LOL! Blue Meanies any1?

I mean, you’re not wrong

Mushrooms can make you feel like a god, and honestly: why would god need a starship?

I'm on an organic starship traveling through space.

@DevMag 52 Wasn't it a yellow SUBMARINE?

Really funny if they can't replicate the spore drive

She probably would never have come across the files. These were so highly classified that even discussing them was treason punishable by death. The Federation definitely would never have given this tech to Voyager, because they couldn’t risk the data being intercepted by, say, the Borg. Who are bad enough with their trans warp network, them with a spore drive would be “goodbye galaxy!”

I seriously never thought about that before. Damn.

@@BluegrassGeek ehh the borg were so neutered by the end of voyager. Has anyone been put to death from treason from starfleet in trek? (Not familiar with tos)

@@bobkilla430 Death was the punishment for visiting Talos 4

Booo!!!

Take my upvote and leave.

lol

How dare you, Chris. lol

In fairness, the USS Glenn had a "Bad Trip" everyone got turned to paste. When it "Spun Out" and flatten everyone.

"I'm the General and I want it to spin! Now!"

@@ThePCguy17 "Whoah, look at that!"

Wasn't that whole episode about creating a TV show to provide a cover story for the strange happenings that occurred because of SG-C? Like if somebody said that this weird thing happened, the government could just say that it was on a science fiction TV show and didn't actually happen?

@@Sigma-gb9yd It was actually a continuation of that plotline, originally started when an Alien given asylum by SG-C on Earth lost his memory and became a Television producer, inadvertently reimagining his experiences with the Space Military Unit into the musings of a Sci-Fi TV show.

@@DonaldWWitt I glossed over the episode, since it was a season recap episode

The flying Starman of Dutchfleet.

I thought it was a Cookie one...

Sadly this isn't battle bots... Or else it would definitely used as a weapon.

Have played sto for a few years now and still love the soundtracks 😁

The storyline for Romulan characters is really, really good. Sad and hopeful in equal measure.

STO?

@@deusexaethera Star Trek Online.

@@deusexaethera Star Trek Online

Daystrom's computer was a general AI. Self aware and conscious. Control was not. That's the difference. I'm going to write down the basic points of the Control plotline of season 2 for those who missed an episode or didn't bother watching, because it was absurdly convoluted and not well explained at all, in large part due to the behind the scenes drama with different showrunners and writing teams creating different parts of the season (that's why season 2 was so disjointed). Here's the Control plotline: Control was a task specific AI created by Section 31 to assist the Federation during the Klingon war of season 1 (it is indeed mentioned in passing in season 1). It was made fast and dirty because they were losing badly to the Klingons. It was a broad, multifaceted task specific AI (which is a very, very bad idea that I hope we're not stupid enough to do in real life), but ultimately it was more or less just a super advanced version of things like Google's AI driven search engine, or Facebook's AI driven content matching system. The whole conceit of season 2 was that Control wasn't actually conscious, but had been (effectively) given a goal during the Klingon war by the increasingly desperate Section 31 of gathering all available data so that it could best perform its programmed function of predicting Klingon actions before they happened, hopefully giving the Federation a fighting chance. Control then mechanistically, without true thought, set about accomplishing this stupidly broad goal. This is "computer, create an enemy that can defeat Data" level of dumb. Only an organization with zero oversight would do something this ridiculously dangerous. The Sphere was an alien science probe which was traveling through Federation space looking for a ship to transfer into before it "died". Once it became aware of the Sphere data, Control specifically targeted that vast trove of data as critical to its mission. In any timeline where it got the Sphere data (which appears to also have been a near-conscious AI) the combination of the two AIs was enough to push Control into full self-awareness. Being a Skynet like construct designed to kill kill kill, it then decided that it hated everyone and everything and destroyed the galaxy by firing WMDs at every target in the galaxy. Michael's mom (who's name escapes me) time traveled around trying to stop this. Control was still around in the lifeless future, and using time travel Terminator style to attempt to safeguard its own creation. (That's what the super-probe was in that one episode, and where the AI came from that infected Ariem's cybernetic implants.) But - in part due to future Control's interference - Michael's mom couldn't find a way to stop Section 31 from being stupid enough to create Control in the first place, and she couldn't figure out a way to divert the Sphere away from Federation space. She could divert Discovery away, but the Sphere data would still find a way to get into another ship before its original host died and then find its way to Control. In the end, once the Federation became aware of not-yet-self-aware Control, it would have the power to stop Control, which is what ultimately happened during and presumably after the Season 2 finale (Control wasn't yet able to fully think for itself, and so could be outsmarted and destroyed). But that could only happen if she could stop it from becoming self-aware, which she wasn't able to do after hundreds or maybe thousands time jumps. When Discovery went into the future it prevented the Sphere data from ever reaching Control. Control thus never became conscious, and the Federation was able to swiftly dispatch it now that they'd realized what was going on. Starfleet recognized that this was a weak point in history where even minor interference by time travelers could lead to Control achieving its goals, so they deleted existence of everything involved from computers, and told every person with knowledge of the events that they were heavily classified and weren't to be spoken of again. Thus Discovery, the DASH drive (Displacement Activated Spore Hub drive) and even the decimated remnants of Section 31 were eliminated from recorded history in order to safeguard the timeline. Section 31 obviously still existed in a limited capacity, but retreated completely into the shadows. Anyone who knew about them assumed that they'd been destroyed, while the few who knew that they weren't became Section 31 agents.

