As a Black woman I dont appreciate warped unrealistic depictions of history, that erase black womens experiences. Notably with regards to the film 'The Beguiled' if Sofia or any other white person didnt want to depict slavery and privileged slave owning white women perhaps it's best not to make films about the American civil war or any of the 400years of American history then. The only reason why depictions of black women as slaves seem so prevalant is because there is a distinct lack of positive nuanced depictions of black women in cinema. Sofia could have collaborated with black director, writers, producers, the real reason why she does not depict black women in her films is because she doesnt want to, she rather perpetuate the blond white ideal of beauty and white femininity over and over again. Ideally there just needs to be more non-white women directors

It makes me uncomfortable how overly feminine films are criticized for having no masculine elements yet overly masculine films are often overrated and *never* criticized for having no feminine elements.

so no one's gonna talk about how wes anderson is literally praised as a genius and a visionary for his art style but coppola is bashed for the same "pretty" aesthetic???

"Only for girls and gays" Okay, and? Is it illegal to have a demographic?

Since watching Marie Antoinette, I always felt like Sofia Coppola should make a movie about the 4 Romanov girls ; Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia. I feel like she’s the only one who could truly capture their spirit, and their experience in girlhood

The scene from The Virgin Suicides that truly resonated with me was when Lux woke up in the football field to find she had been abandoned by the guy who had won her heart only to toss it away as soon as he got what he truly wanted: her body. She finally gets home only to be slapped across the face by her mother. For me, this defined girlhood.

"What do the Beguiled, Marie Antoinette and The Virgin Suicides have in common?" I don't know, Kirsten Dunst?

"the kind of women who say no but men hear yes"--LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE WOMAN

I think Marie Antoinette is a masterpiece. The choice to show none of the suffering and anger of the French people is deliberate and essential to its theme. We, the audience, know what is going on outside the privileged lives of the royal court but she is blissfully ignorant. I always read it very much as a reflection of growing up as part of Hollywood royalty.

Men are not slammed for writing about themselves. Why is Sofia?

Film critics often praise the gesture of 'show don't tell'. Like you mentioned there are many shots in Coppola's films that clearly show you how the characters are feeling. It's just hypocritical to just label it as a lack of substance when the portrayal is done with soft pastel colours and young women as characters.

i remember when I first watched The Virgin Suicides, I was around 13 years old and what made me the saddest while having had watched this film, is knowing that everyone in town saw these young women as nothing more than just frivolous teens until they passed and i felt even after their passing, they still didn’t understand the kaleidoscopic emotions and feelings to being a young woman i’m latina and grew up in a predominately black community, so it was almost comforting to know that these young white ‘privileged’ girls, what society has showed as most redeeming, still felt obscured and tossed aside but it was the worst type of comfort because although you’re glad you’re not alone, you would never wish other young girls to feel just as exploited, criticized, and driven to their own deaths and this movie and the way it was shot, which i felt was so natural and authentic, made me come to terms with what i already knew but didn’t want confirmed at such a young age that women will never be enough on society’s term, just a constant fight between of not being enough or being too much

I remember being 15 years old at the doctor's while feeling heavily depressed and this 40 yo man told me " you have such a depressed sad beauty that boys love". Now im 25 and only now understand it.

"But as the queen, she's expected to shine--be better, prettier, more stylish, more vivacious, until she's vilifed for it." It could be said for all of us women...damned if you do, damned if you don't. Damned for not meeting impossible expectations, and damned for meeting/exceeding them.

Speaking as a Black woman, I'm actually relieved that she dropped the two Black female characters in The Beguiled. Black women in movies /TV set in the Antebellum South are usually portrayed as de-sexed mammy types meant to prop up the graceful feminity of White female protagonists. I don't have enough faith that it would be different in her adaptation - especially as her 1st time working with a POC female character. I've seen enough movies about slavery and struggle - I think its time that onscreen portrayals of Black people explore something else.

"But as the queen, she's expected to shine -- be better, prettier, more stylish, more vivacious -- until she's vilified for it." I feel like this is why a woman has a hard time finding a balance for herself between her personal appearance and her profession/career. If she dedicates too much time to her appearance, the mostly patriarchal professions will not notice her for her talent. If she looks like she doesn't dedicate enough time on her appearance, she will be labelled as "Plain Jane". Every woman wants to be taken serious for her talent, and not for her appearance. But she also runs the risk of being criticised by those who might think she only got to where she is in her career because of her appearance, and not because of her talent. Why should a woman have to give up one or the other? Why should she have to choose between the two?

as a girl with insanely strict parents yet grew up in a comfortable family, there's something about the virgin suicides that resonates with me

Men can be too quick to assume what they do not understand must not exist.

