Royal Navy: Wait, why are you building stronger ships for South America? British Shipyards: *It's just business.*

Argentina 1910: "Give us your battleships or we'll invade you!" Argentina 1982: "Give us your islands or we'll invade you!"

My grandfather sailed on the Latorre, he was a torpedo expert and he was very proud of being a crew member of Chile's largest and strongest flagship ever. He was always telling stories about his sailing days. He passed at age 87, 25 years ago.

12:00 The Chilean Navy, modeled after the British one, buys British/European ships. The Army, modeled after the Prussian one, buys German tanks. The Air Force, modeled after the US one, buys only American. Ahhh, military procurement in my little country 😂😂

"But the Moreno celebrated its first journey by running over a barge and running aground twice." I laughed way too hard at this. Made me think of a very excited, large dog running things down and tripping over its own feet. xD

When you a not a major power and suddenly build a op BB and the world don't believe the BB is yours XD

This is the very definition of counters and powercreep in videogames.

"List of armed conflicts in South America" "This list is incomplete, *you can help by expanding it*"

Peru: Has the biggest ship in the pacific ocean roaming around wrecking chilean ships Sand bank: Im about to end this man´s whole career

A good friend of mine who is also into history is dating a Chilean woman. I showed him this video and he absolutely loved the line "anything you can do, I can do better", finding it particularly accurate of the Chilean spirit, as well as South American national rivalries in general to the point where he has now adopted it in general conversation.

South America *Pays exorbitant amounts of money for modern dreadnoughts* Crew M U T I N Y T I M E

Welcome to South America. Where the crazy politics are normal.

Vickers salesman: Would Sir like a 14" gun with that dreadnought. Chilean navy: Si

I read in an Osprey book that the British really liked the Almirante Latorre/Canada, and the Admiralty considered her one of the better ships in the Grand Fleet during WWI. I guess Chile could be happy that their ship was Royal Navy-certified.

Do a video on the Bolivian Navy. Yes I know it will be a short video. ;-)

Britain: hey Your battleship is in my parking space... Brazil: oh hey yeah sorry, can you just send it back to us?Britain, Ha! nooooooo

"Yes, Virginia, Argentina was once financially sound."

It is interesting to think that all the 3 LatinAmerican Dreadnoughts could have been modernized like the battleships of the Main naval powers between world wars. For Minas Gerais, They could have changed the 6 twin 12' turrets with 4 twin 14 inch /45 like the ones in the USS New York and Nevada classes. Also a propulsion plant change and bow redesign could have resulted in modern battlecruisers for the time being. If the focus would have been into "Battleship like" upgrade, protection could have been improved (both belt and deck) but i think the starting point was too low to get to a satisfying result, therefore a too much of a large improvement should have been needed. At the end of the day, a Kongo-like modernization should have been the best bet for the class. The Rivadavia Class could have received similar main armament modernization (replacing the 6 twin 12' with 4 twin 14/45) change that was in fact planned by the Argentineans as a part of a major upgrade plan for the class, but budget restriction forced to maintain the 12 inchers. In this class, the belt and deck armor had a better starting point, so at the end of the day a propulsion plant change and increase in the deck and belt armor would have been posible, ended up with battleships on pair with USS Standars in terms of protection and about as good as Kongos in terms of firepower. Lastly, Latorre could have just incremented his armor protection both belt and deck at the expense of speed, which could have even been compensated with a new improved powerplant. There's no doubt this was the battleship with best upgrade perspective, since it started with guns that were not obsolete for WW2 standars. At some point the Latin American naval race was in response to pure theoretical conflict. Except for the 1978 south border "Beagle" crisis between Argentina and Chile, the relationships where allways very peacefull between the 3 neighbors. Despite that, armed forces between the 3 where allways on pair (parity which in fact broke after 1982 Malvinas/Falklands conflict, due to the fact that Argentina was gradualy desarmed). That being said, i think the Argentinean Dreadgnouths at a distance of about 10NM had better belt protection and firepower enough to penetrate Brasilean and Chilean ships... but those advantages where so slight that at the end of the day a conforntation result would have been absolutely circumstantial

Minas Gerais was the first battleship built in the Dreadnought era to NOT include torpedo tubes? How were they at the forefront of such thinking?

