Exactly ! Later in the credits of Doctor Strange... Created by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. Stan was a piece of s....

Actually he mentioned saying Doctor Strange was Steve ditko's idea but then he stole the credit by saying he was inspired by Chandu The Magician

@@programmer4690 You're an antisemitic piece of

@@AliFareedMC And you're just a lie spreading arab

​@@programmer4690 You're an idiot

Thats why stan lee wrote the letter in which he states that steve ditko is the co-creator

He only wrote it to shut Steve up. That's why when the interviewer pushed him and asks do agree he co created it Stan wouldn't even just on the video at a super old age with millions of dollars and fans say "you know what it really was 50/50. I wrote the stories and ditko drew them. He draw something and I'd write off his idea, then I'd write an idea and he'd draw it. Spiderman wouldn't exist without me and him nor would the Marvel brand exist without all the artists that helped me 50/50, look at you Kirby". He never said that ever. To hear any interview he gave the company, that was going bankrupt under his writing, wouldn't be where it's at today without his writing. He was a narcissist, but just a kind one who loved the fans and the medium. Guess if people kept telling me I was the man and the other teammates were all gone I might let it go to my head too.

@@gorsching But knowing how the Marvel Method works, did Stan really write anything? Stan The Conman did not do any storylines, he let Ditko do the stories with his panels and he filled in the word balloons with words. The Marvel Method, as Stan himself admits in his book The Origin Of Marvel Comics. Also, it was Joe Simon who came up with the name Spiderman years before and Jack Kirby brought this up to Stan The Conman, Stan didn't even come up with the name! And in the last panel in Amazing Stories, the debute of Spiderman, Stan wrote the now famous line "With great power comes great responsibility" which he plagiarised from a speech Winston Churhill had made. Stan was a great editor, and some said a great boss as he gave his artists free creative range over their stories, but I call him Stan The Conman because he took credit for their work. Now if you want to call this 50/50 colaboration, so be it, I don't. However, Martin Goodman the publisher for then Marvel comics was even worse.

​​​@@wiseguymaybe How is taking a certain line from Winston Churchill's speech considered plagiarism? By that logic, Churchill plagiarized the "with great power" line from Voltaire, the one who first coined the phrase, and George Lucas plagiarized George W. Bush when he had Anakin say, "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy." Plus, just because Stan Lee didn't originally coined the name "Spider-Man" doesn't mean he plagiarized the name either, there are many examples of characters in a comic publisher that share the same name of another character from another comic publisher, plus the name "Spider-Man" wasn't used for "The Fly" character anyways.

@@SpFlash1523 You may have a point on the plagiarism I don't think anyone is going to get sued over that, my example is how unoriginal Stan is, as for the name of Spiderman, it was Jack Kirby that came to Stan with that name, but really let's get away from that old arguement, and talk about Marvels first family The Fantastic Four, where Stan tells a real whooper for years about how he was going to get out of comics and write meaningful stories. not just comics, and his wife told him that he should write stories he wants to tell in the comic stories, and what did he have to lose, he was going to quite anyway. Sooo came the Fantastic Four, according to Stan. Chris Tolworthy a writer who has studied Jack Kirby and knows his style well, believes, for good reason that Jack not only illustrate the FF but wrote the story and created the FF by himself. Why does he say that? Because of The Challengers Of The Unknow who Kirby had wrote and drew for DC comics. He says that the origin of the Challengers is the same to the FF's origin, to similiar and to much Kirby style, plus in issue 3 of The Challengers Of The Unknown Rocky. one of The Challengers is sent into space and comes back with super powers, being able to flame on, turn invisible, have super strength and grow large or small. This is long before FF. Plus Chis's dissecting of FF issue one, he sees the four character's personality of the early Challengers and of the FF to similiar. Even the first panel of the FF #1 is almost exact to a monster comic Kirby had done in the past. After Jack left to go work for Marvel. those characters of Challengers Of The Unknown became more 2 dimensional and the stories more boring so the comic faded out eveintually. But those early issues with Jack Kirby behind the stories are something you should look into, just in case you don't believe Chris Tolworthy. You should look into Chris's books they are very interesting. I doubt very much Stan was worried about writing more meaningful stories, as publisher Martin Goodman was about to stop publishing comics all together as they were doing poor in sale and concentrate on his men's magazine, which would have left Stan The Man in the cold and without a job. When Kirby returned there was a lot of excitement to have the old comic book pro back. The sales of the FF is what saved the comic book department, and it's amazing how Stan leaves that out of his stories of the origin of the FF. Never heard him say, "I saved Marvel Comics. "

Yeah, exactly! Finally found someone knowing the job Ditko did but not hating Stan Lee in the comments.

