Great video! You accidentally referred to the modern universe as Earth-2, and mania as Earth-1, in the beginning of your Forces timeline explanation at the end. Anyway, so much work probably went into this, I can't believe that this channel isn't bigger!

“Big is assassinated” Gold

R.I.P 1998 to 2017 He died looking for his Pollywoog Pal

I still like to think that Classic Sonic is still the same one from Generations. The ending of Gens had Classic Sonic and Classic Tails go back to their time from a portal, most likely causing a timeline split. So now there's a split taken place after Classic's perspective in Generations and includes Mania and his perspective in Forces. He was taken to his original time in Forces and was obviously sent back at the end.

"Since Tails is icapable of fighting, I'll place it after Forces." I'm dead.

When you realize that the sonic cannon is more convoluted than kingdom hearts.

I think that in Generations created another timeline/dimension that lead into Mania. TL 1: Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3&K etc. Until Generations. After Generations Eggman found the Phantom Ruby and Forces happened TL 2: Sonic 1, CD, 2, Generations. After Generations, when Classic Sonic went back to his own time, he went through the events of 3&K and Mania. After Mania, the Phantom Ruby got transported to TL 1 and a few months before Forces. Classic Sonic also got transported to TL 1 but arrived when Tails got attacked by Chaos. -That could explain the 'other' dimension part I guess-

What happened to Shade? Simple, Eggman had another enforcer, his name was Ken.

brilliant. rip big

I didn't think any video game timeline could possibly be more complicated than the Zelda timeline. I was wrong.

I'm pretty sure Mania Sonic and Gens classic sonic are the same. Even the Japanese website confirms this. Sonic uses the same time travel logic as dragon ball. Changing a bit of any timeline will make that timeline it's own completely separate timeline. Since Time eater messed up Time, everything that happens from S&K3 forward won't happen to Gens classic sonic(his timeline had split and basically become it's own timeline. Gens classic/Mania Sonic will have way different events e.g Hard Boiled Heavies saga which didn't happen with Modern Sonic in the Classic era) Also, Chronicles is non canon. The game wasn't even made by Sonic Team and not even single of Sonic team's members were watching what they were doing. Also, Ken Penders was involved in this game's development, wanting to add his own elements from in the games. If so, I hardly doubt Sonic Team will even approve his ideas as canon.

The real question is...WHY IS THERE NO HUMANS IN SONIC FORCES ( not counting Eggman )

The Phantom Ruby being a world-hopping artifact kind of reminds me of the Dark Spark from Transformers. EDIT: Right after I typed that he said the Phantom Ruby "pulls a Dark Spark" XD

If I had to guess, Mania takes place after Generations in a timeline split.

I would just like to point out that humans have always been part of Sonic's world since the Classics, on a planet similar to our own but obviously very different. And just because we can't see humans in the stages doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because we don't see humans EVERYWHERE in MegaMan, Shantae, Pokémon, or Zelda doesn't mean they don't exist. Does not seeing any Toads within the levels of Mario games mean those take place on a different world that's not primarily inhabited by Toads? No. That different worlds shtick is pretty dumb. Humans have actually been the predominant species like the real world because Forces is the first game to reveal a mass-load of anthro-animals as almost all of the anthros introduced prior have been playable characters at least once (usually their first appearance). The original Sonic game had a feel like a 1980s movie, western and/or animé, which takes place on a world like our own but with a particular woodland critter running around being special and more notably different than the other normal animals, and that particulary special animal is trying to save his woodland friends and even the whole world from a kooky scientist who resembles an egg too much for his own good and sanity.

2 things: 1: "Oh, you're *that* Sonic from another dimension!" I.E. Tails knows this Sonic, even if indirectly. Only time we've gotten any indication that Tails knows of any other Sonics is the time he met with Classic Sonic in Generations, and it was just that one Sonic. Apart from that, it HAS been confirmed that Mania Sonic, Forces Classic Sonic, and Generations Classic Sonic are all one and the same. 2: "Long time no see!" You would not believe how many times people say that to each other, but it indicates that outside of the games Sonic and co. don't meet up with each other that often, and indeed from Adventure all the way to Unleashed (and implicitly Forces too) Sonic never starts his adventure with Tails, and always meets up with him at some point during it. Plane crash, breaking Sonic out of jail, actively tracking Sonic down as he runs at super speed, just coincidentally being in Soleanna at the same time, just coincidentally being in Apotos at the same time, radioing Sonic to get rescued, etc. etc.