And fast forward to 2018 and planes and submarines are the battleships of today. Although Brazil once again had a second hand carrier, this time French rather than British, the worn out condition of the carrier combined with several major fires since being brought on strength in 2000 led to her decommissioning in 2017 and probable scrapping. Given the need for the Brazilians to have something that looked like a carrier in the fleet, she scrambled to make the British and offer they couldn't refuse and purchased the ex-HMS Ocean, renaming her the Atlantico. Since she is a mere 20 years old, the youngest major ship purchased from another navy since the Brooklyn class light cruisers in 1951, there's some chance that she may remain in service for another 15 years or so as a helicopter carrier. The dreams of Brazil to operate a true fixed wing carrier appear to be dashed at the moment. Argentina and Chile are no longer major players in South America. Argentina is in deep financial trouble, and her surface fleet has been relegated to possibly a few corvettes. Chile maintains a much more effective navy, but the youngest combat ships are the ex British Duke class frigates at 28 years old with other classes now being 30 years old or or older. Chilleans now seem content to control the Pacific coastline of her long borders while maintaining a navy strong enough to dissuade the Argentine and Peruvian Navies from any mischief. Speaking of Peru, while she wasn't part of the early 20th century arms race, she has now modernized most of her vessels and is probably the equal of Chile and much stronger than Argentina. The newest race is for submarines and naval aircraft. The Brazilians are still talking about building a nuclear sub, and Brazil, Peru, and Chile will all have air-independent submarines sometime in the 2020's. AI subs will be the new Dreadnoughts of the 21st century. Brazil is looking toward Embraer to build a new maritime patrol aircraft that would be the equal of the P-3 Orion, as well as maintaining their current fleet of upgraded Skyhawks, aircraft that don't have a carrier to operate from after a long battle with the Air Force to allow the Navy to operate fixed wing combat aircraft. There are rumors that Peru is in talks with Russia for a new maritime patrol platform as well as new SU-35s that could serve as maritime strike aircraft. Chile may cooperate with Brazil and Embraer in purchasing a new maritime patrol aircraft while continuing to upgrade its considerable fleet of F-16s. The Dreadnought race may be over but the arms race in South America continues unabated.

"Managed to make it to the scrap yard without vanishing." LOL Classic

Nice vid, but you forget about something related to the Rivadavia-class, take a look at this: "The Argentine government requested in 1929 in Germany, projects for the replacement of the 305mm Bethlehem guns, and obtained up to three proposals: the simplest one consisted of conserving the guns but modified to shoot heavier projectiles and with greater angle of elevation. Another proposed to replace it with pieces of the same caliber but with a new model. Finally, it was suggested the replacement of the 12 guns by 6 double main turrets of 356 mm. The lack of budget (because in those years two modern cruisers and three submarines were hired in Italy and two destroyers in Spain) made the main armament of Moreno and Rivadavia not change."

The race kept on after WWII: see Brazil's constant search for carriers.

"And then the crew mutinied"

The poor: Government, why did you spent all the money for capital warships instead providing a perspective for us? Government: So you go hungry with pride.

Very interesting. We often hear about the major power's ships but rarely about the South American ones. Great work!

Do an episode of Finnish coastal defence ship Ilmarinen (and Väinämöinen). "Finland must be a strong sea power, even their lighthouse ships are armed with 10-inch guns."

4:55 In most latin languages, including Portuguese, G is pronounced like the "S" is in the word "Vision".

7:14 Thanks for that moment of exquisite British humor :-D

One really can not blame the other nations for accusing the US contractors of deliberately underbidding to get the contract, as everyone in the US knows, that it is all too common for a military contractor to underbid then double or triple the agreed upon cost and several years behind on delivery while the more problems that are encountered, the longer it takes to build the item and the more they get paid! if you have any doubts, just check out the F-35 and the USS Ford!, for example!!

If you want to review a rarely discussed ship, you can go over the tribal class destroyers of world war two. They were more like pocket cruisers than destroyers and played significant roles in every engagement they were involved in. The last of her kind ( There was a total of 27 of the type built in England and in Canada ) H.M.C.S. Haida, is now a museum ship in Hamilton Ontario Canada. The most powerful destroyer of the war in my opinion.

Just some notes in the pronounciation of the portuguese names on brazilian ships: the GE in Geraes is pronounced as /ʒeˈɾajs/ . This video has the correct pronounciation (Note that the new writing form is to match the pronounciation) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l5d-fNd8vq-ofWQ.html . The CH in Riachuelo is pronounced as the SH in English words like shoe, english, shop, shield and not like the CH in words like Michelangelo, Michael etc.

