Coming from Red I was like you, a big SRAM fan, but when faced with a 3 month wait to get a new bike with SRAM or one ASAP with new Ultegra, I went over to the dark side. Boy was I wrong about SRAM. I get you tested the old Di2, but the difference with the new Ultegra is a no brainer. Shimano wins by a real knockout not a TKO! Shifting is way, way better... smoother, faster, quieter, and most importantly, something you can do under full load hammering up a steep climb! Even your battery criteria fell flat after consideration. I already have more charging stations than is reasonable, so NOT having to charge my bike every week is a very good thing. Aesthetics isn't a big deal, but I agree with you, and will add the Red is a little tacky, gotten old...and Rival looks cheap. Lastly, Red and Dura Ace were always in the same league, but now the new Ultegra beats them all and Dura Ace barely wins out, but if you factor is price, it's biggest loser. Maybe time to update your review?!?!

For me, the shifting is the most important aspect, as this is what the group set is intended to do. Shimano wins and the premium price is worth it in my opinion. Shimano hands down. Of course if you are lucky enough to have multiple bikes, than I understand the advantage of the SRAM ecosystem. This is probably a minority of people…

Both great groupsets. It's really a personal choice. I've got Rival eTap AXS on my SL7, and Dura Ace 9100 Di2 on my Shiv. DA shifts a lot smoother and aesthetically I prefer it. AXS I love the single button each side and agree that the App is awesome. I'd happily have either.

I have both 12 speed Di2 and AXS eTap on different bikes and for ME Shimano is the clear winner. 1. Better shifting 2. Better braking - not even close. 3. Longer battery life - although less convenient SRAM maintenance (no cables) and battery convenience is unmatched. …but from my groupset the most important features IMO are, shifting and braking… that should win over convenience… again this is MY opinion.

I had both, but the reason I prefer SRAM is GLOVES! It is a lot easier to shift with SRAM when it is cold and you’re wearing winter gloves. I also find it more intuitive. Both are awesome systems and you can’t go wrong with either though.

One thing I like about the SRAM groupset is the ease of hitting the correct buttons for shifting while wearing winter gloves. Put on some winter gloves and let your hands get nice and cold and try to differentiate between the up and down shift buttons on the Shimano system. With SRAM, there's one big ole' paddle that you can just smack even with bulky frozen mitts.

Great video! My Aethos has Ultegra Di2, which is the only electronic group set I have ever used. I absolutely love the electronic shifting and will never go back. I would definitely give SRAM a try if I had the opportunity.

For battery and charging, Shimano definitely wins. Battery life much longer and charging interval much less. You can round Taiwan once for charging only once

Agreed. I switched from Shimano to eTap AXS and couldn't be happier.

I love how we have 2 excellent, yet different systems available for around the same price point. And Campy is available at a higher price point for those who love that system. I pretty much agree with all of the discussion about Shimano being smoother and prettier, but I just prefer SRAM's eTap, and the ease of installation and maintenance as well (no need to hide the batteries in the seat tube or run wires). It's nice that it pretty much boils down to personal preference rather than having to accept any major disadvantages in choosing between systems.

Another issue to consider is the gear range one would want. As I get older (now over 70), I find myself "needing" lower gear ratios, sometimes less than 1 for long steep climbs. With SRAM, one can have 46/33 front and 10-36 rear, with lowest ratio of 33/36 = .92. The new DI2 systems are "rated" for maximum 34 tooth cog in rear, so with 50/34 front, lowest ratio is 1.0. So that is 8% easier! That being said, I hear that while Shimano and bike shops will not say that a 36-tooth cog is allowed, it can be made to work. Even with SRAM 46/33 in front, highest gear ratio is 46/10=4.6, vs 50/11=4.5 with Shimano, so no loss at high end.

I had to choose SRAM force to get the bike I wanted as there was no shimano di2 in stock. Not too fussed about it but in the future I’ll probably go to di2 to save weight and not have chain dropping issues as much plus a faster shifting performance. I do like the separate batteries with the SRAM, the good gear ratios. If only shimano was easier to find.

