Which is what it should had been all along, but I take what I can get.

Agreed. The cop part holds it back.

its anchoring it... either you like shows being more grounded in reality or you like escapist fantasy. Lucifer does a nice spin on cops without as much questionable activity from the cops.... which, if you know anything about humans, they are flawed... hoping cops would be perfect is like expecting you to be perfect. its impossible... the show doesn't have time to focus on Chloe decker being a bad cop because it spends that time showing how Dan was a crooked cop and the important character is Lucifer (how strange that the titular character, his family and their relationship dynamics be the main focus of a story).

💕💕💕

Yeah honestly the cop heavy episodes are pretty boring. That's why the second half of season 5 is so much better than a lot of the show.

That was my first thought!! Do you think Derek Chauvin feels guilty about what he did? What about the other Killer Cops who never got caught/sentenced? Or members of the KKK or other hate groups? What about Ronald Reagan and his pals who ignored the HIV/AIDS epidemic because it was "gay cancer", or the politicians who are currently not giving a frick about COVID? A guilty conscience seems like a terrible way to determine if someone has done something "worth punishing"

you could make an interesting story about the system of those with guilty consciences going to hell and those without go to heaven, but youd have to be yknow, critical of that system.

It goes with the premise that everyone thinks they are good and is aware of what bad they do will eventually catch up to them. It's a pleasant fantasy, at least.

I think thats the point Lucifer often says that he didn't make hell he just works there when people complain.

yea it just sorta,,,ignores those people’s existence on purpose lol

There's a huge cultural difference. The way the Japanese judicial system works is that the prosecution almost *always* wins. Being a defense lawyer who wins is super rare so when it happens it's somewhat of a big deal.

The japanese got it diff since phoenix is always fighting an uphill battle against the prosecutor who is always favored to win

So basically, when two groups of people have an equal chance of winning and equal power, they have equal opportunity to be corrupt. When two people have unequal chances of winning and unequal power, they have an unequal chance of being corrupt. I want to say that "absolute power power corrupts absolutely," but if someone desperately scrambles to have power, then they are already corrupt.

In Japan they have something like a 99% conviction rate, and it sure as fuck isn't because their police are "just that good".

@@evelyncarr6421 You think it is really a lot different than in the US? The difference is taht in the US, those with a shit ton of money usually get away with it. Those without end up with "plea deals" even if they didn't do anything wrong.

I think it fits really well in the fact that he's a Neil Gaiman character and that in Good Omens Celestial Beings are just super British for no reason

In the 5th season he gets to play "Lucifer's twin", who's American and a total jerk.

@@npitzer Also, using "trunk" instead of "boot" is also a choice. American English is not more neutral than British English for a cosmic being. Coming from a complete different culture and language, this complaint seems egocentrical.

the british/american english part of the video is the only one i disagreed with kjgkfg;lfdkg;lfdk as a progressive linguist, i reject the idea of a "standard english", so i'm not even going to go there (though lots of traditional linguists are gonna tell you that what is essentially "queen's" english is the "standard" or even "correct" version of it). however, even without the standard, which lucifer could potentially turn to while speaking, choosing to say certain words is as much of a choice as picking a posh british accent over any other accent. and it actually makes a lot more sense for him to speak lexically with the same dialect as he chose to speak phonetically. so "boot" makes much more sense for him than "trunk" does.

He's Welsh.

Yeah… seems like the worst people are the ones that don’t feel guilty for terrible deeds

i feel like your optimism is clouding the pattern. lucifer doesnt want to examine the structure of current society, only condeming the current popular negative aspects. i think your interpretation is much more interesting, but extremely unlikly to be the direction the show goes in

i rlly hope that they head into that direction, i think lucifer’s greatest weakness is his cynicism. he’s seen what guilt does to otherwise good and decent people and figured the system of hell despite being flawed is some inherent function of the world that can’t Actually be changed. Its very much like how ppl view the justice system, and convicted criminals. it would be scarily tone deaf to show someone actually overcoming the guilt to get to heaven and then have lucifer carry on with hell as it currently functions

@@Bemused247 exactly. Serial killers don't see themselves in the wrong. Mentally disturbed criminals and sociopaths will end up not having guilt. So does Manson and domer just end up in heaven? It's sadly a large plot hole. Hitler feels guilty about losing the war and not making the master race successful, I highly doubt he cares about or feels guilt for millions of dead Jews.

