Stanier's LMS Black 5 and the Last Days of Steam

Stanier's LMS Black 5 and the Last Days of Steam | Curator with a Camera

Рет қаралды 55,376

Күн бұрын

Anthony Coulls takes you on a tour of William Stanier’s ‘go-anywhere, do-anything’ mixed-traffic masterpiece, the London Midland and Scottish Railway's Black Five.
With 842 LMS Stanier Class 5 steam engines built and operating from the North of Scotland to the South of England, these stalwarts of steam were seen up and down the UK network from the 1930s until August 1968, when they hauled the very last steam services on British Railways.
This episode was filmed at Locomotion in Shildon. To find out more about Locomotion, visit www.locomotion.org.uk/
Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:23 Stanier and the formation of the LMS
2:11 Where it all begins
2:57 Headcodes
4:10 Front end and smokebox
4:28 Similarities with the Great Western Hall (4900 Class)
6:21 Ease of repair
7:10 Top speed
7:26 Exterior fittings
8:33 Inside the cab
9:18 Getting it moving
11:19 Vacuum brakes
12:10 Other fittings
13:34 In the firebox
17:27 Firing and maintenance
18:15 Legacy
19:26 Outro
Back Five Photo by Barry Lewis (1:56)
creativecommons.org/licenses/...

Пікірлер: 183

@NatRailwayMuseum 2 ай бұрын

We’re back! What do you want to see next?

@Its-kate56 2 ай бұрын

Boxhill please 🥺

@Midlandpullmanp 2 ай бұрын

Could you try other a4s like sir Nigel Greasly and bittern?.

@dutydruidfilms11 2 ай бұрын

737!

@DavidScholz-bu1ix 2 ай бұрын

AEROLITE!!!!!!!!!

@ThatScottishAtlantic57 2 ай бұрын

Lode Star

@moosifer3321 2 ай бұрын

My Dad was a Fireman on the LMS during WWII and always said the Black 5s were his favourite Locos. Crazy father joined the Royal Marines at War`s end, serving for 30plus yrs. He rarely spoke of his experiences apart from Bacon and Eggs cooked on his Coal Shovel (our Roast Chestnuts were prepared similarly!).

@jerrysgardentractorsengine2243 2 ай бұрын

As an American, this series is honestly so fun to watch. Being able to see the differences between our large, superpower designs such as our Lima Berkshires and the Big Boy to the more simplistic/austerity designs you folks have in England never fails to amaze

@TrevorMcGregger Ай бұрын

You Americans really did go overkill with those giant black steam trains chuffing thousands of miles while spewing out big black smoke I shall say

@LazyOldFusspot_3428 2 ай бұрын

As if we didn't know already, Henry from The Railway Series gets rebuilt from a technical failure and enigma to this remarkable, versatile and unstoppable utilitarian beast.

@keab42 2 ай бұрын

So glad this series is back.

@kenharris5390 2 ай бұрын

This a great example of the designer getting it just right. I'm glad you explained the absence of the brick arch, the earlier clip had me scratching my head. Great to see you back on the channel, I look forward to a lot more.

@BorderTerrier-yk2hw Ай бұрын

As a seventy five year old who used to explore the North East LNER system in the 50s, I have goosebumps, watching the developments taking place on our other great railway systems.

@Mike-kc8rl 2 ай бұрын

I guess the class 47 is the diesel equivalent of the black five? I remember getting a Hornby black five for Christmas in 1973 and had it for many years! That was a real work horse too!

@69waveydavey 2 ай бұрын

Hi from Lostock Hall (10D), Black fives matter.

@peterstowell2976 2 ай бұрын

G’day Anthony from Oz. My favourite Black Five is (4)4806 because it was built in my home town of Derby in 1944 when my Father was employed in the Loco Drawing Office and I was a little kid. When it was based at Llangollen Railway I spent some of my volunteer time assisting with the maintenance work also a bit of firing along the LR Line. As you know I now reside in Oz and spend five days a week volunteering on the Puffing Billy Railway near Melbourne. When visiting the UK I also visit the TR and NYMR; as you know 4806 is now based at Grosmont where on a couple of recent visits enjoyed a Cab Ride. I thoroughly enjoy your excellent video episodes, well done! Cheers, Puf’n-Pete

@anthonycoulls7301 Ай бұрын

Cheers Peter, always good to hear from you

@tonywright8294 2 ай бұрын

Built a 2 1/2 gauge live steam model . Only took 7 years ! A very handsome engine .

