There is not enough evidence for me to risk my cats life. I am vegan but they are not, it is that simple.

All great points, thanks for the vid. A few thoughts from me: I lurk a vegan cat facebook group. This group got Professor Knight to give a webinar. He reiterated, multiple times, that no one should try to make their own cat food. But the members kept asking how they could. He was not pleased, it was very cringe... Anyway, my concern is with availability. I would switch in a heartbeat if a brand like purina offered it. This same facebook group, you see tons of people struggling to keep a regular supply, and having to make substitutions. These small suppliers can't ensure consistency or availability. Unfortunately, our rescue is a neutered-as-an-adult male and has already had surgery for a UTI. So I'm very hesitant to switch (yes I'm morally conflicted). Thanks again, great vid!

Honestly if you want vegan pets, get rabbits, or rats. Can cats be vegan? maybe, but we currently don't really know if it's healthy or not. Ans personally I wouldnt count cats that can hunt outside as vegan, my old cat got plenty of food but still are like half the mice she brought home.😮

I don't think I have the abilities or capacity to determine whether keeping cats on a vegan diet is a good idea. For me - as long as Hannah Shaw - (AKA The Kitten Lady) who's a massive advocate for veganism (has been vegan for like 10+ years) and who knows more about cat welfare than anyone else I know - keeps feeding cats meat, I'm going to trust her that it's the way to go. Meanwhile we should focus on trap-neuter-return programs to help lower the cat population.

Also, you have to take into acount the age of the cats. Most "vegan" cats were younger, compared to the meat eaters. Without even getting into food, you would expect higher reports of vet visits, and clinical problems in older cats.

It's just the fashion choices. Idk about this whole full cheeks means youre youthful thing but idk about women in general. But in MY opinion you don't look old mom

It is a pity that people feel the need to oversell the vegan diet. Cats on a vegan diet being just as healthy as cats eating meat would have been a great outcome of this study. Now they sow doubt where there would have been none.

Studies like this based on owner questionnaire are not conclusive. Proper research needs to be done.

The big thing that concerns me about the data in that study is that they show no error bars. So they aren't even showing how variable the data is between the groups! I'm honestly surprised that paper with that data was published in the journal that published it. Even if they had taken the more obvious conclusion that just looking at the means suggest, that there isn't a difference and that vegan diets work for cats too, the variability is important to know. That said, the numbers of cats on the vegan diet side likely isn't enough to make a strong conclusion either way.

This is a topic I have never been able to make my mind up about, I’d love to read some studies but I don’t know that my knowledge is good enough to assess what studies are good or not, I think statistics like you described in this video go over my head. It’s nice to hear that vegan diets may not be bad for cats but with all the differing opinions out there it’s just incredibly difficult to not feel like no matter what decision I make as a cat guardian that decision is potentially wrong in some way. My other personal dilemma is two of my cats have health issues, one has an over active thyroid and the other has suspected feline hyperesthesia. I feel like there’s next to no chance of me finding a vet in my city that would know enough about vegan cat food and studies done on it and whether it’s ok for cats with over active thyroids, but yet I can’t guarantee a vegan diet would be bad for her either. It’s definitely not something I’m against people trying if they are sensible people that can and will monitor their cats health. I think you have to also consider that some people may be afraid of being accused of neglect if they put cats on a vegan diet and I have seen a tech post that the vet she works with would report a cat guardian if they put their cat on a vegan diet. So there are some really challenging concerns.

Some statisticians also now are "just report the actual p. Instead of 'below x'" This because when p values were made, you had to calculate by hand. You had a table of what your z value could be depending on factors. Now you calculate the actual p value in a program like excel

Professor Andrew knight has a video list of about 30 videos - if you have cats or dogs I’d recommend you sit through them and then you’ll learn so much I listened on my commutes to work

Some people are in a situation where they rescued their cat off the street & gave them a happy home instead of life in a shelter, but it just so happens that they are so broke they can only afford basic cat food in the store, and “beans & rice” for themselves. Let’s remember that in the very definition of veganism it is stated “…as far as is possible and practicable…” We don’t need a few perfect vegans. We need an entire society just doing their best to minimize harm. I’ll be looking into this vegan cat food though & doing my best to make changes where I can.