Well put together videos. Bravo. I'll start by saying I own both a Force AXS and Dura Ace equipped bike and while it is understandable this your opinion it would seem shifting quality, interface feel and aesthetics would be paramount to the majority of cyclists and far outweigh a $500 cost difference on a top-spec groupset. I very v v seldom find a reason to use either of the apps and Sram just requires too much battery monitoring. The Dura Ace hoods feel great and they don't tend to slide off like the Sram hoods. The Shimano shifting is much crisper and the drivetrain is noticeably quieter. I'll give Sram a slight aesthetic win because I do like the chrome and black but again those hoods and the size of them. Anyway, easy Shimano win for me.

The shifting on R9200 is on another level. Sooo fast and smooth. It's my second DuraAce Di2 groupset and I'm really impressed with the new generation Di2

I was shimano all the way and have 5 bikes with Shimano mechanical groupset COVID forced me to purchase a gravel bike with SRAM FOrce 1 (mechanical) is absolutely brilliant, have now taken delivery (at last) of a new Vitus ZX1 EVO and SRAM RED AXS its f@&king awesome 😎

Shimano all day! The hoods are the selling point for me. Shifting is slightly crisper as well in my Ultegra Di2. I will have to try the app, had my SL7 for a few months (first big boy bike) and never even thought about the app haha

I have a Force eTap equiped Bike myself and in general I really like the eTap, but I think it is just a worse system than DI2. I think the benefits mentioned here are just soft factors, which are nice but it comes off as yeah my cars slower in about every aspect, but I like the color, the soundsystem and it's a bit cheaper. SRAM Force compared to Ultegra: - Shifts slower (a bit in the rear, a LOT in the front) - Brakes are worse - Weighs considerable more - Is louder Furthermore is the brake adjust on sram force and Red a joke. You have leaver and actuation adjustment on paper, but because of the huge shifting pads you basically start to bottom out the lever on your handlebar if you adjust anything more than 15%. It is impossible for me to adjust the lever so that i can comfortably brake from the drops, i always have to cramp my hands upwards, or if I adjust the lever I bottom out the lever having just maybe 60% brakeforce. I have normal sized fingers. No issue with shimano. Also Force has a habit for throwing off the chain when switching to the smaller chainring in the front. When it comes to price I have to say most people buy a bike with a groupset, because the value at least on force and ultegra level is way worse buying the groupset alone, compared to getting it with a bike. And there most of the time both are equal in price. The last thing that pisses me off are some design decisions of SRAM in general. To be more precise the Red crank powermeter and the new wireless Blips. It is mind blowing how one can think a powermeter that is non removable from the chainrings should exist on this earth. Chainrings are consumables and this is just creating more e Waste. Same for the blips. Non removable batteries... the explanation is just bullshit. How tonedeaf can a company be in 2022 to purposley create products for the bin...

Look who I done found! Great videos, brother!

Totally agree with all of that. SRAM is very user beautiful. Shifting is a dream and completely error free. Love it. And now there is micro adjustment from the app! Just tremendous. (says a SRAM fanboy :-))

Great summary and comparison. I too have ridden both, but admit that I haven't tried the new 12spd di2. I found myself agreeing with nearly all of your points where each are better or worse. I would not be surprised if someday Shimano copies SRAM's single lever layout because it's so much more intuitive than the 4 levers. One nice trick I've adopted for SRAM batteries is that I added a battery to the little ziplock bag that I take on all rides, which is now habitual; this is the patch kit/Cash/CC/etc. bag that I take on all rides for emergencies. This change in habit allows me to be pretty lazy about the charging of my etap bikes, but putting a charger right onto my wall bike rack has improved my consistency to pop batteries in the charger at the end of my ride, which I try to do every 3-4 weeks.