It's arguable that Lee was the writer and author. Ditko and even Kirby had input on the initial ideas on the character. However, all credit to Lee for scripting and refining. But much of this could have been avoided if Lee gave credit proactively instead of reactively.

I used to as well but most of my respect for his is gone same with Albert Einstein that guy was a well known plagiarist in his time

And if you read the old Ditko/Lee spider-man comics, Lee's writing was god awful. Ditko really carried.

Lee would basically give them a prompt and a concept for the character and then the artists would basically do everything then he would look over it after they were done and edit some lines. Dude was a scumbag for basically taking credit for sole creating it.

Stan hired his artists to make the characters he envisioned. It's no different than the Winklevoss Twins hiring Mark Zuckerberg to make their social network.

@@petermj1098 the twins got a settlement if I recall. Stan had an idea that others expanded. It was a collaboration effort. All involved deserved credit.

@@georgesalgado8783 Yes Stan is a co-creator with the other artists he worked with, I'm just tired of people hating on Stan like he stole all credit and didn't write the characters at all. Kirby and Ditko were hired for freelance. They always got credit but Marvel always had ownership of the characters. It was their mistake for not negotiating real ownserhip in the first place. Kirby and Ditko also had creative differences. Ditko was more interested in making Ayn Rand Objectivist characters. Kirby was more interested in making cosmic/God-related characters. Stan was interested in making humans with personal struggles while being superheroes.

@@petermj1098 oh don't get me wrong I adore Stan Lee. He was essential as were the rest. What you say about negotiating ownership is 100% true. It reminds me of what happened to Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster with Superman but publishing companies back then didn't budge on such things.

Kind of a Marxist viewpoint if you ask me.

My understanding is that Jack Kirby designed Spider-man's costume. Stan gave Jack the character first, and when Jack's drawings came back with the character looking too powerful Stan gave it to Steve instead so Spider-man would look more "everyman". You can find Jack's original drawing online.

Exactly! The worse part is that in the credits of Doctor Strange Stan Lee's name appears before Steve Ditko.😥

Stan lee fucked kids and stole credit and betrayed the real creators. He’s a lieing minipulating piece of fucking shit and I’m glad he’s burning in hell.

@@programmer4690​ in the abstract, Dr. Strange is a case where I could actually see the artist’s name come before the writer’s. But simply put this is print media and the convention is that the writer/editor is credited first. The Marvel Method was a frankly unprecedented form of storytelling, which I think Stan did his best to acknowledge through the variety of credit descriptors as the titles progressed, those were always changing, the first D.Strange was “Story: Stan Lee Art: Steve Ditko Lettering: Terry Szenics” Then for a few issues it was “Written by... Drawn by... Lettered by...” Then ‘drawn’ became ‘illustrated’ and with his seventh issue (Strange Tales #118, I happen to have my Omnibus on me😘), we begin the tradition of adding flourish to the credits: “Written by Magical Stan Lee Drawn by Mystical Steve Ditko Lettered by Mysterious S. Rosen.” Which soon becomes things like “Story conjured up by: Illustrated by the strange sorcery of: Lettered at midnight by: ...” “Though there be many writers, none but *Stan Lee* could have penned this tale! Though there be many artists, none but *Steve Ditko* could have drawn this tale! Though there be many letterers, none but *Artie Simek* was available when we needed him!” “Strange is this script by: Stan Lee! Awesome is this art by: Steve Ditko Lilting is this lettering by: S. Rosen!” “Written by Marvel’s own living legend, Stan Lee Illustrated by Marvel’s unsung genius, Steve Ditko Lettered by Marvel’s own beaming pixie, Artie Simek” Notice any patterns? The first two are hyped up (in the style of the Strange scripts) and then the third position is humorously denigrated for his doing relatively menial labor in this most creative of processes. You can tell it’s three guys made this comic each time, and it’s basically no secret how it’s done. Moreover you can feel it, you can recognize Lee’s hilariously articulate/overly direct/unmistakably verbose voice a mile away, Ditko’s art is absolutely untouched in my eyes, I could not possibly lavish enough praise on this man. He deserved statues, museums, ships named in his honor. But isn’t that obvious from reading it? Isn’t it clear that both creators had a hand on the wheel? But you get to a certain point in Strange where it doesn’t matter what synopsis Lee is giving Ditko if any, the “story” as it were rests in the visual dimension. At which point, when we meet Eternity, the credits finally introduce the keyword ‘plot,’ becoming “Written and Edited with amazing acumen by: *Stan Lee* Plotted and Illustrated with Artistic Aplomb by: *Steve Ditko* Lettered and bordered with Ruler and Pen by: Artie Simek” But even then it keeps changing, they are trying to describe or get right what the roles are here but like I said it’s new territory in printing. There weren’t credits of _any kind_ when Ditko was at Charlton! He had to scrawl his name in the corner! So isn’t it perfectly fair when his comic, the pincer duel with Dormammu, now reads “Script: Stan Lee Art: Steve Ditko Lettering: S. Rosen (What more could you ask for?)” Or the next even more aggressively favorable division in the very next issue “Dialogue and Captions: Stan Lee Plot and Artwork: Steve Ditko Lettering and More Lettering: Artie Simek” Lee begins to move out of the writer’s role “Eerily Edited by... Stan Lee Spookily Scripted by... Dennis O’Neil Demonically Drawn by... Steve Ditko Laconically Lettered by... Artie Simek” And for _The End-- At Last!_ you get your wish, he’s ahead of the scriptor, but alas, not the editor... “Edited by the Enchanter-- Stan Lee Penciled & Inked by the Prestidigitator-- Steve Ditko Scripted by the Sorcerer-- Dennis O’Neil Lettered by the Letterer-- Artie Simek” This has been a presentation of the changes in authorship-credit format at Marvel from 1963-1966. I hope I have shown the spirit with which Lee and Ditko _split and shared_ credit for the ongoing creation of Doctor Strange. They tried to get across to the readers who was responsible for what, and I think they succeeded wonderfully. Stan Lee, that is-as it was him who *wrote* the credits after all, wasn’t it? 😏

