Speaker Spotlight | John Darko’s take on speakers and acoustics (Part 1)

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Күн бұрын

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Learn how to build your own professional-looking broadband bass trap that works down to 40Hz and a diffusor front that keeps your high-end lively:
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It’s finally here!!
My interview with JOHN DARKO, where he answers all the questions that YOU submitted on speakers, acoustics and all the intricacies and subtleties that only someone with as much listening experience as John can know.
So first of all: Thank you so much to everyone who submitted a question!
In fact I got so many that I decided to make this a two-parter.
In Part 1 we discuss:
- What audiophiles should know about mixing engineers
- What to look for to get excellent sound imaging
- Do measurements tell us how a speaker sounds?
- What recording qualities ensure good sound on most speakers?
- How much of what we hear is speaker, how much is the room?
- How much treatment to hear the real difference between speakers?
- The most common difference between high end speakers
- Recommendations for reference tracks for mixing
- Does mood affect how something sounds?
- Coaxial driver layout vs standard speakers designs
- Acoustics advice/recommendations based on John’s experience
- Minimum price for speakers before investing in acoustics
- Opinions on active bass traps like the AVAA C214
This was a really fun conversation with a trusted friend. And you can tell because we really dove DEEP into this ice berg of a nerdy subject.
Also keep an ear out for an announcement on my part on the PSI AVAA C214… ;)
Timecodes:
00:00 - Intro
02:44 - Correct speaker positioning in an odd shaped room
05:07 - John’s disclaimer
06:07 - What should mixing engineers know about audiophiles?
11:10 - What should audiophiles know about mixing engineers?
14:52 - What to look for to get excellent sound imaging?
16:36 - Do measurements tell us how a speaker sounds?
18:53 - What sound aspects are not captured by measurements?
21:44 - What recording qualities ensure good sound on most speakers?
27:18 - Placing the listening position facing the long wall.
30:56 - How much of what we hear is speaker, how much is the room?
31:32 - How much treatment to hear the real difference between speakers?
35:57 - Most critical part of the spectrum for production/mixing?
37:24 - The most common difference between high end speakers
39:13 - Recommendations for reference tracks for mixing
42:27 - Does mood affect how something sounds?
44:45 - Coaxial driver layout vs standard speakers designs
47:42 - Acoustics advice/recommendations based on John’s experience
53:52 - Minimum price for speakers before investing in acoustics
58:23 - Opinions on active bass traps like the AVAA C214
Related blog post on Acoustics Insider:
www.acousticsinsider.com/blog...
Resources in this video:
John Darko on acoustic treatment in his room in portugal:
• This hi-fi UPGRADE cha...
Acoustics Insider on Social Media:
/ acousticsinsider

Пікірлер: 45

@macxpert3588 Ай бұрын

I used to be a Hi-Fi person but throughout my career I worked in studios and pro sound (sound reinforcement) & disco sound, although I graduated with a B eng in electronics. My home "Hi-Fi" system does have some high end amps and other equipment but where my system is not typically Hi-Fi is the speakers. I designed and built them myself using an Altec 511B horn with a 802-8G tangerine compression driver and a 15 inch bass driver that I designed and made myself. Why a 15 and horn? Well every studio I worked in used some variation of a 15 and horn for monitoring back in the 70s and 80s. To me the most pleasing sound and possibly the most accurate sound of the music I listen to was produced using such monitors. The Hi-Fi boys never liked my set up but it suits me.

@timsarlos6403 Ай бұрын

Well you sir, are a true gentleman.

@johnthorpedidge Ай бұрын

I'm both an audiophile and a sound engineer and was a hi fi enthusiast. My enthusiasm for hifi was based on both the love of music and the love of sound. I spent thousands of hours testing cables, electronic parts and power supplies in the quest for a wonderful emotive sound system. I even worked with an amplifier designer for about a year. I don't have such enthusiasm for the hifi anymore because I got it to where I want it to be some time ago. In fact, if I could make it invisible in the room so as to just listen to music/sound, that would be great. In the video, John was saying that, unlike some audiophiles, he is more interested in the music than the sound. Maybe his point here is to separate himself from any extremism that can exist with some audiophiles, considering he reviews hifi equipment. The point I'd like to make is that although sound is an intrinsic part of music (& vice versa) not everyone has a love for sound. I play an instrument which I explore in a musical sense yet also it's an exploration of sound. I love to explore all its nuances, timbre, sound space etc. I use my hifi (or mastering system or studio system) to listen to 'audiophile' (or high quality) recordings where poor recordings will just sound bad. Whereas poor recordings I can listen to the music without sound quality on the phone or TV! Maybe having a passion for sound is a quirky thing, yet it is also an adventure and a joy. Lastly, what I've found over the years is to find a balance, not just in one's desire for a good sound system but also in life. In fact, finding such balance in the sound system is also a key to success. Of course we live in an acoustic world, so acoustics are inevitably part of that balanced solution. Enjoyed listening to the chat/video🤗.