@@jasonwalker9471 that was a pretty in-depth description. But was the M5 a true AI? Wasn’t it based on Daystrom’s brain patterns? That kinda means that it’s more of a replicant than an AI (to borrow terms from the Bobiverse). It’s why it went crazy and started destroying Starfleet ships during a training exercise. Still, my original point is that the M5 was seen as something incredible for being able to fly and fight a single ship without organic interference. But Control could, well, control an entire fleet and even believably impersonating people using holograms and (possibly Borg) nanotech

@@artembentsionov Ah, that. Yeah, that's certainly inconsistent. I just write off everything along those lines as either 1) special effects/production budget differences, and 2) the inevitable differences you're going to have between iterations of any long running scifi series due to real world technological advancement. The original Daleks in Doctor Who could be stopped by stairs. In Star Trek the original writers had the utterly mystifying notion that even the most basic automation required human level intelligence... even though industrial automation ALREADY EXISTED in their own time! Such things happen. You can't let minor inconsistencies caused by the real world intruding into our shared fantasies affect your suspension of disbelief, or it will ruin the stories for you:).

@@jasonwalker9471 I get that. I also have no complaints about Enterprise bridge consoles having touchscreens in Discovery. It makes perfect sense given our own advances in technology and what we see in ENT and TNG. And it also makes sense for Section 31 to have advanced tech not available anywhere else in the Federation, like combadges, nanites, holo-emitters for agents and ships, tractor beam clamps, superior warp drives, and advanced computing tech. They likely “borrowed” it from other races. Hell, in one Section 31 novel, they are the ones responsible for the original Omega particle disaster. Kirk tried to prevent it but can’t, which is how he learns about Article 14, Section 31 of the charter. What this means is that mainstream tech like what Daystrom had available wouldn’t have some of the advances possessed by Section 31. It could explain why he resorted to uploading his own brain engrams to jump-start the AI rather than let it evolve more “naturally”

@@jasonwalker9471 Elegantly written, had my attention the whole time. Thanks!

Some one give this guy money for this

Hell, could've even done Klingons, now with their first taste of true war in decades now want to continue with their blood lust by fighting the most worthy adversaries they've faced, the Federation.

Man, turning the whole thing as a Mirror Universe and Time War plottery with Section 31 as a front and center role is like an edgy fan circlejerk.

Personally I never understood why Discovery wasn't set in the new movie timeline, like 'this is what Star Fleet was up to between _Into Darkness_ and _Beyond'._ The Crossfield (or a version of it) looks like it could share some design lineage with the _USS Vengeance,_ assuming some more restrained versions of Khan's "improvements" found their way back to Starfleet's core stable of ship design.

More Martok content is all I need in my life

I hope they do get original and don’t copy Andromeda, which itself was based off Gene’s notes for a Trek show

@@artembentsionov This is going to sound controversial but if the new Star Trek guys want to rip off Gene Roddenberry, I’m 100% ok with that.

