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Stainless Brake Parts on a Mini Lathe - IT'S POSSIBLE

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Speed and Engineering

Speed and Engineering

Күн бұрын

I had to make a brake slide pin and a brake piston since those parts are no longer available to buy for a 1978 Suzuki GS550E. They are made out of stainless steel on my mini lathe, it was very challanging!
Link to the video of the internal lathe tool and threading ring: • Internal THREADING and...

Пікірлер: 115
@artisanmakes
@artisanmakes Жыл бұрын
Good stuff. Don't stress too much about it being the right way to rebuild a mini lathe spindle, we've all been there. Amazing how much it improves the way that it cuts.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks 👍 Agreed, big quality improvement!
@wizrom3046
@wizrom3046 Жыл бұрын
Ambitious project! Well done. 👍 I cut 304 stainless on my minilathe all the time. The first thing I did was throw away all my insert tooling. Well, put it away in a box I never use lol. Then hand grind HSS cutting tools which are very sharp, and have a reasonably high rake angle. These cut the stainless with much lower deflection force. It is still NOT fast on a minilathe because you need to take small depth cuts, but it cuts really nice and you can get a nice finish and no chatter etc. And no tool costs because you can just re sharpen them. To cut your square sided grooves; i never use a parting tool for this. I have a HSS tool sharpened to an acute (pointy) angle about 40 degrees. I just use that as a turning operation back and forth to get some depth, then rotate the tool post and cut the square sides of the groove. That way there is no chatter and you can control the exact depth of cut and also the exact placement of each side (perfectnwidth and position of the groove etc). Basically you "sculpt" out the groove in 4 operations; rough depth, side1, side2, tweak the depth until perfect. That way of working is fairly quick and gives you a lot of options for weird projects.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much! That’s a very intresting way of cutting the grooves, I would have never thought of that. Have to try it! 👍
@1crazypj
@1crazypj Жыл бұрын
LOL, I think thats the general consensus with min lathe, forget about standard carbide inserts and use HSS. It's what I trained with and still use almost exclusively.
@davers1610
@davers1610 Жыл бұрын
I ran the same lathe for a couple of years on stainless. I found that carbide aluminium inserts gave me excellent finishes. Great work.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks! Ye, I’ve been looking into trying those! Do they work well as a general insert for other steels too?
@davers1610
@davers1610 Жыл бұрын
@@speedandengineering I've found that they work very well on hard materials, I used them exclusively on my small lathe. I now have a largo lathe with a 250mm chuck. I almost exclusively use them still.
@2lefThumbs
@2lefThumbs Жыл бұрын
I second this tip, these sharp and shiny inserts give great finishes on hot or cold rolled mild steel as well as atainless on my puny lathe too👍
@teropiispala2576
@teropiispala2576 Жыл бұрын
I was going to suggest the same but others were before me. They'll cut really well because they are sharp, but don't brake the chip. You can't expect that on mini lathe. The benefit compared to sharp hss is the ability to crank the rpm into max. Then you get the most out of your limited power and rigidity. On best case they last surpricingly long but with stainless, you can expect chipping in cutting edge. You could also try 35 degree finishing insert for stainless steels. They are pretty sharp too but stronger and designed to cut stainless. I have a bigger lathe and I prefer them over aluminium inserts.
@Gorhamn5
@Gorhamn5 Жыл бұрын
Razor sharp tools are your friend on a machine like this in order to reduce cutting pressure. Ground and honed HSS, polished aluminum inserts, or honed carbide. Nice work making it happen with the tools you’ve got!
@wizrom3046
@wizrom3046 Жыл бұрын
Agreed! I made a similar comment above. He got a nice result here but the process was un-nerving... 😖👍
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, thanks guys! 👍
@guywihn1658
@guywihn1658 Жыл бұрын
Yes, hand sharpened carbide or high speed steel will just stainless no problem on that little lathe
@habiks
@habiks Жыл бұрын
Use HSS tools for tough materials on minilathe..
@leslieaustin151
@leslieaustin151 Жыл бұрын
Agree. It’s worked for me on my Peatol (Taig) lathe and on my Myford ML7, and gives a much better finish than small carbide insert tools. Les
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, its probably a really good tip!
@vincei4252
@vincei4252 Жыл бұрын
Watching you struggle with that hacksaw then with the stainless on that lathe made me want to cry. 4 years later I'm still recovering psychologically from experience of boring a stainless cylinder on my medium sizes lathe for the mirror holder on a custom telescope. The worst part was knowing that the part was deflecting away from the tool this precluding any attempts to do large passes. Nice job as you never gave up and you didn't surrender.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Yee, the pain is real my man!