This is why I often say Issa Rae is so important because she was the first time I truly saw myself on the screen Not a slave. Not a superhero. Just a girl struggling with finding her purpose in her 20s. I love this analysis y'all! That part about the pressure of speaking for everyone because she's usually is the only woman in the room made me feel for her.

when i heard “sophia coppola should have included a slave character in her movie so black women could see themselves depicted in a soft feminine way” i had to pause and exit the video. like that’s genuinely one of the worst justifications for representation i’ve ever heard. like not to hate on you or your content but please just think that sentence through for a moment

Writing 'feminine' stories and emotions is actually harder. It is much easier to write a thriller or even a critical piece. The women who can invoke the delicate emotions, of love, of betrayal or helplessness and hopelessness through sheer imagery - the delicate balance of agency and restraint in the protagonist are truly masterful.

I have to disagree with the thoughts on her Marie Antoinette film. It's one of my favorite movies because one of my favorite books is Secrets of Marie Antoinette: A Collection of Letters, which I am guessing Sofia must have read before making her film. In those letters, that Marie wrote herself, mostly to her mother, it was apparent that she really was just a clueless young woman not capable of being a strong leader. She amazingly would often complain of her or her husband having stomach aches from eating too many pastries and drinking hot chocolate. She always wrote off any stresses of her political responsibilities, probably so her mother wouldn't worry. I am almost certain Sofia read this book because of the mother's narration in the film through letters. We often see historical figures as these glorious beings, so far from being human because they have gone down in history, but these letters showed that Marie was human. Years after I read that book, Sofia's Marie Antoniette came out and I loved it. In my experience, it seems strongly based on that book which was in fact historical representation written in Marie's own words about her personal thoughts on life during her private moments. I think people were expecting some type of political war drama, but it was focusing on Marie's secluded emotions. Maybe Sofia's niche is the lonely confused girl, but Marie Antoinette was actually a lonely and confused girl so it was a perfect film for her to direct, and she that seamlessly.

As an avid fan and defender of Sofia Coppola, I find it insane how people seem to put her down just to elevate her father and his status. Sofia does have a problem with POC representation, but so does the majority of iconic directors in this industry, those being mostly white, cis, straight men. As a POC myself, I’m really confident that Sofia will grow from that criticism, specially considering how sensitive and subtle she can handle difficult topics. But again, pointing your fingers to the one woman in the room and claiming that she’s the only racist in there just shows that prejudice has more than one single form.

Are there any movies directed by POC with the “pretty aesthetic?” We can hope that Coppola does better with poc in the future but we can’t rely on her, she’s a rich, white woman who grew up extremely privileged. What is she going to know about poc experiences? Let’s instead support POC directors and encourage their visions.

I watched virgin suicides 3 weeks ago and I think about it every night before I go to bed. Something about it haunts me, and it’s because of how much I resonate with the film. It’s almost as if I am horrified that I could relate to such depressing material - how could I, a supported young woman feel as hopeless as these trapped girls? I suppose I am shocked that there is such a film that encapsulates the suffering of being a young girl so accurately. The Lisbon sisters were always supported. But it was through this support they were trapped. Trapped by the men that chased them, trapped by their parents for wanting to protect their innocence. I feel with the Lisbon sisters as I am trapped by the need I am told I must have for male validation. That I must be beautiful to look at but still intelligent and self resilient. I cannot be to loud, to confident, but if I am not individualistic then I am boring and undesirable. I am trapped by people telling me what to do and trying to protect me just as the Lisbon sisters were. I am trapped by the support I am supposed to be grateful for but that ultimately suffocates me. Sofia speaks to girls like me. Her work will live on me forever. They make me feel less alone, more understood, and are beautiful universal visualizations of the truly confusing existence of being a girl.

Kinda weird how Marie Antoinette was apparently criticised for bending history to benefit emotional and thematic resonance... when 2018's "The Favourite" was applauded for the exact same thing. Not implying that The Favourite is a bad film or deserves such criticism! (I love both movies.) Just pointing out the difference in critical reception. I hope this is just 'cause tastes have changed between 2006 vs 2018.