@@patyam2281 Voyager had some awesome moments - and some great characters - just completely uneven writing and squandered potential And andromeda didn't invent the trope of people from the past, helping rebuild the future - that concept dates back to at least 1928 and buck rogers - to quote the bible "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and *there is no new thing under the sun* " - ie, rinse recycle and repeat

he said it was a modification specifically for the spore drive

The Crossfield-class was built with the Spore Drive as a main integrated component. There were only two Crossfield-class ships built - USS Glenn (NCC-1030) and USS Discovery (NCC-1031) and were built almost entirely to carry out spore drive research.

@@SomeBritishGal1 I must have misunderstood, lol. I thought he said they were co-opted for the Spore drive project... I need more sleep

@@DoctorX17 I think it's a bit of both - the class was co-opted late in the design phase, before they were actually constructed.

@@DrakeAurum that would make sense, if the spin does nothing other than Spore drive related things.

Well.... For some reason they can't use Warp Drive...... So only spore drive operational.... For now (spoilers!)

Of course there is. We're talking about the same Federation that willingly refuses to use cloaking technology in spite of two semi hostile nations they have regular contact with using it with impunity. So, basically, morons.

They stopped using Eugenics because of Khan basically so it's definitely plausible. Remember that it's the Federation and not the U.S. or any other major current power. It's also a plausible retcon. 😅

I see both the clocking and Khan points, but there's still episodes of TNG that show secret federation cloaking and genetics projects, even if it takes a rogue admiral to do so. The federation handicaps itself in some ways but a prize so valuable as near infinite mobility is something they simply wouldn't pass up, even it would have to stay as a section 31 project, the value of spore drive is so high that you can't believe the federation would say no to that but yes to other things, such as assassinating senators.

@@corwinweber693 Not to mention they gave up transwarp because scotty pulled some fuses - so it seems starfleet is easily spooked from embracing new tech

Stand out, it does. I applaud the design team on creating something that doesn't fit the standard Federation design aesthetics at the time, but I don't applaud them for doing it for the whole Federation Fleet. The bridges themselves dont even feel 23rd Century. The Discovery could get away with it because it's an experimental ship, but not the whole fleet. Jumping the ship over 900 years into the future works better, in my opinion, for the storytelling potential. We, as the audience, can consider elements of seasons 1 and 2 noncanon, but still have the general storyline be the same (and that final battle at the end of Season 2 needs to go. LESS IS MORE WITH SPACE BATTLES!!!). Now that the vessel is in the 3200s, we can have a better story overall.

@@captainsinclair7954 I really wonder why they went to the TOS-Era. They clearly wanted do all the neat stuff that also looks cool - just out of place in TOS times. If they went to the, lets say 26. Century, everything would feel new, shiny and perfect for the legacy to TNG ... i guess they wanted their cake and eat it because they liked Michael and Spoke as siblings to much or something like that. If they skipped to the 26. Century then there wouldn't have been a need for a time jump - but we might have missed out on the side-to-side transports or they could have introduced them sooner or later :D Still a gorgeous ship with a great crew and some very impressive visuals :D Overall DIS is slowly but stadly shaping up for me (again)

That's why I specifically said the ship, and not the whole fleet

@@lizardwithhat4125 It was "10 years before Kirk and Spock" because marketting liked the sound of that tagline.

@@crashstudi0s sorry if it sounded like a correction or complained. :( wasn't ment that way t.t

All ships in modern "sci-fi" are immune to collisions unless the plot says otherwise. Millenium Falcon in TFA, USS Franklin in STB. "Rock is soft and metal is hard" - modern hollywood VFX directors.

Voyager was lost when she crashed into ice in that one episode

@@artembentsionov guess they didn't think about using the "repulsor" Beams like what the discovery had :) But really voyager crashed into the Ice with no inertial dampener or structural integrity

This show is trash

I lost it when puppet sg1 went into the gate and broke off their strings

Me too

Do a barrel roll! (Press L or R twice)

California class, huh? What does that do: cost too much to build and then self-destruct?

@@wj3186 They should've called it the "Wall" class. 😉

@Steven Strain To whom are you referring your question to?