@Airtight215
@Airtight215 Жыл бұрын
I was about to comment, “you need a solid tool post” right as you started making it. Don’t get lazy and keep it aluminum. I did the same exact thing, and just switched it from aluminum to 12L14 steel. The difference is just as night and day as from the compound to aluminum solid post. It’s amazing how much flex was actually in my aluminum tool post, and I’d never know if I would’ve just left it. You won’t regret remaking it. Especially if you want to cut 304 again.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks mate, I appreciate the insight! Will for sure remake it if I get hold of some appropriate material.
@Michel-Uphoff
@Michel-Uphoff Жыл бұрын
Love your humor! 🙂
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you! 😀
@orangetruckman
@orangetruckman Жыл бұрын
You have a strong character! 💪🏻 great video
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks alot!
@BasementEngineer
@BasementEngineer Жыл бұрын
While type 304 stainless steel has great corrosion resistance, it requires really sharp tools for successful & accurate machining. Rigid machinery doesn't hurt, either. For ease of machining I'd choose type 303 stainless steel. This is a very free machining stainless steel alloy with good corrosion resistance, too. I made all the ball handles for my Quorn T & C grinder from this steel, and it was a joy to use. Both of the above named steels are not very good in moving / sliding applications because of the galling properties of this alloy. For movable parts I'd use type 17-4 PH stainless steel. This steel is heat treatable for great strength and hardness making it wear resistant in moving applications. The heat treatment can be done after final machining because it is carried out at quite moderate temperatures such as 900 deg. F. Only a very slight discoloration occurs during this heat treatment. One last thought: All stainless steels are machined at much slower speed than say low carbon steels. Low carbon steels are typically machined at a cutting speed of 80 feet per minute, whereas stainless steels are machined at 60 feet per minute or less. On light machines I'd try 40 to 50 feet per minute and use high speed steel cutting tools with 15 deg. rake angles. It is a mistake to use tungsten carbide tooling on light weight machine tools. Learn to grind HSS tools and save a pile of money and aggravation. There are some excellent videos here on YT demonstrating this process. Try it you'll like it:-))
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks man, lots of good info! 👍 I’ve real trouble finding more specialized metals. I generally can only find the most common alloys. Sharper tooling is for sure something I will look into.
@BasementEngineer
@BasementEngineer Жыл бұрын
@@speedandengineering Talk to fabricators and machine shops that make deck machinery for ships and floating oil platforms. Also people making stuff for hydro-electric power plants. 17-4 PH stainless steel is used in those industries because of its superior strength and wear properties. You might also talk to people who overhaul or scrap outboard motors. I once obtained a length of 17-4 PH from the vertical drive shaft of one such beasts. Another alloy used in those businesses is aluminum bronze. It is also wear resistant but exceedingly tough to machine. I don't know how this would behave with brake fluid. Testing would need to be done to ensure compatibility. Provided your lathe has no spindle play and slide ways in good condition, you should have little difficulty in machining these "exotics". Lower the cutting speed to 30 feet per minute if necessary plus HSS tools with 15 -16 deg. top rake should do the trick. If you believe that that the lathe bed could stand reinforcing, obtain a piece of 2" x 8" hollow structural section tube of appropriate length. Drill through holes for mounting of the lathe, and weld/braze through bushings into those holes. Weld/braze covers over the ends of this tube. Find a friend or a shop that will machine tops of these bushings co-planar for mounting the lathe. This can be done by hand filing too if one is patient. With this addition you will have a really stiff lathe bed that you can attach to the top of a wooden bench.
@carlroy1865
@carlroy1865 Жыл бұрын
Right on, there is no such thing as a discontinued part.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
That's right! :D
@waynethomson3852
@waynethomson3852 Жыл бұрын
Well done mate! Using what you have both in brainpower and tooling will always overcome any problem. And the humour wasn't too bad either.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks man, means alot!
@craigtate5930
@craigtate5930 Жыл бұрын
Fantastic build
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks man!
@terrylembke8100
@terrylembke8100 Жыл бұрын
Was doing a job , my other lathe was down . I cut a steel bushing 3. In long 2.5 in. in Dia. 1.5 inch bore all with my little mini lathe . Had to let it cool offseveral times . But like a timex watch, Takes a lickin keeps on ticken . Nice save on that old bike . Better than the new ones .
