Sony FX3 2.0 Update | Why You Shouldn't Use Cine EI

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Sony FX3 2.0 Update | Why You Shouldn't Use Cine EI

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Jonathan Palfrey

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 66

@trogdor 2 жыл бұрын

I actually bought a FX3 as soon as the v2 announcement. Been using Cine EI on the FX6 for over a year and I love having them more similar now.

@m00photo92 2 жыл бұрын

Great info brother, For me I honestly enjoy using it cause I don't have to really worry much about the ISO, I simply attach a variable ND and all is flawless, but then again I love grading my footage so

@MiguelReyes-sx1vs 2 жыл бұрын

Agreed 100% is not for everyone. Me in the other hand, has been the way to shoot for a very long time and I shoot weddings aka Run and Gun Hell lol but I only shoot on both native ISO 800 for outside and 12800 for everything indoors and control my exposure with ND and Aperture no I don’t touch the shutter unless I really have to for specific shots. In my opinion it takes times but once you learn the right way at least for me there’s no going back. Workflow is not an issue since I am a Davinci Resolve junkie lol so I have powergrades for all my Slog situations so it doesn’t slow me down because I make sure I have it right in camera from the beginning.

@situacionando Жыл бұрын

What your shutter in most cases?

@MiguelReyes-sx1vs Жыл бұрын

@@situacionando 180 for the most part 24/50 for 60/125 I barely shoot anything in 120 anymore. The only time I break the rule is to get really good details in slow motion with sparklers, I crank my shutter from 250 to 500 depending how much light I have to compensate.. outside of that I'm always on a 180 rule.

@CanaryFilmPro Жыл бұрын

The answer it's very simple if you are a running gun shooter that then not using cine ei. If you make movies where you can control the lights use cine ei

@christofferren9057 Жыл бұрын

I am curious on how to use catalyst browse to how to adjust ISO to get the right exposure in running gun situations. I do not want to manually change the exposure but instead access the metadata. I’m guessing this is possible. Can you make a video on that. Explaining the workflow? I’m guessing we will see a better picture quality doing it this way instead of using flexible ISO in camera. 🤔

@alekseimutovkin Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video. For me using Cine EI is weird, because I see no point of shooting something and seeing different picture on my lcd screen. I thing S-log and Lumetri Colors in Premiere is a way to go for 99% of jobs.

@jaegermah Жыл бұрын

Great video! Thanks!

@huntergrantzuzana 2 жыл бұрын

Great Video - Quick Question = Have you found cine EI not supporting external recording like Atomos ninja V in 4K ?

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, sorry I don't have a Ninja V so I can't test that however I've heard similar concerns from other people. Cine EI might be pushing the processing power of the FX3 to its limit hence certain other features, such as HDMI output, being reduced.

@Brandon4Weiss 2 жыл бұрын

A video I saw mentioned only 1080p output while recording internally (so you couldn’t record internally and externally at 4K at the same time), but that you could still externally record at 4K without also recording internally. I don’t have any firsthand experience, so YMMV.

@TruthReviews 2 жыл бұрын

Love all your videos. How this channel doesn’t have 100x more subs I do not understand. I have two c70s but am considering selling them and getting an FX6 and FX3 as B Cam because I just can not, at all, rely on the C70s autofocus and for what I do I need autofocus and with event work you can not go back and ask people to redo things. I often go manual but when on gimbal for example you need a decent autofocus. Also that flip out screen on the C70 just makes me feel it’s just a matter of time. I will greatly miss the video quality.

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

An thanks, much appreciated. Yeah I understand your frustrations with the C70. I have to admit I’ve had the same, the FX3 is a much better gimbal camera and just overall feels like a much more solid camera compared to the C70. The C70 does have a nice image however I’m constantly impressed by the Sony image too. I’ve yet to try the FX6, my only concern with it is the lack of stabilisation and the evf connection. We had an FS5 and FS7 and found the EVF port eventually starts to break.

@TruthReviews 2 жыл бұрын

@@JonathanPalfrey I am actually deciding between fs7 mark ii and fx6. The fx6 does not have interlaced so not good for broadcast work if I ever needed it. How is the low light and autofocus on the fs7 for you?

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

@@TruthReviews low light was good but the autofocus was poor. Far worse than the C70. A camera operator I met filming football for TV got a FX6. I asked him about the lack of interlace being an issue but he just uses an external recorder for broadcast work.

@melankolikfilms 2 жыл бұрын

Nice one, Palfers. Good info.

@Clemme 2 жыл бұрын

I own the FX3 and I used to shoot in slog3. `Tbh. I will continue to shoot in slog3. After the update, the slog3 pp does not exist as a standard picture profile. I can bring it back in the settings but for some reason, the slog3 looks a bit sepia-toned. Have you experienced that?