Great video, even more so as most of these ships were built in my home town, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. The Rio de Janeiro was sold to the Ottomans even before it was completed and 500 sailors turned up in 1914 to collect it. The British however seized the ship and Churchill ordered it to be held by force if necessary, after the Turkish sailors threatened to board her. The seizure of the ship, which had been partly funded by public subscription, was actually illegal and was a major factor in the Ottomans deciding to ally themselves with the central powers during WW1. At Gallipoli they got their revenge on Churchill, who was forced to resign as First Lord of the Admiralty after the invasion turned into a disaster. The Rio de Janeiro eventually became HMS Agincourt and fought at the Battle of Jutland, along with many more ships built in Newcastle.

The best ship to go into depth on is BB-35, USS Texas, "The Last Dreadnought".

1:39 "such as rubber, coffee, BEEF, and min-rals"

Just found this channel, your vids and research skills are great! From one history lover and writer awesome work and never stop!

It's worth noting, though, that some time after the mutiny on the Brazilian Navy was resolved, the government went back on some of the promises. Things got pretty brutal, and there are reports of unjust jailings and torture. Some of the mutineers leaders were harassed for years. It didn't help that most of the sailors involved were poor or of african American descent, contrasting with the Navy leadership.

Very well summary of this often forgotten arms race that was deadly serious for an entire continent. I love these kinds of forgotten history, especially this one as it was influential outside of South America as well. Thank you for making this video.

well that was bloody marvellous. I thoroughly enjoyed that vid. BTW I subscribed on the basis of 1 vid because this was well researched and no nonsense. You get to the point and I finally got a 'recommended for you' etc vid that delivers!

I'm surprised I haven't run across this channel yet. Very informative video. I've always been fascinated with the navy and have even considered joining on a few occasions. You got yourself a new subscriber. :)

I arrived 2 years late to this amazing content! What a magnificent channel you have, sir! The cited bibliography is astounding, the geopolitical insights. I'm just an enthusiast of naval history, I know a couple of guys here in Venezuela that could add more interesting facts for future Latin American naval history-related videos. Congratulations, sir!

Great video! Never thought I would see a video on this topic. Instant like and subscribed!

Thank you very much for this video. Was very informative about the history of this ships.

Thank you so much for this video! Had been waiting for it for a while now! :D

Wheras every tech story of the last three or four decades can be summed up with "and then the Internet happened", Naval stories are "then HMS Dreadnought happened" and "then the aircraft carrier happened".

This was awesome. And then the robot voice starts up at the end - perfect, just ... perfect.

Knew this was worth covering! Amusingly presented. Thank you.

Excellent and amusing overview of the arms race. Earned yourself a sub.

Good video, with the occassional dose of humor. Looking back at the HMS Agincourt video I realized that there is quite a part of that included here, but now without the robot voice.

What do you mean a battle ship vanished in a storm

Thanks Drachinifel for this amazing review! So good I didn't bother with the portuguese names pronunciation being butchered ;-) This part of South American history is not ver well known here in Brazil, so I loved the in-detail narrative. Keep up the fantastic work!

As someone who reads the comments. I would have to say most are very well thought out. And contain alot of good info.

You have mentioned in a couple of your videos, that the RN used 13.5" guns while commercial yards (like Vickers and Armstrong) was exporting ships with 14" guns. Perhaps part of the reason is that the RN had pre-dreadnoughts (Trafalgar and Royal Sovereign classes) armed with 13.5" guns and thus had experience with the gun caliber (in this case I mean size not barrel length) and had a stock of 13.5" shells already on hand. I remember reading (many years ago) about how, during WW1, they were still using shells with VR marked on them. This might help explain the poor performance of some of the shells at Jutland.

Great work by Drach, I would highlight an interesting codicil linking to another of his videos - I managed to mention this unusual link between the British navy and those of Chile, Canada and Japan at a lunch with all 4 represented about 15 years ago. Admiral Nimitz helped enable the restoration of the Mikasa as a museum ship at the end of the 1950s - but where might you get any similar-age parts for a British battleship? - having been HMS Canada and then returning to be the Almirante Latorre, she was taken to Japan to be scrapped ..... where bits can still be seen.

Awesome channel. I’m subscribing!

1:22 Woe! Some of their boarders took up Antarctica? That is amazing! I never thought I would learn that.