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Hehe ye, it just takes som patience for sure!
@TechGorilla1987
@TechGorilla1987 Жыл бұрын
This content is very well done for a channel with only 454 subs. Well done, mate. Great work all the way around!
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you, appriciate it! :)
@stjimtemyth995
@stjimtemyth995 Жыл бұрын
for budget bandsaw a portaband or portable bandsaw is genrally the cheapest way to go (and the blade size is common among most brands) most people eventually make a stand for them. thanks for the lessons on stainless
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you, it seems like a good option indeed! 👍
@RedDogForge
@RedDogForge Жыл бұрын
​@@speedandengineering im not sure where your located but here in the states harbor freight sells a Bauer branded one fairly cheap, that said buy a tube of replacement roller guide bearings and swap em asap.
@PatrickPease
@PatrickPease Жыл бұрын
The silence of that first cut of the thread was soo intense, perfect time for a jump scare
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, life gets real out in the garage! 😁
@gianlucatomasello9492
@gianlucatomasello9492 6 ай бұрын
Nice work. To make the threaded pin I would have (and had previously and succesfully) started from a correct size grub screw and turned away all the unused material.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering 5 ай бұрын
Thanks! Ye, that would have saved me some turning. Will have to stock-up on my grub screws :)
@AndreTozoni
@AndreTozoni Жыл бұрын
For stainless steel I recommend using lard as a lubricant, it improves a lot.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you, I'll make a note of that!
@dermotkelly2971
@dermotkelly2971 Жыл бұрын
Great job and well done
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@jimsvideos7201
@jimsvideos7201 Жыл бұрын
Well done!
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks! 🙏
@michaelallen1432
@michaelallen1432 Жыл бұрын
All you need to do to put a hex socket in the end is to bore and thread the end a tiny bit undersized. Then heat the the part, and put the set screw on the end of a impact driver. Freeze it in dry ice. Then drive it in. It will never come out. Another way would be to cut threads with a taper and then cut the threads down on a set screw with a matching taper. The put it in with an impact driver.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Yea, it would have been better for sure
@BrunodeSouzaLino
@BrunodeSouzaLino Жыл бұрын
It's usually better to go with high speed steel tools when cutting harder materials, as those mini lathes can't reach the high speeds carbide tooling requires, especially when facing. You also want tools with as positive of a rake as possible, as those mini lathes don't have enough torque to push a neutral or negative rake tool properly.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, alot of other knowledgable people has recommended this too. I will look into it for sure, thank you!
@paulypaulypauly8011
@paulypaulypauly8011 Жыл бұрын
Good job!
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks buddy!
@kentuckytrapper780
@kentuckytrapper780 Жыл бұрын
TNGG inserts works great on stainless..or any steel really, great video..
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the tip and the feedback!🙏
@middleway1885
@middleway1885 Жыл бұрын
Howdy! Great job! A time counter would be sweet, if it is not too much work... Cheers!!
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks brother! It’s hard to implement a timer after the fact. But I will keep it in mind for upcoming videos, thanks for the feedback. It took alot of time: small machine, beginner, pause for upgrades to the lathe & had to start over a few times. 2-3 weekends + a few hours after work now and then.
@user-qy9rg3nt2l
@user-qy9rg3nt2l Жыл бұрын
Like another poster, I've always had better luck machining stainless with hand ground HSS cutters. I used to do quite a bit of stainless turning on my little Sherline lathe making spear gun parts and accessories.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, thanks alot, I’ve got many good tips in the comment of this video.
@conservative-proud
@conservative-proud Жыл бұрын
I had to make a brake piston the other day for an old RG500… it turned out perfect made from 316…
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
RG500, the two-stroke? -That’s a sick bike! Had the small version RG125 for a while, as a learner bike for my girl.
