Solar Inverter Installation UK - Do you Need a Generation Meter?

Рет қаралды 10,322

Күн бұрын

Most solar panel installations in the UK have an export or generation meter fitted alongside the solar inverter. This requirement was mandatory when most PV installations were governed by the FIT or Feed-in Tariff. However, since the FIT tariff is no longer applicable, a question arises whether an export meter is still necessary or not?
This video will discuss the metering requirements outlined in the latest IET Code of Practice for Solar Photovoltaic Installations and the MCS Solar guide.
Opening image courtesy of @NorfolkRenewables
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IET Code of Practice for Solar Photovoltaic Installations - 2nd Edition
hub.efixx.co.uk/IET-COP_PV
MCS Solar installation Standard V5.0
hub.efixx.co.uk/MCS-Solar-V5
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00:00 Do you need an export or generation meter?
00:29 Feed-in tariff solar installations with MID meter
01:20 Smart meters
01:58 IET Code of Practice - Guidance
03:12 Alternative using to using a meter
03:55 MID meter with communication
04:20 Existing solar installation with FIT meter
04:56 What do the MCS standards require?
06:32 Or otherwise?
07:01 What we think.
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#solarpanelinstallation #metering #electricalinstallation

Пікірлер: 59

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Next Question - Do you need to fit a DC Isolator? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aKhydsadr9uxZH0.html

@keswickcowboy 5 ай бұрын

Absolutely bang on with your GM advice, as confirmed by the MCS techical guru last year 👏. Yes, there are variables but take the EM115 din rain meter as one example, it's MID so if you have the App then your system is compliant. Plus, I have also found that inverters with built in generation figures are generally in the right ballpark when compared to the Emlite GM's. Keep up the great work Gents 👍

@JasGawera 5 ай бұрын

Glad you showed the loft, that's where mine was fitted last year. (next to inverter and batteries) Never looked at it.

@ecoterrorist1402 5 ай бұрын

It would be the first question I would ask if there were issues with the solar or battery, just easier to ask the customer about the MID meter,

@dbat3291 5 ай бұрын

Was that a photo of Gary accessing the SunSynk app at the end on both phone and laptop? So that must be 2x10 making it 20 times a day lol. Being just as sad I even graph my data 😵‍💫. Having the Sunsynk app, a smart meter and a generation meter it's headbanging that you can't match the figures up. I was told the gen meter tells me (a) Import = what the PV puts in the battery, (b) export = the remainder generated by the PV and (c) Net = simply the difference between the two. But if I add (a) + (b) it is a fair bit lower than the app tells me! As a customer the smart meter tends to give me the most favourable readings. Again I guess the more things there are, the more problems can arise.

@NorfolkRenewables 5 ай бұрын

Great video! Thanks for the Tag!

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

No problem

@johnkeepin7527 Ай бұрын

Many of the older FiT ones (like mine) do not have export meters, only an authorised generation one belonging to the house owner, and on a 50% deemed export contract with Ofcom (linked to RPI inflation) via one of the suppliers that manages it. At least, that is true in the absence of a “Smart” meter owned by the utility firm, which is the case at present at my place. It all depends on your usage, as to whether measure export would be better than 50% generation as deemed export. I’m just about half way through a 20 year FiT, so I guess it’s possible that a smart meter on the utility side might take over sometime, or if one of the other units fails part way through.

@HelenHelen-ue5vl 2 ай бұрын

Hi great video. Thanks we have always used the inverter second screen we have downstairs to give readings. They now say only readings from solar pv meter accepted and that Is less than the inverter. Why would that be ? Thanks

@VinoVeritas_ 5 ай бұрын

You keep making the mistake of assuming solar PV installers read anything published by the IET, MCS or Ofgem.

@tomcardale5596 5 ай бұрын

We have to have generation meters for billing purposes, and this has shown up some weird failure modes of inverters. The main one being the inverter says it's producing, say, 3kW but the generation meter shows it's only outputting 2kW. So far the only inverters we've had do that are old ABB ones but that's not to say it can't happen to others. You do also pick it up because the system performs badly, but if you were only going by the numbers on the inverter you wouldn't even notice that. We've relatively recently moved to using Rayleigh meters which have a lot of positives but one massive negative when we do meter swaps on old FiT registered systems is that the serial number is only written on the back. If you forget to print out a label before you install it, you have to rummage around taking the whole metering panel apart to remove it from the DIN rail. I've no idea why they can't just do what everyone else does and write it on the front.