I think they should focus on cats older than 10 years. Young felines in general would be fine, if taken care of.

I was hoping you would comment on this! I feel like the evidence isn't there yet, the flaws in the study are too big. The omission of duration is very significant and quite strange. But I do hope this opens the door to more research that will offer a firmer foundation for any conclusion and change the perception that feeding cats anything other than meat is immediately animal abuse. If a vegan cat food is shown to be safe in the long run I will certainly try it. My cat is a super picky eater so I don't know that she would even eat it, but I would certainly try to introduce it. She eats different feeds made from byproducts right now.

I can't find your video on Evolution Pet Foods. I just ordered a case of canned food literally hours ago. I consulted with Dr. May and she recommended it. Please let me know what is wrong with it? I don't want to harm my little kitten or cat. Please respond asap. TIA

This is a really good channel

If we happen to find that cats can acutally eat vegan pet food, what would "obligate carnivore" mean anymore?

WHY would you even think of feeding ANY carnivore a vegetarian or God forbid a vegan diet. It's a crime to impose your beliefs on your pets. Wrong on all levels.

Petcurean has some vegan options. I don't feed my dog or cat a vegan diet, but Petcurean is a fabulous brand that does a ton of research and has a wide variety of food options. I have tried the vegan kibbles just to see if my dog would eat them, and unfortunately while she liked it just fine, it caused really bad eye goop for her (which is something a variety of foods can cause for her).

The only problem with vegan diet for cats is hydration. There is only dry food available, at least in my area and since cats are reluctant to drink water, you have to soak the dry food REAL WELL, otherwise expect urinary issues.

All kibble isn’t great for cats. Fresh food is best.

Great analysis

To the point of "cats who have a regular source of food rarely eat what they hunt": I guess no one explained that to my former cats^^ They were even picky: birds are food but mice are food depending on what kind of mice they are. The ones with the dark stripe are non-food apparently. And yes, my cats had dry food and wet food, different types/brands of food, cat milk, snacks, special cat grass, all of it. They hunted because they wanted/out of instinct, not because they were starving. How do I know it was instinct? Because one of my cats was found when she was

How did that vague and misleading statistical analysis get past peer review?

I think I need to learn about P values & watch this video again 😂 my Mum was a vetinary assistant though & has always strongly believed cats can't be vegan but dogs can

No matter what conclusion this comes to, I'm bringing popcorn for the comments.

I would really like if you tried Future Farm plant meats, its from Brazil! I think they sell it in the us

Good video!

As a stats major, stats seems to be both universally required in nearly every field and also universally misunderstood in every field. I think the most valuable part of actually majoring in statistics is learning to identify misrepresented and improperly applied results and methods. It’s insane how easy it is to misrepresent results with clever framing

I always wonder why no one ever factors the digestive tract in in this topic. Carnivores have a shorter digestive tract than herbivores and omnivores because no relevant digestion for energy supply happens in their hindgut. So, why should they eat a plant based diet??? On the other hand herbivores can't digest flesh efficiently because of their longer hindgut and it would start to rot inside the hindgut. Is it because our pets are fed processed food?

I'm still pretty dubious about the reliability of vegan diets for cats, even if the study indirectly suggests parity in health outcomes between vegan and non-vegan diets. The fact that the duration is excluded from the methods is suspicious to say the least. I would love nothing more than to feed my cats a vegan diet, but they do not find the foods palatable and had very unhappy cats and weight loss in already lean pets. I can't explain the ethics to them, they are simply looking for me to give them love, protection, and nutrition. So, I seek pet foods that are as far from factory-farmed as possible to balance my desire to live a vegan lifestyle and ensure my pets are optimally cared for. Perhaps if I had I introduced the vegan food when they were kittens, it may have been feasible, but I had only just become vegan in 2010 when two of my cats were born and I hadn't really considered it. The "baby" who is 8 years younger might have been an option, but let's face it, isolating foods from cats that self-regulate and you are not home for 10+ hours on weekdays is just not in the cards. Cue the melodramatic hand-wringing from puritanical nitwits who will call me a "carnist" or a fake vegan... But I live my life in a way that limits animal suffering in nearly every way feasible in the Western world. I adopted my animals from shelters to give them loving homes and this is cognitive dissonance I am willing to accept.

