@4:10 Excellent work @RoachRC! There are so many thoughts rolling in my head at 11:50p, but I'll try to consolidate everything... First, yes, I firmly believe RC can and must have a more organized format of racing to break away from the bad habits we all play a part of. My gripe with the Sponsored-Sportsman debate 😮 is that we have never defined what these words mean... anywhere... so, of course, people abuse it! The idea of the Sportsman class began as entry level, but now it means some combination of "KWOWN but not FAST" and racers call foul because of an implied financial and knowledge discrepancy amongst competitors... Sponsor no longer just means skill. It also means influence within your community. I, too, sometimes say to myself, "How did [name] get on with [brand]?" The answer isn't on the final running order. It's how [name] carries [brand] on and off the track.. Next, the definitions... heres how I believe we should correct these classifications: •Sport/Intermediate/Expert (SIE), can be defined as a split determined by SKILL LEVEL. Full stop. Racers can register where they see fit. However, if qualified within the Top 5 of the next level, they are moved up. •Privateer 0%/Open0-75%/Pro 75-100% (POP), can be defined as a split determined by CHASSIS LEVEL SPONSORSHIP. Full stop. Structure the Pro classes, as they should be, let us crazy open drivers have fun at the track OR try to make a name for ourselves in an effort to earn PRO status, and we should also consider shortening the Privateer race day SIGNIFICANTLY so Pravateers don't have to be there all day/weekend. Dollars to donuts, if it's not a 3-day event, every track should be running a version of SIE, but we can't continie to apply the same rules at home to our arena races when they're suppose to be more prestigious than the avg club level events. Finally, if you have any issues with the current understanding at your local track, politely ask them to better define what these classes are.

Filling a car with upgrades is a perversion of the term "stock". Eurotruck is a great ruleset.

Time to go back to the old school way of mains and only mains. No more of these "trophy" hunting divisions. Mains A through Z only. Awards for top 3 and only top 3 in mains A to C. You want an $8 trophy, get better. Spend money on tires and not pretty bench racing items. Finally, there's more people racing today then at anytime in the history of our hobby, yet, everyone is talking about how to save or grow racing. That said, there's a reason why racing is the smallest segment of the the rc hobby. Bashing, crawling, flying etc is more fun because it's less structured and cheaper to participate in. Want racing to grow, make it fun and "racers" need to get over themselves.

We need more mini leagues. 10 scale is great, but you can't expect ppl go into the hobby spending 500+ on a 2w drive buggy.

Sometime between 2004 and 2017 skill level based classes were created. in my opinion this was a big mistake. In the past we would have one open class for each type of vehicle. Re-sorts during qualifying would place you with other drivers of similar pace. By mains the rankings were sorted out. The winner of every lower main, top 3 of A main, and TQ would receive a trophy. Top 3 of each main (upper and lower) would have a podium picture taken of them. A-mains were 30-60 minutes, B-mains were 15-30 minutes, and all other lower mains were 10-15 minutes. This is a great way to structure a program for many reasons: 1) Everyone has a shot at a podium. 2) Everyone has a shot at taking home some hardware. 3) Heats are filled, and having enough turn marshals is not an issue. 4) The program runs faster due to having less overall heats and mains. 5) Mass majority of racers get more track time. The racing program time savings can be redistributed to the lower mains. 6) Sand bagging is not possible. 7) Shorter race days due to the consolidated program. 8) Promotes a racing environment where drivers are indirectly pushed to improve. Bottom Line: The RC community needs to take a hard look at how we did things in the past. Maybe we go a full circle?

What we need are more casual parking lot races, just simple events for hobbyists to together and run some races in public where people can spectate, or just show off some of their collection. Too many race tracks are hidden away and out of sight, let alone far too serious.

As far as the full scale stuff goes Associated use to be heavily involved with SCT. (I think they still do on a smaller scale). ECX (Horizon) sponsored a SCT as well a few years back. Recently they sponsored a NASCAR under their name, and ARRMA with Michael McDowell. Horizon was a minority sponsor on a few Supercross bikes last season, and some Chili Bowl midget cars as well. Naughty Boy RC was a minority supporter of Ryan Ellis in the Xfinity series for one race also! You made some great points about stock racing. Mark is doing an awesome job with his Slash series. In my opinion "stock" racing should be simple, affordable, and pointed towards beginner racers as much as possible. Controversial opinion from a R/C and full scale racer: I believe the "big" races" or the ones that many factory team guys attend is what ROAR should focus on overseeing. They need to document those events with similar oversight to a national series. We don't need all the extra rules for most non slick tire facility's on a local level. I have seen multiple people get discouraged or not be able to race do them not having the right turn motor, a roar approved battery etc.. The most competitive R/C racing and most affordable I have been apart of has all been open 1/10 2wd classes with basic guidelines. It has to have that kind of vehicles tire/wheels, body, and a 2s lipo. Its actually crazy how many races you can be competitive with and win on clapped out used equipment with these simple rules, and for way less money than stock racing.