@conservative-proud
@conservative-proud Жыл бұрын
@@speedandengineering yeah, that’s the one… unfortunately it’s not mine but a customer bike…
@chrisstephens6673
@chrisstephens6673 Жыл бұрын
Well done considering the handicap of your equipment. If I may suggest a couple of things, when using abrasive tape it is best to pull up not push down. If the tape breaks pushing you will crash into the moving parts, but if you pull up and it breaks you move away from the lathe. A small thing but like using a spanner on car wheel nuts you pull up so you don't crash into the ground when it slips. Second, when hacksawing one hand is on the handle and provides forward motion and other hand is at the front to provide cutting pressure.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks! Good tips 👍
@rjordans
@rjordans Жыл бұрын
If you're turning a taper you may have a twist in the lathe bed. You can get that out if you bolt it down to something sturdy and carefully put some shims underneath one of the feet. That should help in pulling it straight. Use a test piece to check for taper or a known piece of straight bar with an indicator. The only downside is that this will probably make the lathe a lot less mobile but you'll gain in accuracy for it
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, I should do that for sure! I think that the lathe is so lightweight that it will turn a taper anyway when machineing tougher materials, but maybe not :)
@wizrom3046
@wizrom3046 Жыл бұрын
@@speedandengineering ... not if you use really sharp HSS cutting tools that have low deflection force. The problems with rigidity and taper, chatter etc all stem from using insert tooling that requires a high deflection force to take a cut. 🙂
@bmalovic
@bmalovic Жыл бұрын
@@speedandengineering I have exactly same lathe for more then 20 years. Tweaked a bit (tappered roller bearings, scraped surfaces, different pulies/toothed belt, modified cros and compound screws, dials...) As many people said before, aluminium inserts are your best friends. And yes, they work excelenet with any other material (steel, brass, bronze, aluminium of course...)
@mcanderson0
@mcanderson0 Жыл бұрын
Thers some great drill bits on amazon... M42 grade, brand name is Stroton. Not the M35, get the M42. They are very affordable and are phenomenal quality (M42 has high hot-hardness, high resistance to wear, basically an enhanced M35).
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I managed to find a set on swedish amazon, they had steps kinda like a step drill at the end of the flutes, it that the right ones? I will for sure consider them! 👍
@GaisaSanktejo
@GaisaSanktejo Жыл бұрын
Hmmm... while saving the hex was clever, I'm not particularly fond of using glue. I would have cut some grooves on the hex insert and made it an interference/compression fit. Then I would have heated the stainless part enough to get some expansion, then tried to press the insert in. If that failed, I would have merely resorted to compression fitting that insert into the head of your fancy new bolt
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, it would have been better!👍 We’ll see if this holds up, can always re-do it if it fails.
@mikeheath6516
@mikeheath6516 Жыл бұрын
Well done, often people give up too easily. Does your tailstock not have adjustment to help you adjust out taper?
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks man! It does, but it’s not a very convinient adjustment to make on these lathes.
@petefletcher
@petefletcher Жыл бұрын
Bolt the lathe down to something rigid! No wonder it's chattering.
@bobweiram6321
@bobweiram6321 Жыл бұрын
The loctite will hold, but for how long, especially when exposed to heat? In this scenario, it might be worth reverse threading the hex plug.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye true, a reverse thread wouldn’t have been a bad idea! But we’ll see if/how long it lasts.
@LittleJuniataMC
@LittleJuniataMC Жыл бұрын
Great video, but I'm a machinist and that was hard to watch you struggle with that POS lathe. I hope you can upgrade in the near future because it seems like you know what your doing.
@stevecallachor
@stevecallachor Жыл бұрын
Oh!! To be able to speak from the lofty heights and describe some ones possession as a P O S. What arrogance!!! Stavros, schoolmate of Pete Agoras.
@LittleJuniataMC
@LittleJuniataMC Жыл бұрын
@@stevecallachor 😂 just being honest no hate intended
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Hey guys! Thanks, encuragement means alot coming from a professional 🙏 It is a POS, but it’s one I can afford and have space for :) still one of my absolute favorite possesions.
@plepgeat
@plepgeat Жыл бұрын
Brilliant work! How got will those bolts get? As I recall, Loctite breaks down under heat; you could lose adhesion, friction, and grip between the hexagonal insert and the body of the bolt after a lot of heat cycling. You could stake the inserts in place...
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Thanks! Ye I’ve thought about that too. According to the data loctite starts to degrade over at 150-180 deg C or so. Dot 4 fluid boils at 230 C dry and 155 C with some water. I think it would require alot of hard braking to significantly weaken it. Another good thing is that Stainless has low heat conductivity!
@johnharding2912
@johnharding2912 Жыл бұрын
Get ground finishing inserts, instead of moulded. These have much less tool pressure and you will have a much easier time in stainless (I have same machine with some significant mods)
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, sounds like a good tip 👍 thank you!