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Great info - thanks Tom!

@electrician247 5 ай бұрын

With smart metering for import/export it doesnt feel like its really needed anymore. Im happy to rely on the mid meters such as the din rail ones on the GivEnergy AIO/Gateway in place of a physical meter of its own right. Less happy to rely on the inverters themselves to give accurate generation data so with a base level solax system as an example we would still fit an external meter. Its a good way to check what the inverter is saying its doing vs whats actually outputting into the wider system. Quick and simple way to check over time what you actually produced. Because we all know when an app loses support or some firmware is updated that data is likely gone to the cloud forever with it lol. Good walk through again Gordon. Didnt know Gary has solar he has never mentioned it.....

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Problem is the dumb meters don’t give you any time reference so you can’t really gauge performance overtime. Unless you take a manual reading week / day

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Rumour has it Gary has another battery 🔋…. Beware

@electrician247 5 ай бұрын

@@efixx absolutely agree. More to see very quickly since I put my system in its pumped out however many units. Day to day I use the GivEnergy portal which can show me generation output, temperatures of all the equipment, power factor, voltage and what I had for dinner lol. That level of data is insane. The worry is much like when Anderson got into trouble in the EV world is that reliable long term, will it always have support for say a 15 year lifespan. I quite like having the little meter to check now and then. Was very interesting to visit an older system last week that has one for the FIT and that has measured generation since 2010.

@electrician247 5 ай бұрын

@@efixx Gary should really start talking about his solar. It’s like a hidden secret, maybe he should get an air fryer…

@jasonwatson9011 5 ай бұрын

I've been avoiding smart meters for years due to issues on site. However if I want to carry on with E7 I have to get a smart meter my March/April next year due to the BBC ending LW transmission making out Telemeter obsolete.

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Good luck 🤞- I’m still battling 3 years later!

@m1cxf 5 ай бұрын

Me too. Government guidance clearly says "ideally a smart meter" which according to the energy suppliers means MUST BE A SMART METER. Ofcon told me that a "dumb" meter is perfectly acceptable.!!! I cannot have a so called smart meter at this property and at this time I am dumping my surplus in to a water tank. We have a ten panel system and are low energy users so quite a lot is being wasted which is almost as criminal as the profits made by energy companies during the recent crisis.@@efixx

@johnkeepin7527 Ай бұрын

A few years ago I had to have an old radio teleswitch controlled meter replaced, which was done with a modern one with it’s own built in clock, and a standby battery. Used for E7, permanently on night rate between about 23:36 - 06:36 GMT. It is not a “smart” one. Normally read it myself and plonk the numbers in to my account with the utility firm.

@ladams5356 5 ай бұрын

Agree not required where a energy providers meter captures export too

@jennifermedia6288 24 күн бұрын

How to find the export meter reading ?

@gino2465 5 ай бұрын

MC's are losing members since octopus energy made their announcement with regards taking on none MCs systems. As far as metering for the sack of £30 I still fit them.

@user-mq4nr3yv2r 5 ай бұрын

when submitting MCS certificate application you are asked for the serial number and model of the meter, what information should we provide? the inverter details?

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Yes or just put zeros in the form

@MorzakEV 3 ай бұрын

@@efixxI was about to ask that question. I’ve submitted the din rail meter serials for the govenergy em115’s before, but I never thought of just putting zeros! 😅

@northeastcorals 5 ай бұрын

I have recently hat 2 of these meters fitted for on 2 inverters & I'm confused: 1st meter shows NET 48kW (IMP 0.4kW & EXP 48.8kW) 2nd meter shows NET -73kW yes minus! (EXP 10.1kW & IMP 83.2 kW). Any ideas whats going on???🤔

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Do you have batteries?

@northeastcorals 5 ай бұрын

@@efixx Yes I do (sorry I should have said). I should also mention there are ZERO cables/loads connected to the CU yet as the house is undergoing major renovations so no electrics are being used from the CU. The only things connected to the main CU presently is the solar gear (two inverters & one 1 5.8kwh battery) :)

@Mark-xr4zt 5 ай бұрын

Out of interest if a meter is fitted and FIT payments are being received, who owns the meter? And if there is a problem with it who is responsible for repair/ replacement? If it is the consumer would they need to use an MCS installer to carry out any work associated with the meter to maintain their FIT payments?