Yeah there was an opportunity for comparison there that the show just never saw

I had no idea Gaiman created Lucifer holy shit how many things was this man involved in

He isn’t the creator of the Lucifer comics. He created the character in the Sandman, but Mike Carey expanded Lucifer.

@@moisuomi damn, my bad, dk why I mixed it up

@@luisjesus8668 It’s okay

@@tanadraws4412 TBF his Lucifer is not quite like this show, and the Lucifer comics even less so. Lucifer is not at all concerned about being good or evil there, he's more... a force of nature. His conscience is always clear, because killing billions is just nothing that matters to him.

I did wince a little about that aspect of Charlotte's "redemption arc".

It's like kangaroo courts are a bad thing, and that if the whole process isn't followed though properly it somehow becomes illegitimate, if not meaningless.

Yes, the creators of the show seem to dislike the fact that defendants have a right to a fair trial, which imho can be interpreted as hating the Bill of Rights. I’ve watched the show off and on for years, but the anti Constitution gets old after a while

That trope really leans into the idea that ‘bad people don’t deserve respect’ - i.e. human rights don’t count for people perceived as criminals

That also explains why Lucifer speaks with the accent: his only interaction with humanity for most of history has been through the people in Hell, so he picked up the most common accent.

​@@trianglemoebius 💀💀

@@trianglemoebius 💀💀

@@trianglemoebiusomg took me a min

​@@trianglemoebius ur diabolical lol

this sounds odd because most actors would have singing as a skill in their resume if they can, or at least in the states. there even used to be a trope of putting skills you dont have, including singing, on a resume to get ahead of the competition

@@Matty002 Apparently in the UK you either train for musical theater or for plain acting - they dont have crossovers like we do

He is.....Lucifer though. Like, the devil. So why is him being a jerk an issue?

@@Sellot91i'm thinking you havent seen the whole series

@@caraziegel7652 I have but I am not talking exclusively about this series. I mean, just the idea of Lucifer being a jerk in any entertainment medium kind of makes sense? He is Lucifer, after all. Even if he is not evil or is more complex morally being a jerk seems understandable.

As a children's librarian I'm super invested in how youth media can sway the opinions of kids and the importance of expansive, truth-first texts throughout media to allow them more autonomy as they grow. Which is a longwinded way of saying "agreed."

How did you comment 3 Days ago👁👄👁

@@christiana5453 patreon probably

@@JayHankEdLyon Yeah, that. Also, I wanna have an excuse to watch cute animated puppies.

@@JayHankEdLyon Yeah im a Junior Primary teacher. I have students who love paw patrol and also want to be cops. Theres a real narrative for children that cops are the 'good guys' and are safe people.

In the real world, there's no way he would be allowed to work with the police after the second episode. He constantly gets evidence without warrants, which would cause it to be thrown out, and gets confessions through intimidation, which is inadmissible.

@@daniusschratzius yeah but he uses his charm or whatever

@@daniusschratzius yh but is it really that innaccurate? the police is a mess so im not even suprised but the thing is i actually sort of like lucifer.

@@daniusschratzius If the DEVIL came to the real world and would use SUPERNATRUAL POWER to procure evidence without warrants,WHILE BEING IMMUNE TO BULLETS he would be surely thrown out of the police force. Brah

i have the opposite problem with chloe. i find it really weird that she is a gift from god, so "good" that lucifer falls for her, but like... she's just not a total piece of shit? does things by the book, doesn't advocate for human rights violations (which uhh, sometimes she does but whatever). which you know, i feel like is the bare minimum?

Honestly the funniest parts of the show are when he uses his charm on a suspect and they blurt out a desire unrelated to the case. Comedy gold every time 😂

that happens every epsiode, i promise lol, its a bit that you think would get old but most times it doesnt

They're in hell, but they aren't actively being punished because Hell has nothing to build off of. They're functionally on the "just visiting" tile, which really isn't that bad.