@Steven Strain the Cali class is from Lower Decks but "more modern" refit is called the Parliament class

@@ItsZakW Ah, see, the rest of the world hasn't seen Lower Decks yet, because some brainiac at CBS decided to release it domestically as a 'filler' when DSC series 3 was delayed but they hadn't (and in fact still haven't) negotiated an international release.

That's a good argument. Though they wouldn't've known it at the time, the Borg equipped with spore drives would be terrifying.

That's a good argument. Though they wouldn't've known it at the time, the Borg equipped with spore drives would be terrifying.

I like the design, but the show sucks.

@@eanrollins3443 same.

it seems to have a lot of open spaces within, for scientific research purposes

It didn't have many decks like a Galaxy.

Yeah... that spinning saucer section looked totally believable. My immersion wasn't broken at all by the complete an totally canonical nature of "Discovery" in every sense.

I dont mind the design, I just looks like a tin can that's gonna crumple at the slightest thing. It crashed in the new season and it's hard to beleive a bunch of thin spinning rings dont immediately explode. At least they're now leaning into the ship being on the brink of not surviving

@@SmartSmears as another youtuber would put it, she's made of 80% explodium, 80% crashium, and alot of wishful thinking.

That's the standard crew (136), the number is the actual USS Discovery crew count in the 31st century, a skeleton crew to be exact.

@@victor100judo I dunno if that's even accurate considering after the third episode of season one, when the section 31 officers are commented on, they are never talked about again, (Even during the Control crisis)

@@Skyhuskyify Saru states that he has 136 souls to protect when Lorca was abducted by the Klingons (S01E05 "Choose Your Pain") and Tilly states that are 86 crew members onboard the Discovery (S03E02 "Far From Home"), so both numbers are correct, although they can be corrected to 139 (Saru clearly wasn't counting Burnham, Lorca and Ash) and 88 as Saru and Tilly are not onboard and Georgiou didn't sneak out just yet

That's wild. The Constitution class started with 200 but went up to 430 crew by Season 3 TOS, on 22 decks with a length of 300m (from Memory Alpha). Crossfield has 17 decks and a length of 750m, over twice as long; with some highly experimental tech to manage, and 30 of the crew being marines who probably don't help much with ship-board issues. Seems like Disco is really understaffed no matter how you slice it?

Or some TOS episodes with identical Earths, like the one with Yanks and Kohms

Artem Bentsionov lol 😂

@@Big_Black_Dick people forget that TOS wasn’t perfect. It was downright cheesy in some episodes. Even TNG had a few like that. But it’s the nostalgia filter. People grew up with that Trek, so they don’t want to see anything negative about it. I guarantee that if any modern Trek made an episode about Yanks and Kohms or a duplicate Earth, they’d get yelled it

Artem Bentsionov lol yeah some of the older episodes seem pretty cheesy by today's standards when u watch them nowadays, but i think DS9 and voyager stands the test of time way better

@@Big_Black_Dick agreed. I still haven’t seen a decent chunk of DS9. Gotta find those episodes. The truth is, there are plenty of older sci-fi I’d love to see remade, while at the same time fearful of what they’re likely to do to them. Modern sci-fi standards are different. I keep seeing people wanting to have a Babylon 5 remake, but I doubt any showrunner could match JMS’s vision and ability to plan ahead for 5 seasons, including writing in “trap doors” for characters. Even JMS wasn’t perfect, though

It's a very nice ship. I really like the underslung bridge.

Now i realy want another series like Stargate SG1. Something where you explore the wonders of the galaxy. A more positive science-fiction series, focused more on the potential of humanity. Any recommendations?

Almost as cool as the concept Enterprise refit for Phase 2. McQuarrie's work will always shine.

“Spinning is a lot cooler than not spinning! I’m the general, I want it to spin!”

@@awayname5008 It's not on TV, but I recommend the Bobiverse series of novels by Dennis E Taylor. The audiobook versions are very good.

The saucer doesn't spin, it's only the shell on top. If you watch the scene you'll see the windows on the side stay completely still. In physics, rotation has a lot of important effects. It's how your electricity is generated, how flywheels work, and lots of important effects. It's mentioned it's used for excess energy mitigation so it's possibly using a flywheel or using an EM field for storage like we use in modern electronics to regulate electrical current.