Loved seeing all these navies put into one video. It makes sence of their arms race and how it affected the policies of the various governments. Q&A what are the advantages and disadvantages of the very different methods of loading the propellant charges in BB guns? The British and others used bagged charges while the Germans used brass cartridge cases for all guns, right up to the very biggest in WW2. Is one system superior to the other or is it trade offs between the two? I can see pluses and minuses to both.

All your ships belong to us! -UK 1914.

Extremely witty. Thank you for sharing.

Somehow my combination interest in miltary vehicles and world of warships brought me here. And I'm glad that it did *subbed*

A random Click brought me here. A subject I never thought about. A fascinating insight into history, and current problems with military procurement. Thank you.

Very good my friend. Greetings from Brasil!

Another excellent and informative video! Thank You! Ship Request: U.S.S. Abbot DD 629 "Semper Primus" (1943-1975). Fought in WW2 and Korean Conflict, also at one point survived ramming an aircraft carrier and sailed back to dry dock under her own power.

Back where it all started for me. I was immediately captivated that someone was actually doing a video on these ships and off my interest went in Drach’s work.

Great imagery and detail!

South America is always seen as second-tier republics. I agree with this because these republics, almost always, were never really representative of their peoples. Dictatorships have almost always been the most popular system. In South America, there was a country that was not a republic but a monarchy whose principles resembled the Republic of the United States and Great Britain and other monarchies and perhaps beyond. This Kingdom was free press, so free that the monarch did not mind the attacks of the opposition newspapers. This monarch said that the press fight with press. At that time, in England, for example, if the king or queen were treated in this way, those responsible for the slander would be arrested under penalty of attempted national security. Yes, one day there in South America was a kingdom where the king was acclaimed and known throughout Europe and the United States, is an American newspaper once proposed a fictitious election where this king would be a fictitious candidate for President of the United States of America . We are speaking here of the emperor of Brazil, Dom Pedro II. But perhaps no one here knows of these things, because the republican leaders and slave owner of the Republic of Brazil erased the historical memory of those days and destroyed everything that the king did well and honored. The Republic of Brazil brought the dictatorship of fascism and communism to the gates of Brazil. The fruits of the good work King can be seen in the early 20th century and perhaps in the present day. Note: Pedro II had no slaves...

Wow never knew any of this. Found it very fascinating.

Thanks. That was interesting. I was aware of the Canada but thought there were more that were taken over. The Agincourt was the former Rio de Janeiro. After it had been sold to Turkey, while still under construction, when WWI started it was taken over by Britain along with a ship they were already building for Turkey which became HMS Erin. .

Gave me a chuckle or two that video. Nice one :D

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

I really love your videos! I wish you would do more age of sail content.

Excellent channel.

Had a random thought that the British should have offered all 3 countries several used pre-dreadnought ships from the UK fleet at a discount with the delivery due just before the Dreadnought was put in the water. This would have at a stroke given all 3 the ships they wanted while allowing the British to get rid of some of the fleet they were about to make obsolete. lol

This was incredibly interesting. I never thought about what the other nations were doing at the time militarily.

Very interesting. Thank you.

In 1826 was the victory against the Portuguese Navy that assured the independence of Brazil. During the whole XIX century the imperial navy was the main defense force of Brazil, since the European imperialist powers were perceived as a greater threat than any neighbour nation. After a decade of politic turmoil following the republican coup of 1889, Brazil had not a functional navy. In 1903 the invasion of Itajai by German fusiliers in search of desertor sailors from the German warship Panther waked up the government of Brazil to the threat by colonial powers such as Germany, and the necessity to rebuild the navy, what was possible at that time. The Brazilian dreadnoughts were not planned to face neighbours but of course it is natural that Brazil would aim to be the leader of the region. The expensive naval programs in S. America would finish when the countries agreed to limit their forces to an affordable level.

fantastic video, very interesting!

Excellent video on a topic I'm into. but knew little about. :)

Great review, been interested in South American Dreadnoughts for some time. It was noticeable from Janes 1919 that Brazil, Argentina and Chile prior to WWI were locked into a regional navel arms race or there own.

Great vid Drach, I wasn't aware of the US seeking to purchase Latorre after Pearl Harbor. Fascinating.

I wish HMS Agincourt, or the ship that ultimately became her, had been covered in a little more detail but a great video, thanks.

Great video....👍🏻👌🏻👏🏻

Thank you, fun and interesting.