Just one thing. Imagine her movies being made by a male director.. celebrated genius of Hollywood.

You can't really fault Coppola for the lack of diversity in her films because, like you said, her characters come from a place she knows and has lived through. Diversifying the cast for the sake of diversity would ultimately fail because it is unlikely she'd do those characters any justice. It's best to leave those narratives to directors of colour that can actually do it and do it well.

Is this where all the intelligent women meet on youtube? I feel like my mind has grown from reading some of these comments 🤯

This has the be the comment section with the most intelligent and thoughtful responses I've ever found, I love it here

I understand the concept of only "writing what you know" and Sofia seems honest as to why she excluded the slave character, but something rubs me the wrong way when everyone in the comments is defending "only writing what you know" when historical period films rely on the director delving into something that they most definitely don't know about first hand, yet they still take on the challenge. Why don't more directors take on that challenge with POC characters?

As a black woman im actually relieved she didn’t put black slaves in. Media is powerful and seeing black people in slavery is played out and affects us in ways some of my fellow black girls don’t understand. The “strong black woman” trope is tiring and dangerous. Good on her for seeing her limitations and not pushing it.

As a Black woman, Sofia is the last person on earth that should be writing about things she doesn’t know, like, Black people. Additionally, I am tired of the ‘strong’ Black woman trope so that softness would not have shown through in the Beguiled for a Black character.

One of the girly shows that is set in historic turmoil that I love the most is Derry Girls. It's set in northern Ireland in the 80s and it's mail characters are girly girls in a religious all girls school. It's really good and I recommend it to everyone.

I am caribbean so maybe my comprehension of skin color might be different from the american perspective but Sofia Coppola is my favorite director and being a black person watching her films (because of how delicately she deals with the topic of being a confused, sad, and lonely as a girl) it calls my attention how she relates perfect blonde super pale white blue eyes females with her stories when she doesn't even look like that. I think sofia c has so much dependency on how she understands (maybe for laziness who knows) that her kind of delicate portraits of women can only be shown trough the eyes of that kind of females because thats the only people she understands than can be like that, not even the ones that look more like her and I think that is the reason why she doesnt feel comfortable doing things with other skin colors.

I think we should not delegate representation of young black women to Sofia Coppola, who is extremely good in her representation of what is her experience and what she knows, but can't objectively depict the stuggles of young p.o.c women because she doesn't know them, being a white, privileged woman. There should be more space for more female directors, and especially for the plenty of talented women of colour ready to tell their stories and depict them truthfully. One woman should not have the burden to represent anyone simply because the industry is too sexist to even think about let more than one woman be famous and recognized on a worldwide level.

Coppola, when she restricts her storytelling to what she knows, is showing respect to the minorities with which she is unfamiliar. She prefers not to misrepresent people's narratives and I appreciate that. It shows how sensitive she is to their walks of life and the fact that outsiders can never truly understand what they go through, much less tell their stories. As a man, it took me a while to learn this. But I am not the person to say which is best between misrepresentation and erasure for this exact reason. Great video!

She is actually a truly great mind. But just because she was born a rich woman everyone is Hellbent on making her out to be this shallow silly girl. Poor thing. Also I don’t think she is not inclusive. She is being respectful. She knows it’s not her place to write about other women’s experiences. It is the right, educated thing to do.

Can't ever believe Kirsten Dunst never won a Grammy. One of the absolute best best actors,hands down.🥰

Sofia Coppola and Wes Anderson: We're not twins, we're not even sisters, we're just gender-swapped versions of each other

everyone who disparages sofia coppola but loves other aesthetic-focused male directors like her ex Spike Jonze or Wes Anderson should really wonder why they have it so hard to relate to girls in the same social/economic landing as their male counterparts. i have never watched a sofia coppola film whole. recently i saw the three godfather movies and indeed, her acting was really bad and im sure (comparing it to winona ryder's acting in dracula) the originally cast actress couldnt have done much better anyway. it was a badly written role from the start, one with potential but with no actual personality beyond "martyr". i have seen ten minutes of lost in translation, an hour and a half of marie antoinette and an hour of the virgin suicides. the latest one actually hooked me in; it gave me this feeling of unease and unpredictability ive grown to expect from people like lynch. theres a strong alienation indeed, one that ive seen in other movies like fight club, yet more aesthetized as in american beauty and american psycho (both relating to apparently a very "american" feeling) but while those two movies are deeply entrenched on masculine social mores (and id go even further and say that american beauty does little to actually reach any conclusion regarding it, while american psycho, directed by a woman, is much more able to see masculinity through a different lens), sofia coppolas movies do touch on experiences that i seldom see in movies; limited to disney princess musicals, short music videos, a couple forgotten teen movies. mind you, my teenage experience was very, very unlike the characters of sofia coppola's (im not from the US, im not pretty and blonde, i am not likable or thin and being a teen in the 2000s meant awful fashion choices) but the ennui, the one which i could only find in male characters at the movies, was there. i honestly dont know why sofia coppola remade the beguiled when the most obvious choice for her was to remake picnic at hanging rock (another rookie mag teenage fantasy beloved). i think she must be the only director in hollywood who gets what not even its own horny director could understand about it: behind the mystery and the beauty theres the desire to escape. thats why people watch her, their movies in the first place.