The idea of Spider-Man came from Kirby. He pitched the idea to Stan Lee. Even Steve Ditko confirmed that.

@@followthewhiterabbit2549 But that does not make him the sole “creator” of Spider-Man. Co-creator definitely but not “The creator”. If you go around saying you’re the creator of something then people will assume you did 100% of the job bringing that idea into existence and you overshadow other’s people’s work, such as Steve Ditko’s.

@@redzO9 I'm making a reference of what you said...if Stan Lee says, "the person who came up with the idea first is the creator" if that were the case then Jack Kirby is the creator of Spider-Man because he had the idea first.

@@followthewhiterabbit2549 Sorry, I misread.

And can be said about Doctor strange, where it was did go that pitched the idea of Doctor strange. Stan only just adjusted the name from Mr strange to doctor

Stan Lee having the idea of Spider-Man is very debatable. Evidence points to another man.... Jack Kirby.

Ditko became poor for a lot more reasons than just not getting enough credit for spider-man. It was a lot of his OWN decisions that lead to that. He began hating people in general and had no contacts or friends, and quit marvel by himself. We can't even know the date of his death because no one notice until DAYS after it happened. His poverty is solely his fault considering the talent he had and the jobs he could've accepted.

​@jokx4409 exactly. Ditko quit and published some comics on his own which werent big hits. He also purposefully hid his identity

@@jokx4409 He had a lot of contact with his immediate family. But this information didn't come out until after his death when his relatives revealed this to the public.

Remember it was all a team effort, the ideas shared, dialogue, the art and then the execution from all sides shared.

Really took me aback to see him drop the nice old man persona and act a bit more aggressive.

@@dericmederos1514 same here.

Apparently even Stan was embarrassed of Bob Kane. When the two went out for dinner, he would always get embarrassed when Bob went out of his way to tell everyone in the room that he created Batman.

@@Eviyl it was only when Bob when Bob told everyone he created Batman and offered the waiters an illustration that Stan was embarrassed by Bob. Outside of that the two were great friends, Bob took stan on limousine rides to see the Batman movies, and Stan was saddened by the fact that Bob didn't live long enough to do the same for Bob with the Spider-Man movies.