@@trianglemoebius just visiting for all eternity

You put into words how I have felt about the series. Great take

Calling it copaganda isn't helpfull. It destroys the nuanced view that gets across in this video. I know that us humans love categories we can put stuff into but it's not helpfull. Calling it copaganda will disturb many who might agree with you on a lot of the issues but still identify strongly with the show. It's a lot more helpfull to show what's problematic, to highlight what's good and to stimulate critical thinking in other people. Categorizing it as copaganda won't help in the long run, talking about the problems in nuances will.

@@robertschneider8808 I agree with what you're saying, but the show does have elements of "copaganda" in it, and that's what I was trying to say! Sorry if it wasn't clear.

yeah it has elements in it that you could call copaganda but I think it's important to make the distinction between a show that's just pure propaganda and a show that has some blindspots and isn't critical in every way we would like to see. Pointing out the flaws is far more helpfull than branding it with a label.

Oh that is pretty funny when you see how different lucifer is compared to the comic. Where they only used like the first 3 issues to make the show. Ignoring everything else

Yeah that’s the general arc I’ve been seeing too. Not sure what the point of any of it is if that isn’t where they are going

That would be nice. Hopefully they watch this video.

Following up a year later, this is EXACTLY where it led with Lucifer understanding that his role in Hell was supposed to be as a Healer as opposed to a Torturer.

@@oremfrienI saw this video today, having seen season six months ago, and found myself mostly agreeing but occasionally going ‘I seem to remember they kinda addressed this’

They address it, but poorly in my eyes, the redemtion of lucifer doesnt appear to be well thought out

agreed, but idk how well theyre gonna write the amenadiel storyline, but his character has been used super well to point issues at unfairness, i guess a naive new to the world character suits those stories well innit

@@connorbovingdon8563 I agree. Do you think Amen will change his mind and become God?? Because we all know that Lucifer is going to pull a Hercules and become mortal for his love

I think the big issue with his analysis is that he wrote it before the last season finishes. Thematically, any television show really ties itself together in the last episodes. *shrugs* We don't know what the show is going to do with these storylines, really...

I don't think he missed the point, I think he just identified what the story says, as opposed to what the story was TRYING to say or WANTS to say.

Coming back to this comment after season six aired just to express my contentment with being right

100% agreed! :)

Lucifers accent in the show isn't RP - it is closer to Estuary English (eg a mix of high class RP and lower class cockney) - now spoken by most middle/working class white natives in London and the SE of England.

​@@DJHyperreal regardless, he does sound like the stereotypical British accent that a lot of people fetishize.

@@DJHyperreal Tom's Lucifer definitely sounds more RP to me. As opposed to like, famously, Adele.

1° Bad guy is always a british accent 2° If Lucifer were to visit Earth before the show takes place, my bet is London...

well the question is it possible for a show about crime fight be it cops, superhero, monster hunter, hard boiled detective to not be copaganda

@@jonsmith9838 persona 5 counts as one and persona strikers basically one of the main threats in those games are cops and they do a lot of terrible stuff and shown to be corrupt...

pffffft. the delusion

@@jonsmith9838 I know, over a year old comment, but I'd like to ask what in this circumstance you'd classify as "copaganda"?

@@GermanLeftist Something like Blue Blood, where the dinner table scenes is them paratoing talking points and sometime they strawman the other side. Or stuff with rouge cops, where some leftis lawyer preventing them from GETTING THE JOB DONE. and maybe the hero cops bending the rules a lot to get the Job done.. Stuff like that

That's what I thought..but the comic and the show couldn't be further apart.

As a British person, I can reveal that demons are all British. Specifically, English

On top of that Lucifer's actor Tom Ellis is British; so it makes sense that Tom uses his natural British accent while in character. From what I have observed the reason why a lot of women enjoy watching "Lucifer" is because they think Tom Ellis is handsome. There's an episode of "Thirst Tweets" by BuzzFeed where Tom Ellis read thirsty tweets from equally thirsty fans.

What the hell IS the "Riverdale industrial complex"??

@@pyromaniac2104 exactly what it says on the tin

@@Gloomdrake ...this doesn't help

@@pyromaniac2104 you're welcome

@@pyromaniac2104 now you are starting to get it.