Shimano brakes w/ Servo Wave are absolutely sublime. The smallest amount of pressure on the levers will exert huge braking force, makes descending so much more confident. I picked Shimano Dura Ace over SRAM Red for this reason alone.

You lost me when you tried to sell "more batteries needing to be charged more often" as a benefit...how on earth is that a feature/benefit?

For lower tiers than rival and 105 I think that Shimano take the win. Much more options at lower price points and parts are much more plentiful. Great value as well

Thanks for the review! Definitely personal preferences. I also tried both groupsets and Di2 is my go-to groupset hands down. Cheers. BTW, you forgot to mention GRX Di2 - in the gravel world, GRX Di2 is more preferred.

Have both mechanical and Di2 Ultegra, like inter changeability and how easy maintenance is. Preordered new Di2x12 bike. But would like to try AXS and see if I like it.

From what I’ve seen, seems that complete bikes tend to be more expensive when equipped with sram vs shimano. Never understood why. But I think another great thing about sram axs is interchangeability between road and mtb derailleurs. Currently have rival axs on my aethos, but if I had the chance/extra budget for bike stuff I would’ve gone shimano. For me the experience in terms of ergonomics and shift quality beats out everything else that sram offers. Also, I’ve worked on many bikes with both shimano and sram and have had way more headaches with sram stuff.

Garmin button on the hoods sold me, and don’t have to look down and see if you are in the big ring or not.

In the past I owned 1st gen red etap, force AXS etap, ultegra di2 6800, and now rival etap. I enjoyed using them all. I kept getting chain dropped on the Force AXSand had it adjusted several times. Once resolved it worked fine. The Rival one does feel clunky compare to the other sram AXS, but I get that’s it’s the gateway to Wireless shifting. Only upgrade I’m looking into is swapping out the crankset to something lighter and better.

I love my mech force cx1 with 10-42 cassette on my gravel bike and the 2x 10 shimano 5700 on my all city steel commuter road bike . They both perform very well . The only thing i don't like is the Sram DOT bleeding. On a new e shifting bike i would go for a shimano group set cause it looks much better and no more DOT...

You should really be comparing the new 12sp shimano to make it fair since they have updated both hardware and software. I had the previous 11sp Di2 and just got the 12sp. The hoods are so much better and shifting is indeed much smoother. They use batteries in the shifters too but smaller than the cr2032. The app is much better now too. What I like about sram is you don't need the app to micro adjust the RD. Super simple on AXS. Mixing and matching both road and mtb parts is awesome.

Since 2018 l was introduced to 1X drivetrains.. Currently have 2 bikes, 29+ with NX and GX.. works fine, love them ... I just ordered the Surly Ice Cream Truck with Shimano 12 Speed 1X drive.. Believe spec with XLH.. I am excited

The new DuraAce 12 speed on my bike and seriously you cant beat it!

I also have three bikes with SRAM AXS; gravel 1x12, road 2x12 and steel road with 2x12 rim brake. I definitely concur with the value of keeping it in the family from bike to bike. 12 speed convenience speaks for itself and Shimano does not make a 2x12 rim brake group, nor do they offer a true 1/2x12 gravel group (yet). For me, AXS all the way.

I also have both Shimano Di2 (Ultegra) and the older SRAM eTap Red. Both great systems but, for me Shimano just edges it primarily because of the batteries. You only have one battery to charge (I do mine every two weeks) but with SRAM you have to the two small coin cell batteries in the hoods and the two more for shifting and it's those I have the issue with. They are not very robust and I have broken three (the small locating lug at the bottom) it's made from some sort of plastic and breaks quite easily and they are not cheap to replace. However, I do find the SRAM shifting crisper and I like the left/right combo and that satisfying click when you change gear. Shimano for me but, only just.

AXS is just so good. So easy to setup and manage. Also, welcome to Utah!