@@Eviyl liars of a feather flock together

So many things have come and gone through the years, these characters could have easily died out if there weren’t new people revitalising them constantly especially in recent years, it is past comic writers and artists now and much bigger than it ever was due to people revitalising these characters. The people who created the characters shouldn’t just get royalties for a different product. That’s like saying I made and featured on a song on someone’s album so I should get royalties for every album they make now

Which is weird because Allen Moore actually fully knows this yet still gripes about it. Like he fully knows that Stan is doing the legally viable yet considerate thing and still goes "but he won't fully say it". People gotta let go of their hang ups

@@PrincessNine Of course not. Alan Moore doesn’t value the company image the way that somebody like Stan does. He’s an artist, not a businessman. He worked for the big publishers and they screwed him out of his work. Do you really expect him to respect Lee for toeing the line? Moore is interested in the moral dilemma. If you were to ask him, I have no doubt that he would acknowledge that there was a legal imperative for Stan to maintain the company’s official version of events. I also imagine he would consider it a cowardly justification for bending the truth. It’s ultimately a difference of worldview.

AND, Batman was a blatant ripoff of The Shadow.

He's choosing his words very wisely

@@pats3212 Because it would have legal repercussions

I think mangaka have solved this problem

No, different character with different powers....

"I still don't know whose idea was Spider-Man."-Steve Ditko.

@@PauloJrchannel Did he actually said that or was that taken out of context? Cause Jack drew a very early version for the character that wasn't named like that yet.

@@al112v4 Source: Strange and Stranger: The World of Steve Ditko (2008) Whether it was out of context or not, I can't tell.

​@@Venom96930 It was a spider themed kid that shot webs from a gun, it's essentially a proto Spiderman, Stan only allegedly came up with the sticking to walls part, and Ditko gave him the iconic aesthetic that made him popular

I always tell everyone. Look at Stan Lee before Kirby. Look at Stan Lee after Kirby. Now Look at Kirby before Stan Lee and Look at Kirby after Stan Lee. Steve Ditko wasn't a slouch either just the argument about who did what is even more tipped towards Kirby than what Ditko gets. It's just Stan Lee had a huge voice being the editor for yrs and when Kirby died Ditko stayed away. That left Lee being the only one to say what he did and no one could say no. And no one wanted to because he was an old man who was extremely charismatic and passionate about the comic book medium

Stan Lee had not the idea. The idea came from Jack Kirby. Not only that, Jack Kirby and Joe Simon created a similar character called "The Fly" for Archie Publications 3 years before Spider-Man was created. "The Fly" is the story of an orphan teen who lives with his uncles and transforms into a super heroe with the ability to walk up walls. The most shocking thing is Stan Lee always said that he came with the idea of Spider-Man when he saw a fly on the wall of his office..... Yeah right! It seems Stan saw "The Fly" of Jack Kirby in his office. 😄

@@followthewhiterabbit2549 Thanks for the information , here's something you may want to watch . kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ibplitp6q9WVhIE.html&ab_channel=NerdSync

@@bryandonahue5446 Thanks I watched the video and I already knew about the SpiderMan costume created by the company Ben Cooper. That proves that the Spider-Man name existed even before Spider-Man. Also..Did you know that ."The Fly" character that I mentioned created in 1959 by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby is a reworked idea of Silver Spider? "Silver Spider" is a concept created in 1954 by Captain America creator Joe Simon. The concept was rejected by the company Harvey Comics.⁸

@@followthewhiterabbit2549 No I didn't know these things , just stumbled on all this information recently . ( I have been aware of Bill Finger being basically ripped off for quite awhile ) Back to Spider- Man I think the Ben Cooper design is just too similar to be coincidence . The behind the scenes stories I been watching lately would make a good movie especially since we are being bombarded with comic book movies as of late . I'll be looking into ' The Fly " next . Thanks again for the info , you certainly know your stuff .

Stan did give credit though! Every single spider man movie, cartoon, etc has Steve Ditkos name on it.

A little bit prideful it's a masive understatement, almost as big as stan's ego

@@Y2M4444 Not even close

@@Y2M4444 atleast he's not in the level of Bob Kane, Which isn't really a compliment Now that I think about it🤣

He shows remorse over how the situation was handled while admitting he should have given Ditko a bit more credit than he did, even if he still considers himself the main creator. I think that's the best you can really ask for, and it's unrealistic to expect Stan to be some perfect embodiment of humanity. He still comes off as a nice, down-to-earth guy, that doesn't mean he's without flaws.

@@Y2M4444 never

Now he does, back then it wasn't the case.

@@georgeliquor1236 Yes it was

unlike bob kane

Ut he did haha what are you talking about?

@@joshuacaceres9960 please tell me, show me where he denies his involvement? Lol hes even credited with Lee during the movie intro lol, grow up lil kids 🤣

One of my friendships ended, partly because we worked on a project together. I reached out to him recently and we'll hopefully patch things up. It won't be the same, but at least there can be less animosity between us.