It's so gross how Coppola's "pretty" and "girlish" aesthetic has always been instantly regarded as "vapid", ONLY BECAUSE it's an aesthetic that stereotypically parallels girlhood. Like, people disregard it as if it has no value only because, on a surface level, it matches their preconceptions of gender. So, what, a girl can't release a "girly" movie without it being regarded as "girly"? Why can't it be regarded as the CREATIVE CHOICE that it is? I guarantee if a dude was to release a film with an aesthetic like that, critics would be quick to analyse and deconstruct the 'meaning' behind it, even if it has none. And if a dude releases a film that is overly masculine, no one bats an eye at the possibility that it might be totally vapid (most blockbusters are examples of this). Sofia Coppola has proven herself an excellent director, CLEARLY. I just feel terrible that, while men are praised for bold directorial choices, she is disregarded purely on the basis of her gender.

POC representation shouldn't be sofia's responsibility especially since she's so idiosyncratic for writing purely and truly exactly what she knows. I think to bring in the awareness of the underclass, minorities or slaves would've distracted from her point of view of privileged obliviousness she's showing - we never even saw the revolutionaries in marie antoinette, our focus still remained on her and what she was feeling which was fear for herself at the time. A self absorbed point of view of this enclosed space is what you get from a sofia coppola movie so why try and change her instead of watching directors who will show what you want? It's also patronising to assume everyones going to react to art as if it were propaganda, my sympathies are still going to lie with the underclass of france lmao. Point of views are in abundance and they shouldn't instill a sense of lacking in you for your own. You can see the oppressors side and still go back to your life knowing they're an oppressor its ok.

I'd actually rather not be a slave again (not me specifically but I'm sure you get it) I can't feel empowered by the same thing every single time, I'm tired of being seen as "the strong black woman" all the time, I wanna be delicate because I am delicate. It's not that I'm weak and don't want to be strong, it's just that I can't be strong all the time y'know?

This was a great multi-facetted look at a director which didn't ignore her problematic aspects like racism and nepotism. I do want to suggest that the reason so many women in positions of power got there due to nepotism is because other avenues to success, already narrow for anyone, are all but closed to women. Becoming a producer and director requires buy ins from big rich guy run studios, who have to see you as a sort of genius leader, qualifications women aren't usually seen as possessing. I mean that doesn't really bear on Coppola's competence at all, just a side thought: there's gatekeeping at work. It also occured to me watching this how art produced by women is almost always interpreted through the lens of looking at the woman's individual life, while work produced by men (or, well, white men) is usually dis-associated from the individual and looked at as being a part of society, etc, maybe because the experience of white men is so normalized that it becomes invisible in the work. This is a phenomenon that's been written about before as it pertains to other female artists.

"You're entranced with the beauty of these films as you're watching them, and struck with melancholy for days after" Oh my God YES. I watched the virgin suicides twice a few years apart and both times I felt melancholic and strangely sad and apathetic for 2 days after. And I knew it was the movie. Sophie's movie have such an impact I cannot explain!

personally the virgin suicides and marie-antoinette are both two of my favorite films, I absolutely adore her soft aesthetic and as a black woman I took alot of inspiration from them. im still a bit new into this film exploration and learning all the film directors and such but i plan on becoming a film director myself and creating my own show about the struggles of growing up, loneliness and addiction and it's very exciting for me, i will bring black representation to the screen in ways i hardly see spoken about

Marie Antoinette is still one of the most beautiful films I’ve ever seen. Every scene is marvelous. Eye candy with a mix of sadness. Oh, and the soundtrack is badass.