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

There’s probably something you’ve missed in the pp settings when re creating it. My advise would be to use the flexible iso setting that way you still get slog3.cine while still shooting like you’ve always done

@BeloAngelino Жыл бұрын

In Flexible ISO mode, is the native ISO 800 or 640? When I scroll the ISO numbers, the lines begin at 500 and below. Thanks!

@rexplorer.official Жыл бұрын

I don’t see why shooting it along with a7iv is a problem. I shoot on the two base iso on the a7iv most of the time already. This just gives me quick change to the two base on the iso.

@JonathanPalfrey Жыл бұрын

More to keep it simple for communication between two shooters.

@BleuOrbitProductions Жыл бұрын

If you use flexible iso mode, is the native iso still 640 (as it was before the v2 update) or is it now 800 along with the cine EI mode?

@WildTechSurvival Жыл бұрын

Great video thankyou

@TheJ_G 2 жыл бұрын

Perfectly stated. Subscribed.

@willvazquez3218 2 жыл бұрын

You're correct. Cine EI mode is terrible for 98% of people, and it functions differently than the FX6. On the FX6, when you are in CineEI mode, and you adjust gain, it's baked into the footage. There is no need to use a separate software to interpret the metadata. At first I thought it was great because of the LUT function out of HDMI, but then I realized that when you use Zebras, they are applied post LUT. So it's incredibly difficult to set exposure quickly and reliably. The way I used to use the camera in the past, was I would use Gamma Assist for previewing on the camera LCD, and send a log feed out HDMI, where on my monitor I would apply the LUT. Using the Gamma assist function on the camera, the Zebras are true exposure Zebras, they don't change if you use the gamma assist or not. With the new firmware, if you want to use the camera in the old fashion way, you have to turn off LOG, and then change the settings of one of the Picture Profiles to match the old settings of PP8, because they removed PP8. WHY???!!!!!. I think the only reason they implemented the CineEI mode in the FX3 is that they shoehorned it in, in order to get the LUT preview engine on the camera. It's a real Frankenstein set-up. Cheers!

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

I haven’t used a FX6 myself, I’m surprised it bakes it in. On the FS7 it worked the same way it now works on the FX3, although that was even more limiting with 3 fixed white balance options. I do agree it seems a bit shoehorned in. Like with the cine OS on the R5c, Sony and canon seem to be trying to find a quick solution rather than coming up with a proper hybrid OS.

@ItsBerg 2 жыл бұрын

LIES… it doesn’t bake it in. Will spreading Bs again. BS 😎

@willvazquez3218 2 жыл бұрын

@@ItsBerg whatever troll.

@robinprobyn1971 2 жыл бұрын

Fx9 you cant bake in gain , didnt know the fx6 you could , would seem to render the use of Cine EI / MLUTs as useless , the only point of the thing is to uniformly under , or more normally over expose ,to get a better signal to noise ratio.. why would you ever add gain when shooting cine EI , just go up to the High level ISO and use ND

@ItsBerg 2 жыл бұрын

@@robinprobyn1971 exactly.. Will doesn’t know what’s he’s talking about. The normal “custom mode” is the normal photo camera iso mode… THAT is gain on the sensor as you go above base iso. Cine EI is always shooting at the base or 2nd base iso, 800/12800 respectively, and only reallocates dynamic range. THAT.. is it’s key benefit. People are writing shit they don’t know about, for cameras they don’t own. I have the a1, fx3, fx6, and komodo. Cine EI works exactly like Blackmagic, Red & Alexa, hence their dynamic range charts that show what changing the EI does to allocation of DR. Sony added this to fx3 and fx6. Those that don’t get it are spreading nonsense & tripping up others that are trying to learn.

@nyambe Жыл бұрын

Do you still think so?

@artnelsoncreative Жыл бұрын

I have a question about White Balance. Should I leave the camera in auto White Balance when using Cine EI?

@JonathanPalfrey Жыл бұрын

You should always use manual white balance unless you have a very good reason not to. Leaving a camera on auto white balance makes it much harder to colour grade.

@joaquinperalba1624 2 жыл бұрын

I don’t get the the Cine EI … Why I cannot just dial one of the base ISOs and manage from there the exposure and ND in the standard way? I don’t get it …. 😩

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

You can stick to flexible iso for that. as I mentioned cine EI isn’t for everyone. Although it’s great to have it as an option you shouldn’t have to feel like you must use it. Only use it if it helps your own workflow.