There’s a brand called Noochies which is mostly focused on dog food but has cat snacks. As one may infer, it’s a nutritional yeast based food (a proprietary one). It does seem dog food is their main thing but perhaps cat food is a coking down the line. I do think cultivated meat will be the only thing to upend most people feeling uncomfortable giving cats a vegan diet. Dogs are entirely different and I think they are much easier to keep healthy on a vegan diet that considers all their nutritional needs. When you said a vegan who’s cat isn’t doing well on a vegan diet may not tell that to people so that they also feed their cat a vegan diet, then that’s kind of the other side of the same unethical coin. You’d be willing to cause suffering to your own cat and others for the sake of other animals. If it’s a strong position to not feed a cat a vegan diet then you have 2 options… Don’t take in a cat Have a cat that is outdoor primarily with some supplemental feed made of animal byproducts. Although then you would have to contend with the fact that cats, especially in urban areas, have been a large contributor to the deaths of birds Of course, it is natural for a cat to hunt and in nature this fine. The only aspect of this that is unethical is that the vast number of cats (stray and not) are because of human’s breeding them. So again, it comes back to us. I have a cat. I’m vegan. I don’t feed him vegan. It isn’t practicable at this time. The food is expensive. I choose byproduct based food. This cat came into my life before I was vegan. After he dies, I will not take in another cat. As for dogs, I think this will be different. There are also plenty of other animals raised in captivity that are totally/predominantly herbivorous so if that’s an option to adopt I would look into that.

Interesting video. ❤

Maybe my cat was strange, but he had always eaten what he had hunted. (Was that sentence correct? I'm not a native speaker)

Cats are carnivores period. DO not just feed your cats and dogs just plants. Its not smart. Go to Africa and try to give the lions some broccoli. Record your efforts.

I spoke to professor Andrew knight about his latest study and he really wants to do blood tests etc but the limitation was money. Anyone have a research grant to send him?

Your channel is incredibly underrated! This was great

UTIs are prevalent in male cats regardless of diet. Do urine pH tests on every male, cat every month The pH meter is only a tenner and crystals in urine can be painful

Since vegan diet for cats is a somewhat newer technology, wouldn't you have to account for true believers of the diet under reporting signs of ill health by taking away the pet owner factor? Randomly selecting a group of cats into 2 diet groups and otherwise taking care of them and evaluating them in a double blind/similar way.

So in this study they dont follow the cats for their entire lives and they dont do any bloodwork? Im not doing experiments on my cat...

Does anyone know of any commercial brands that develop vegan cat food that is based on science, meets all the nutritional requirements, and has approval from vets?

looove the hair !!

I feed my cats Benovo wet . At first they didn’t like it but I used flavour enhancers - spirulina and nooch. I feed Benovo dry but as treats not as a food.

off topic but this hair looks great on you!

Right now I'm still skeptical, not from a "cats cant be vegan" standpoint but from a quality control one. Until there is vegan cat from a company with good standards, I probably will be. However, Bond Pet Foods, a start up trying to make pet food with cultured meat, actually has a partnership with Hills Science Diet. So, if Bond ever comes to maket and I can afford it, I'll probably get it for my cat.

Idk why The System makes it seem like making homemade petfood is like rocket science. You just have to do some basic math and some weighing. The most inconvenient part is finding a butcher who can sell you all parts of an animal, not just the muscle meat. This is how I feed my dog.

Nonsense. Cats are obligate carnivores. They are like lions, cheetahs, leopards - they are supposed to eat all carnivore.

If you think it is ok to have vegan cats then you should also protest against sharks eating habits

Want a vegan pet? Don't get a cat, they are obligated carnivores. You're likely causing more harm to the animals doing this. I mean this is like trying to feed a (grass eating) cow a meat only diet this would likely lead to the animals not living very long..