I'm just gonna pretend like Classic Sonic in Forces is a different Classic Sonic

14:50 Lol, now we just need to see their hands. Especially knuckles’s

I think the answer IS alternate timelines, and the reason the Sonic 06 reset specifically changed the timeline is because at the end, Sonic and Elise put Solaris out, they pretty much kill the time god. That's gotta have some impact on their timeline.

There’s one Sonic game you forgot in the main sonic timeline and it’s not dr Robotink’s mean bean machine, it’s Sonic Waku Waku Patrol Car

marvellous job with all the sonic timeline related videos they make a ton of sense now

Didn't know about that Bean lore. Nice, learned something.

I am SO, SORRY for delaying this video.

Colors DS Is Canon Due To The Burst Wisp Was In Forces

I think the main difference between regular time travel and what happened in Generations is the Time Eater. He DESTROYED time, so badly that SONIC 06, WHICH NEVER HAPPENED, came BACK. If it's that powerful, then why couldn't the Time Eater's shenanigans also cause the timeline to split since Past Eggman now knows what his future self will do and can decide to do something different post-classic era? This means he goes after the Phantom Ruby instead of continuing with whatever he planned on doing next, kicking Mania, Forces, Mania Plus's Encore Mode, and Mania Adventures into gear.

That bit about sharing with your enemies got me to subscribe

10:01 I like to headcanon that after the whole deal with the Twilight Cage and Nocturnus Clan, Shade decided to travel the world to fully experience it.

14:53 Gotta love the example you showed.

Wasn't expecting a Dark Spark reference in there but that indeed was where my head went as well when you started explaining the Phantom Ruby.

You know, sonic and elise at the end of '06 didn't time traveled themselfs, they just apeared in the past after solarises defeat. It's possible that chaos emerald timetravel works by "been here all along" rules and solaris timetravel works by "replacing" rules.

I think that Sonic Mania takes place between Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Adventure in Earth 1. In Sonic Mania, the heavy magician can turn into 1 of 3 characters. These charcters are Bean the Dynamite, Bark the Polar Bear, and Fang The Weasel. It is possible that the phantom ruby in Sonic Mania is a prototype. It is also possible that the phantom ruby prototype from Sonic Mania was destroyed why Sonic was in the portal. The reason the phantom ruby sent Sonic to the future is because it sensed the other prototypes, maybe?... I mean the phantom ruby can do a lot of things so this is probably one of the things it can do? The phantom ruby was found on angel island was probably because Modern Eggman didn't want it anymore and somehow got it on angel island.

7:30 "Alternate Timelines = Alternate Universes" Ah! I made a whole video 'bout that back in the day!

I just watched both videos back-to-back, and I'm impressed at how much work that must've taken. But when you consider how the developers come up with half-assed explanations like, "Everyone had, like, amnesia", or, "The canon is in constant flux", it's clear they don't have continuity in mind when developing games. Recently I've come to think that the games are really self-contained stories unless evidence states otherwise. Like, I can see the Mega Drive/Genesis trilogy--plus & Knuckles and CD--as one canon, with most of the Game Gear/Master System titles as another. Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 start a new canon, including Heroes, Shadow, the Advance trilogy and Battle. Sonic 4, Rush, Rivals, Riders and Storybook series are each their own thing. Sonic Colours starts yet another canon, leading into Generations. And the last set of games to share a connection are Mania and Forces. That leaves the rest as standalone titles. It's not important which game a character is introduced in, or what specific history they have in each. We don't need a reestablished past to know who these characters are. And just making a reference to a previous game doesn't put them in the same universe either, but may rather be a "what if" branch-off. I know this is a bizarre explanation, but is it really any worse than a single, convoluted and oft contradicting timeline?