@petrub27 Жыл бұрын

cine ei will maintain the samew dynamic range at different exposure indexes, by altering the ratio between shadows and highlights. you can't do that without cine ei. the moment you choose other iso value but the base one, a camera without cine ei will reduce its dynamic range

@JtcFilms 2 жыл бұрын

but you still have to get exposure right in non Cine EI mode too right? aka still requires time in post

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

If you adjust the exposure index in cine EI then that will require an extra step in post where as with normal or flexible ISO if you say dropped your ISO to 400 to get it looking correct in camera then you won’t need to adjust it when editing. You’ll of course always need to make some tweaks and adjustments in post regardless however under or over exposing using cine EI is much more deliberate so will require the editor to know to bring it down or up in post.

@JtcFilms 2 жыл бұрын

@@JonathanPalfrey ahhh I gotcha and yes for sure! good stuff!

@northparkfilms3045 2 жыл бұрын

Ever since the update im having an issue where im filming and the screen glitches and shuts off and then turns itself back on without saving what I filmed. Cant decide if its just me or if other people are having the same issue.

@charlieflitton1843 2 жыл бұрын

I had this same issue, but it turned into a progressive boot loop. Luckily I was able to replace the camera, because Sony's only solution was to ship the camera for repair.

@BarefootMediaTV 2 жыл бұрын

so the image isnt better than if you just shoot at the base ISO in picture profile slog3 mode?

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah this is just a different way of shooting

@woahpaolo 2 жыл бұрын

but now there isn't an SLOG 3 Picture Profile btw! If you want to shoot Slog3, you HAVE to shoot with Cine EI

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

@@woahpaolo no you shoot in flexible iso to have slog3 without cine EI

@woahpaolo 2 жыл бұрын

@@JonathanPalfrey ahhhh I see, I was thinking about when I had Log Shooting set to off PP8 wasnt there. thanks! might try that

@robinprobyn1971 2 жыл бұрын

Whats the big deal with shutter angle , its going to look exactly the same , might impress some newbie director seeing it on the monitor :) otherwise zero effect .variable shutter would be nice though and DCI .. cine camera without DCI is a bit of a contradiction .. FYI changing the EI is not changing the DR, that stays the same , its just shifting your levels above and below grey .. eg EI 400, you lose one stop above but gain one stop below ..

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

It’s more the convenience when switching between frame rates. It’s nice on other cameras to just leave it on 180 degrees all the time. Personally I don’t find it too annoying using shutter speed however shutter angle would be nice and it seems it would be a simple software addition. Funny enough I’m not personally bothered by DCI, everything I shoot ends up on a TV or the internet so UHD is an easier frame size to work with.

@robinprobyn1971 2 жыл бұрын

@@JonathanPalfrey True but if you travel that can be dangerous , eg say shooting 29.97p in a 50Hz country ( almost every other country besides the US) , you don't want 180 degrees ( 1/60th) that will give you flicker , and working out non flicker for slo mo is much quicker in speed . I mean its pretty easy to set 180 degrees in speed setting isnt it .. :) .. but variable shutter is much more needed ,

@vahidamini1863 Жыл бұрын

✌...

@Kuliginvitalik 2 жыл бұрын

Why auto white balance not available in cine ei mode?😡

@JonathanPalfrey 2 жыл бұрын

Cine EI is very much designed for traditional controlled sets so they expect you set everything manually. With the FS7 you were limited to just 3 preset white balances! At least with the FX3 you can set it to what you want.

@steelorse 2 жыл бұрын

it's cinema standard, NO ONE uses auto WB on serious projects, so it's normal that it's not available in such a precise and advanced mode like this. Besides, I absolutely do not recommend using auto WB, it's completely abominable in post-production for colorimetry. In my humble opinion, using auto WB on an FX3 or any serious camera is... I'm going to avoid saying the word 😅

@Kuliginvitalik 2 жыл бұрын

@@steelorse agree with you

@techta1k Жыл бұрын

FX3 has terrible software issues. No sound after 2.0/2.0.1/2.0.2 update on two cameras.

@bananamilk0124 2 жыл бұрын

fx3도 없으면서 왜 보고 있는 걸까... Thank you~!

@petrub27 Жыл бұрын

Your points about post processing are not valid. Loads of editors are using 10-12 nodes to complete the edit, so I am pretty sure correcting the exposure is not an issue, when they select tones and then track those and what not, not to mention vfx, green screens. You have a very simplistic approach shile rhis camera is not necessarily for fast turn around

@JonathanPalfrey Жыл бұрын

As I mentioned those that know why they need to use it will use it. I don’t think any productions which have the budget to do more complex post production would need to watch a KZfaq video to decide between cine EI or not as they would already have an established image processing pipeline in place and most likely using the fx3 as b/c camera for a much larger set up.