Cats are naturally carnivorous. Don’t neglect their nutritional needs for your own selfish reasons.

Important video

Mmm idk about this one

Nah…

What is so weird about vegan cat food is it says "not tested on animals" on the packet. But I know that if something I use to feed my cat is not tested, then that makes my cat the experiment. This is one of the only exceptions where I would actually rather see animal testing. I thiink about it as being potentially bad for a few cats who are tested, but it's for the greater good of the larger population of cats in the world. Why would I rather no experiments be conducted and intead all cats in the world just be one big, potentially cruel experiment?

FWIW, there's an article in The Guardian today, "World’s dogs going vegan ‘would save more emissions than UK produces’ Study estimates cats and dogs consume about 9% of all land animals killed for food". Quote; "The study estimated cats and dogs consume about 9% of all land animals killed for food - about 7 billion animals annually - as well as billions of fish and aquatic animals. Plant-based diets lower greenhouse gas emissions and require less land and water. The research at the University of Winchester calculated that if all the world’s dogs went vegan, it would free up a larger land mass than Mexico and more freshwater than all the renewable freshwater in Denmark, and would feed about 450 million additional people - more than the entire EU population. If all the world’s cats went vegan, it would save more emissions than those produced by New Zealand, land larger than Germany, freshwater exceeding all renewable freshwater in Jordan, and would feed about 70 million additional people - more than the entire UK population, according to the study published in the Plos One scientific journal."

My dogs have been eating a kibble that contains rice for a long time. Thinking of how maybe arsenic could build up slowly I recently changed to a kibble without rice. You mentioned fish in connection with arsenic, but wouldn't rice also be a potential problem?

since domestic animals are different than their wild counterparts. as vegans, any "animal testing" is frowned upon, right? even trying out different plant based diets for cats. do I think cats can digest some carbs? sure. but...here we go...maybe lab grown meat should be used to feed our pets?! just a thought.

My cat isn't vegan, but I like adding the few veggies cat's can digest & she had a snack based on insect protein today. Honestly, even if I fed her a plantbased diets she would never be close to vegan as she enjoys killing mice 🐭 My cat was 10 when she started living with me btw!

I feel like the western would gets more ridiculous every year

I dont even know of any US-made vegan cat food.

I think it really is just for each their own plus how much you actually have to pay. With the UTIs, that is most likely due to feeding dry food. It is incredibly common for cats who eat kibble to get UTIs. For me, I honestly had to switch my cat to more meat diet as he is almost a senior and does not absorb protein as much as he used to

Note: cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they have to eat meat to survive

Oh my god its the worm from Labyrinth!

There is no such thing as a vegan cat. If a cat had a choice they would always choose meat over plant matter.

I wonder if vegans don't just take better care of their pets, leading to a better health outcome overall.

no way. You haven't aged a DAY Swayze I swear

I'm a psych student that did a lot of stats courses, let me try to explain the statistics, in case anyone's interested. p-value: Does the observed "difference" qualify being called different? Imagine a bunch of coloured balls in a bag and you have to pick out red balls with a red-ball seeking tool to check if it actually works. If p=0.05, there is a 5% chance that you can pick only the red balls by your bare hands (i.e. by chance) without the help of the tool. If p=0.01, there's a 1% chance. Abiding to either p

And this is why we can't really rely on any studies to do with human health either.

Lol, your hair thing. Is it bc of the kids (lol)

What plant foods does yours cats love? Mine like olives, chestnuts (room temperature), rice, oats, avocado, cantaloupe so far.

My problem is, I tried it 3 times with my cat. Each time it starts to vomit. It like the food very much. but unfortunatly ... The dog is no problem.

Honestly, not enough research.... what are the ages of the cats? How long did they live on average? I have a 23-year-old non-vegan tabby, and I'm not too certain he'd be alive if I fed him vegan kibble or the regular cat kibble on the market.

IS THAT THE LABYRINTH WORM!!!???