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Customer owns the meter - good question who would replace it. Perhaps a call to OFGEM is needed

@coxyjmz 4 ай бұрын

That wiring diagram for pv to mains is actually not correct if it’s a bi directional meter, which most are now.

@ecoterrorist1402 5 ай бұрын

In the grand scheme of things 30 quid for a meter is a no-brainer, install one every time.

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Waste of materials no one ever looks at them. Found one hidden in a cupboard in one house.

@jamesborthwick1631 3 ай бұрын

still waiting for my export mpan number form sp networks G98 from last year, so giving them free electricity from my solar panels

@sergiofernandez3725 5 ай бұрын

Why did Gaz put a meter in his plant room?

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

He like the industrial 🏭 look! - you should see his bedroom 🫣

@sergiofernandez3725 5 ай бұрын

@@efixx Has Gaz got a smoke and heat alarm in his plant room?

@MartinE63 5 ай бұрын

‘Without the use of. Tool, ladder or torch’ So no fitting in a meter cupboard then…unless the door is missing.

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Up sell opportunity - 💡

@davidvincent5244 5 ай бұрын

Let's make this simple as it seems you are missing the point. The meter is to record the kW generated by the connect system at the site. Which, is also accepted by the energy co's as it has a known level of accuracy. The inverter does not providing the same level of accuracy. Also, what happens when the inverter is replaced? Or when the inverter manufacturer go bankrupt? All data is lost as it is likely that the inverter model/manufacturer is changed. The placement of the meter shouldn't be in the Roof. It's supposed to be where day light is available. If the installer has placed it wrongly. Then it should fail the MCS cert. A SMART meter may be available however it's not guaranteed. Even now. Your one doesn't work! They also can't tell if you have created the kW via Gen or PV. Hence, the physical meter should be fitted.

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Unless it's a old feed in tariff agreement - the meter isn't used by the energy company for payment. Without a smart meter you can't get an export MPAN so are frozen out of the smart tariff. If the inverter fails, then the data will still be available in the app. The "dumb" generation meters, only record an total generation, no data with regards to time or track of performance, so really a useless number. Would be a different case if installers fitted a version with communications.. but most fit the £30 version.

@branbroken 5 ай бұрын

Even with "dumb" meters it really depends on the meter model used, there are many that have capability for adding communications but can be used without that have granular data at configurable intervals similar to what smart meters provide. Your not restricted to only having totals, though your right many domestic pv installers go for the cheapest option and unfortunately you get what you pay for. It is really up to the customer to understand what their requirements are and ensure things are installed, would be nice to see more companies selling and installing these systems ensuring the customers understand what they are and are not getting and providing proper advice.

@craigbrooker41 5 ай бұрын

You need the meter serial number to register the MCS Certificate unfortunately. Otherwise its completely useless generally😅

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Try just putting zeros in the form 😉

@TheAviation101 5 ай бұрын

Or put the inverter’s serial number

@rhysj25 5 ай бұрын

Just put your smart electricity meter serial no. In

@TheAviation101 5 ай бұрын

@@rhysj25 but that doesn’t measure generation. If I have a 16A inverter and 16A load, the smart meter will record 0A export. Wouldn’t it make more sense to record the inverter’s serial?

@rhysj25 5 ай бұрын

MCS is just a certificate, your SEG supplier will take readings directly from your export register in your smart meter they are not paying you for electricity you self consume like under the old FIT scheme

@GSHElectrical 6 ай бұрын

Only 10 times 😂😂😂

@ladams5356 5 ай бұрын

😂

@patricklyons7683 5 ай бұрын

There is a need for window cleaners to expand their business to cherry-pickers for cleaning Photovoltaic systems.

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

Great idea - we’ll dig out our shammy

@andyhodchild8 5 ай бұрын

Can't wait to here all about 'smart' meters! I have quite a few customers with so called smart meters not working and for a year or more. They even changed supplier in the hope of getting it to work but no joy. Yet another half baked Britain triumph.....

@efixx 5 ай бұрын

3 years, ombudsman and a court claim win… still - it’s an epic and still not sorted

@m1cxf 5 ай бұрын

Pleased to see that I am not alone in referring to them as "so called smart meters". I have a long list of other names for them, publishing it on here would get me banned from youtube.

@rhysj25 5 ай бұрын

@@efixxWow same problem here, mine has no signal but no one will even acknowledge I have one let alone fix it