@mokobigbro Ай бұрын

You're right on the money! I went through a similar experience and am in alignment with you and John Darko (just realized you both are John)

@johnthorpedidge Ай бұрын

I don't love all types of sound or 'noise'. It is subjective as is music as a whole. My interest is in musical instruments and sound systems and certain spaces , eg reverb . As a didge player, I particularly love playing in coastal caves, as the echo and reverb and space creates an amazing ambience . I can also simulate it via reverbs etc. So, I can love that sound without necessarily playing any particular tune or rhythms despite the fact that rhythm is a strong part of my playing. Hope that makes a bit of sense.

@nicktube3904 Ай бұрын

I like your story because you also explored cables, psu’s and stuff.. which can bring quite allot. Were on the same boat, but I just started building acoustic panels. Can you put a percentage on what threading the first reflections does compared to all the equipment and cable, PSU and tweaks?

@johnthorpedidge Ай бұрын

Generally first reflection points very important and I also built broadband absorbers for studio and added a few GIKs diffusers that look nice too. However, in a previous place with a large listening room I had almost no acoustic treatment yet had a superb sound there. There would of course have been natural air absorption. In my new place, two rooms, both now sounding quite good with a fair bit of acoustic absorbtion/diffusion. Regarding first reflection vs cables/power supplies etc: acoustic panels can have a big effect on improving sound quality of course but no acoustic panels can improve the signal quality of audio equipment. Connections, cables, etc, I extend as an integral part of the equipment. So, both sides of the equation are beneficial to one another and you can't go wrong with diminishing returns. The only reason I ended up spending years testing cables and power supplies was after I sold my Linn Sondek and decided to go down the CD route because I wasn't a vinyl collector. Otherwise I loved the sound of the Linn The CD player was practical for me but a step down. It took me about 4-5 years to get the sound where I wanted it, which taught me about frequencies etc, cabling, connections, power supplies, and went onto modify my preamps, amps etc. so, I basically used my previous electrical knowledge, some electronics, sound engineering. I have retained in my head all the experimental approach over the years and of course the starting point was to get set up the speakers in the correct position, on different platforms etc (speaker positioning changed after cable or power supply alterations) but that's another story!

@johnthorpedidge 29 күн бұрын

@@nicktube3904forgot to mention that once I got up to the point where a/b listening tests were getting more subtle, I then had to factor in psychoacoustics. It was all good fun🤗

@simonupstone4924 Ай бұрын

Fascinating conversation. Thank you for sharing

@SuperMcgenius Ай бұрын

What was not discussed in this part was the importance of speaker placement, which can take anywhere from an hour to days. Like a cars Suspension, small adjustments can make a big difference.

@johnthorpedidge Ай бұрын

I agree that speaker placement is pretty crucial. And what you place the speakers on. And yes for best results it takes time and experimentation

@BrentLeVasseur Ай бұрын

While I agree in principle with everything John said, there are some exceptions in certain speaker designs that enable you to get by with a mostly untreated room. And also when it comes to sound stage width/depth and imaging. In my experience the pinnacle is in a well designed open baffle loudspeaker because it is essentially a dipole where the lower base frequencies specifically, which are omnidirectional and cause ‘room boom’ at the room mode frequency are mostly negated with an open baffle design. Also if that open baffle speaker has a horn tweeter it also helps mitigate reflections from the sidewalls which contributes to the reverberant effect of an untreated room. A couple examples of end-game level open baffle speakers are the NX-Extreme DIY speakers from GR-Research with a pair of open baffle servo subs, and the speakers I have which are the Spatial Audio X5s. Both are amazing sounding in an untreated room. Having said that, treatment will improve the sound quality a lot in any case and is recommended. But if you can’t or don’t want to treat your room for whatever reason, be it functional or aesthetic reasons, you can mitigate most of that with an open baffle speaker design. And there are also active studio monitors that mimic the effect of an open baffle design by using a cardiod speaker arrangement with DSP such as the Kii Three active monitors and the Dutch & Dutch 8c monitors. Both of those will give you excellent frequency response in an untreated room similar to an open baffle speaker.