All I know is reasons why it cannot work... which had ALL come from the 1980's. So, assuming things have changed during the past 37 years or so, perhaps today it already IS possible to feed Cats Vegan. Perhaps a way HAS been found, to successfully incorporate ALL essential nutrients into a Vegan Cat food. If Yes, it most certainly IS Grand. Would Love it if You will make a follow-up vid, extensively exploring whether or not current Vegan (and non-Vegan) Cat food options do actually meet Cats' nutritional requirements. However: if a Cat goes outside, they will hunt - and, if they lack certain nutrients on their daily routine diet, they shall eat their prey, definitely. As THEY ARE CATS. Not humans.

Vegan cats….the vegan subject is definitely on the wain.

If you want a vegan pet, just get a known herbivorous pet.

Haven't watched yet but the answer obviously is yes

Great! So grateful to have a Vegan advocate offer up a no non-sense, intelligent debate about this "HOT" topic... I am Vegan but my cats are not and that is how it will stay as long as there is not more substantial research that a Vegan diet can be an actuallly viable option and not endanger my cats health 🙀 I have spoken to so many professionals in this scace and 99% of them agree that feeding plants to cats is not a safe option and would require constant monitoring, blood tests and scrutiny to ensure your cat doesn't develop Cardiomyapathy or other deadly illnesses😿

First of all a "disclaimer" I'm not vegan, though I don't eat a lot of meat normally once or twice a week, but not here to crap on Veganism/Vegan cats just to give my thoughts. Personally I think its possible to have a cat on a well produced vegan diet. But personally I don't think it's a question on if you can have a cat vegan on a highly processed, artificial food but if you should (not hypocritical as i despise kibble too). To me we are choosing to keep these animals so its our responsibility to feed then what they are made to eat not what they can eat (with some mild caveats that I'll address later). The big problem I see with these studies alot with vegan vs none vegan cats in addition to some of the points made in the video is that they're comparing a better quality but still unnatural food, being the vegan one as typically they're still better quality, to a down right horrible food (being the cr*p they put into kibbles & wet foods). Will say I do think a wet food is better then a kibble in a lot of ways but still have a lot if short comings. Its the effect that you see people have when they go on unsustainable but cleaner diets (ie the raw fruit diet, carnivore etc). Once accustomed to it they start to feel amazing and noticed improved health, because they do. But not because the diet is good for them but because its a lot cleaner then the processed stuff they've been eating previously. After enough time most switch to a more sustainable diet because they realise its short comings or stuck with it because they're in denial and their health suffers (can literally see it when you look at these people). Thats effectively what they're doing in these studies. Comparing before when the animal was on a poor quality food to a higher quality food (as generally vegan animal diets do pay a bit/lot more attention due to who is their customer base is as they're more likely to actually pay attention to this) and then draw the conclusion that vegan is better then meat for these animals. Me personally I feed my cat raw (various body parts and whole small animals plus some plant matter). Same for my dog he's on raw with a mix of animal parts, whole animals and plant matter. Not the premade diets but done myself. Will say I feel confident in my knowledge on how to provide a balanced over time raw diet for them from my previous experience working on a carnivore section at a large zoo with then making some adjustments, ie adding more plant matter to my dogs diet compared to how the wolves were fed as its a dog not a wolf. Even with my other animals I give a wide variety of foods to them, the amphibians, lizards etc having a wide range of insects not just one or two types, the snakes having a range if snall mammals, birds, lizards, amphibians and for the snake eating species other snakes etc. The cases I do use artificial foods ie rodents and birds, these are as a supplement to make sure I'm covering the nutrients they need along side their raw diet. Just one example is the rats i breed for the snakes mostly have a whole seed, nut, veg/low sugar fruits like green pepper, squash etc diet. As well as a range of invertebrates. Then get one pellet each a day as a supplement and occasionally get sugary fruits and actual "meat" ie peft over bones, day old chicks etc. Btw occasionally means once or twice a month. Imo we should feed animals what they were made to eat not what they can eat because we want them too for our own convenience/morals/lifestyle. If you're vegan and want a vegan pet you should get a vegan pet. Ie rabbits, Guinea pigs, true vegan fish etc. Note not tortoises. All of them naturally scavenge bones for calcium and need a source like cuttlefish bones. Many species also needing actual animal protein like Red Foots which both eat invertebrates and savage animal carcasses. Some of the caveats I said I'd address is for example if its not the exact foid species in nature but similar and does the same job. My King Rat snake from China eats pretty much everything including a significant amount of snakes. Me feeding him Corn snakes from North America isn't natural true but its more natural then just feeding him rats abd mice and making it obese like most people do with them. Also acceptions is when an animal has specific conditions and need a specific diet. A friend of mine has a dog allergic to nearly everything and has to eat an artificial kibble that's made from insects.