Holy crap, man. There we go. This is THE Sonic Timeline. However, there are a few nitpicks with this and also some things I want to talk about. I do agree with the possible placement of Sonic Chronicles being placed before Unleashed. I think it just makes a lot how sense. However, Unleashed's intro is the only thing that hints at Eggman's takeover. The rest of the game shows everyone semi peaceful -besides the whole planet being shattered into 7 pieces- and even the residents of Mazuri make an utter joke out of Eggman. Maybe Unleashed is set very far from Chronicles and Eggman is about to make a full onslaught from space for one last attempt to retake the world. But there's one thing I want to talk about. Classic Sonic and the Phantom Ruby. I 100% agree about how Generations creates a timeline split causing Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic to have separate dimensions. There is actually somethings that help prove this IN Generations itself before Mania and Forces are ever included. -Classic Robotnik officially changes his name to Eggman right before the final boss of Generations once Classic Sonic and Classic Tails see him co-piloting the Time Eater. However, Robotnik never changes his name to Eggman until around Sonic Adventure 2, which is set years later. Modern Sonic and Modern Tails don't recall ever going to White Space and teaming up with their older selves when they were kids so either the events made them lose their memories or the events of Generations caused another timeline from it. Another thing to go with this is how Eggman finds the Time Eater in space immediately after Colors yet he doesn't recognize it as a beast that his future self used with his help. A final factor to take into account is that at the end of Generations, both Eggmans get into a giant debate and start arguing with each other. It's most likely that Modern Eggman explained his previous failures starting from Sonic 4 all the way to Sonic Colors in hopes that even an alternate version of himself could finally defeat Sonic once and for all. This leads to Classic Eggman avoiding the likes of Chaos, Shadow, Dark Gaia, and the Wisps and focusing on something entirely new; The Phantom Ruby. Now here's the one thing I have against this video. There are actually TWO Phantom Rubies. Yes. TWO. Why is that? Well. Let's think about this. In Sonic Forces, Classic Sonic appears from a strange distorted portal out of nowhere. I immediately assumed this to be the portal from Sonic Mania which makes sense. However, in the Sonic prequel comics, Eggman finds the Phantom Ruby rights before the Jackal Squad arrive and become his private mercenaries. The beginning of Sonic Forces ends with a time jump to 6 months later. By then Classic Sonic appears. However, Episode Shadow shows that the Jackal Squad joined Eggman at least 3 months prior to Forces's beginning. Which means that the Phantom Ruby's arrival and Classic Sonic's arrival are 9 months apart. You said that Classic Sonic ended up in Modern Sonic's world for 9 months without a clue of what was going on. However, wouldn't someone have seen a younger version of Sonic going around? Someone would most likely have contacted Sonic or any of his friends to find Classic Sonic and they would have at least 3 months to try to actually help him get back to his home dimension. Yet in Forces, we see Classic Sonic arrive in a strange portal with no conclusion other than "It's the same portal that took him in Sonic Mania." Why else would he appear in a strange portal? It doesn't make any logical sense. Now that that's out of the way, let's address the Phantom Ruby. How would it be possible for the Phantom Ruby to appear in Modern Sonic's world/Earth 1 if its arrival is 9+ months before Classic Sonic's arrival. What? Was Classic Sonic just trapped in limbo for 9 months? Here's my answer; the Phantom Ruby from Forces is Earth 1's Phantom Ruby. Think about it. Earth 2's Phantom Ruby has no explanation as to why it suddenly appeared on Angel Island. Has it been there ever since Sonic the Hedgehog 3? I doubt it. I theorize that if the Phantom Ruby stays dormant for too long without a host (i.e. Infinite or Heavy King), it will teleport in search of a new host. This happened in both Earth 1 and Earth 2 and that is how both Eggmans found the Phantom Rubies. So, then.... That means..... The Phantom Ruby from Earth 2 that brought Classic Sonic to Earth 1.... Is still out there..... In Modern Sonic's world.... I highly doubt Sega will bother bringing that up, tho