You're antisemitic

Yeah, every time I've tried to criticise stan fan boys get so angry, one even said to me that he's dead so I shouldn't criticise him... but how he handled most things was awful... I've even heard that the whole spider man thing damaged Steve Ditko's mental health as he got older

What's your source on this?

Uh.. you know it's still disputed about this day and Mark Ditko (Steve's nephew) has talked about it and how he believes both Jack and Steve helped with the visual creation?

Jack Kirby retreaded The Fly and mixed it with Captain Marvel/Shazam (boy becomes adult hero via magic). What Stan Lee came up with (a guilt-ridden teenager who only learns to take social responsibility for the potential of his power to do good or allow evil after a personal tragedy) bears no resemblance to Kirby's idea other than that the webs come from a device instead of being an inherent ability. And Ditko would never have come up with a hero with feet of clay, because he expressly hated those and believed someone was either all-good or all-evil, with no gray areas. He did come up with a more compelling visual design for Spider-Man, but he hated everything about Stan Lee's ideas for Peter Parker, which is why he quit doing Spider-Man related work.

@@FilmFire96 there are many works of history that were researched and published in various books, using eyewitness testimony from former marvel staffers, who were witnesses to these events. It was either in the Steranko works or The Comics Journal library if I had to guess where I read this.

Stan created Matt Murdock/Daredevil, Karen Page, Foggy Nelson, Wilson Fisk/Kingpin, Mary Jane Watson, Robbie Robertson, Sam Wilson/The Falcon, Purple Man, Hawkeye, Groot, She Hulk, Mar-Vell, Black Knight, without Kirby or Ditko. It seems people hating Stan simply because he isn’t a artist more than anything. Kirby’s sole creations more about god and cosmic beings as Ditko were more darker characters. When they worked with Stan they made human characters that were more upbeat. I really don’t how see Stan didn’t write the stories when they worked for him.

Stan doesn't get criticized for not being an artist, he gets criticized for overstating his contribution and acting like he is being magnanimous by allowing the artists a co-creator credit. You're right, Stan "created" all those other characters without Jack and Steve, he "created" them with other artists and they are clearly vastly inferior concepts compared with what he did with Jack and Steve, which reinforces my point. But you're right, Stan gave the characters their personalities through the dialog he wrote. That is definitely true. I would never say that Jack and Steve could've created the Marvel universe as we know it without Stan's involvement. it's a question of degrees. If you can't see how Stan didn't write those stories, I guess it depends on your definition of "writing". Stan has said himself that the way the books were done is he would have a plot meeting with the artist and together they'd hash out the main story points for the next issue, resulting in a few sentences worth of information. (I've seen interviews with artists who stated that these meetings sometimes consisted of Stan staring at them until they came up with a plot on their own) Then the artist would go back to his studio and work out how those few lines of notes from the meeting would become a story as they drew the pages. Then Stan would take those pages, and using the rough dialog provided by the artist as a guide, he would fill in the dialog. (Clearly improving it vastly if you compare with the dialog Jack and Steve wrote themselves later in their careers) This is why after the first few issues of Spider-Man, Ditko started receiving a credit for plotting (which he demanded Stan give him) and with the Fantastic Four you'll notice that there were no art/writing credits at all, it was just noted as having been created by Stan and Jack (which Jack agreed to after bristling at Stan giving himself a solo writing credit). Wally Wood famously quit working at Marvel specifically because he felt he was being ripped off by Stan due to Stan giving himself writing credit (and pay!) for stories that Wally had essentially written except for the final dialog.

@@stevewik2280 Yeah Zuckerberg programmed Facebook but he wouldn’t have programmed it without the Winklevoss Twins and Divya Narendra hiring him to make THEIR idea of a social network. Yeah Ditko and Kirby designed the characters but they wouldn’t have designed it without Stan hiring them to make HIS idea of for superheroes. It seems to me - for example, Stan basically told Ditko “I want to make a superhero who is a teen and dresses like a Spider. Make a design for him.” And Ditko would keep making draft after draft until we get the Spider-Man look Stan liked the most - which is the Spider-Man look we know today. Same goes with other characters he did with Ditko and Kirby. Obviously Kirby came up with Galactus’s iconic head and design but Stan is the one who told him to make a god-like planet eating villain in the first place inspiring him to make the look. Just because Stan didn’t exactly have every characters LOOKS in mind doesn’t mean he didn’t have their CHARACTER in mind. Him having their CHARACTER in mind from the start gives himself the right to be called a creator. Stan never stripped away Kirby’s and Ditko’s name as a creator unlike Bob Kane stripped Bill Finger’s name as a creator of Batman for years - which is literally taking credit for writing.