I am actually fairly new to RC. I admit I haven’t been to a “big” race yet, but our local track does pretty much start every new racer with a slash, spec racing is actually the most fun race and everyone gets into it even though they aren’t the fastest race that day or night and everyone pretty much is laughing and having a good time and I think that is what RC is really. We treat it like a big family event. I like this video, I was unaware of the process in Europe and think that some kind of rank system would work in the right setting. Great video!

proof I watched whole video - I don't like Traxxas or horizon hobbies either 😉 you really deserve more subs

Another great video, thanks! After chatting with you, I was astonished to learn that there's no structured regional and national championships in the USA!

Definitely gonna have to get my start with the Euro trucks

Stock class should be treated as spec. And the use of entry level Tamiya kits should be encouraged instead of high level racing kits. The DT03 chassis is a prime canadate for this. Edit: I have been thinking a bit about this after posting. A spec class using Associated RTR RB10's would be a viable option too to get started in the hobby.

Competitive action pistol shooting has most if not all of the same issues you talk about for RC racing but there is a strong national (and international) organization that ties it all together. I think you could lay most of the issues you list at the feet of ROAR not being a good enough organization

Great video! I recently came back to RC and I was blow away by how disjoined the state of RC is. You should cover 1:28 racing like the Reflex and Atomic cars, its exploding in the US and internationally. The 1:28 racing community is actively working together to standardize the various classes, box stock, stock spec, mod and open. IFMAR is even considering reviewing the scale.

100% agree on your thoughts on stock racing!

My only issue with the Privateer, Open and Pro system is track race time. All 3 should get equal time to race. This way ideally the privateers have more track time to improve and move up to open.

You are answering your own question concerning how to expand the hobby. In the US we need a specific governing body to provide the rules, classes, and uniformity of the sport. Just like in major sports there’s a governing body. RC racing has lost its way with that. ROAR, IFMAR, etc. Again, back with I was competitively racing, we had Stock, Modified. Stock was basically what came out of the box, certain size of the motor and battery. You could tinker and adjust as much and as little while staying in that class. Modified was anything works. There were pro and sponsored drivers in both classes. When Losi came out, I had a sponsorship with their stock batteries and motors. I would run them in my RC10, and they would provide those items and pay for big event fees. Today it seems it’s the larger reach of who ever can get the name out. I’d like to see a governing body and simplification for each class. I think that would make the hobby grow.

There was a big ROAR event back in 1991 at RCHR that I raced in and they provided the motors for the stock class.

Another great video Roach!

Know it all preacher... lol. Your videos are great brother. You have a great perspective. My immediate thought was that local tracks would need to be much better at teching and officiating. LiveRC would provide a perfect platform upon which to build a tiered class system that is based on driver performance.

keep the opening tunes, and grow yourself a moustache. great video by the way.

Very nice video. Great research and presentation of all the pros and cons

Late to the party but here's a few random thoughts: I think a large part of the problem with sportsman/intermediate/pro is that you get the most value for your entry fee when you make an a-main. Like, if you spent $100 to race a big event and you qual into a C main and you get 1x 5 minute final you'll feel kind of ripped off when you see the fast guys get hour long nitro mains or triple a-mains. IMO, there needs to be less of a disparity in the value proposition for someone who makes the F main vs someone who makes the A main. We're all paying the same entry fee, we should all fee like we're getting the same experience for that money. IMO that's why sandbagging can be a problem (like when you have guys like JQ running in the intermediate class, can't believe racetime let that happen). And honestly, I think that's the crux of the problem - RC racing has a major problem justifying the experience you get vs the price you pay. You spend $1k+ on a rig that you can only run at special tracks, and you spend $20 on an entry for a local club race where you get 20 minutes max of runtime out of an event with a time commitment ranging from 6 to 10+ hours. And depending on the surface you run on, you burn through $50 sets of tires in a single race night. And if you want more track time, you need to buy a whole new car for a different class. The solutions to these problems are all pretty simple - limit race nights to 1 entry per driver to keep the program short, encourage spec/box stock classes to keep it cheap, and stop running on surfaces that eat tires. But whenever you suggest these sorts of things all the "hardcore" racers balk and don't understand why you'd even consider any of those things. You should look into the Mudboss class that's big in dirt oval. Those guys have figured out how to run a box stock class and keep it cheap while keeping it competitive so you can race for cheap even if you're a good driver - that's another fatal mistake I think a lot of spec racing fall into. Making it beginner only and treating it as a class you eventually "graduate out of." I think spec classes need talented drivers and strong competition in order to survive, and the Mudboss class seems to be proving this out.