My theory is that after generations, Classic Sonic travels to Earth 2 (Mania and Forces) in 12AS, this universe removes Sonic 3 from the timeline and replaces it with Mania. This also removes all future events from the timeline excluding Knuckles Chaotix and The Tails games Classic Sonic travels to Earth 1 in 12AS during Sonic Blast and that timeline continues as normal. (After Forces happens)

Here's the explanation for all of this, The writers from colors to forces (Graff & Pontac) were confirmed to know nothing about Sonic and were conformed to not even bother researching it either. This is why the timeline in the game feels so forced and doesn't make sense in the timeline because they don't put the work to research the timeline. Its nothing to look too deep into because that would mean the back stories of the characters in this game doesn't actually exist. That is why chaos did nothing in the game because they most likely didn't know what to do about nor care about it. And the characters don't act the way they should because they don't acknowledge their back story and character arc. So there, that would mean most of this video was pointless.

BIG THE CAT IS ASSASSINATED BY ONE OF EGGMANS MERCENARIES

14:15 the best part

And then after Sonic Forces, the Sonic Mania Adventures animation series begins after classic sonic travels back

Sonic Chronicles isn't canon, but otherwise this a decent effort in trying to make a timeline for Sonic.

The only reason Crisis City was in Generations because the time eater can take places from time and combine them

Here's what I think: The Classic Sonic in Generations and Mania/Forces are the same Classic Sonic, and the reason Tails says the line implying that Classic is from another dimension is simply a case of bad memory over 6 months and also the line from Silver saying Tails lost it. Mania and Classic's side of Forces takes place in between Sonic R and Sonic Pocket Adventure.

@the4thsnake, as much I agree on your logic on the timeline, it just sucks that Iizuka/Sonic Team insists more and more at panels that a split timeline occurred. And the only way I can see this making sense without contradicting passed instances was to go with another convoluted theory a friend a mine threw out..... that perhaps the Time Eater's powers affects the timeline differently from when other characters use Chaos Control; I.E. Magic based time travel (the Emeralds, Time Stones) makes singular timeline alterations, while cosmic/quantum based time travel (Time Eater) makes parallel worlds tangent off. Ugh, yes it makes things more complicated then needed, but it's the only way I see them having their cake and eating it too.

I can't believe Big is fucking dead.

The only explication there could be about where does Mania take place, is that Generations split the timeline (same concept that Dragon Ball uses when someone goes to the past) so now Classic Sonic from Generations is part of a different timeline after Generations. I think the dimension thing was probably made to not confuse people about the timeline in case there's a Mania sequel and at the same time, it explains why Modern Sonic or Modern Eggman in the Adventure games doesn't have any memories about things like the Egg Dragoon, Shadow or Time Eater. Also, Classic Sonic in Forces is indeed the same from Generations, the Japanese website of Forces state that Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic teamed up before to save their world and now they are teaming up again in Forces. Also, don't know if we can even count Chronicles as canon, being made by Bioware, its full of plotholes, even more than any other Sonic game. For example, It states that Sonic and Shadow teamed up to defeat Eggman in the events of Adventure 2.

But if you count mania adventure, mania adventure's Sonic is Classic Sonic in Sonic Forces, just look at his pose at the end of Forces and start of Mania adventure.

In my own headcanon i just ignore tails saying that classic sonic is from another dimension considering the writers dont know the difference between timetravel and dimension hopping. So in my own version of the timeline i have sonic mania take place after knuckles chaotix and sonic the fighters because of the cameo's of bark, bean and fang in mania. The original metal sonic is also fought in stardust speedway again in sonic mania so it could be implied that metal sonic from sonic 4 ep metal was defeated by sonic somewhere after mania and not cd. Lastly sonic mania has sonic and the others in the classic style so it takes place before sonic 4

your theory generations creating a split timeline for sonic mania make sense I mean if classic sonic was the sonic from generation then that ultimately disconnect the modern sonic games and the classic sonic games

I think the logic with Classic Sonic being from "Another dimension" is that Classic Sonic's timeline diverges after Generations. Because Classic Eggman has _met_ his future self, he decides to do different plans instead of following the same path. So for this version of Classic Sonic, it goes: Classic Era -> Generations -> Mania -> Forces -> Mania Adventures And Mania Plus is in there... somewhere.

