Thanks Simon

Thanks Dean

Thanks. Been raining for a week here. Hope the pendant goes good for you. Cheers Peter

Thanks James, It sure made things easier. Cheers Peter

Thanks David.

Thanks Jeff.

Thanks I personally prefer the hard limit method for setting square as it is easy and accurate. Mechanical switches probably arent the most accurate of things and a small error makes a big difference on a large square. Cheers Peter

Thanks Mark

Thanks Glen.

Thanks Craig glad it helps. Cheers Peter

Thanks Geert

Good one Troy. Glad it helps Cheers Peter

Thanks Jerry.

Thanks Neal, Those old builders knew what they were doing for sure. Cheers Peter

Good one Lee. Good idea using a Vbit to. Mark the tape Cheers Peter

Thanks for sharing and I appreciate you taking the time to share this with us. I used something similar for squaring my tablesaw cross slide. Glad you like the tool setting routine and the is nothing wrong with customising it. After all that is a customised version of another probing routine. Cheers Peter

Why two slots per face? One is not enough? After flipping the sheet over, and making a second slot at some distance, then I should obtain something like a fat "V" shape. So I can measure the top and the bottom of the "V" to get the error... (Note: I mean a slot cutting all through the material, from the top-face down to the bottom-face.)

Thanks Stephen

Thanks Paul.

Hope you like it! Cheers Peter

Thanks Giulio

Thanks John. Wasn't sure if anyone actually read them. Cheers Peter

Thanks John

Thanks Grant

Thanks

Used that for setting up my table saw sled. Works really well but not sure how I would use it setting up the CNC. Sounds a bit expensive if you are cutting up material to test it. The tape is cheaper. I'm just a cheapskate. 😉 Cheers Peter

Hi Perry, You could be right about the up to 0.5 degrees but have you taken into account the gearing effect and thus the actual amount of movement this represents. On a 4 TPI leadscrew the 0.5 degrees represents 0.006" or 0.15mm. If your lead or gearing is coarser than this then the error will be larger and if you are using 10:1 then the error will be smaller, but at the end of the day I am cutting a bit of wood and not components for the next Mars rover. I suspect their error is the equivelent of, or better than, the error you would get from the cheap mechanical lever switches used on many homemade and purchased machines. These lever switches are not precision positioning components but off the shelf switches used for general purpose. They are not designed to reliably operate at precisely the same point every time. You need to pay real money for that sort of functionality. Electronic switches would be the way to go, either light beam or hall effect. People get the impression I don't like limit and homing switches. Personally I couldn't care less either way. All I am saying is I don't "need" them. I have never had a single thought that they would be useful to me or seen my machining suffer from their absence. Dust Bunny mentioned in a comment below the unreliability of mechanical switches on his machine and that inductive ones had improved his homing. I suspect the attitude is, I have switches, it is all automatic and electronic, therefore will always be perfect, but how many people actually bother to test. If you accidentally bump a lever switch arm, which could easily be done, the whole machine could end up miles out of adjustment and without regular testing it will only be noticed when things aren't right. The day I bend a hard limit on my machine I will hardly fail to notice the bruise and intense pain it will cause me. I'm ranting again 😊 Most embarrassing. You are right about the stepper moving slightly when you remove it from Estop. The gearing / lead on your machine will reduce the error by the ratio of your gearing. In my case I don't see the machine move off the hard limits when I remove Estop so the error in my case is very small. I live by the rule of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Let me know your thoughts and if you think it sound reasonable. Cheers Peter

CNCnutz (Peter Passuello) Oh dear, I didn't mean to waste so much of your time - you are very generous with your subscribers. Yes, half of 1.8 degrees is not much and I fully agree with your pragmatic approach to all things. On my machine, I do see it "relax" sometimes when it goes into e-stop, but it might be due other factors - and I do use roller chain rather than a rack drive... I do use hall effect home switches - and you are absolutely correct about lever microswitches being a horrible waste of time. I find being able to simply (and accurately) home the machine makes everything a bit easier... It is great to see you back after the long gap - the videos are always fascinating.