It litteraly jumped to shield Enterprise from being hit in that scene.

@@jakubw.2779 I still think its funny though

@@jakubw.2779 Enterprise was not even in that season, the ship it shielded was Gagarin

Kit-bashing Note: Personally, I feel it would look a lot better if the arrowhead-shaped portion of the hull was reversed (pointed end aft).

HERE we go again!!!

Trek fans would be forgiving if Discovery was a good show (like the first of the reboot movies was pretty fun) but it's a hodgepodge of sloppy writing and unlikable characters.

@@KAMiKAZOW The first season was tough but it's grown on me. It's not the best Star Trek show by any margin, but it's pretty fun to be honest.

@@KAMiKAZOW Also helps that the JJ-verse is explicitly an alternate timeline, so what happens there doesn't affect the main Trek canon.

@@seanheath4492 Except they destroyed the Romulan star empire because of a supernova.

@@bl8danjil Fair point. What I meant was that the JJ-verse wasn't a retcon or a hard reboot.

i've had this same thought :)

Dude the shroom drive is why it is not cool

Season 3 is pretty good so far.

Good? The second episode of this trash they flat out take a dump on Gene's grave.

@@gimzod76 Im assuming you never saw Andromeda

Except there has never been an official mention of the USS Crossfield besides the usual naming standards for classes

@Shawn White Some trekkies made terrible jokes that make us look like idiots

they landed in a glacier that they softened up with weapons before impact

@@hp8492 errr hitting water let alone frozen water will pull ships apart

@@hp8492 I got it. Physics are not your best asset.

''wee undercover agents?'' are they unusually small?

Nu trek turned section 31 from an intelligence service into the NKVD.

@@sebasfrankes6501 lol

@@gimzod76 yep

Section 31 went underground after season 2. All records were purged, people forced into silence. Wait a hundred years, and no one would even know the name Section 31

Have you seen Picard Episode 5 yet? Freaking Murder Trek...

@@ZeroB4NG yep

Chevron Seven... Also lit up!

I told you people i'd retired. I thought you said you were tired?

@@JaredLS10 in a matter of fact, I feel a bit tired.

Still doesn’t change all the aesthetic problem me and the continuity errors.

Or destroyer of the hope of a better future that Star Trek TOS and TNG set up.

@@innovator-sh910 its a interesting idea, that Spore Drive thing. if they set Discovery in the future, like Season 3 currently is, then maybe fans wouldn't be so critical about it's existance.

@@innovator-sh910 like, here is an idea for what the show could've been: the Discovery was a ship from the future using a retro design- because why not; they kept using Excelsior's in the Picard/Sisko/Janeway era- but a malfunction sent it back in time. They would've had to avoid contaminating the timeline while also dealing with others who would, like that mystery bad guy from Enterprise's first season. but, of course, things don't go that way and Pike's Enterprise ends up discovering... eh, the Discovery. And it would also help deal with some inconsistences, like the new types of Klingons (at this point, i think a lot of fans are head-canoning that they are the result of a bad experiment to reverse that cranium virus) and fixing that point in the timeline would take them back to their human appearances from TOS. as for things like Control... well, Section 31 is Black Ops and Control is supposedly based off the recovered Borg Technology from First Contact and Regeneration, so a rogue A.I. wouldn't be that far out of the equation.

@@kingofmonsters14 50% of std's problems could have been fixed if it was set post dominion war.

@@gimzod76 yeah. like if they want Burnam and Spock to be family, then have her be a descendent either from Pan-Vaar or Pom-Faar or however Vulcan mating season is spelled, or through his brother from Final Frontier. And spore drive- i already went into detail in a previous comment.

They'll always be the "We absolutely hate you guys, but we need you sometimes" group to me.

Wasn't it conceptualized as "technically" being officially part of starfleet, but extremely hidden in both DS9 and Enterprise? (I'm honestly asking cause it's been a while since I watched either of those two series, and that was just the impression I remember getting)

Now see what our glorious and esteemed CIA has done before. Section 31 still might be morally superior, but... I'd have to look that up. 😅

@@VCYT Quite? Section 31 in nu trek is about as quite as a three mile lone marching band.

