I can't understand how Ganondorf's up-tilt wasn't mentioned here. Incredibly slow, impossible to land, and if you're going to hit someone who's shield-broken then you would use Warlock Punch anyway - if not literally any other move since all his moves hit like a truck. Why does this move even exist?

Was expecting to see the Belmonts' whip wiggle lol

"Let's talk about Olimar" that's not Olimar💀

Meta knight fair is such cap, it's super good, it helps me extent combos, end conbos, and I can use fastfall fair up and kill ez

I think you are underrating MK fair. Yeah its no Marthcina fair obviously, but its a good combo move for more damage when the opponent is past ladder percents and while not as strong as bair its a decent enough edgueguard tool against characters with bad recoveries, especially with the positioning being easier. Its a good enough spacing tool as long as you drift back as well. But most importantly you can use it as a Kill Confirm with Dragdown fair into Shuttle Loop. If a low commitment move can kill you for getting touched by it I dont think it qualifies as a bad move, even if the timing can be a bit strict

Saw meta knight on here, rage click then remembered uptilt and was like ok got it. Then it ended up being fair and now i could write a paragraph on why thats wrong but ill keep it simple. Kills off on bridges and ladders Its hard but fastfall fair before it ends combos into up-b/upsmash/downsmash(sometimes) Cross their shield makes it safer People predicting nair drop they shield and get hit Low percent on some characters combo into dash which can basically be a ladder kill. Being fair tho, it sucks in just regular situations but not useless.

I think the use of down tilt on villager and isabelle is a safe poke on shield as it has a lot of shield knockback, so it is harder to punish

counterpoint: there aren't any pointless moves in smash bc even the worst, least applicable move on any character's kit can be used to help unstale their good moves. checkmate

I wish Ivysaur's Bullet Seed was replaced with Solar Beam similar to how it is in PM

It’s like you only looked at two Meta Knight clips for research and called it a day. Up tilt was right there and you decided to choose F-air. All three hits of F-air is useful, starting combos, extending combos, dragging down, and even killing after a bridge if you can’t B-air. MK’s Up-tilt is completely useless in contrast, as it has way too much lag to do anything on hit.

Wario jablock to fsmash is possible but frame perfect

I just think we have a different definition of pointless. You named at least one potential reason for each of these moves to be used.

As a szz player I’m going to say forward smash is definitely more useless. Up-tilt isn’t bad in a scramble like you said, and is a passable out-of-shield option on ambiguous cross-ups. It also puts enemies above her which she is right where she wants them

Little Mac back air. I mean yeah, all his aerials are bad, but they can be used for something. His back air is just really bad that even if you hit it, Little Mac gains nothing out of it.

Villager down tilt can be used as a two frame that kills when landed at higher percentages it is also pretty decent on shield. There is also a way to break shield with down tilt and pocket projectiles

Meta knight fair is really useful , cause it's a decent oos option (mostly cause of the range, though it's also very quick) it's really safe if you space it and drift back correctly, can kill off the ladder, has slightly less end lag than bair so you can jump spam it off stage some more, and you can also drag down into a tech chase and shuttle loop

Ridley DAIR. Stall & Falls are just not good outside niche scenarios on most characters and Ridley's dair is just the worst one out of a very mediocre bunch. -very heavy landing lag at 32 frames -zero landing hitbox -no disjoint -very middling kill power for a risky move -spike is specific and difficult to land the only pro I can think of is that it "starts fast" but that's not saying much since the move still has bad frame data. The worst part of it is not often talked about and that is his Recovery angled down is just a wholly superior version of it. -WAY less landing lag -landing hitbox -spikes the entire way through -can snap to ledge and do some gimping cheese -angled slightly forward so it has recovery potential Dair does NONE of this. It's the worst down air in the game for a very good reason.

No, Zss fsmash is worse. Uptilt has use cases like you mentioned. "Pointless attacks" means that there is something similar in their kit that completely replaces said move leaving it with no use cases. In her case Uptilt doest really get replaced for reasons u mentioned but theres no reason to use Fsmash when Upspecial Is faster and kills earlier anywhere on stage.