@net_news Ай бұрын

agree 100%!! Magnifico post!!

@SuperMcgenius Ай бұрын

Nice interview, worked in pro audio and hi end home audio. Absolutely yes to the room, if you are looking to buy or rent a new space try to find a good room to begin with so you don’t have to put so many Band-Aids on the bad room.

@MadLadsAnonymous 12 күн бұрын

Good tip but unrealistic in many housing scarce markets; people can't find reasonable places to live to begin with. Add in "room acoustics" as a deciding factor and you're screwed.

@cremersalex Ай бұрын

Strange, Erin from Erin's Corner will always listen to the music first and when his ears hear, for instance, excessive treble, his extensive measurements will show peaks and bumps in the HF. However, am I to understand it's all bogus because according to the your guest there's no correlation between what you are hearing and measurements? A month ago I bought a pair of headphones and I quickly noticed they have too much bass (with double basses sounding very boomy). Then I start looking for measurements and all the graphs showed strong, wide bumps from 40 to 160 Hz. My conclusion was next time to look for measurements first before buying speakers or headphones. So, yes, maybe they are bogus to some reviewers and speaker designers, but I think measurements, especially frequency response, can come very handy.

@user-mz6lt2pr9s 26 күн бұрын

Thanks for the video. Interesting discussion. I agree with looking at measurements to help narrow down your speaker selection. Then audition in your listening room. Listen to your favorite album or songs you know by heart. Does it sound good to you in your room with your equipment. If yes and you’re happy you are good to go. Oh, in addition, do they look cool. Equipment needs to sound good and look good to me to make me happy. Rock on!

@draztiqmeshaz6226 Ай бұрын

I am overjoyed to hear you mention Burnt Friedman!! Now I don't have to recommend the Secret Rhythms albums in the comments every other video 😅

@guystpierrecomposer Ай бұрын

Nice conversation! I have both, studio with full treatment and living room with none. It is not true in my opinion to say you always need to put room treatment. In a studio, yes. But living rooms are vastly different. My living room for exemple, have to much decay BUT it sound wonderful (lots of wood, 4 m ceiling, uneven wall, lots of natural diffusers) . An other same dimension room can sound horrible… And by the way, some 2 ways go down to 25hz like my Buchardt A10 ;)

@tugbars4690 Ай бұрын

This is going to be fun to watch.

@robertpeterson8640 Ай бұрын

I have a comment regarding perceptions that folks have of audiophiles. I was having some hearing issues and I was at an audiologist so the doctor could try to get at the problem. I asked the audiologist for a full range frequency response graph of my hearing. She asked me why and I told her I was a music lover and an audio hobbyist. She rolled her eyes and said “you guys are the worst.” She was good natured about it and did what I asked in addition to what the doctor had requested. The result was my hearing falls off dramatically after about 8K. I am 68 so this is not unusual but I stopped using tweeters. Only single driver speaker in my house now.

@thomaslutro5560 Ай бұрын

I'm not sure you're well served by that approach. I'd think something that has a flat response to your 8k, on axis and off, would be the way to go. Meaning you'll still need a tweeter, a big one, but tweeter still. I do believe you'll hear an even frequency response as a good thing, and as linear a room reflection as you dan get.

@sparklemotionguitars Ай бұрын

@@thomaslutro5560 his approach also ignores transients that a good tweeter will deliver, even in his hearing range. Bye hearing rolls off at 9750, so with his rubric, I could get away with a 2-way bass and mid configuration, but with a three-way and a good horn tweeter crossed at 5kHz, I'm getting improved illumination of low frequency instruments from the transient response of the drivers, even though I can't hear from 10K on. There's also the value of a good system for other listeners whose hearing isn't as impaired.

@johnpischedda6951 Ай бұрын

Is part 2 of this video available yet ?

@TS-ex4dl 29 күн бұрын

Down to earth.