What about Sonic 1 for the Game Gear? That version has different zones as well plus different bosses

I never completed generations and assumed that the modern characters thought that classic is from an alternate universe just because classic is small.

I really wish Sega would fix the timeline. Maybe with another generations game that sets a definitive timeline, connecting both modern and classic sonic’s universes. Maybe through the phantom ruby and it’s dimension/time hopping properties. It hurts my brain

Good job placing Mania after 3 and knuckles.

i love the guitar riff

I'd personally shift the character ages up a year or two, it just seems right for some reason

1. im pretty sure the shadow DLC showed that shadow was trapped in infinite's virtual world for 6 months during stage 3 2. you misspoke your earth 1s and 2s when going into the timeline at the start of 13:00 You said Earth-1 instead of Earth-2 for sonic mania (only pointing this out just to avoid more stress) 3. are the sonic IDW comics canon as they not only follow on from forces but also have certain flashbacks to past events to games? i mean it definitely fits more with the games as oppose to the archie comics

I think that when Eggman and Tails call Classic Sonic "from another dimension" is just another instance of lazy writing, and they meant another time period. Modern Sonic's generations pun is too on the nose for the writers to establish that this Sonic isn't from the same dimension. And there are other references to the generations incident. And also, characters talk about Classic Sonic like they knew him before, which they did, further invalidating the idea that the Classic Sonic in Forces is a different one from the one in generations.

I'm gonna leave some of my own thoughts about your timeline here, so you can address them the next time you look at the Sonic timeline: 1. Sonic 4 is non-canonical because it was never finished. I'm sure all of you know, but there was supposed to be an Episode 3, but since that didn't happen, Episode 2 ended on a cliffhanger that never got resolved. 2. Sonic Chronicles is non-canonical due to issues with former-Archie comic writer, Ken Penders. To keep the whole issue under the rug, Sega has declared Chronicals non-canon.

14:15 Celebrate good times c'mon

Just to help you, if sonic boom WAS canon then it would be in a seperate timeline right before or some time after sonic colours. (I think.)

This makes sonic forces story a bit better

Super Mario Bros time-line And Mega Man Time-line

Wouldn't sonic 2 game gear be before sonic labyrinth because he cant do a spindash

I honestly think that Classic Sonic from Generations is the same one from Mania and Forces. The way you explained your first option that you said wasn’t logical actually is possible, but when adding something that you overlooked. The time travel shenanigans from ‘06 were almost entirely caused by Chaos Emerals (Eggman’s machine was powered by an emerald and Mephiles’ ability most likely works the same way), while everything that happened in Generations was the result of the Time Eater. Taking this into account, it’s not too far-fetched to say that unlike the Chaos Emeralds, the Time Eater can actually make alternate timelines. This would make sense when you think about the Modern versions of Sonic and Tails presumably not remembering anything about the Classic perspective of that game. Not to mention that Modern Tails didn’t recognise Green Hill while Classic Tails entered the portal that went to Green Hill at the end of the game. I think that Classic Sonic and Classic Tails went through all the adventures up until Blast and then got pulled into Generations, altering their timeline and sending them into Mania upon their return. This way the ‘06 timelines are still gone while Classic Sonic is better explained.

This is amazing work dude! Bravo! It's making me heavily reconsider my own timeline which was tidy but not so thorough. Maybe I'll do my own video, lol. Great videos, all three of them.

14:13 *We did it bois*

What if all Sega franchises are connected • Jet Set Radio has a playable character that has a sonic skull necklace around his neck • Nights take's place in a different planet ( I think, haven't played nights so...) • Crazy taxi car gets crashed by an asteroid in sonic colors [ Because in the game eggman says that a car with the same license plate as the taxi car in crazy taxi is about to get crushed by an asteroid] Just my theory \_( "_ ) _/ - Edit In sonic adventure theres an advertisment for a hotel with Nights in the name and in sonic adventure 2 Radical Highway I think i've seen a giant Nights statue in the background

Frontiers update?