"I'd like to think I know enough about characters" my brother in Christ you put Cloud in honest tier on your honesty tier list

Talks about Olimar Features Captain Toad standing in for him 😂

Mii Brawler’s Head-On Assault is somehow an even worse down special than Counter Throw, and you’re passing up your own version of ZSS’ Flip Jump for it. All it’s really good for is suiciding, and it’s not even the best move for that. Soaring Axe Kick can suicide the same way, but it’s their up special with the best recovery and doubles as an out of shield option with decent range. You might be running Thrust Uppercut to get kills off the top of the stage, in which case you won’t have room for SAK, but if you’re concerned with using Mii Brawler’s most optimal moves… you were using Flip Jump anyway.

Mk fair is hard cap

So I know these were all attacks, but if we're taking special moves, Yoshi's Egg roll is probably one of the worst MOVES you can do in this game in general, can't combo, can't kill, tons of start-up, years of endlag, no armor, no intangigbility nor invincibility, useless for recovery and is a death sentence if used offstage. The ONE use it had was being used to travel quickly in Melee and Brawl's adventure mode. If I were to tweak the move, I'd give it less startup and make it bounce less upon activation, make it move 1.3× as fast, then give it armor similar to Ryu's focus attack but instead of it negating knockback, it negates damage once while getting knocked back, then breaks Yoshi out of it if he's hit a second time. If this happens, then you can continue to use the move, but the armor only regenerates while the move isn't being used similar to Villager's balloons. The aerial version can operate like the Tulip from Yoshi's Story that just flings Yoshi forward a short distance, depending on whether you do a regular or Smash input. But it'll have more start-up and much weaker armor. The distance gained from using it won't be much further than if you had just held right in mid-air though. The reason why I suggest armor is because Yoshi's shield is also an egg, so it's incoherent for the move that also puts Yoshi inside of an egg to not grant any sort of armor? Yoshi's current recovery allows you to come back from almost anywhere anyway and the use case for this move would still be situational but at least it would HAVE a use case. Thoughts?

Pac mans up tilt when trying to shark on platform is better than nair because it can shield poke much easier. As a result of nair being an aerial, its actually less spammable than up tilt if your opponent is just shielding on platform You can also do up tilt -> up air (or up tilt, up tilt, up air if they are really low) for a small combo if you manage to hit it once aswell The opponent can however just shift their shield but it can be a good to use on occasion as a mix-up I would argue his down tilt is much worse

I'm a little surprised to not see Roy's dash attack. I don't think there'd ever be a reason or situation where you'd wanna use dash attack over DOUBLE-EDGED DANCE (my beloved)

I use Ivysaur's neutral B to punish moves that I don't know if they will cross me up or not (like some dash attacks) because it seems it can hit from behind too. But his better use is in doubles, you give a free bair to your partner or even some hilarious assists to Ryu's dair, Cloud's finishing touch, etc

As a ZSS main, I disagree with Up Tilt. Frame 3 and covering both sides at once are just such good traits, it takes the place of down smash most typically. It's also really good out of parry because of the 3 frames of invincibility you get off of one. It can be used to interupt Mythra Nair in the middle of the move for example.

Olimars up tilt is a super useful combo tool that you can often connect out of a landing nair and combo into multiple up airs, not only getting lots of damage, but taking a fairly long time to let pickmin on the opponent do lots of damage

shulks jab should be here. its frame 5 and a small hitbox... as a shulk main i sometimes even forget that jab is an option

Egg Roll, Marth/Lucina dash attack, any of Robin’s tilts, Ganon up tilt, not being mentioned is wild. Plus saying Olimar up tilt over Olimar forward tilt and Jiggly down tilt over rollout. Literally 80% of the selections on the list are really questionable

I used to play Villager quite a bit for the first year of Ultimate or so and Down-Tilt was pretty good. Nothing crazy, but it was a quick non committal kill move. The range on it and fast startup can take opponents by surprise.