​@@petermj1098Exactly

Stan would have a better argument if he wrote out the script, but he didn't. Just by the nature of how these were created, it was a collaborative process and both can rightfully consider themselves creators of the character.

This was insightful. Ayn Rand did so much damage.

Ditko's ideology is so much embeded in materialism and capitalism that he shows greed and the want for profit as a huge flaw in his work. All I read here is someone not liking a man's idea and making it something it's not. Ditko was "pro industrial" even tho he clearly shows Jameson as Evil for the reason he doesn't hesitate to stomp on other people to get higher in his industry, hating Spider-Man because he shows him how wrong he was.

no difference they were both frauds who only bent to the anger of the people they screwed over

So you're saying Stan started the creation, and then Ditko finished the creation. So they both created it. So Stan isn't right.

@@TIMMUT17 yes, that's right. I'm just saying I understand what Stan Lee ment when he sometimes he said the person that has the idea is the real creator.

Without steve no one would give a fuck about spiderman, all of the other designs by other artists looked like shit

@@SuperSonicSquad you don't know that. Maybe it would, and even if it wasn't a success, does not change the fact that Stan Lee created it the character.

@@Luizanimado Yes, we do know that, because none of Stan Lee's other character came even close to Spider-Man's success.

Well he is Whoish what did you expect? They've been doing that for thousands of years.

And Marvel just announced a documentary on Stan Lee in Disney+. None of the fanfare for Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko

@@mikethaison432 what is a Whoish?

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

Stan Lee: Liar and traitor. 😂

In search of steve Ditko. Its excellent and here on you tube

In Search of Steve Ditko

@@bluenomadd Thanks!

No, Jack Kirby's idea for the Silverspider/Spiderman which Stan took to Steve Ditko who developed him.

You are totally WRONG! The idea came from Jack Kirby. He pitched the idea to Stan Lee.

@@followthewhiterabbit2549 no it didn’t Stan came up with The idea behind Spiderman and Steve Ditko helped him bring him to the comics

@@thegoddamnedbatman2138 You are WRONG ! Jack Kirby and Joe Simon created the character "The Fly" for Archie Comics 3 years before the creation of Spider-Man. "The Fly" is the story of an orphan teenager who lives with his uncles and with a magic ring he transforms into an adult super hero with the ability to walk up walls. Wait a minute, Stan Lee always said that he came with the idea of Spider-Man when he saw a fly on the wall of his office. Very weird isn't? Maybe he meant he saw "The Fly" in his office when Jack Kirby told him about the character that he created with Joe Simon 3 years before for Archie Comics.

@@followthewhiterabbit2549 that’s two totally different characters moron

Steve Ditko also wrote that comic. In fact there was a time when Ditko wrote alone the Spider-Man comics and Stan Lee only edited the dialogs.

i just saw the documentary and its brilliant

Both of them are dead, so we'll probably never know.

The question nowadays is, who is Spider-Man? I dig Miles Morales and a few of the other incarnations but, being on the south side of 40 years old, Peter Parker bit by a radioactive spider will always be Spider-Man to me. I understand Marvel is a business, owned by another business, owned by another business and profit is the order of the day but, let's take it easy on the overexposure of the "Spider-verse" pleeeease!!

@@jeff0247598 I agree

Damn both Js claiming the work of Ditko. I thought Kirby was one of the good ones too.

Ditko outright said he doesn’t believe in flawed heroes. Does Ditko know the entire reason Spider-Man is loved is because he is a flawed hero? Stan Lee is the reason Spider-Man was a flawed person with a flawed life. Ditko hates grey characters yet ironically writes Mr A who is essentially an anti hero. Ditko was tone deaf on writing.

@@petermj1098 How is Mr. A an Anti-Hero? I'm reading it and never he comes across as Anti-Hero, unless you feel yourself uncomfortable with the idea that you might be one of the "grey area" ones. Spider-Man's sucess wasn't his flaw, it was the idea that out of the common he became exceptionnal and grew as a person from a boy to a man, Lee wanted Spidey to keep being a "kid" (leading to all those status quo BS we got for decades afterward and the "clownification" of the character alltogether) while Ditko understood that shall you become a man, you cannot go back to a boy and call it an evolution, a choice must be made consciously.

