literally 👍

@@kelvinallen9327 agreed

​@@kelvinallen9327i think Danzo is stronger than given credit for, he has hashirama cells which Amp stats