Just so you know, Bowser Junior is a poor sandbag to use for showing percents, because damage is dealt differently on the different parts of him

"..and if you include the fact that Meta Knight has one of the best tool kits for edgeguarding, it feels even more pointless within the scope of his arsenal." >Shows a clips of Meta Knight's fair being practical Fair is basically a "1-dollar store" Bair, which is very good on it's own. Fair can kill in edgeguards where nair doesn't reach, can dragdown to kill confirm into a UpB, is a combo finisher and can be a combo starter in the right situations, Fair can also dragdown to grab and such It obviously gets overshadowed by Bair, but Fair is a pretty good aerial that has a place on his tool kit, specially when turning around is harsh on that situation and Fair is at your disposal. (Uptilt is prob the worst move, since its a niche combo extender and nothing else)

For ivysaur you basically just said it doesnt do anything up air doesnt do, (exept do 25 damage (cough cough)), but you failed to remember the simple fact that ivysaur neutral b has 5 times the range of up air and doesnt make you fall faster. You also said that it requires you to get too close for a mid range character, but using that logic up air and down air are also bad. It has VERTICLE range, still allowing him to stay at mid range and do a huge amount of damage without any of the risk of getting close enough to up air, especially if your opponent has a counter

Falcon punch is barely stronger than fully charged fsmash. If you get a shield break there's generally no purpose to use that instead. The actual edge case if you get hit with rest and it doesn't kill, since you can do the start up while falling.

Why no ganon up tilt? There's literally no reason to use it even on shield break punish because of war lock punch

You can combo Olimar's landing nutral air into his up tilt more making laddering easier at low to mid percents than using up smash, and it doesn't rotate to your next pikmin which up smash does, for whatever that's worth. I'd say it's more niche than useless.

Finally, someone actually talking about how terrible Pac-Man's up tilt is! I hate that move so much (Especially since his old up tilt was actually able to hit opponents in front and behind him. The Ultimate one can literally only do one thing... Hit directly above him. Nothing else).

Pointless is definitely too harsh a term for anything listed here. They have use, but in the context of competitive play they see less use than other moves. MK being on here is especially egregious since it's not even something that's rarely used in his kit unlike the other examples here.

Good choice putting Full Moon Full Life in the background of the video

I literally don't think I've ever seen Pac-Man's U-tilt animation before this video

I'm an isabelle player, at high percents jab down tilt is a kill confirm, also i like to use it to poke people's shields. Idk what villager down tilt is good for tho

First of all, great video enjoyed it as always :) I do know some applications for Zss up-tilt. These applications are very niche but in these situations Zss doesn't have other options, so i wouldn't call up-tilt pointless. Zss up-tilt is not a very practical move but she lacks a lot of coverage around her. Oos she has up-smash jab or up-b, her aerials are either too slow or hit way above the enemy due to her high jump height. The best Oos aerial is F-air because it hits the lowest and is fairly fast. This brings us to the niche use cases of up-tilt, although i can only reaaly find two. When an enemy crosses up shield with a dash attack or laggy aerial or when zss spot-dodges an attack/dash-grab. Up-tilt is a very fast punish but more importanty it hits on both sides and has decent horizontal range. If you spot-dodge and both characters are clumped up together, trying to land a jab/up-b/up-smash often times won't work because they only cover in front of you and up-b and up-smash have pretty inconsistent hitboxes when standing in an enemy. If you can't tell if the enemy is going to end up in front of you or behind you your other Oos punishes are inconsistent and even risky to throw out. This applies for example when Greninja dash attacks on your shield. Depending on his spacing he can choose to cross up shield or not. When he doesn't, dash attack is easily punishable with up-smash or up-b but when he does, up-b is risky to throw out. Even if you react to being crossed up he pancakes which often times results in him falling out of your up-b, which is your only Oos option when getting crossed up. Up- tilt will hit even if he crosses up and is a safer punish than up-b. In conclusion Zss Up-tilt is only used when both characters are clumped up together or you can't tell if an attack will cross up your shield or not.

Meta knight main here. Fair is not useless If you want a horizantal air move, then backair is really good. Fair is a decent move if you cant manage to land a bair. Beginners and sometimes pros dont reverse their bridge because its too hard. Fair can make up for that. You litterly see abadango finishing the ge with fair in the video

cant believe they said "pointless moves" and didnt even mention belmonts whiplock or piranha plants footstool easter egg

My 10 would be Ganon's Up Tilt, followed by Ganon's Up Tilt. You get the point...

Isabelle down tilt is a kill confirm at about 120. Jab>Jab>Down tilt is true and kills in scenarios where down smash or forward tilt wouldn't.

They took my Smash 4 up tilt from Pac-man and I was so sad, it's not got a great hitbox or speed but the ANGLE it launches at is great for hydrant setups, you can get it to go real high with next to no horizontal speed which is vicious on the ledge and great to cover Pac-man neutral special cycling.