Except that's all bullshit. Superman was the very first Superhero ever created, in 1938. It has always been credited as a co-creation between the writer and the artist, right from Action Comics #1 and on. So, the concept co-creation in the comic book medium did not _just_ come about in the 21st century.

@@AgentMorgan2010 Uhh… you do realize that Superman was not the first superhero in history right?

@@dandelion40k87 Uhh... you do realize you're just a pedantic little touch hole, right? But you are correct, of course. The Greek God Zeus was _actually_ the first superhero ever created! You're right about that, and I was technically wrong about Superman. And yet, nothing has changed. Because you do realize that whether or not you consider the pulp heroes that predate Superman -- such as The Phantom or The Shadow -- to be the very first superheroes ever created, it has nothing to do with the actual point I was making here at all anyway, right? Right. Superman _is_ the seminal character that kicked off the Golden Age of comics and the American superhero genre, and is the prototypical archetype that all the other subsequent superhero characters followed. Point is Superman predates Spider-Man, and his creation has always been acknowledged and credited as a co-creation. So, the concept of co-creation isn't something we _just_ came up with in the 21st century.

@@AgentMorgan2010 whatever mommy.

No this was filmed while ditko was still alive

Ditko did waaay more than just draw Spidey. He plotted the stories, too!!! Visual storytelling is a far greater skill and contribution to the comic book genre, than merely scripting dialogue on a typewriter after seeing the whole story drawn out on paper...

Jack kirby and Steve dikto too R.I.P.

@@russellmachan3861 Yeah rip them all

RIP a nasty fart on Stan Lee's grave

1. He May forgot about it, i mean he was an old guy... 2. He May based him on the character not get the idea itself, for example if i had an idea to make a super hero that can fly and then inspire my own character from him

He was old. Almost 100 of course he would forget some details.

The story came first in this case though. Ditko didn't draw up Spider-Man and Lee just wrote a story to it and called it his creation. He thought it up (like 'normal' authors of novels and such would do) and Ditko put it on a page. So your above mentioned logic does not quite apply here.

@@mrdewarion lmao stan had the idea of a teenage hero, Steve drew and created the illustration of Peter Parker or spiderman therefore its his, that's like me asking you to make me a pizza and then I go and take the credit when you're done making it. Stop riding his shaft

@@HunterMagunter Not riding anyone's shaft, just going with the information I have so far. I'm absolutely happy to educate myself and take more information into consideration. What I am opposed to though, is talking badly about dead men. All three of them are deceased and none of them, including Lee, did anything to deserve that.

@@mrdewarion he also didn't do anything extra to deserve all the praise and be spoken as like he's the God of all God's when you said it yourself it was a collaboration. Him being dead doesn't change that he was a fraud, in that regard I guess we can't talk about anyone after they're dead cuz that's just too rude to do even if it's factual lmao stay delirious Florian

@@HunterMagunter You do you. I just don't see anyone benefitting from it anymore. But if you're just in to prove a point, that's fair I guess. Again... I'm not against gaining more insight into the situation and I'll gladly reevaluate my position on this. I simply don't understand where the blatant hostility is coming from.

Cool stan we’ll always be my fav hero

@The Creature did that actually happen

So basically Stan screw them both

Stan lee was an asshole to those two guys... he should have gave them more credit, is just a scumbag way of doing things.. not that long ago i didint even know about Kirby and Ditko... is sad.

​@AV Spider-man movies are made by sony/marvel is the sony and the movie directors like Sam Raimi who gave credit to Steve Ditko, and not Stan lee.. how can you be so stupid? Stan Lee always took all the credit for himself, like he made it all, and what he was really doing is basically editing some text on comics..

Without Steve Ditko there wouldn't be a Spider-Man either.

@@sniperwolve False. There'd still be _a_ Spider-Man without Steve Ditko; he'd simply look different.

@SaintFort False. How much do you know about Steve Ditko? How much do you know about Spider-Man? Ditko wasn't just an artist, he was a writer too. He plotted the Spider-Man title by himself, with no input from Stan Lee, for almost the last half of their run, partly because Stan stopped talking to him when Ditko demanded writing credit. Up until that point they'd have story conferences where they'd flesh out the plot TOGETHER! He didn't just draw Spider-Man, nah, he was also deeply involved in building his mythology. Spider-Man wasn't created solely by Stan Lee, Steve Ditko or anyone else. Joe Simon originally conceptualized the idea for a character who would later become Spider-Man. Jack Kirby was involved in that process as well. Spider-Man wasn't created by any one person and came about through a collaborative effort that reshaped old ideas (Joe Simon's, Stan Lee's,) into entirely new ones (Steve Ditko). None of these characters would be who they are, who we know them to be, without the contributions of people like Steve Dikto, Joe Simon, Jack Kirby and others. Marvel wouldn't be the brand that it is without all of the stones that its legacy is built on. Stan Lee couldn't have accomplished it on his own. What good is an idea if you lack the imagination and creativity to bring it to fruition?! Lee needed the Marvel Method. To discount the importance of the role of Dikto, Kirby, etc in the creative process of these characters is criminal.