I find it surprising that the word "melancholy" wasn't used to describe her films until the very end of the video. I think that is very important.

I hate how women in many industries (music, films) are expected to reinvent year after year, while men in their fields remain the same after years

The entire idea of being a director is writing what you know, which literally all of them do, not just Sofia Coppola. Why should we expect a depiction of what being a black girl is like from somebody that has only experienced all the different paths of privilege and whatever that was like? I wouldn't be able to understand the depth of what living her life has been like, why blame her for not knowing mine?

Coppola follows one of the most basic rules when writing. Write about what you know. And that's a smart thing. She knows her talents and limitations and that I something important. She has the ability to situate a story in aesthetic environments while narrating situations and characters full of deep emotions that find themselves in moments of transition and self awareness. Ultimately, what she tells us is that "pretty things can be full of sadness or melancholia". Which is something that she's incredibly aware of. Sadness and unfulfillment in plain sight when you have a beautiful atmosphere are difficult to identify. And that, in my opinion, is what she's trying to convey.

I remember seeing Marie Antoinette when I was 17 years old or so. I didn't particularly liked it (nor my girlfriend at the time did), and I found it to be specially slow and boring. Now, almost 15 years later, I can still recall ir vividly; even though I haven't watched it again since. And on those almost 15 years, thinking about that movie (randomly and sparingly), I believe I reached on my own the same conclusions as you did. It now has a special place in my heart, and I love the way that you covered it.

Lana is a great artist in my estimation and she's asking questions a bit awkwardly and naively - but that's how people learn. As a feminist and a woman of colour I embrace her and hopes she realises there is definitely a place in feminism for her.

Imagine how good it could be if Sofia Coppola joined together with a black director, producer, story teller, author, and provided her beautiful aesthetic dreamscapes but for a story told by a black woman. I think it's a collaboration that would be stunning- not a white woman telling that story on behalf of black women, but having the story told to her and putting it into the vision that's been detailed.

If Quentin Tarantino can remake the same movie about sex bad violence, we can all deal with Sofia

here's the weird thing: I never saw her work as "girly"... just quiet, moody, and evokes that weird sort of dread that an adult would feel when looking at a kid about to screw up like he/she did when he/she was at that age oh, and she's a master at putting the perfect soundtrack for scenes

I think directors kinda forget that diversity includes not only color but also size and texture. Growing up I never saw anyone in movies who had my skin or wore my size dresses. But I can see that's all changing slowly but surly.

I love how art from the female perspective involves the inner turmoil that women experience trying to understand their place within the patriarchy. Virginia Woolf relates this as well as Bronte with the downfall of their characters when they fail to do so. I feel Sofia nails this concept beautifully.

10:30 black woman seeing themselves in a coppola movie and as soft & feminine would be wonderful. I miss this kind of media representation. I just found out that she scraped a black & biracial women and i am disappointed.

I guess there is nothing wrong to show women vulnerabilities in the essence of "soft pink" aesthetic picturesque. There is strength in that despite her incapability to show adequate number of people of color. There is depth in every surface, and Sofia Coppola managed that through the uncertainty of being a teenage girl.

When I read and hear men critiquing Coppola's movies by saying that they are just shallow depictions of beauty, I really pity them. Sofia Coppola is so good at portraying the inner thoughts, often despair, of characters through cinematography, it must be sad to not get to enjoy that mastery.

This is the best KZfaq video I’ve watched in a really long time. From the script to the editing style to the sound quality. Please keep up the good work 💗 hope to see more of you in the future

I feel like while Coppola does this with white female adolescence euphoria manages to do this for a much more diverse set of teens. She puts her own personal lens into perspective which gives her an advantage for certain things but I think we need to recognize the nuances in her work. She can’t be responsible for everyone we need to let more women in with different point of views to capture what it means to be woman.

There’s just no way she can go right. If she had included a slave in The Beguiled she would have been criticized for not portraying her correctly. Also what’s wrong with only portraying what you know? I think that’s the most humble position you can take. She can’t speak for people less privileged than her because she doesn’t know what their reality is like. She sticks to speak about her privilege in a way that is self-criticizing which I think is the smartest thing she could do.