Big track in Arizona makes all stock motors fixed timing. I think that’s what stock should be

I am new to the racing side of RC so these are my thoughts as a noob. The biggest source of knowledge and know how comes from current racers and KZfaqrs like my man Roach. Frankly, there is no welcome party for new folks and racing is intimidating for someone not accustom to getting their car around a track without crashing. In general, current racers are not very open or social when it comes to explaining things and there are tons of things you need to know just to be able to build a kit let alone trouble shoot a car and how it responds to the current grip of a track surface. My wife makes fun of me for even trying bc she's been to the track with me and she felt even more out of place and stared at. Maybe there needs to be an event where the cars are encouraged to crash while racing in a simple oval... Winner gets a portion of the entry fees. Maybe there needs to be some partnership with local schools where cheap kits are part of a science project and the race night happens at a local track. Maybe the event has to share drivers between a kid and a parent. I know these are ideas that don't exist but if you want to grow the hobby, that starts with new people not feeling like they are just in the way

What does "Stock" even mean in RC racing then? Anywhere else, running something as stock would mean running it the way it came out of the box. IMO there should be a hard push to have more races where modding is minimal as you say so that people can just by the car and race it as it is without being blown out of the water by someone with more money.

Mod gets just as expensive if you get the good esc

Your thoughts on spec racing are awesome!

Great video. I came to the hobby from a slightly different but related one: drone racing. And let me say this: the AMA is a textbook example of what NOT to do as a governing body. Any club affiliated with the AMA required all pilots to be an AMA member, and membership started at $35 per year (probs more now). All you got for that was some insurance (which ive heard horror stories about trying to file a claim on) and a magazine subscription. All the while your field or club got next to nothing in benefit. As a sportsman who regularly gets dusted at club races, I'm all for the idea of a "license" that tracks your race results at member clubs and facilities to try and create a "fair" class system. I think itd be worth an annual fee, but with a few caveats: -$35 per year is too much to spend to get next to no benefit. Honestly if they charged me $10 per year to send me a paper membership card with my ROAR number on it for racing, I'd be in. -if they want to charge more, ROAR would have to provide some sort of benefit support to local tracks, be it stipends for equipment, new literature kits for rule changes, etc. The governing body that all of these tracks would have to become members of should see some benefit for being a member.

That was smart content, Mr. Roach. Part 2 was as good as part #1! And no, this was not preachy at all, quite the opposite in fact. I agree that the R/C community needs to be more welcoming to new racers (and to older racers making a comeback) in order to grow. We need "spec" classes with clear and simple rules that limit cost. Not everybody has deep pockets and lots of hours each week to make their cars more competitive.

Roar needs to implement a license system like the uro groups do. That goes a long way to fixing sand bagging.

for a points system we do have rc garage that keeps track of race results

Fantastic video Roach considered, thought provoking,..... Never really considered we had it good in the UK.... As I run a class which is unregulated by the BRCA... But as I transition to buggys this year I'll let you know what I think... Visiting the UK in the summer did I catch that correctly?

at my track if its your first time or its the first race of a series you get put in to the first qualifier (heat) randomly. if you have raced in the series previously its based on your last finish. second qualifier (heat) you get put based on how you placed in round 1. and the same with the mains. top 1 or 2 in the mains bumps in to the next class. theres no choosing which class you want to race in.

id still like to see my super stock and pro stock rulesets be implimented. atleast on carpet where it would make a difference

I'm onboard with getting rid of bruggy bodies. I would prefer to ban them altogether. Bring back Stadium Truck style truggy bodies. I have to buy a HPI Trophy Truggy Flux body to get a stadium truck style body and that model is ancient. No idea how long they will continue to make them.

Wonder if RC manufacturers ever thought of getting a deal with Epic games, have it feature an RC car in Rocket League

I’m guilty of this but stock spec shouldn’t cost more then mod.