Hi Perry, You weren't wasting my time and it gave me something to think about. Actually you just pointed out an error in my calculations. 1.8 degrees per step not 1 degree as I was foolishly thinking. This will almost double the distance. Mine is rack and pinion so would be similar to your drive. Chain after all is just a flexible rack when you think about it. Maybe also stepper drivers will affect how the stepper behaves when it is repowered. I don't notice any issue myself. Good to know about you limit switch experience. Cheers Peter

In Masso you slave the Y axis to the B and it will do auto squaring when you home the machine. Cheers Peter

@@cncnutz Brilliant, and then that leaves A for the rotary. Thanks for the super fast reply.

Thanks.

I ran cutter down the left hand side of my table which makes it parallel to the Y axis rail. I can put a square on the side and align the stock this way. Cheers Peter

Thanks David

use G91 X600 to move 600 to the right of your point (G91 is relative mode). Using G90 X600 will send your machine to absolute X600 coordinates and, depending on your current XY zero, can lead to serious crash.

That's one of the reasons for using limit switches to prevent such a crash or using homing switches and soft limits. One of the primary uses of limit switches is preventing your own minor mistakes turning into serious ones.

It turns the motor. I could have pushed the gantry by hand but I would have overshot but using the spanner it have control and can use the gears to my advantage for fine tuning. Cheers Peter

Thanks Ari

Thanks

Oh look... Two awesome people talking to each other 😁😁 I've learned so much from you guys, thanks! 👌🏻👌🏻

I know what you mean but not sure what the solution is. I wonder if your machine has linear encoders for homing that remembers where home is. You might have to contact Laguna to find out the process for resetting square. Cheers Peter

Thanks

If the machine is built properly it should run even better with the gantry square. If you find it binds then you will need to figure out why because if the X & Y are not square to one another it will never cut square. Cheers Peter

Thanks Peter! Will keep you posted. Cheers Thomas

Thanks Rob

No worries. Hope it helps. Cheers Peter

There is an entire write up on the process if you follow the link in the description box. Cheers Peter

The machine is home made and based on the 4x4 Hybrid. I purchased the plans from www.joescnc.com The machine has been modified to suit the available components in New Zealand and I have now replaced the Y carriages to ones of my own design. Cheers Peter

CNCnutz (Peter Passuello) thank you for the quick reply!!

The problem with obvious things Gareth is they are only obvious when you think of them. The trick with putiing the tape with the cross under the point only became obvious after a half dozen attempts of trying to draw a spot under the point and failing miserably. Cheers Peter

The tape trick was pure genius;-- I would never have thought of that

Hi Cecil Not quite sure what part you are referring too. Can you give a time reference on the video and I will have a look for you. Cheers Peter

Just looked at the video again and at 3:15 I used a set of wrenches to tighten the collet on the spindle.

Thank you for your reply.....the point of time in the video was about 14:05....I thought it was a wrench.....I'm sorry

Hi Cecil, I think the pieces you are referring to are the hard limits of my machine. They are their primarily to stop the Y axis driving off the end of the rails and chasing me across the workshop. By bringing the gantry as far forward as I can and putting the limits against each side of the axis it can not only ensure, it doesn't go off the rails but I can also use it as a reference to square the gantry. When the gantry is all the way forward and touching both hard limits the gantry will be square. Cheers Peter

Hi David I did check to mark at the origin point after tweaking the right hand side to make sure nothing had moved. If it had moved I would have adjusted the origin point tape. Logically it would have moved but it was so small I couldn't see it, probably 0.01mm over the distance. The longer the axis the smaller the movement will be at the origin point. The only reason I marked the first move (Y-800 X0) was to check the motor calibration and make sure it did move the required distance. If this distance or the 600mm distance was wrong then I was wasting my time. Fortunately mine are correct but it is important to check that first time. The actual angle the axis was moving in will make no difference to the actual distance travelled. In subsequent tests it isn't needed . I don't even need to go to that point anymore so bypassed it all together. (Go directly to home and collect $200) Does that make sense? (Maybe I'm the one missing something.) Let me know. Cheers Peter

Thanks Peter, I figure there is no better way than to check it out myself! I will see if it can be squeezed in this weekend. Will report back on my result. Cheers, David

You can't use different setup on a dual drive. The motors a leadscrews must be the same. Slaving sets the slave axis to use the same settings as the master axis. Cheers Peter

Hmm, OK. I was under the assumption that when we calibrate steps/mm, we mostly calibrate for discrepancies in the motor itself (and not for the machine around it). Was my assumption wrong? Because if we actually calibrate for the motor, and we have 2 different motors, then we would need to have 2 different steps/mm in order to have a truly parallel machine.