This is an excellent video essay! I've only seen two of Sofia Coppola's films, Lost in Translation and Marie Antoinette. I believe your analysis of Marie Antoinette is spot-on, and as she did with LiT a few years earlier, Coppola is able to make you feel what the character is feeling through her use of the camera coupled with the images she presents. Curiously I've never had a chance to see The Virgin Suicides (though I've always wanted to) and missed out on The Beguiled, but I want to see them now more than ever based on your analysis. It's troubling to me that her reasoning for not including the Black characters in her adaptation of The Beguiled is that she wouldn't do them justice. I think, if anything, the least you could is do some research, include them in the movie, and trust your actors and story-telling abilities to bring them to life, in as honest as a way as you can. I am not Black, nor do I identify as a woman, but I've always been compelled to write about and include strong women and characters of color in my short stories and films. It's the least I could do to increase inclusion and representation. And if I don't know something I do the research and/or find women and people of color to collaborate with. Anyway, it's great to see such thoughtful content on KZfaq. Subscribed!

While I get where you guys are coming from, I feel like this is sort of a "Taylor Swift only writes songs about her exes" situation. Sofia Coppola grew up privileged and isolated, so she produces art that reflects her experiences. People don't always create art to make societal comments or explain extremely important ideologies that are present in society. There is no guideline for art and if Coppola wants to direct/write films that tell her own story, she can. I think the fact that there's a female director that is extremely successful in telling her own, very feminine, story is admirable. She's not here to make societal/political comments, she's just making art.

On one hand, yeah there should've been a black character. But I would rather a privileged person who KNOWS they can't tell a proper story about a black character quit than try and fail and bolster stereotypes or racism in the process. I would've told her to consult the few primary or secondary sources we have of black women during the time.

there's room for all the 2 dimensional usually white macho man and adolescent boy story lines and ppl get their knickers in a twist over rare and popular young women's story lines calling them vapid because they're what, misogynists

I love how video essays have become so popular! This is such an interesting topic!!!

I'm a minute into your video and I'm obsessed with your voices and the way you both talk. It's so gentle!!

Marie Antoinette is genuinely the most beautiful movie I've ever seen. The shots, costumes, music, lighting, everything is utter perfection. I wished she did more with the "gilded cage" commentary and her relationship with her husband but I can't fault her for anything else. Its just too beautiful and thoughtful to be degraded. Frankly though, I really didn't like her stylistic and narrative choices in Virgin Suicides, but it is probably just personal taste as opposed to lack of skill

I really appreciate the aesthetic of the shots of you, the narrators, feels like it really fits the topic at hand, and for some reason the choice framing and distance from the camera feels kind of fresh and unusual, har to put into words why though. I guess and hope it was intentional and inspired by Coppola? :) Anyway, insightful as always, thank you for all the hard work on this!

Thank you for your channel 💕 I’ve been waiting so long to find a film analysis channel made by women. Keep up the great work!

WOC here and I love Sofia's work. She's writing the world she knows, that's what artists do. The solution to increasing diversity in film is to champion and support diverse storytellers. Change the industry, not the art.

I wonder what it is about Kirsten Dunst particularly that intrigues Coppola

20/10 lana impersonation off the bat. Let's talk about white fragility

Thank you. It's so refreshing to see such a thoughtful and well put together video on an important topic like this one. I truly appreciate the effort and time that went into this, and I'm so happy to see that it has spurred so much intellectual and philosophical thoughts from the people in the comments. Seriously, thank you for sharing your voices, and giving us a space to discuss topics like this.

Guys pls tell me where to find more of these. Daaaamn. This content is the best of video essays ive ever seen.

Amazing video and analysis, you make me want to watch every movie that apears In the video, even after showing many negative critiques, you manage to convince me to dedicate my time to her works.

This was SO well made. There should be a pastel council where we all kindly talk about these things and move forward with history. Beautiful work, I'm a fan now!

Thank you thank you thank you for an amazing video! First time watching.

If Sofia had written a Black character, she would've been criticized for that too. Can't win.

In my opinion The Beguiled doesn't have to be an all embracing dissertation on the social and political situation of the South, but just a story about this very specific group of girls. Even if a black character surely would have been interesting, I find Coppola's argument valid. The Beguiled is not a film about the tragedy of slavery and I would have probably found it quite offensive if the problem wasn't addressed properly, so probably Coppola chose the wisest course.