Every characters best move part 3?

Marcina dash attack not being here is kinda nuts. You could LITERALLY take that move out and replace it with their pivot cancelled f-tilt and it wouldn't change an IOTA of their gameplan in neutral. Fundamentally useless move in their kits

I genuinely had no idea that Olimar had the up tilt. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it used EVER

For Isa’s dtilt, falling nair combos into it. Can be a option to close out stocks (rarely)

So, Wario's f-smash is "pointless.." because it's an f-smash?? Like yeah it's not a particularly good one, but you can't just say "use waft instead" as a reason not to use the standard kill move every character is given. It's not like you can just throw wafts around any time you're ready to take a stock, you only get so many per-game (usually one.) Obviously it's not gonna be getting hit raw very much at all, and forward tilt is very often better for safe attempts at killing.. _but that goes for well over half the cast!_

full moon full life instrumental my beloved

Okay didn't expect the modded olimar XD that's awesome

Full Moon Full Life in A SMASHY BROS VIDEO. I've been blessed.

Agree on most all these except for ZSS up tilt. As a ZSS main I use it more than you’d think because her out of shield game is so horrible so it’s her best out of shield option to deal with cross ups unless they are right on top of you in which case you can use up b.

When I was a kid I thought Puff’s rest was just a taunt with an investment.

Crouching down back tilt can set up tech chases against fast fallers. And it’s pretty hard to react to. On wolf specifically it’s the only move cjab combos into

My list would be olimar up tilt, Gannon up tilt, Byleth down b, mii brawler falcon punch (not his best shield break punish,) ivysaur neutral b, yoshi side b, wario down smash, little Mac bair, Marcina dash attack, and Steve nair (not to be confused with short hop macro sword fair.) I am not sure and I definitely missed stuff, but this is my quick top ten, and I might be wrong about Steve, Yoshi, and Marcina, but I am out of ideas.

I do thinking that usings skins when doing a technical video is bad for the quality and clarity of the point youre trying to pass

Meta knight's fair is amazing, what are you talking about? You cant use nair for every situation you would use fair, fair is way longer ranged. You proved with the footage you showed that its a great and commonly used move. Also, you cant say that its objectively one of the worst when its just your opinion, especially when its such a good move

Okay, it might be too obvious, but where is Robin’s down tilt? Other down tilts get to combo or set up for tech chases or even kill. Robin’s legitimately does nothing. I have to imagine a Robin would prefer to be throwing out Levin aerials, projectiles, or even his other tilts before using this move.

5:15 g&w up tilt is his only actually good follow up out of drag down nair at low percents

Ivy bullet seed is quite good as an oos if the opponents move is quite unsafe. It’s a frame 9 oos (3 frames jump squat + 7 frames start up). It has a big hitbox and does high damage. Underrated!

Some of these should not have been here in my opinion. Kazuya's crouch kick, MK fair, Puff Down Tilt, there are definitely worse moves you could've put here

As Far as PAC-Man I would argue that Down-Tilt is BY FAR his worse / least useful move. Up-Tilt Combos at low % and can set up into a kill with up-tilt into up-air on some characters at high %. Not great but there's utility there. F-Tilt does EVERYTHING Down-Tilt does...only Better. Its Faster, Stronger, has a bigger Hit-Box, can be Angled AND deals more damage. Down-Tilt even as a two-frame option IF..... you land it launches at an angle that most can recover from. If I could change any move in his kit down-tilt would be the first to go.

While a lot of people are saying you are wrong about some of these I want you to know I did forget about jigglypuff down tilt and if it disappeared nothing of value was lost

That low kick Kaz uses is pretty wack in Tekken too. It’s slow, minus on hit, and weak, but every character has it as a universal option.

Pac-Mans up-tilt makes me wanna scream, it looks like it would function identically to Marios but for whatever reason, they gave him a small hitbox that's only active at the end of the attack animation and at the very top end of his glove. It was like this in Smash 4 and it hasn't changed, why - WHY.