A wonderful story.

I didn't know about the Minas Gerais!! Cool!

Really good.I worked for Vickers Elswick for quite a number of yearsand after when we transfered along the road to a new works at Scotswood.A really good book is The Big Battleship by Richard Hough,the history of Agincourt (Known as the gin palace due to the sheer size of the wardroom) When it was stopped from being handed over to the Turks troops from Fenham barracks in Newcastle were called out in case of trouble.The only alterations required were the turning over of brass plates on machinery etc as they had been engraved in arabic on one side and English on the other as well as toilet arangements.

REQUEST: CSS Stonewall/Kotetsu

Drachinifel, I would be interested in the layout and service history of the larger ships of Brasil, Argentina, Chile and Peru in the post WW2 era, specifically the purchased cruisers, most of which were US Brooklyn class ships as well as the aircraft carriers. The naval operations during Operation Soberania as well as the Falklands War would also be great for future videos. Thanks

happy to be the 8000th subcriber. :)

Interesting, for a follow up what was the composition of the rest of their navy's, destroyers metal you know the bits that do the actual work

In the end it didn't matter much, on account of Chile not fighting any wars during the 20th century. But it strikes me that they really should've just bought back Almirante Cochrane and kept her as an aircraft carrier. That would've given them the prestige of fielding a type of warship that their rivals lacked, after all. Oh, and IIRC the main reason that Fore River was able to give a lower bid than any of the British shipyards for the Argentine dreadnoughts was that steel prices in America were much lower than in Britain at the time.

Oh joy, this is too HILARIOUS 😆😂😂😂😂😂

Rivadavia class 1937/38 Historical Characteristics - Dimensions: 181.2 × 30.0 meters. - Displacement: standard 28,000 & full 33,590 long tons. - Machinery: 3 engines; 18 boilers; 3 shafts. - Engine power: 54,000 horsepower. - Fuel: coal 50 & oil 5,470 tons. - Range: 8,500 @ 10 & 3,930 @ 22.5 nautical miles @ knots. - Maximum speed: 23.2 knots. - Aircrafts: ~1 seaplanes. - Complement: 1,250 people. - Belt protection: 305-254 + 76 millimeters. - Deck protection: 38 + 38 + 51-38 + 38 millimeters. - Main guns: 12 x 305mm/50cs on turrets. - Secondary guns: 12 x 152mm/50cs on casemates. - Tertiary guns: 0. - Torpedo launchers: 2 x 533mm launchers on underwater side mounts. - Antiaircraft and minor guns: 4 x 47mm/50cs around superstructure, ~4 x 40mm/39 on deck, 7 x 20mm/65cs on superstructure and 5 x 7.65mm around superstructure and deck.

Gotta love how you said Mina Gerais

The two Brazilians ships had served out of French ports in Northwest Africa guarding the southern approaches to the convoy routes from the US both were in the US in the Fall of 1918 being refitted prior to joining the Grand Fleet

Richard Hough wrote a great book on the dreadnought race. Centered around the ownership of the HMS Agincourt (aka a gin palace)

All three of these countries during this period also happened to have rifles arguably superior to this of the Allies in WWI. They had PLENTY of money apparently.

Have you done the history of the peruvian Huascar or the chilean Esmeralda? If not, I recomend you do

Rivadavia class 1914/15 Historical Characteristics - Dimensions: 181.2 × 30.0 meters. - Displacement: standard 27,720 & full ~31,650 long tons. - Machinery: 3 engines; 18 boilers; 3 shafts. - Engine power: 40,900 horspower. - Fuel: coal 4,000 & oil 660 long tons. - Range: 7200 @ 15ks & 10,200 @ 11 nautical miles @ knots. - Maximum speed: 22.6 knots. - Complement: 1,215 people. - Aircrafts: 0 seaplanes. - Belt protection: 305-254 + 76 millimetres. - Deck protection: 38 + 38 + 51-38 millimetres. - Main guns: 12 x 305mm/50cs on turrets. - Secondary guns: 12 x 152mm/50cs on casemates. - Tertiary guns: 16 x 102mm/50cs around hull, deck and turrets. - Torpedo launchers: 2 x 533mm launchers on underwater side mounts. - Antiaircraft and minor guns: 4 x 47mm/50cs around superstructure and 6 x 7.65mm around superstructure and deck.

I'd like to hear about the aircraft carrier race, if there was one.