Are you gonna be able to do a comparison with the new Allez Sprint? Would like to hear your thoughts on it versus the SL6 and SL7

I have AXS now on three bikes, 2 MTB and the new Crux. The same battery in the entire ecosystem is great. Easily interchangeable, quick to charge, easy to carry spares when needed, etc. I've had wired Di2 in the past, and while the shifting was awesome, the battery setup and charging was kind of a pain - comparatively. I think Sram knocked it out of the park.

Is the next Slam Red model coming out any time soon?

The only point I would disagree with is that I think the SRAM system looks significantly better than the Shimano system. But as they say beauty Is in the eyes of the beholder

I am also sold on SRAM for the very same reasons! Quality and price!

After riding Campagnolo groupset, I can’t go with any other. The thumb shifters are game changing

I rode Shimano Di2 for at least 7-8 years Dura-Ace and a mix of Dura Ace and GRX on my Gravel setup. Last year I looked at moving to AXS to get a bigger top gear on my Open UPPER which is limited on Ring sizes.I read a lot of BS about how Shimano is hands down better, Blah Blah Blah and AXS shifting performance is pour. I'm so happy I made the switch on all my bikes. The range is better on the low and top end. No issues with shifting, SRAM also wins on maintenance and with their app performance. Battery performance is amazing. There is a reason why you are seeing it more and more on the road. It's no hassles and it just works.

I have DI2 but honestly would prefer SRAM because the shifting is much easier with gloves on then Di2 buttons

I’m moving towards Sram axs Force from Ultegra di2 having to hook up to laptop to update is just a pain. Currently have axs force on my CX bike and love it.

would be nice to factor in too cost of replacement parts and frequency of servicing esp of brakes. that is a big point to shimano's favor as replacement parts are cheaper consistently and sram isn't quite as fit and forget as shimano

One thing that always bugs me about SRAM (in general not just E-shifting) is they don't make small parts and some OEM stuff as easily available (or at all) to the general public like Shimano does, and they don't support their products for anywhere near as long, I have old HydroR on my beater gravel bike and finding replacement hood covers last year was a PITA and they where expensive, meanwhile Shimano are still making hoods for Dura-Ace ST-7400 (the first STI leavers). Its more of a hassle than a problem but if you like to do your own wrenching and have a choice Shimano is the better bet. Oh yeah and DOT fluid, screw that stuff.

I agree...well said!

My Di2 bike had a cable unplugged during travel (most likely TSA inspection of bike case) and I had to tear the bike apart to find the culprit. Wasn’t fun in a hotel room with fewer tools in hand.

Once I changed my shimano to L/R configuration like Sram, there was no looking back, even L/R for front derailleur too (Sram's front derailleur shift sometimes you have to look down to check what ring you're on)

I've got di2 and what i like about it is controlling my edge device, using buttons in the hoods, can you do that too with AXS?

Shimano's battery is better. It's bigger so it holds more charge than both of the batteries from SRAM combined. Less time charging more time riding

Good review, thanks! You have more experience on both electronic groupsets than I do, but I will say that while I prefer SRAM's shifting functionality, in my experience, Shimano performs a little bit better in terms of shifting - especially front derailleur - so I'd give it to Shimano for that reason alone. Having said that, I'm a Campy guy, and prefer Campy across the range of these criteria, except maybe price. I was on Shimano a long time until I tried Campy, fell in love with the thumb shifters, switched, and never went back. Over a few groupsets with Campy, I have always preferred the shifting functionality, the aesthetics and the hood shape to a big enough degree over the others that I can't go back. I do have to give it to SRAM for the beauty of the shifting concept, but they still need to improve the execution. If you get on with the thumb shifters, Campy is glorious. Also not paid, also raced, won some races on the amateur level, all on Campy. Ride on man. Always love another review of gruppo that I am unfortunately not likely to ever ride for a long period of time. I can't get that many high-end bikes in the stable. Next bike will just be Campy again.

Agreed 100%. I've got AXS Force and GRX mechanical. AXS doesn't miss a beat and I get well over 60hours of riding between charges. Better gearing options and range too. Where Shimano does win hands down is in the braking and ergonomics. Both Good. I'm in the SRAM camp 100% now Shimano have pulled support from Hammerhead.