Calibration does not compensate for the motors because stepper motors are accurate. If they say 200 steps per revolution then they will be exactly 200 steps per revolution. You need to use matching motors on a dual axis. They don't need to be the same make and model though they really should be. The stepper motors must be the same number of steps per revolution and the leadscrew leads need to be the same. You are compensating for the leadscrew or pinion variation from the advertised. You can use motors with different steps per revolutions on different axis, just not on a slaved axis. Cheers Peter

Got it; we are compensating for the machine, and not the motors, so my assumption was wrong. Thanks. I guess in a perfect world both sides of the machine would still need to be compensated differently, I think, because if the opposite sides of an axis are ever slightly out of parallel, the motors wouldn’t travel the same distance over each one. But in the real world if this was a problem, I guess people would try to fix it more ;)

Well you explain it 10 seconds later

Like I'm saying. He's providing not so good information to those who are clueless. Gotta get those clicks...

Thanks Joe

Thanks Frank

Hi Don, That's some interesting questions that would have me typing for hours so I will try and make a quick video to answer it instead as it might help others decide though it is only my opinion. Cheers Peter

CNCnutz (Peter Passuello) Pete that would be great and give some of use a perspective from your experience of why you have chosen to go with R&P option. Granted common sense says that if your table is larger than a certain size a ball screw or lead screw would not be practical since it would be flapping in the wind and would bow with large distance.

Homing switches let you know that you are at the end of your travel... or at the point of the switch... but they do nothing for the angle of the machine where x meets y. This must be checked and set manually. Nobody has independent home switches on BOTH sides of the Y-Axis... you would need a Y1 and Y2 driver, and sync them separately... and all your G-Code would be much more complex. The only machine i have seen this on is an XYZUV machine used in wire-cutting. X and U are a pair, Y and V are a pair. You can use a probe to determine the angle, but you MUST have a very accurate 90 degree leading edge to compare against... and even then... without doing mathematical (G10Y20 P1 Ra) offsets... it's best to adjust the machine manually.

I really take exception to the “nobody has” statement! I’m on my third home machine; all three have had independent Y axis sensors and drivers. Mach 3 and UCCNC both support homing and control of a pair of motor drives with independent home/limit switches.

Rick VanNorman Then I stand corrected. In the 50 or so machines I have built and serviced, I have not seen this feature. Thanks.

As part of an automatic startup / homing routine it would be convenient. I mention it in my writeup but noted that the first step to get auto squaring working is to square the gantry using the 3, 4, 5 method. Cheers Peter Cheers Peter

CNCnutz (Peter Passuello) 345 method is great but just adjusting a sensor on one side of the gantry forward or back to tweak squareness would be nice and easy and that way every time you start your machine it squares itself without having to deliberately crash it.

It's a high stakes game.

Maybe just because the successive positioning of the measurement ruler at the center of a big "X" is far easier than trying to catch a little marked point... but this is just my speculation. In both cases we're speaking of an "eye ball" tecnique. The bigger the mark, the better the result. I recommend to use a magnifying glass in any case.

Hi jamcdonald120 At that point in the video I am talking about squaring the machine. In the early days the Y axis was dual leadscrew drive and is now rack and pinion. I now have only 1 leadscrew on the Z axis and is not part of the squaring process. Cheers Peter

I look forward to seeing your video on how to do it properly. I have subscribed to your channel so that i do not miss it. I am always happy to learn from an expert such as yourself. In the meantime I have somehow managed to fluke my axis square which will have to do until you put me right.