I feel like this video is just comment bait or you're generally uninformed. Platform sharking invincible up tilt is great, kazuya crouching hit is a great tech chase set up against short characters, something he struggles against. Zss up tilt is the middle child anti air between the startup of uair, and the recovery of up smash. It does its job as a deterrent and its fine to put out in neutral just as a conditioning tool. Villager d tilt is probably the easiest to time and the most damage he can get without going for bowling ball or nair, and the hitbox is pretty deceptive. If you like juggling, say a swordie instead of sending them offstage, d tilt can be a great punish rather than a nair. Meta knight fair is cool for killing, landing fair combos and keeps them next to you if you dont want to have to chase down a naired floaty because they DI'd up so dash attack misses.

Kazuya's crouch spin kick can be used to set up an untechable knockdown at certain percents if I remember correctly. I saw it used once very early on while players will still experimenting with him. As it would turn out, the only time you really need a tech chase as kazuya is if there are platforms involved in your TOD combo, so I havent seen it used since.

I feel like many up and down throws would fit this list. Forward and back throws always have the use of sending an opponent offstage if nothing else, but there are cases where some characters will always want to use either up or down throw instead of the other, because one of them is outclassed in every possible way (combo potential, damage, kill power).

As a pac man main I’m so glad you mentioned up tilt that move is literally only for here for style

Saying MK fair is a useless move is crazy, MK fair can drag down true combo into up-smash, cover a lot of area with a fast fall to exploit most recoveries, combo into meta knights best move up-air, can extend or end combos, pressure shields safely if spaced and as shown in this vid is used in combos to kill off the side.

I use villager/Isabelle down tilt as a feint. Get your opponent used to you planting trees/gyroids, then when you're in punish range you down tilt instead of down b, they get over confident and you can punish.

Jigglypuff's dair can combo into downtilt and works like a Kazuya forward tilt, killing a bunch of characters from the ledge.

Because of how floaty Pac-Man can be, doing any aerial to poke a platform can be commital at times, and by comparison up tilt has little to no end lag or startup and combos into up air reliably. I find myself using this move more often than expected. If Pac has a useless move it's down tilt.

Well edited and good video idea, but time to rant... Pac-Man's Utilt isn't even close to useless on his kit. Everyone who doesn't play the char says it's his worst and that it's useless but that's just flat out wrong. For one, it's his best way to pressure plats, especially without Fruit (Which is a resource you need to have charged ahead of time). Nair is unsafe rising and you also won't get any followup especially if you miss, and there's really no way to continue advantage. Usmash is terrible and super laggy/committal and won't cover much, plus your platform pressure ends if you go for it. Uair is slower to go for and also has the same problem as Nair where if you miss you give up all advantage, so Utilt serves a unique purpose for him, due to it being basically lagless, having the intangibility, and having good followup potential while also allowing you to continue pressure if you miss. It's also a very good combo extender and he can combo into it with Galaxian, Fruit in general, Uair, etc. This will set up into Uair Fair Key, or just Uairs or other good followups, It's a big part of Pac's combos you see Soupy post on Twitter. Even without all of that, it's still got other uses. It's a good timer for Hydrant setups, like sending it backwards with Breverse fruit is consistent if you buffer Utilt. It has a very good launch angle for Hydrant that pops it right up, and unlike Usmash it doesn't leave you wide open for going for it. It's also just a good anti-air without Fruit for Pac, a char who doesn't really have great juggling tools and would rather catch your landing, so it serves a unique role for him. He doesn't really have anything else to anti-air you with as Usmash is just too laggy and not even that big to compensate. Dtilt meanwhile, would've been the pick here as it truly is just outclassed. It is a poke, but so is Ftilt, which is faster, bigger, and does more damage. Dtilt is only safe if spaced, has no reward or good damage, and doesn't do much at all. If you try to use it as a ranged poke, Ftilt would just be better. It can autospace at ledge for an Ftilt 2 frame, but you can just space yourself anyways or ledgetrap. It can serve as a timer but because of it's weird auto spacing, it can mess up a lot of setups. You can use it to combo into waterboosted fruit but Ftilt, Fair, or Fthrow would work there too. Usmash and Fthrow are also just worse moves than Utilt, one is an inconsistent liability that's a horrible anti-air and doesn't really do anything other than kill from Bell (Which Side B and Bair also do if they are in the air) and the other is just a bad positioning throw, but they do more than Dtilt. Strawberry is very much outclassed by Cherry but it still has the same basic uses when you catch it so it doesn't count either.