First off, Linda is absolutely the best. And secondly, that’s literally what I always thought the second I heard how they described hell in this show!!! I can’t count the amount of times I was like “well your hell is bull shit because it doesn’t matter what level of “bad” you were, as long as you have a little bit of guilt over something in your life, you get dragged down with no hope of escaping by relieving yourself of guilt, because you’re constantly in a loop of getting tortured by the guilt that sent you there in the first place.” Like the very concept is unreasonably cruel. Kinda like how in *THE GOOD PLACE (spoilers)*, it was essentially impossible to get sent to the good place because the inter workings of the world is so complicated that no matter how hard you try to be good, your good acts could have some connection to bad actions, which negate your score far more than the good act effected you positively. So I was literally constantly asking Lucifer why he wasn’t doing anything to help coax people out of their guilt (when their guilt wasn’t bad enough for them to be tortured for… well… ever…), ESPECIALLY after he himself got trapped in a hell loop, and after he willingly returned to hell to protect earth, after realizing that humans were much more than the scum he thought they were, and after many many many many helpful sessions with Linda. So that’s why I was so ecstatic in the season 5 finale when we found out that Lucifer actually helped that robber, who he kept stripping naked, out of his hell loop while he was trying to prove a point. I was literally screaming like “YES!!! YES EXACTLY!!! YOU COULD’VE BEEN DOING THAT ALL ALONG!!!”. He had this whole journey of self discovery about how he wasn’t a truly evil person, but he never applied that to how he ruled over hell.

Well, people go to hell for a reason, that's why it's there, to punish people

@@jeagerkej3171 not everyone deserves to be punished for all eternity. Even we don't send every criminal in prison for life.

Damn that's a good point

In Lucifer's defense, he didn't know people could redeem themselves and get to Heaven.

And then its the exact same thing every time.

True, but he does constantly assault suspects that are supposed to be questioned, and then decker's like '' nu Lucy pls don't do that' but then doesn't intervene or anything, I feel like after the first few seasons they treat it as a given that he's gonna physically assault people

@@iamlaura02 You're right....but also what is she gon do to him? He's literally the devil. The only reason he's vulnerable around her is like he said in the video, if she say - tried to shoot him and he didn't want to be shot, it would work about as well as it does otherwise. Same with subduing him. I think they lean into the eyeroll trope partly for comedic purposes yknow too like "here goes lucy again"

In the very first episode, they made it clear he just quit but, they elude throughout the show that Lucifer has visited Earth before. It's actually weirder that all the angels have New England accents instead. Since the English accent had been around since mideval times and the angels are as old as the earth itself if not older.

@@rainmirron Well, yes, but actually no. Sure, there were English accents in medieval times, but it was not what you'd now call an English accent. A modern English accent is _much_ closer to a New England accent than it is to a medieval English accent. You probably couldn't understand medieval English. You could make out some things on occasion, but that's true of, say, German as well.

He stopped by Earth in the 60s or so, according to the episode covering his first week or so in the present day

@2ndBookofLaughter yup! But he had a previous visit, however brief

So apparently a few years back... lucifer leaving hell and settling on earth with a jazz club was actually part of the storyline in Neil Gaiman's sandman comics.

If Amenadiel (who is largely still very niave about the human world) joining to police doesn't lead to a brutal destruction of his vision of the system being good, please come remind me how wrong I am.

@@fiction- my expectations are like non existent considering this is a show that eye rolls police brutality committed by their characters and this being the final season means they're probably going to spend a lot of time with like nostalgia and typing up things, but if they do have the guts to pull off something like that it would be interesting to see

@@faithh2366 damn y’all blood thirsty

But why? 12% of police officers are black.

@@faithh2366 I hope they don't give Amenadiel too hard a time. It would be sad to see him lose his innocence and sweetness.

yes!

Absolutely!

I'd love to see him do that.

I never thought about it like that! Based on the show, the main problem with restorative justice is that once you're done, you have no villains left and you have to go look for new ones every season, each worse than the previous one, yet each eventually seeing things your way.