Vegans need studies for everything, truth is simple What is a cat? A carnivore What should it eat? Meat That simple, no paid studies or “soyence” needed

Even if a vegan diet would be healthy for a cat, is it right to make a cat eat a vegan diet? They can´t choose that lifestyle and they are naturally predators who eat meat. It just seems wrong to me to make that decision for my cat.

Good luck. I can’t even get my cat to eat literal salmon and shrimp cuts. He only eats his one kind of crunchies and it’s not the good kind.

Less than a minute in, I want to add that like some dog breeds, some cats do really well plant-based while others do poorly. It really depends on the individual. My cats (indoor cats) love hummus and even eat bits of my salad, so I thought they might enjoy vegan cat kibble and they eat it just the same as the non (theytore up the nice resealable bag, so I have to hide it from them in a top kitchen cabinet). They are not "vegan cats" since it is very difficult to get wet food for them and it's the only way they will take medications if needed. 🤷‍♀️ For orange male tabbys, they seem to need special diets (meat based) and will still develop crystals on rare occasions. Your vet should STILL do PH urine checks no matter what your cats are eating.

Feeding your cats a vegan diet is abusive

One word. Prismo. 'Nuff said.

If a study was saying that cutting the head of your cat was good for the cat, the vegans would do it. Without studies, how the vegans would be able to live ?

Ethically, it's a no-brainer. Only adopt a cat from a shelter, get them desexed, keep them indoors, and feed them the least amount of animal product possible to keep them reasonably healthy.

Can Cats eat Beyond and Impossible with supplement A ?.

Admit it, some of you are here because of That Vegan Teacher.

Just do not feed them fish = poison! Are there still fish in the Oceans?

Cats are a carnivore they along with other animals need mewt to survive so forcing your cat/dog to be vegan is just cruel

Most people were feeding their cats vegan diets due to allergies and not for ethics reasons.

Ridiculous. The oldest cat on my barns is 23 years old. The only medications he has ever had is a three year rabies shot when the vet comes through each Spring for our herd inspections. All of our cats get freezer beef and whatever vermin they catch. Cats are considered parasites, and have an average 3 mile hunting area, but I doubt our ever leave the barn yard. Either way, they’re very healthy carnivores. The day they start eating hay or pasture, I’ll reconsider.

I don’t think you deeply understand what a p-value actually means. The cutoff p-value used for statistical significance is utterly arbitrary. There’s nothing magical about a p-value smaller than 0.05. It’s just a convention based mostly on tradition or habit (just like eating meat). The different health outcomes measured between the two groups of cats fed with the different two diets did exist (since in all measurements p-values were smaller than 0.5). What a p-value lower than 0.05 simply tells us is that if there were an infinite population of cats fed with control and plant-based diets and their different diets didn’t have any effect on the health outcomes that are measured for this study, the probability that the difference measured between the two groups of the sample were the effect of randomly picking that finite sample of cats used for the study would be less than 5%. Would there be much of a difference if instead of less than 5% were less than 10%? I don’t think so.

If you feel the need to feed your cat a vegan diet, and strip them from the natural diet and joy of life, YOU are part of the problem. Those unholy righteous vegans

What’s your opinion on insect dog and cat food? I mean it’s been proven that insects don’t feel pain and only have nociception.

How many dead animals is a cat worth? Lol. Nice.

My cat is not vegan but she is super healthy

Tall Tiger 65