@ceanothus_bluemoon 2 ай бұрын

Love the Black Fives, and the detailed tour!

@DavidScholz-bu1ix 2 ай бұрын

DITTO!!!!!!!!!

@Harry_55 2 ай бұрын

Love the Black 5s

@1825Steam-vl9ob 2 ай бұрын

My granddaughter was in the cab last week, nice loco! she visits Locomotion at least once a week

@Roy-gi5ul Ай бұрын

Always fully explained for the layman, but also sufficiently technical for more enlightened types. Well done!

@anthonycoulls7301 Ай бұрын

Thanks for that, I do try!

@stevef9530 2 ай бұрын

Great job of showing off the beautiful Black 5, I managed to get to see several one afternoon at Bletchley in 1967, along with the 8fs and so on. They were the heart and soul of British railways to the end. I’m building one in 4mm/foot!

@leightonolsson4846 28 күн бұрын

I loved how there were so many they could mess about with them, like trying out Caprotti valve gear and outside Stephenson valve gear.

@lesleyhirst3422 2 ай бұрын

Oh wow... thank you -my favourite locos of all time . (45212 and me go back a long way....) I used to walk from home down to Edge Hill with my younger brother; the guys were quite happy to talk to us as long as we stood in the safe public places, and they'd explain what we were looking at. They were a bit surprised to see a girl there, (this was around 1957) but although I was the one who was dragged there, I was the one who ended up getting hooked. We saw Black 5s, 8fs, 9fs, lots more; my ambition now is to take my grandkids on the Jacobite - if they get it running again this year - they don't understand my fanaticism, but they're happy to humour Grandma. Thanks for the explanation of the cut off, BTW, I've never understood it before.

@garryferrington811 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for a new episode. I've been fascinated by the design of British engines since I was young many decades ago. You can see a sort of "family resemblance" between them, the blower Bentley, and the Spitfire.

@tbrooke3016 2 ай бұрын

If definitely trim these down to shorts to get people in the door as well! I love the long form video and it deserves more views!

@alanhindmarch4483 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Anthony for another Great Video.

@anthonycoulls7301 2 ай бұрын

You're welcome Alan, we always have a lot of fun doing these

@roygardiner2229 2 ай бұрын

Terrific! I shall have to watch it again. I really liked your use of a car's mechanisms as metaphors. Looking at the film footage of both manufacturing, operating and maintaining the steam engines made me wonder if such skills would be easily recreated in modern Blighty. I think perhaps not.

@johnjephcote7636 13 күн бұрын

I remember reading about Stanier replacing the brick arch overnight in the USA on Coronation with water in the boiler and the firebox still very warm.

@damianlittle3367 2 ай бұрын

Very nice tour. My father fired 5's, 8's and Garrett's on the LMS. He sure had some interesting stories.

@borderlands6606 Ай бұрын

When the former Great Central route fell under Midland auspices in 1958, there was considerable resistance to the Black 5, with drivers preferring the similar 4-6-0 B1. How much of this was company loyalty and familiarity, and what was practical advantage is hard to say.

@johnjephcote7636 14 күн бұрын

After all my house moves across the country since the 1960s, I still have my Cl.5 chimney in the garden. I bought it from Cohens on the old Loddington branch near Wellingborough for £3.10.0 (£3.50). The RCTS Railway Observer could only give the numbers of a few Cl.5s that were delivered at that time, so I don't know its exact number.

@midshipsjsr 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video. I remember seeing 5000 at the Severn Valley Railway as a child.

@stephendavies6949 2 ай бұрын

Yes, an excellent series, well presented. Why not review a classic example of each of the Big 4's plus a couple of BR Standard locos in your collection, but avoiding the likes of FS, Green Arrow, Mallard, Duchess etc?

@sglenny001 2 ай бұрын

He's done the Mallard before

@mateusz_paulus 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for another great video!

@bassman411 2 ай бұрын

Great to see this series back!!

@SaturnCanuck 2 ай бұрын

That was great. I always learn something on these videos. Looking forward to the next one.

@daystatesniper01 2 ай бұрын

Another cracking video in this series , thank you .

@Retirement_Life 2 ай бұрын

Excellent video 👏👏👏

@unclezebulon 2 ай бұрын

Great to see you back! It’s an impressive loco, and it was very interesting to hear you explain the controls and to get an unobstructed view of the interior of the firebox.

@Soupdragon1964 2 ай бұрын

Excellent, thanks very much.