Gotta get it into o the public eye

Have you been to the track at 2:30 ? Thats my local track rocck racing. It’s great

Nice info video woooo😊

Just my opinion, but maybe only offer financial insensitive for pro, and just lame token gifts for anything under.

As someone that owns a lot of 1/14 and 1/16 scale with my son, there just isn't enough support for budget friendly options. Most parents can't buy their 5yo a $300+ rc car plus transmitter, batteries, chargers, and tires. And then parts. Just to see if they'll like it. That goes for the parents themselves too. The problem isn't the cost of the rc directly but the stigma of buying a "cheap" model. Here near Tacoma WA we were shunned for trying to race losi mini b or wltoys on open track days. My son was 5 at the time and we had raced on our home made track a ton before trying. The experience we had multiple times going to multiple tracks was always that of negativity and frankly just plain snobbery. It's a shame because his excitement for rc truly was shattered from his experience. We still race a ton at home. We have the means, but will never buy into 1/10 or 1/8 now. If the kids and newbies are never supported then the hobby is bound to fail.

Just introduce drivers license classes via reached average times per track, possibly with yearly renewal via demonstration. Or something like that?

limiting tire options is big. so what if the tires aren't optimal for the track. Then everyone is racing with the same amount of high or low grip together.

At this point it is all expensive if you want to race. That’s why I had to get out of it after only doing it for a year

They need to start streaming big events on twitch and get kids hooked. Also manufacturers need to more active on social media and partner with celebrity drivers like Lewis Hamilton and Tony Stewart and bring their followers in the sport

i dont see why live rc cant bump people up to the next skill level, every track uses live rc for timing, why cant it keep up with how many podiums and or the lap times that sportsman or intermidate drivers have and place everyone in the class that they belong in, seems like track owners dont want to bump people maybe they are afriad the person will stop showing up, but how many people quit bc of the sandbagers? just a idea but if there was a "Bumb System" incorporated in live rc what would be the flaw?

im not a racer i just race at my home track. our local track closed. i have club raced. but if i did race i would not pull over to let others by i think thats silly. if you cant pass me then you dont deserve to get by. no one in full scale racing pulls over to let other racers by. just dont block others from getting by. i dont support roar. its just another not needed expense. they are just trying to make money off of the racing community thats already way to expensive. the reason racing isnt more popular is its not very kid friendly. rc tracks are mostly grown men and most dont seem very friendly and take racing toy cars way to serious. rc racing needs to be more about spending time with family and friends and less about winning.

My track has sportsman stock. Stock, super stock, masters stock, and mod. The better you get the higher the class you can go. Mod class everyone is fast. I don’t think mod guys would appreciate someone being in the way

We need structure like BMX with USA BMX formally aba , wins bump your class district , state national points same rules everywhere, but this could get tricky with roar approved things being needed sending the costs up , or maybe just dump stock and roar approved anything see below . As racers we need to do more to lessen anxiety for new racers and get them racing. Helping with what we can and clear communication with rules and equip requirements etc. Stock needs to go away , just be done with it, 1/8 is cheaper than indoor 17.5 electric. Sponsored racers is a whole hours long subject. Not sure where to start with it because without at least tire deals a lot of people could not race, maybe that goes back to your spec tire comment.

I missed just running Nitro buggy Nitro truggy there's too many classes of cars it's not just the different skill levels

You'll need a single, strong central sanctioning body before there is significant reform. They will have to withstand the anger from racers losing options, and the financial threat from the brands losing income because of outlawed products. Can a unified leadership happen without a near-collapse of racing, though? I hope so. If you want to expand racing, yes, you need classes that encourage the use of mainstream RC cars, not only ultra-specialized race missiles. To expand the sport in general, work with your town to make an RC bashing and crawling spot, tucked into one corner of of your local park. Get RC to a spot where people can actually see it. Hiding it away in metal buildings, and praying that the kids of current racers will all take up the sport (not all will) isn't working very well. More RCers overall means more people getting into racing. Competition, by its very nature, is exclusive. To become healthy and sustaining, it needs to become more inclusive. THANK YOU for caring enough to have the conversation!

I think somebody will cheat that way because they find it more easier to tell somebody that don't know how to drive compared to somebody that does making it up like that it's a great idea it just need to be it needs to be enforced to make sure everybody knows The right way keep people happy in haddy

The biggest thing to help rc grow is to have one class per race day. I dont really race any more because i dont have the time every weekend to race a 14 hour event. And if it was sorter days, you would get more kids into it. My kids like racing but dont have that kind of attention span.