Great video! I just recently started beating the ones on Steam. My question is, where does Spinball take place in the timeline?

Timeline 1 goes 1, CD, 2, 3, PA, 4, advance and so on

But what about Sonic Pocket Adventure?

Those Sonic and all star racing games isn't in timeline because there are characters from other games?

If i made a timeline liked this then I will include sonic dash with the crossover with angry birds then the Mario and sonic games and include his envovment in Lego dimensions

Can’t wait for Sonic Frontiers to update this

I think sonic Forces takes place in another universe becouse characters act differently from "themselfs" , sonic mania is a sequel to sonic 3K (it is on the main timeline) and green hill zone isn't on south island (or an island to begin with).

Dude, the phantom ruby was with mania sonic and got sucked up with but probably landed elsewhere

bs = before sonic. as= after sonic

Also why are there two 12's 12:52

I think that after Generations, Classic Sonic and Classic Tails going back in their time and that’s splits the time in 2 dimensions and maybe Tails in Forces know this thanks to ‘06

Rip big

So, forces is a sequel to mania, and earth 1 is more complicated than earth 2

Are the comics ever mentioned?

I'm Sorry to shoot down Spinball but in Sonic Spinball in the bonus game you break these capsules with pinball and they release Sonic SATam Freedom Fighters from the capsules, so its non-canon

can we talk about the sanic t-shirts in forces? does that mean the concept of sanic is cannon in the sonicverse?

It’s the same classic sonic it’s just classic sonic and robotnik know they’re future so robotnik/classic egg man changes his actions by finding the phantom ruby creating an alternate timeline starting with mania they call classic sonic sonic from another dimension to simplify he’s from another timeline

14:15 no Big!!!

7:00 Maybe it was just the devs trying to make a joke.

So in Sonic adventure Sonic and Amy were one year apart

If you are confused how crisis city is in generations, it might be the same city not destroyed by 06 ways, but forces ways.

R.I.P big the cat😔

Thank god someone finally got rid of big the cat

I both agree and disagree with you on the Classic Sonic account. I believe the "Generations" game created an alternate time-line for the Classic Sonic to return to. In this new time-line, this Classic Sonic doesn't experience the "Pocket Adventure" nor "Sonic 4" but instead Mania. But I still believe they are the same Classic Sonic. Also in the Sonic Game Universe, Time and Dimension and World are pretty interchangeable.

To answer your question about the time-line effects of Generations-Mania-Forces being different from what happened with 06, let me quote you something from the marvelous time-travel series of Doctor Who: "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to affect, but actually, from a non-linier, non subjective point of view it is more like a big ball of wibbily wobbly timey wimey...stuff"

That sonic tails said it actually from Sonic maina

Me personally rather you want to count the classic Sonic that appears in forces/Mania as the same Sonic that that's in Generations or a different version of him. Either way that version of Sonic should go from Dynamite dux to fighters at bare minimum because Fang, Bean and Bark are in Mania as moves in a boss fight/wanted posters that appear in the zone. Also really hope that you make an update video about this franchise. And one last thing I'm pretty sure the IDW Comics are Canon because they reference the games a lot and out of the various TV shows/comics,etc the IDW Comics seem to be the most faithful for better or for worse.💯😆😅🙂

Sonic mania-sonic forces pre-comics-sonic forces-sonic idw and sonic mania adventures- sonic mania plus

Shade the Echidna and Sonic Chronicles series R.I.P. (sniff)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT BIG!!!! THE CAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5:37(JOJO WIERD TIME STOPING NOISES) DIO: BRING FORTH ZA WARUDO JOTARO: GOOD GRIEF SHUT THE HELL UP DIO: IMPOSSIBLE HOW CAN YOU MOVE IN STOPPED TIME

These series of fucking videos is why we shouldn't bother with Sonic's timeline, since even the developers don't give a crap about it.