@Zt3v3
@Zt3v3 Жыл бұрын
Cool video, I think I would have chosen a different material to work with, but watching you struggle probably makes for better content :-)
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Haha ye, better for you atleast! 😁
@RedDogForge
@RedDogForge Жыл бұрын
​@@speedandengineering naw..ok maybe a lil... *grins*
@EnlightenedSavage
@EnlightenedSavage Жыл бұрын
If you made that plug a little bigger you could have gotten a much higher torque spec.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, it’s a compromise between the wall thickness in the material for the threaded part and surface area + leverage for the ”insert” 👍
@MF175mp
@MF175mp Жыл бұрын
If you need to do stainless turning often, buy a more rigid lathe or make it more rigid. The latter costs almost as much if you count anything for working hours but the end result will still be a chinese lathe.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, I know. It's very convinient space-wise though!
@satchelsieniewicz5824
@satchelsieniewicz5824 Жыл бұрын
so much perseverance in this video
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Hehe thanks 👍
@camillosteuss
@camillosteuss Жыл бұрын
you definitely shoulda used the interference fit approach... brakes get hot, if you arent driving like you are disabled, hell, even then... And loctite, unless its the proper high heat locking compound, will not prove a great idea over time... I woulda machined those to interfere, the receiving end would be heated to around 300 celsius, the plug part would be blasted with gas refill bottle of butane to chill it down to around -30 celsius in a few seconds and drop... once it sets, its gonna hold until the end of times floral incandescent porpoises... if you get my meaning... and that 4cm inox rod... yikes mate, that must have hurt by the end...
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
I agree, it would have been better. But I think the loctite stands a chance, if it fails I can always re-do it with an interference fit.
@1crazypj
@1crazypj Жыл бұрын
You would be much better off without a QCTP as it moves the tool too far away from the area where it's better supported. (lot of leverage when it's 75mm or more away from center of mounting) Also, HSS and a much lower rpm works better on mini lathe as you can have things sharp instead of radiused edges designed for much heavier cuts. Nice to see older GS550, I ran workshop at a Suzuki dealers when they were a current model. Biggest issue was rectifier regulator, fiting something more modern fixes a lot of electrical issues. I also built a big bore GS550 which was faster than the 'brand new' Honda VF750
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, that makes sense, it is fair bit of offset! It is very convinient though. Perhaps a solid tool post with some opposite offset is a good compromise, will think alittle bit on this! Big bore, is that 650? I think I’ve heard about this conversion. Mine is accually 500cc, a smaller bore to get below an insurance threashold for some countrys. Don’t tell anyone! 😁
@1crazypj
@1crazypj Жыл бұрын
@@speedandengineering It was a long time ago but think is was closer to 700cc (maybe 720?) I was running a Suzuki dealer workshop in Britain at the time and spent about 20 hrs on first intake port to get it right, then, copied it for the other 3. Don't remember doing as much to exhaust ports Germany had some weird TUV / type approval rules, (probably still does?) is that why your rebuilding original calipers?
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Aah, cool! Otherwise I’ve heard that a 650cc cylinder head from another model suzuki fits this engine too. I’m from Sweden, it’s not the main reason. You’ll have to limit the scope somewhere, for the sake of time and money. Restoring the original brakes is simpler than fitting a more modern system :)
@AS-ug2vq
@AS-ug2vq Жыл бұрын
What size 4 jaw chuck is that?
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
It’s a 125mm (5”). It’s really too big for this type of lathe, wish I bought a 100mm (4”) instead.
@philt214
@philt214 Жыл бұрын
If you had been using a lathe that was more up to the task I am sure this would have been somewhat easier to accomplish. So, that was not possible, Why not use material that would have been much easier to turn such as 12L14 or 1117. It would allow you to make a part that would worked. If it did last as long at least you could make a replacement without the trouble of using 304.
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Ye, some cold rolled probably would have worked well with a good polish for some corrosion resistance. I never used Stainless before so I want to try it for that reason as well. To see what i possibe to accomplish. Thanks!
@WayneCook306
@WayneCook306 Жыл бұрын
Great job I also have a mini lathe but do not have as much trouble with stainless as you did, also do not think the dome was all that important.
@stephenbrowy9825
@stephenbrowy9825 Жыл бұрын
E bay
@cdrive5757
@cdrive5757 Жыл бұрын
Your QCTP isn't helping you deal with stainless either. Wakodahatchee Chris
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Hey, Really, is it costing me some rigidity you think? 🤔
@TheShorterboy
@TheShorterboy Жыл бұрын
Get plunge EDM for the hex some Morlock dude on youtube has an EDM power supply for 500USD
@speedandengineering
@speedandengineering Жыл бұрын
Hum, sounds intresting. Have to check it out, thanks!
@jan6402
@jan6402 Жыл бұрын
Horrible lathe plus wrong inserts for this job
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