I was thinking how the batteries clipping system works in the winter when it's minus degree celsius? Although I don't like in the shimano that I can't take the battery in

I don't have it yet! Still in planning phase. Definitely committed to these new Shimano components

I am considering a SRAM Rival 1x11 mechanical groupset, because i work for an online bike parts shop and get a discount, there is nothing else available at the moment. I would combine a 50 chainring with an 11-32 or 11-36 cassette, stupid idea? I ride almost exclusively on the flat and need just something to complete my bike built.

I can't really see the CR2032 shifter batteries being a consideration when assessing overall usability. I've been using two SRAM Red eTap 2x11spd groupsets between two bikes for five years or so and ridden about 10 000km/6 000ml on yearly average combined between the two. One groupset is on a road bike and the other is a TT setup. As far as I can remember, I have replaced the shifter batteries (one at each lever and blipbox) once during this five year period. Maybe just lucky with better than average coin cells?

I have 2 new 12s MTB builds: 1 XTR & 1 XX1. There is no doubt that the Shimano groupset shifts better, in all scenarios. That being said, I will build my gravel frame with the just released 12s GRX mechanical group. No batteries or apps needed, either! 😃

You can charge di2 ride 4 times a week and not charge for 4 months. Plus di2 just shifts so much faster

"smash the like, bruh" my words sooo smug, i'm just anticipating...

I used di2 ultegra for more thn 4000km.. Just bought my first sram grouppo today..the rival axs.. Hope all goes well

Just the way I like my videos, with good content and the music way, way, way in the background.

I largely agree. If you buy a spare battery with SRAM AXS you never really have to worry about having a dead bike as you can just rotate them. Its a lot easier to live with. The ergonomics are great, setup is easy, AXS web is actually pretty nice, and there are firmware updates that have made my setup work better over time (imagine that!). Rival AXS is also alone at its pricepoint... However, I also have spent way to much time resetting up my front derailleurs after shops didn't do it properly. AXS doesn't throw chains or shift noticeably slower at the front if its properly set up. SRAM offers detailed video instructions and includes a tool with new FDs but its different than Shimano and Campagnolo and that seems to throw a lot of shops off. Second however, SRAM also has pretty restrictive guidelines for what cassettes and chainrings can be used depending on the frame's design (chainstay length and angle of chainstay to seat tube) most people and shops (again) seem unaware of this and that some (usually smaller) frames might be at the line of working (or not) with certain combinations of large cassettes and small chainrings. Shimano road groups don't run into these limitations because of their more traditional chainring and cassette choices. Third however, I personally dislike SRAMs choice of 13t front jumps. Works great if you are racing (see the traditional 53/39 or the new Shimano 54/40) but is range restrictive for even for competitive amateurs who wont be swapping cassettes and chainrings for every event and race.

about battery, Etap (11 speed) and AXS (12 Speed) are compatible.

Agreed!

If you are like me, my house has more than enough charging devices for my phones, tablet, watch, laptop.... don't need no more charging stations, thank you

hyperglide + from 9200 series alone is enough to make shimano win without any debate

Having to charge multiple batteries, change out coin cells makes SRAM a no-go for me. I charge my Di2 once every 6 months (and it's still not even close to empty. Being someone who rides about 12000km per year I don't want to be worrying about dead batteries every week.

Shimano seems to be evolving toward the SRAM configuration. The new electronic Shimano groupsets have batteries in the shifters and transmit shift commands wirelessly similar to SRAM, but the derailleurs are still wired to a common battery.

Question - How does the SRAM shifting compare to Shimano R8000 Mechanical 11Speed that I am riding now? Feel & Sound

For me Shimano Di2, 11 speed & 12 speed, shifts better, shift faster battery last longer, hoods are better, performance wise it's better, well yeah it's more expensive for a reason... The battery swapping you point out is negligeable even for Someone that rides a lot, the 12 speed battery you charge it twice or three times a year that's it... Now Etap is like charging your phone every night or charging your whoop every few days...