@NeilBlanchard Ай бұрын

Here's a dichotomy - the better a system is (in my opinion) - the more it reveals the differences between *recordings*. So, this makes it even more important to live with speakers/system for a longer time, and listen to a greater variety of recordings. I want to make a point about 2-way speakers not having extended bass - that may be true with typical sealed/ported box speakers? But with a well designed mass loaded transmission line speaker - a 2-way with a nominal 6" midwoofer, my Tower 6 speakers are essentially flat in room to 28Hz.

@cesarjlisboa7586 20 күн бұрын

The weather, plays a very important piece, when we talking about same setup and everything else the same,sounds differently

@SuperMcgenius Ай бұрын

Source quality, Digital converters, and analogue output, to speakers and amplifiers can have a major impact on quality, but generally not on frequency response. Rupert Neve mic, preamp For example will always sound better than Something came off of a $500 Behringer, unless you have really bad speakers, and a terrible room😢

@johnpischedda6951 Ай бұрын

I really relate to John's view on Gear to enhance your music. But sometimes you get sidetracked and get too caught up in the gear and down a rabbit hole. There's no right or wrong here I guess its what you want to prioritise.

@net_news Ай бұрын

dipoles for the win.

@EricRhodeslives Ай бұрын

Timbre. How is that measured? One grand piano to another 800 htz on a cello or some other instrument?

@Mikexception Ай бұрын

@@chinmeysway I am convinced that people misunderstand the problem. In every system and specially speaker we can find some no equity of reproduction in even smallest most narrow bands. - no need to proof.. ALWAYS it appears as "emptiness" - because in neighbour good band we obtain overlay. For ear on parts which apparently are properly reproduced it creates in listening lack of harmonics . Most people accept it and call it modern audiophile sounding, in opposition to 60-70 years sounding . When they experience that in place of that "vacuum" there is adequate sound they explain it for themself as something artificial and in modern times they call it even order harmonics (false reproduction) What is not explanable to all they say it is good?. . Facing that we listen to output power about 5% of rated power where any harmonic distorion cannot be heard such claim is not supported,.

@EricRhodeslives Ай бұрын

@@chinmeysway naw.. That doesn't measure well with me.

@Mikexception Ай бұрын

We can define deficiences in sounding only by listening to system for long time and testing specially with old recordings which are most suitable because by nature of past technic were not embossed and deatiled as it is possible today . Such raw recordings do not hide deficiences of system and while they sound for all perfect also modern are perfect in best sense,. I would say the we hear what we at all are able to hear - it may be our room reverbeartion or reverberation reproduced from recording . (First condition is that our room is not a stone hall with long reverberations - that is mistake). In average damped room , we are able to notice only maximum levels of reverberations. Reproduced reverberation is louder and overlays room acoustic. .Example for church recordings feel iike in church, not in our room. Opposite when acoustic atteched to recording is hidden down below sounds of instruments (because is weakly reproduced) then in that empty band we can hear our room acoustic. , instead of full concert we get impression onlly of reroduction going on in our room reverberation . If we kill them with tratment we can get impression of dry reproduction in open space - it would not replace perfect speakers.

@SuperMcgenius Ай бұрын

Regarding speaker, measurement, and sound quality. I’ve experienced two prototype speakers that measured almost identically and sounded quite different in quality. Yes, measurements are important, but as was stated, do not tell the whole story

@yilunong2291 Ай бұрын

So... Should audiophiles with the ability to fully treat their rooms start to treat their listening rooms in the exact same steps and also to the same extent that sound engineers do?

@oldvalvemic Ай бұрын

Audiophiles that focus purely on specs and gear are basically missing the point really. The correct analysis here of the room being almost everything for music listening has been almost completely ignored by the high end community in favour of selling very expensive and often gaudy boxes that the professional world likes to laugh at. There is a lot that can be done in the domestic sense that can replicate some of the sound conditioning that professional studios have that can bring modest equipment and speakers into realms of the high end. A balanced and sensible approach of understanding some basic physics and then enjoying the hobby (well job for me anyway) of listening to music that offers the magic trick of sound dangling emotionally in mid air.

@KaneDWilliams 28 күн бұрын

Mastering engineers will class £2000 speakers as about as little as you want to spend for mastering. £5000-£10000 is about average in mastering facilities with some spending much more.