@@tommihorttana860 which seems like more of a writing problem than a justice problem. I’d have loved to see them take it in the direction of “ok, so I lured my aunt here for therapy, please help she won’t stop making ice castles” “I take it that’s why there’s an ice castle at my summer camp?” “Yes, and… why is she feeding children? Where did she get ice cream?”

i dont wanna be a buzzkill, but i think that lucifer is going to ignore that aspect of the world they built, and just focus on the characters having endings. I feel as if that guy will be the only example the show gives of redemtion, to give the implication that its possible. i think i might have been burnt a couple too many times by shows with these really interesting dilemas being swept away because the writers stumbled into complexity and stumble right back out

@@PropheticShadeZ Maybe if it was another show, but Lucifer always makes moments like these important later on, especially if it happened in the finale. They have a whole season to develop stuff like this. They wouldn’t just explicitly have a previously hell-punished character show up in heaven, explicitly say “YOU Lucifer helped me come to terms with my guilt, and YOU are the reason why I was the first soul to ever make it from hell into heaven.” And then just not do anything with it lmao. If it’s Lucifer, or if it’s someone else ruling over hell, I think the new process of souls going to hell is that they’re going to see if they’re able to overcome their guilt through basically hell therapy (like what Lucifer did with the robber), and if they can, they’ll be granted access to heaven. The show wouldn’t just drop something that’s clearly an important historical event. The first human to make it out of Hell, after Lucifer helped them on accident, and now knows it’s possible when their given the right push? Yeahhhh that’s only gonna happen once lmao. This show has never shied away from complex scenarios.

Bc that’s basically the whole point of the show?

@@ifuckedurmom I mean in general, not for this show in particular

yh i never thought about that. as if taking part in a horrible system will make your problems go away.

Rehabilitation over incarceration. I like it.

And that is may the reason why they were cancelled the first time around, because they basically they double down and triple down in the theme of police corruption, corporations and the police really not like when shows speak about that issue, when that happen, either the police get a slap in the wrists or get flagged as red apple, since the beginning, Chloe was a pariah in the Police Department because she was against corruption, no one wanted be paired with her, until Lucifer come along.

laughing at the naming style of these shows

Sherlock too

In all fairness, Psych is basically anti-copaganda. Yeah, there's the comedy element of the police being incompitnent, but overall it's clear: Shawn should NOT be working with the police and is only kept around because the department enjoys the results. Also the whole thing about Shawn's dad abusing him to try and mold the "perfect detective", which - while it pays off and the CHARACTERS are clearly okay with it - is never suggested as a good thing to the audience.

@@gil5885 tinker, sailor, soldier, psych, monk, castle, bones

YES. This is such a phenomenon. There are SO MANY shows like this. And most of these were a little before my time but I think Bones enjoyed a big viewership for many years?

So in the adaptation they were going to keep the least important aspects of the series?

i would love to see at the very least an episode on cop shows that are also period dramas-not sure if there are other shows besides Murdoch Mysteries, but if there are, it would be really interesting to see copaganda merge with pre-modern policing.

I love that show

Sociopaths partying in heaven.

Ikr it's so tone deaf

@@aidschbe that isnt the worst part. deciding to not punish people at all for things they can't be expected to understand as wrong isn't unreasonable. It is unreasonable to punish people who can't help but think they did something wrong when they objectively didn't. See doctors blaming themselves for failing to save a patient as an example. Or unhealthy people committing suicide that likely underestimate their self worth and blame themselves irrationally. This would swipe in people with PTSD and mental disorders that distinctly aren't violent or resulting in a person that is destructive

@@moona3206 it's supposed to be dumbass

This account for the plot of the show

Who is the "we" who elect the sheriff? And between what options do we choose? Not that I wholeheartedly disagree, but there is no democracy when civil society is owned by the bourgeoisie, the poor are excluded (either de jure or de facto) from voting, and the options are inherently limited by our basic notions of what a sheriff's job is.

@@Salsmachev how are poor people excluded from Voting?

Barney!

@@Makarosc Many voter ID laws are a combination of de jure and de facto barriers (de jure in that the law creates the barrier to voting, de facto in that poor people struggle to meet that barrier) and the fact that poor people often don't have the time and energy to vote (let alone vote carefully) because they have to constantly work to survive is a huge de facto barrier to voting. There are also other issues like the criminalisation of poverty, crimes of survival, and nonviolent vice crimes (along with unequal enforcement of the last against poor communities, and especially poor communities of colour) which may lead to having voting rights revoked (again, a combination of de jure and de facto barriers). Historically, the law has been less subtle about it, as well (eg. property requirements for voting, so-called literacy tests, voting fees, and disenfranchisement of disproportionately poor communities). There are probably other sneaky ways, but these are the obvious ones I was thinking of when I wrote that comment. That said, I think the worse offence is the way that our options are culled before we even get to cast votes. When elections are won and lost in an arena owned by the bourgeoisie and our very notion of who should run for office and what the office entails are shaped by bourgeois media, then it really doesn't matter who gets to vote.