Sounds like its the electronics that sells you on Sram. Could agree with that. But mechanical, Shimano

The value sets are all of them they all work, they all shift.

Sram 10-28T 12-speed cassette is my favorite - eight gears with one cog jump😊

Both are premiere grupps so only riding them can give you the feel of which performs best.......

Is the Sram 50/37 chainring fast enough to cruise against the Shimano 53/39?

That roubaix.. sheeesh. How about a Roubaix vs. Aethos content.

I like my shifting system to shift well. Shimano for the win.

Sram Rival AXS is an awesome option and if weight is an issue, switch out the crankset for red for force weight

Not sure that was a selling point. It lost on look and performance so I might pay a little more for that. I have Dura-Ace Di2 on one of my bikes and SRAM Red AXS on another. You're right they both perform well but they're just different. I like and prefer things about both but I think Shimano wins in performance. The shifting is smoother and faster and I like the semi and auto shift modes as well. Good talking point. Thanks.

There is a mistake regarding the low-power battery management for SRAM vs. Shimano. With Shimano when the power gets too low, the system automatically disables the front derailleur and enables the rear derailleur to keep shifting. With Sram you have to manually swap the batteries. So there is a clear advantage here for Shimano. Concerning the price, I disagree with this youtuber. In France for the same group level (Red/Dura Ace etc), SRAM is systematically more expensive than Shimano. The EUR/USD exchange rate may be partly responsible for this difference with the US. Anyway, saying that SRAM is less expensive than Shimano is incorrect. I think everybody will agree that these are two very good brands but on balance, as I do not have to install the groups myself, which would give an advantage to SRAM, I much prefer Shimano because of the outstanding reliability of their products (superior to SRAM based on my 30-year experience) and a lower price.

For me, Shimano has a clean look, battery lasts a lot of time and gives you warning way ahead of being depleted and no noise that sram are known for. The sram power meters are way better as the ones from Shimano have lots of problems. And respect for sram as they continue to make parts available despite the pandemic.

How long does it take for a battery to be at full charge?

I find the SRAM iPhone app to be frustrating to use and difficult to connect the bike to. Love the technology and SRAM, but do find the connectivity very frustrating!

Charging every couple of weeks or months??? I put 11,000 miles on my Campy Record EPS last year and only charged it once, in July.

You have to press both shifters simultaneously for the front?..I've had di2 for years and its so intuitive and without thought..having to press 2 buttons for a front shift is just weird.

All about SRAM. Have on all my bikes and is just works and makes sense!

Agree

got sram, switched from shimano. Shimano updating some software is kinda bad and in my experience the shifting speed is same

Oy, my man, as long as SRAM chains are slower than Shimano, by several Watts, SRAM can never be the top groupset.

Sram shifter batteries are rated for around 209 hours and the axs derailleur batters stout 50 to 60 hours.

Probably SRAM due to full wirelessness hence easier to to do a frame swap. However Shimano for shifter ergonomics in the hand although I think the last SRAM iteration has closed the gap significantly.

What team are you riding with in Utah? I know folks in most

Maybe you should try Campagnolo EPS?

What about 1200 km ride with 12.000 leveling? Who win?

Di2 setup is a hassle, too much cabling works. Sram is plug and play.

For crit use, sram mechanical or shimano di2. sram mechanical is the most friendly in the crit in terms of mech groupset. Brake lever doesn't move and positive feedback from the shifter. Di2 is just lightning fast but crashing is common theme in crits so having such an expensive groupset can weightweenie your wallet.

Interestingly you can just program the Shimano shifters to function similarly to SRAM

Hello. Please mind what you sayin, if your battery DIES but you can recharge it then you prabably you can it DIED but i reincarnate it

I am keep hearing about the horrible Sram front derailleur for road bike which the chain constantly falls off. I will transfer over to Sram in a heartbeat if this issue is resolved.