The idea for Spiderman was Jack Kirby's, the only aspect that was allegedly invented by Stan was the sticking to walls thing, the web shooting and the spider theme was Jack Kirby

@@SaintFort False. To say there would be a Spider-Man looking different makes it clear he wouldn't be Spider-Man anymore, because what he looks like defines, among other stuff, what he is. And the same can be said for all of those iconic characters. You CAN'T separate one from the other.

Ohhh please....Ditko was the one who gave Peter his personality, not Stan. Have you read amazing fantasy #15, Peter is a copy of Steve Ditko..

He doesnt even give the credit, he literally says "Steve THINKS he deserves credit" and "I'm WILLING TO accept Steve deserves credit", but when the reporter asks him to actually say it he doesn't, then doubles down with "I still think the one who came up with the idea is the creator", invalidating all the praise he just gave Steve Ditko 2 minutes ago

You realize that it was a combined effort from the two and secondly don't slander a dead man's name

@@henryemily375 Yes, I see. My bad. Stan’s part was his idea and suggestions. Thanks.

@@henryemily375 Postscript: IMHO, Steve Ditko’s true contribution was actually designing and drawing Spider-Man. See? So, please don’t get pushy.

@@paul329869 you realize that people had to discuss and agree on what Peter Parker would look like

The original idea for a spider themed superhero was made by Jack Kirby who pitched it to Stan Lee, by Stan's own logic the sole creator of Spiderman would then be Jack Kirby

Who do you think created the character? The guy who actually fought on the front lines in WWII or the cowards he hosted a radio show during the war?

In that case Jack Kirby and Joe Simon are the creators Jack Kirby pitched the idea to Stan Lee. Jack Kirby and Joe Simon created the character "The Fly" for Archie Comics 3 years before the creation of Spider-Man. "The Fly" is the story of an orphan teenager who lives with his uncles and with a magic ring he transforms into an adult super hero with the ability to walk up walls. Wait a minute, Stan Lee always said that he came with the idea of Spider-Man when he saw a fly on the wall of his office. Very weird isn't? Maybe Stan meant he saw "The Fly" in his office when Jack Kirby told him about the character that he created with Joe Simon 3 years before for Archie Comics. Oh by the way..the idea of "The Fly" came from "'Silver Spider" concept created by Joe Simon and rejected by Harvey Comics in 1954. 8 years before the creation of Spider-Man. And yes, Joe Simon is also the guy who created Captain America, Bucky and Red Skull before Stan Lee was known.

@@followthewhiterabbit2549with the revisionist history lol en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_(Archie_Comics) 1. The Fly was just an orphan he didn’t live with his relatives. 2. The Fly had a magic ring and his powers were based on sorcery, inheritance and myth. 3. Steve Ditko himself said that Stan came up with the basics of Spider-Man, which removes Stan from the equation and means that either Ditko or Kirby are lying… pick your poison. Also you should add that “Yes, Joe Simon is also a guy who had his own qualms about working with Jack Kirby”

@@jimmyvolakis5194 Wikipedia is your source? Lol 😂 Research more dude anyone can edit Wikipedia, anyone can put wrong, misleading or incomplete info. Resesrch more ! Stan Lee was the big liar !

@@followthewhiterabbit2549 Do you know how what footnotes are, or are you still stuck in the 2005 mentality of Wiki being not a credible source? I only wish you’d actually bother to follow your own words and do some research into Wikipedia? Anyways, nope the evidence is everywhere not just wiki… go email some of Stan and Kirby’s contemporaries and they’ll give you a good unbiased idea of the nature of both men and you can then make your decision ALL BY YOURSELF (yaaay!)

Except, Steve designed the costume. He plotted many of the early stories, he went into the specific problems Parker had in his personal life. At some point when there are a new artist and writers, there's a cutoff. Ditko laid the foundation ergo he's a co-creator.