@thesudricmerman3318 2 ай бұрын

i do love the black 5 my local nymr has two 45428 and 44806

@DavidScholz-bu1ix 2 ай бұрын

Speaking of 448O6 scientifically, that L M S class 5MT black five steam-driven 4-6-O type of steam-driven railway tender locomotive certainly was basically featured in my own official DVD titled the Best of World Steam alongside 454O7 alongside 45231 over in the Great Britain section narrated by Peter Fairhead himself respectfully.

@HowardLeVert 2 ай бұрын

Interesting and informative video, especially as it named components within the firebox itself. Thank you.

@ragarse3 2 ай бұрын

Great workhorse simply and beautifully explained, thanks

@bh.boilers 2 ай бұрын

Great videos, being here in Australia, it is excellent to have the curator with a camera to allow me a detailed look at your locomotives. Ray.

@NatRailwayMuseum 2 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoy them! Thanks for watching, we've got an exciting year of videos ahead

@stevekelly5166 2 ай бұрын

Nice to see you back. The map at 0m47s, well so many changes. PAD/RDG/BRI missing? Bath to Templecombe still there. Fun stuff after 43 years of railway work, and now back to the Black 5 and your enthusiastic knowledge. Collett I once worked in Room 37 of Collett House in Bristol during the good times. The George Jackson Churchwood naming has to be the strangest nameplate on a class 47. (47079) in the 70's when I was a mere trainspotter. 225 psi. Atmosphere or Bar? About 15.5 Bar/15.3Atm A little bit of pressure there.

@DarikFromBaku1989 2 ай бұрын

Very educative video, as usual from the NRM. Thank you very much! I had an enormous intellectual and aesthetic pleasure. Please, continue with this important work. If possible, please, observe British locomotives which were designed/built for use on foreign railways.

@levelcrossing150 2 ай бұрын

Great looking engines, I loved the later Caprotti versions.

@forrestrobin2712 2 ай бұрын

Love a Black Five!

@beckyduncan4861 2 ай бұрын

Did you know that this is Henry in real life from Thomas & Friends?

@neiloflongbeck5705 2 ай бұрын

Only after being sent to Crewe after his accident with The Flying Kipper.

@DavidScholz-bu1ix 2 ай бұрын

@@neiloflongbeck5705INDEED!!!

@DavidScholz-bu1ix 2 ай бұрын

@@neiloflongbeck5705MY OWN OFFICIALLY OFFICIAL COMPLETELY THOUGHTFULLY THOUGHTFUL THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!!!!

@cjstrader8171 2 ай бұрын

Who doesn't?

@stewartellinson8846 2 ай бұрын

if people want to learn to fire a steam locomotive, they can watch this LMS training film "little and often" - some clips were used in this video, but it gives a nice insight into what the LMS expected of it's firemen. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fJp6ZdqUqbaXiXU.html

@williamkennedy5492 2 ай бұрын

An amazing video , sometimes i park in the asda carpark Crewe and stop and think of what Crewe Works achieved, this black 5 is but one example. Crewe works must have been an enormous factory !

@derekgibson7037 2 ай бұрын

Most enjoyable.

@Dellboy56 2 ай бұрын

The Black 5 is by far my favourite loco. I have ten ‘oo gauge models running on my railway layout.

@richardswiderski4985 2 ай бұрын

Great insight into a lovely engine Black 5's are lovely engines. Could you do a look into the DP1 please.

@EMEME27655 2 ай бұрын

The black five is my favourite engine❤

@brucelamberton8819 2 ай бұрын

If you could only have one class of steam locomotive, it would be the Black 5.

@arthurrytis6010 2 ай бұрын

That driver we first saw looks very much like a Marylebone driver in the early 60 s we used to call him countdown.

@michaelmiller641 2 ай бұрын

I remember seeing them lined up at Marylebone station! And being chased by one near harrow on the hill station, me in an A 60 metropolitan train!

@Backwardlooking 2 ай бұрын

Watched those in the 1960’s around Lancaster and Yorkshire.

@richardswiderski4985 2 ай бұрын

Black 5 one of my favourite engines...What next?? Let me think..

@joshslater2426 2 ай бұрын

Hopefully the 5000 cab demonstrations will set a trend so that we’ll be able to stand in the cabs of other locomotives in the National Collection. At Shildon alone there’s Hardwicke, NER M1 No. 1621, the Super D and Winston Churchill. I’d love to stand in their cabs.