This was a brilliant visual essay, thank you, ladies. I think Coppola's film definitely has a distinct quality that absolutely does have a place in the analysis of woman/girlhood and is existence in the world. That being said I don't purposefully seek out or enjoy Coppola's work. As a black woman, I have lived a lifetime of having images of beautiful and tragic privileged white women rammed down my throat presenting considerations that I've never had acknowledged and elements of wispy romanticism that I will never achieve. In fact, your analysis from 10:23 - 10:33 nailed it perfectly! Where are the romantic depictions of black woman/girlhood that don't also involve some deeply tragic racial and or sexual violence?! The criticism of Coppola by male critics is fascinating; she's allowed to be the only woman in the room because of her background and privilege but the other male occupants of the room will forever remind her that she's only a woman and therefore should know her place. There would be a vacuum for this type of work if it didn't exist because it actually provides a counterfoil to the harsh patriarchal imagery we've had to endure as meaningful and righteous for so long!

I absolutely loved this essay, so well constructed, really good points that actually have never crossed my mind... i just wanted to leave a comment appreciating the work that went into this.

Great video! I would have loved some commentary on 'Lost in Translation' as well; I love a lot of her movies but as a Japanese woman I found this film kind of painful and cringey at times and definitely enjoyed it the least of those I've watched. It weirds me out how many people love it and consider it her best movie - whilst I can see how Western audiences would be taken in by the soundtrack (which I do love!) and gorgeous visuals, my impression of the film kind of tied in to your comments here on 'The Beguiled'. Although she doesn't erase Japanese people from the story visually (which I kinda assume is due to colourism on her part, similar to Tim Burton) I noticed whilst watching how uncomfortable certain aspects of the film made me, with Asian characters feeling like they lacked any real personality, more just reduced to comedy props (mostly relying on very basic and unoriginal stereotypes, like being shorter or mispronouncing words). I do think it's possible to make this type of movie with themes of alienation in an unfamiliar culture and it be good, but I didn't feel she succeeded in that personally - it looks great, but I found myself wondering why she even bothered to set the film in Japan without bothering to give any Japanese characters depth, personality, or even more than 10-20 lines of dialogue. It ended up feeling more like white voyeurism and othering of a culture that means a lot to me, and I was really disappointed because the film is so hyped up that I didn't expect it to be so shallow :/ just another example of her inability to write characters who aren't white.

I feel she is strongly critiqued for a very narrow minded perspective of what the female experienced truly is in its entirety, but as other directors (mostly men) go overlooked for having that same tunnel vision of ways to tell a story, even praised for it. Truly, she is to be criticized for many reasons, her movies aren't for everyone and it's hard to relate at first glance what the deeper meaning is, the same movies are easy to never watch again or finish. But understanding a different perspective of life, especially if you are of a different gender, culture, race, sexuality, etc. can be to some impossible, but for those who have the patience and sensibility, often can. I think she does have this capacity, to understand the complexity of the female experience or a different race, but she chooses not to and that's okay.

As an early 30s, mostly male presenting, person of color I am not at all what would be considered Coppola's "demographic", whatever that means these days, but I'll chime in. She's a favorite of mine. Bar none. What people deem superficial & vacuous about her films is precisely the point. I've shown "Bling Ring" to several friends because I find the handling of celebrity, the public's gaze to that celebrity & the need to be famous for fame's sake-by any means necessary-both intoxicating & revolting in equal measure. Think Lindsay Lohan walking to court in slow motion wearing all white as camera bulbs flash all around her. She's telling us that what we revere & then devalue-through a usually male gaze-is precisely what has us fucked up; that we can-& usually do-take these acts of scopophilia into places that are destructive of ourselves & each other. This is where she implicates us all. This is Coppola at her most universal. Her inability to see beyond her white, cis-gendered, heteronormative & outrageously privileged upbringing is also part of her art. The fact that she can't see beyond her privilege to treat anyone else not in her immediate circle, if she treats them at all, as anything other than a prop is telling us volumes about privilege itself: that it is not as grand & empowering as we think it is but actually incredibly myopic. She treats many of her other films & their subjects in much the same way. She appears to say that what shimmers might not be gold but might actually even be shit. Think about a drunken Stephen Dorff getting a blow job right before falling asleep mid-way at the Chateau Marmont. I started this review with her more recent films but this also goes for The Virgin Suicides. An absolute favorite since the moment I saw it. I knew Coppola was onto something upon first viewing. Ever wonder why the visuals are so lush yet the story so dark? Why the Lisbon girls' story is told by boys in retrospect? Why the Lisbon sisters' narrative is over before it even began? Coppola has both the ability to call upon her toxic upbringing & denounce it while also giving us glimpses into how this toxicity affects people outside her immediate circle by proxy (Think Scarlett Johansson ordering at a Japanese restaurant & how she treats the Japanese culture in 'Lost In Translation'). She started with a seed of these themes in her early oeuvre but then expanded upon them. To take your privilege & denounce it-instead of merely leaning into it-takes serious cojones.