I would compare kaz's crouching down back to something like wolf down tilt where you just throw it out for free damage on 2-frames and if it misses you probably still get to ledge trap

If I recall, Villager's down tilt has a long enough hit box to go past the trunk of the tree. Not very applicable to competitive play but at lower tiers, especially in 2 v 2, playing a hyper defensive tree game is so much fun n having a mixup that can hit them when they think u r about to drop the tree on them n then u drop the tree after the tilt weakened their shield, then the tree can easily finish them. So it is very very niche but I like the move

Iirc zss’ up tilt used to be partially intangible (at the legs I think) in smash 4, but they took that away from her in ultimate for some reason.

I’m definitely not an Isabelle main but I like playing her a fair amount in tourneys, and the main use I’ve found for it is punishing people who don’t immediately grab ledge or someone who’s unsafe on shield, almost get the launch power of a smash attack except faster and not too much to worry about if you throw it out once or twice on an opponent’s shield

Surprised that piranha plant’s crouching footstool counter isn’t on the number one spot for most useless move

Kazuya’s downback-tilt can be used as a two framing option and since its endlag is low, you lose nothing for throwing it out. Other than that it is relatively useless unless a Kazuya is trying to style.

I actually don't think I've seen olimar's up tilt before today

As A Kazuya player I used to use crouching back tilt for a bit to set up tech chasesbut tbh it's not even that good at doing that

Kaz low spin kick is ultra niche and a gimmicky option but it puts the opponent into a tech chase scenario. It's not very practical but getting hit by it is a total "wtf" moment, and then you find yourself getting put into a tech chase into a jump side B equals unalive. Again, super niche but it's got a great surprise factor since its frame data is actually really good, just awkward to use.

I knew Pacmans uptilt would be on the list as it’s really niche but it’s great after conditioning an opponent to air dodge or jump out of a throw with up air’s. It feels so good to land too, especially when you get the timing right to land like 4-5 of them and see your opponent panick thinking “what the f*ck is this move??”

Crouching DB is good for 2 things, either a semi-fine 2frame option that gets you barely anything or a tech chase that might get you an electric if guessing right. so tbh it's good if you wanna mess around with your friends or un-stall moves but otherwise it's niche to the point of just being a miss input

Villager down tilt could’ve been fantastic if it did anything it looks like it should do. Perhaps it could pull u out of a burry for much stronger damage while also being able to uproot a sapling or full grown tree giving it anti air properties; perhaps it could even have a small chance of pulling certain items too

i'm not even close to ending the video but just answering the question at the start i'm pretty sure it was like confirmed smash was made as a party game and then things were added later to comply with everyone wanting to make it competitive

Dang bro, you should play a few games with these characters before making a video on them, Villager and Isabelle's dtilt is one of their faster grounded kill moves, it's safe on shield if spaced and I think (I'm not sure I haven't played Isabelle in a long time) you can even combo out of it at lower percents and your take on MKs FAST DISJOINTED MULTI-HIT FAIR is just one of ignorance or inexperience on the character, I don't think MK has a single pointless move in his kit in Ultimate, maybe weaker moves but not outright pointless.

Isabel's down tilt comdo to fair at low percentage and its super safe on shield because of the shield push . Plus nich set ups into loyd rocket . I use it enough

Missed opportunity not having egg roll/rollout on here

Mr game and watch up tilt comboes into judge, I think down throw can too, but its way harder and way less consistant. Mr game and watch's up tilt may not be the best move, but using it to combo into judge can kill at 0% so...

Bullet Seed is great out of shield in certain situations, especially out of a parry at mid-high percent when rising nair/bair don’t combo anymore and so bullet seed is the most damaging option. It’s a niche use case, but it *does* come up and I don’t really understand why PT players literally never use the move.

Have you ever seen anyone use kazuyas crouchdash special (the hellsweep)? Its an iconic attack for him but i dont what its used for in this game

Bayo's FTilt is a pretty big contender. Frame 12 start-up on par with most heavyweight moves, ONLY active on frame 12, does mediocre damage of 13% on all 3 hits, has no combo potential beyond

alright, kazuya's crouching back tilt is usable only for tech chases/situations, but at that point, you re better of trying to yolo a tombstone crusher for crazy knockback and stage advantage, or just try to use a jab for an EWGF follow up.