@amansgrangard6208 17 күн бұрын

William stanier : your spécial mixed-trafic (he say to the black 5) you can pull coaches and freight trucks kind easy.

@shartbimpson 2 ай бұрын

can anyone tell me the origin of the b&w mainline footplate footage? I had it on a VHS when I was a kid, would love to see it again in full

@robgingervikingjohnson7031 2 ай бұрын

Will 5000 ever steam again ? It lovely to see static locos but they are living breathing fire needs the rails to run

@howardrisby9621 2 ай бұрын

I sometimes wonder how many /subclass variants the Black 5s would have occupied, had they been LNER locos? Of course, the "Red5's" were Stanier's Jubilee class. If the Black 5s were equated with the GW "Hall" class, with what (if any) Swindon design would the "Jubes" draw comparison?

@PaulPower4 2 ай бұрын

Apparently (according to the Handbook of Classic British Steam Locomotives) a combination of the chassis of the LMS's existing Patriot class and parts of the Black 5. Which initially caused problems, as the 3-cylinder layout that the Jubilee inherited from the Patriot didn't combine well with the Swindon-influenced infrastructure up top. It took increasing the number of superheater elements to fix it.

@saddler501 2 ай бұрын

After retirement in 1967. What was 5000’s journey. Was it saved from Barry or did it go straight into the national collection?

@chrisoddy8744 2 ай бұрын

At a guess, straight into the NC as it's the "original" member of the class

@jacksnorth4074 Ай бұрын

One question I have is, is this the hall we are seeing in this video a public one? On my most recent trip to the museum I was excited to see the black 5, only for just the great hall and the North shed to be open, (Not a criticism or that it lessened our enjoyment for one minute) just wondering if we missed something? 😅

@NatRailwayMuseum Ай бұрын

This episode was filmed at Locomotion in Shildon, well worth a visit, especially with New Hall opening next month

@summer_stanier 2 ай бұрын

SINCE WHEN DID YOU GUYS GET A BLACK 5 IN THE COLLECTION, welp. ik where i need to go again eventually

@NatRailwayMuseum 2 ай бұрын

Just make sure you go to Shildon and not York. :) 5000 has been a much-admired exhibit at Locomotion in Shildon for more than 10 years.

@summer_stanier 2 ай бұрын

@@NatRailwayMuseum that'll be why i dont recall seeing her, as ive only ever been to york

@davidellis1355 2 ай бұрын

Have you ever done Evening Star ?

@NatRailwayMuseum 2 ай бұрын

No, but we want to!

@theotherside8258 2 ай бұрын

so how many are left?

@BrakeCoach_ 2 ай бұрын

Where exactly was this area? When I was there last week, I only saw Scotsman and the entrance area with Mallard, Duchess of Hamilton, Copperknob, Sterling Single No1 and others

@NatRailwayMuseum 2 ай бұрын

This was filmed at Locomotion in Shildon, see the video description for details

@BrakeCoach_ 2 ай бұрын

@@NatRailwayMuseum Thank you

@AinscoughProductions 2 ай бұрын

Theres only one thing better than a Black 5... its 2 Black 5's

@harrisonnightingale6600 2 ай бұрын

Every time you said Stanier I keep hearing scania, though that's probably because I have been watching videos on scania but dam they almost sound the same.

@neiloflongbeck5705 2 ай бұрын

Withdrawn from Lostock Hall in 1967 and presented to the National Collection.

@lioncurlew 2 ай бұрын

What a Warehouse! Stephenson’s “Rocket” in the background.

@caroleast9636 2 ай бұрын

Well it is our National Museum ✔️🚂🇬🇧

@thetrainman2013 2 ай бұрын

Old metro car from the Tyne and Wear metro

@Micheal_Jackson_Official 2 ай бұрын

No way it’s Henry lolz

@user-nd4zx3ik5c 2 ай бұрын

I want to see cr 812 z

@michelacastelli4767 2 ай бұрын

The Black 5 looks just like Henry from Thomas and friends

@voidjavelin23 8 күн бұрын

because henry IS infact a stanier black 5

@michelacastelli4767 2 ай бұрын

Is the island of sodor real ?

@user-ml1lf9wg4r 2 ай бұрын

Henry's thomas and friends

@nikerailfanningttm9046 2 ай бұрын

We’re missing a few fish vans I see.

@lukemendel8197 2 ай бұрын

And Stanier somehow rebuilt a knockoff Gresley into a Black 5. As a Favour. For Sir Topham Hatt.