I don't know about Capolla but what I know is that "the virgin suicides" is a book where the girls are all blondes. The other movies are period movies, so it makes sense rich people back then were majority white. 😊

What a brilliantly balanced commentary, girls! I hope Sofia herself sees this :)

If she'd featured a Black female slave in The Beguiled (making that her first time featuring a Black woman in one of her films, I believe) I would have SCREAMED. I get your point but please don't argue that this would've been an empowering move! It would have been sooo tasteless. Otherwise, I love your analysis of how her upbringing affected her films' aesthetics and narratives!!

Just throwing the words "great" "interesting" "good points were made" into the algorithm. And "tik tok".

Saying that lost in translation or the virgin suicides have a lack of substance is such a huge misunderstanding of the piece of work… they r all a flood of feelings coming off the screen, so delicate yet there’s so much sorrow, not even close of only a mise en scène…

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I'm sorry to sound this dissonant note of criticism against an otherwise perfect analysis of Coppola's work but...I didn't need to see black slaves in The Beguiled. Seen enough of it, no thank you, no more. I didn't even know there was a black slave character originally in the book but if she's not in it here? I'm good. I'm not missing out on anything I can't find anywhere else. For all this talk of wanting to see historically accurate representation on screen, little mind is ever paid to how it actually _feels_ for someone who looks like the person on screen to be perpetually depicted in chains or without free will. For just a moment imagine what that must be like. Spoiler alert: you can never enjoy period drama ever again because you don't _want_ to picture yourself there. If Coppola decided to colour the story Antoinette with a brush of the personal experience and focus in, as you say, on the queen as a person, why not grant her other films this same olive branch? Her artistic vision is allowed ooooonly when there's characters that aren't white and ideally, darker skin, so as to preemptively please and represent everyone. Is that the fate of cinema and art to come? So often I've seen comments acquiesce, 'Well if the artist doesn't know how to do proper representation and can't speak on such complex experiences, if she just wants to tell her story through a character, she should just stay in her lane!' I ask - is this not exactly that? Coppola is using what she knows, what she's experienced, in her life and her career, and widening that lens to talk about the larger issue of female suppression experienced by all women, of all walks of life. If she makes good and true art, it will speak to me. I can picture myself as Antoinette. I can imagine what it must be like to be so suffocated and lacking agency during the Civil War. Coppola will have done her job. I do not expect and I cannot stand when poc characters are onscreen with shallow backstories and have to only say a maximum of two human lines before some mention of their oppression is shoved in. It's old! We get it! The fates of these poc are locked into place and they're always either freed, about to be freed, or forever oppressed. Let poc directors and writers tell their stories, watch their movies, invest in their creations. White people would much prefer to watch a known white creator twist and rework their art to include the non-white experience, instead of actually go out of their way to listen to black people who are actually telling their stories. I'm tired of the virtue signalling and I'm tired of what it's doing to art. Sorry this turned into a rant but I've seen so much of this recently I had to say it at some point, unpopular though it maybe be.

I was obsessed with The Virgin Suicides as a teenager/young adult. It was easy to relate to the characters, not because I lived in parents such as theirs, but because of this feeling of what was understood but unspoken in ourselves. Loved the book too!

This video gives me chills every time and so many friends loved it too! great job!

Thank you for your work and for creating this space for discussion 💖🦋

i remember watching the virgin suicides for the first time age 16 and being taken a back bc it was the first time i related to a female characters because they truly acted the way that i did and the way that women in my life acted- i get the same feelings from ladybird, little women, daisies, mustang and lost in translation. these films aren’t made or about men or there ideas of what men think women should be and so they become disliked by male critics. this was the first time i’d seen a female lead outside of a romantic, happy ending love story context which is generally the only place women are represented as love interests or as leads in rom coms. it was refreshing to see young women portrayed with more purpose than to find love. for me i love her films because they represent real complex women that often don’t subscribe to any traditionally male qualities which shows that you can be a strong woman without being masculine (of course you can be a strong woman and masculine too bc all expressions of femininity are valid and beautiful)