I haven’t been into RC since 2002, so I’m curious to know what happened to ROAR? It seemed like they were the default back when I was subscribed to RC Car Action and spent time at the hobby shop or just driving on quiet suburban streets. What made them lose credibility and how long has that been the case?

So, the thing with ROAR... I'm glad they're getting more involved in making sure the sport can grow, however I can't agree with actively requiring membership. If they want to do a leaderboard system it should be an automatic "enter a ROAR sanctioned event and you're automatically in the system" sort of thing. Requiring membership would be a turn-off for people coming into the sport, not just because of "American individualism" but also because of increased costs and being told "you're not a member, get the fuck out of here" if someone shows up without knowing they need to be a member.

Ran into a somewhat known KZfaq RC racer this weekend at a race this weekend😅 3 of us were new guys and we all had the same feeling about him... Where he talks about in his KZfaq videos how about going up to the fast guys and asking them some questions I was met with cold shoulders and strange looks. I was super glad to be up there with three other people that were new that noticed this so we were able to sit there and sort of see there definitely is a separation it almost feels like some of the guys think they're like Motocross guys like a new age Rockstar Monster Energy duck-billed hat Vibe. I was ready to give up on the whole damn thing after spending $2,500 I literally thought dudes would want to be helpful and s*** and they weren't we're not. I'm just glad that I exchanged numbers with a few of those new guys I met at the hobby shop and I was even able to give one of the guys a 17.5 motor that he needed so that he could start racing so in the end because we were able to talk about it it makes me want to continue with the hobby but also gave me a good Learning lesson that maybe I don't want to hang out with the racer guys or even be up there on club race nights unless it's with the oval guys because the buggy guys even when they're online on KZfaq with thousands of followers acting like nice representatives of the hobby they are not. If I had a KZfaq channel with thousands of followers I would be super kind in public and especially at a RC track where there's lots of people watching. It turned into all three of us watching Pros wreck and lose races and US laughing at it instead of praising them and rooting for them

Our club has our own rules and races, it’s not professional, it’s just fun with races and yes we do win trophies, I can’t stand professional racing, y’all grown ups act like 10 yo complaining about anything and everything, it’s not fun professionally, but get a club together and race for fun, that’s where it’s at!

Stop all sponsorships in sportsman or novice classes. Sponsorships belong in the pro level only. People sandbag so that they can show a win to gain sponsorship.

The hardest thing is finding a good track. And one that has decent people who don't take it too seriously. Been to loads where they are all like robots. Acting like they are a one man F1 team. One I went to a couple of years ago I joked about that I charge my lips on NIMH mode thats why im a little faster on the straight. 2 stood up and started to berate me telling me I was a fool. And telling me I as what was wrong with the hobby and putting lives at risk... So instead of shoving an overcharged Lipo up there buts I just left and never went back to that one. But you'll find most of the clubs here in the UK are run by people just like that. Stiff robots with not an ounce of humour. Basically 50 year old virgins who eat the same meal every single day.

One of the things i feel is that more of the manufacturer needs to invest more in to tracks and rc users, not a few high profile drivers but the lower hobbyists. As it is now its just buy our products you need a tunalyzer its only $200 buy this and that look what our sponsored pro driver got. But far to much of tracks on this globe need more investment from the manufacturers to keep the symbios going of growing and make our hobby bigger and more avalable. Also the format of noob middle and pro is just different names on the same thing as drivers during qualifie sort out what heat they should runn in finals and for sponsored drivers or not that might be another part that i dont got an adea about right now.

Racing RC cars is 1-2 % of the hobby... Bashing, crawling, boating, flying, collecting is 90% and re-sell is the rest.

… as someone who has won many races.. those fancy parts dont make you race clean… those fancy parts usually weigh more… theres only a FEW parts that are lighter, and arent so vast they are unobtainable… the plastic parts your car comes with is the lightest stuff you’ll get… bearings arent winning you races… titanium turnbuckles arent winning races…. Its just the truth… start practicing… ive NEVER owned a vehicle that wasnt already 2 generations behind current… none of that crap matters… nobody reading this is losing by 10ths… your losing by seconds…per lap…

So you've never seen Traxxas sponsor an 800hp stadium super truck, baja truck, rally car or NHRA dragster with their name plastered on the side? 😂 You must be new to motorsports....

Nope no lic. no membership If you win 2 events in low class you must move to open class