@LazyOldFusspot_3428 2 ай бұрын

Now Henry is as unstoppable as ever and bursting forth like the champion he really is.

@robrice7246 2 ай бұрын

There's just one real problem: They whistle way too much.

@massrootsnwr7067 2 ай бұрын

Hope it does not rain

@bob-sb2zu 2 ай бұрын

Navvies engines !

@waverleyjournalise5757 2 ай бұрын

Whilst this wheel arragement is always going to appear unbalanced, no better looking 4-6-0 was made. Black 5s are probably the epitome of form follows function.

@drexcitement9579 2 ай бұрын

I hope the NRM does a video on the GWR halls Hey what if when they show it they show the hogwarts express ;)

@gainsbourg66 2 ай бұрын

This is re-writing history. The term 'Black 5' was almost never used until well after steam was removed from BR. If you check the literature, magazines and photographs pre 1968, you will find absolutely no mention of the term, anywhere. The loco was referred to as a Stanier Class Five, or simply a 'Class 5'. I challenge the curator, or anyone at the museum to find the term 'Black 5' used in pre-1968 literature, or a single photo caption.

@wetcardie66 2 ай бұрын

the nickname for these engines locally (rose grove) was "mickey" as far as i remember...........

@garyfox1898 2 ай бұрын

We used to call them Blackies

@AndrewMcLean-gu6wq 2 ай бұрын

Challenge accepted! There are lots of references to "Black Fives" pre 1968. The Times obituary for Sir William Stanier published on 28 September 1965 is but one example. Here is an excerpt: "A prolific designer, Stanier produced a memorable mixed traffic engine...known familiarly as "Black Staniers" or "Black Fives"..."

@robertcross1441 2 ай бұрын

I was a train spotter late 50s and early 60 we always called them black 5s.

@modemdog3649 2 ай бұрын

Aw hell nah they Americanized the LMS 💀

@misterhat5823 2 ай бұрын

Premieres blow. Thumbs down.

@kleedhamhobby 2 ай бұрын

"Went to make it up" - yes. "Went up to make it" - no.

@anthonycoulls7301 2 ай бұрын

Forgive my occasional poor spoken language, I don't always get it right, I am human after all

@gainsbourg66 2 ай бұрын

Dreadful building, grey, minimal and sterile. Could easily have been made to look like something from the steam era - say a typical locomotive shed or works. Such an opportunity wasted. In fact, every revamp of the NRM creates a dead atmosphere which is ever further removed from the original York shed - whereas it could be a great experience. Also, I'm afraid the commentary reflects the dull, lifeless exhibit. It is full of historical inaccuracy. The locomotive was known as a Stanier Class 5, or 'Class 5'. The nickname 'Black 5' only came into common usage during the post - steam era.

@NatRailwayMuseum 2 ай бұрын

We try to include useful info in the description, including filming location (Locomotion in Shildon for this episode) and an overview of the loco including its official name. Hope you stick with us as there are some great stories in the pipeline :)

@anthonycoulls7301 2 ай бұрын

Please tell me of my inaccuracies. I'm always interested to learn

@NatRailwayMuseum 2 ай бұрын

Just to clear up the usage of the "Black 5" name: from the 1958 Ladybird Book of British Railway Locomotives to the Times obituary of Sir William Stanier in 1965-and indeed the newspaper reports of the final steam operations of August 1968-the term "Black 5" was in common usage on the railways and amongst enthusiasts.

@stewartellinson8846 2 ай бұрын

You've already been picked up on the "Black five" comment - now you're moaning about the building. it's there to highlight the locos and enthuse people who aren't elderly moaners. Knock it off, please.

@gainsbourg66 2 ай бұрын

@@NatRailwayMuseum As I say, the term was almost never used until 1968. It may have appeared in a children's book but there is no mention of the term 'Black 5' anywhere in the railway literature, books, magazines, and photos. There are literally thousands of photos in hundreds of books depicting Stanier Class 5's. Show me even one in this genre that refers to the loco as a 'Black 5'. I would be surprised if you could find 1% doing so, or even ONE caption using the term pre. 1968. Yes, these days you will find almost 50% of the railway press using the nickname, but this amounts to a confabulation of the past which, seeing as you are a curator of a railway museum and now making historical videos, I thought you should be made aware of. It's a bit like making out that Argentians were refered to as 'Argies' by the general public during the Falklands War in 1982. Yes, the Daily Mirror and the Sun kept using the term but in reality, almost no one used the term at the time.