@@Salsmachev most states don't have those and most of the ones who do aren't strict like most will except a valid driver's license also yeah usually candidates are limited to the two major parties but under your system it's just one and there's still an aristocracy in the form of the Vanguard

i think its more "why wouldnt he adopt the the accent/words of the country hes staying at"

@@theloveandcookiesgal because why would he need to, he knows being british in america will add to his appeal, he wants to stand out not fit in perfect

@@connorbovingdon8563 im not saying he needs to nor do i care, its obviously a stylistic choice that enhances his characterization in the show. it just doesnt make a lot of sense in the world of the show

@@theloveandcookiesgal I'm literally explaining why it makes sense in the show tho, it's his character, he went British so he would stand out more in America, if he was just another American in a suit he wouldn't have the same appeal 🤷‍♂️

right, like he's not British but he's not American either, he's not from Earth, why would he adopt a specific dialect as the "default"

Same!

There's a powerful taboo against celestials killing humans.

i think your past of being attracted to problematic things can be used as a way to empathise with those who fall further into ideas that appeal to their emotions.

I’d love to see this covered, as someone who grew up in the 2000s on a steady diet of spy-related media (Alias, 24, Chuck, Burn Notice, Covert Affairs… which are pretty vastly different shows. Never got into Nikita but that would count as well). The topic easily ties into some of the subjects he touched on in the superheroes episode with regards to the US as a global police force.

Covert Affairs!

Jackson deserves so much more attention our boy is so damn talented!

Really, and who’s to say what Lucifer’s accent is anyway. I don’t think delving into accents of supernatural beings has anything to with his whole premise of copaganda

@@rachelgarber1423 He didn't delve into it and it doesn't matter if he did. The video is primarily about copaganda but that doesn't mean we can't talk about things related to the show.

An epsidoe about the Americans would be absolutely amazing

some people do like the storyline but as someone who did the very same thing well don't expect too much from that storyline..... it's.. well not very fleshed out and they do not spend much time on it either. just saying cause it can be disappointing especially if you're gonna watch so many eps for it

@@roza2633 Wow.

@@lecherouslibrarian9924 The cute moments are extremely cute though, Eve. I broke your heart? That's awesome. Maze: gives her a look. Eve. I meant... That's awful.

@@alanpennie8013 Thanks.

Just curious, in what way?

@@arnoldfreeman2885 In general, the whole military-run "exploration" vessel which coincidentally also does a lot of fighting (or, if you will, policing) just sits a lot less comfortably with me now than when I was a child. Although I generally agree with Picard's actions, I can't help but think of how concentrated the power is within Starfleet and how much power Starfleet holds within the Federation, making a terrifyingly militaristic society. Most contact with other planets is done via Starfleet and disobeying a superior officer's orders is an extreme offense that requires an ironclad legal justification, which is hard as officials have a _lot_ of leeway to do as they please. This means a lot of power within the Federation is held within a small group of admirals that were not elected and generally keep their position for life. And iirc although TNG does have a few episodes dealing with officials giving bad orders, usually this is either an alien incursion or a bad apple. The system as a whole is rarely critiqued and never to the point where they come close to considering changing it. In fact, Starfleet is often put on a pedestal as a morally good organization. Let me also give one example that sent shivers down my spine. In Datalore (season one, where Lore is introduced) Riker ordered Wesley, a literal child, to spy on Data before anything bad or suspicious has happened. Wesley says, "Yes, sir!" and walks off with a huge smile on his face, happy to have been ordered to spy on his close friend, as the camera pans to show an extra who is also smiling as if it's cute. That's a thoroughly indoctrinated child and the show doesn't even realize it. I'm nowhere near finished yet, so I'm curious to see how my thoughts change. It's still a lot of fun to watch.

I feel like that would have been interesting, yes, but also... Cain in Lucifer absolutely committed generations worth of crime and murders after that to feel guilt over...