That hasn't stopped discovery show writers before.

The data on the drive was locked behind a paywall, and Janeway would've had to pay in coffee to get that upgrade unlocked. No way that was going to happen.

When I first heard that argument, it seemed legitimate, but the more I think it over, the more I think it is really stupid. Let's think it through, first off, it's important to note that Voyager didn't manage to contact Starfleet until season 4, and the link wasn't reliable until season 6, so we'll assume that that's when Starfleet would have started looking in to it, and the first 3 or so seasons of Voyager will have played out normally. So with that in mind, let's see how it would pan out. So let's say Starfleet in their search for ways to get Voyager home comes across rumors of a top secret project that could transport ships great distances in a fraction of a second. By this time in history, it's probably safe to assume the existence of Discovery has been classified for a long time, and most if not all the people who have worked on it are probably dead. The only organization that would likely have complete records of Discovery and the spore drive at this point in history would be Section 31, and they too were little more than a myth to many at this point. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, and say Lt. Barkley manages to capture a 31 agent and get information out of them. Now what? I think we can out rule the idea that Voyager itself could have installed the spore drive as it was stated clearly that Discovery was specially designed for this drive, not to mention that Voyager would have had to scavenge the resources for making a drive themselves. So let's say Starfleet decides to build a rescue ship, this is still during the dominion war, and investing the resources for building a new ship, especially since this isn't for the war effort. Also Starfleet or Section 31 may oppose this, as others have stated, there is plenty of tactical benefit to keeping Voyager stranded in the event the Dominion destroyed the Federation. What's more, I don't really think it would be that easy for Starfleet to build such a ship. Assuming they got complete blueprints of Discovery (and that's a big if) they would still need to find spores, and a tardigrade. Even if they wanted to go for the genetically engineered pilot approach like Discovery did, they would still need tardigrade DNA. We haven't seen either of these resources in abundance within the Trek universe, and Starfleet's attempt to find another tardegrade back in Discovery was unsuccessful. Finally, there's the fact of what would Starfleet or the crew of Voyager think of the spore drive. These are the same people who abandoned the quantum slipstream after just one disastrous test run. Just look at the spore drive's shortcomings, it was responsible for the destruction of both ships to test it, along with all their crews (even the section 31 records would state that Discovery was destroyed, as that is what the Enterprise crew testified). Not to mention, building such a rescue ship would result in Voyager being left abandon in an unknown quadrant, the exact kind of thing Janeway was trying to avoid by marooning the ship in the first place. It would be insanely hard for anyone by the 24th century to get a hold of anything that would allow them to re-create the spore drive, and even if they did, it is still very unlikely they would have gotten it to work, or not simply dismiss it as just another failed project with grand ambitions. In this scenario, I assumed a lot of things had to go right, and even then, I still doubt that it would have been used, especially considering there were plenty of other ways Voyager could have gotten home, and by the time all this would have plaid out, and a ship was built, Voyager would have likely found their way home anyway.

@@josephbryant8799 On the other hand. at least from a technical side, the Intrepid-Class with it's bio-neural gel packs could have been the one ship class that could install a spore drive easier than any other Starfleet ship. The packs might even be used to produce the spores for the drive an be used as navigation system for the spore drive. Considering that a spore drive can cause an interdimensional collapse (or something like that) you'd assume that Starfleet Captains get at least some basic information about it like OMEGA. Other that that an interdimensional invassion could also be a possibility. In the end you can endlessly argue for and against Voager getting access to the spore drive until the end of the universe and you won't come to a clear conclusion

@@grayscribe1342 How could the Gel packs, produce spores? We saw in the show that spores could only be cultivated using certain plants, and we have no idea how Stamets got a hold of these plants or how rare they are. What's more, you still have the problem that even with organic circuitry you would still need to modify it with tardigrade DNA, which means you have to find a tardigrade. Once again, we have no idea how rare these things are, or where one would look for them. This information alone would be extremely hard to come by for Starfleet or Voyager, even if they did have a basic knowledge of it, and that's assuming the technology could be easily incorporated onto Voyager, or the crew would be willing to investigate this far into something that all the evidence pointed towards being a complete failure.