God, this makes so much sense. All of my efforts to eliminate that bit of natural protraction during high effort sets were always detrimental to my performance, despite what other people said. Thanks for making this video, it truly helped me understand the bench press better.

Thank god someone with credentials came out with this. I developed some shoulder pain in my bench press that was really messin with my head. Followed all these retraction tips and literally made my shoulder worse. Just lighter weight and movement with intent and slight angle changes made it go away.

I can only speak from my own experience but I use to just have a flat bench and as I started lifting heavier and heavier weights eventually I started getting discomfort in my rotator cuff area. I read about using a power lifting arch and retracting my scapula for more stability and tried it out. My shoulder pain went away immediately and never returned and I started progressing even faster in weight. I've never had any problems with it but I admittedly only do a slight arch and I'm not making it a priority to hold my shoulders together while pressing so maybe it's just a matter of taking things to an extreme which is causing people problems.

For me pushing my shoulders back actually got rid of a lot of shoulder issues. But i do admit its harder to reach peak weights with it

My recommendation has always been to set the shoulders in a relatively retracted position during the setup, then to completely forget about their existence during the descent and especially the ascent. This in my experience let's me reduce range of motion without squeezing the scaps and upper back the whole time.

Highly experienced powerlifter gives us gifts. Priceless ! Thank you David.

My coach basically told me this but I didn't really understand what he meant until just now watching this video. He never said not to retract my shoulders, he simply told me to focus on creating tightness through leg drive and arching. He said instead of tightening my back to create arch to drive with my legs and push the bottom of my ribs toward the bar, which I did but I still retract my shoulders. I will be giving this a try today while benching to feel it out, as it does make a lot of sense that you don't want to engage muscles that will act in the opposite direction you want the bar to move!

This is very in line with how calisthenics athletes teach the good ol' pushups, retraction happens on the eccentric mostly on its own as you say, and on the concentric reverse back to neutral (or even protraction in the Pushup Plus variation). Great content as usual, and anecdotally had the same experience, everything felt better when I stopped thinking about forcing the position of my rotator cuf.

You have one of the best channels on KZfaq. Unfortunately most other channels just post this rehashed info for views. You explained it clearly and your channel is one of the few I value now. Thank-you so much.

I was struck in the bad way and if I didn't not suffer a shoulder impingement, I would not be listening to you but since I know the pain of shoulder impingement, I am listening to every word you are saying.

In my opinion arching and subsequent reduction in range of motion in the bench press should mostly be a result of spinal (thoracic and maybe lumbar extension) and not scapular function (retraction). I had very good results with some lighter front squats before my bench sessions, because it helped me to learn adopting this posture

In my personal experience and with many of my clients, the issue is that most shoulders are protracted in a person's neutral stance. For many people their posture has naturally pulled their shoulders forward and they definitely stop short on the bench press and push ups because there's a mental block to bringing the shoulders back. It's very very difficult to actually retract your shoulders and for most people by the time they have "retracted" they are actually neutral. For me personally, what I mentally think is "holding a pencil between my shoulder blades" is actually just having a straight and neutral back. The important part for me is not protracting which not only hurt my shoulder when I was younger, but it takes the tension off of the chest contraction. I imagine this is very different though in powerlifting as the weight would likely make it difficult. I immediately intensified my contraction across the chest especially at the end of a rep by bringing the shoulders back and holding them neutral. It feels less like curling your bicep while flexing your tricep and more like doing a bicep curl with a block behind your elbow. I guess some people have been saying to squeeze the shoulder blades together with all your might? That wouldn't be good. Thinking about it more, it's akin to engaging your core when you do calisthenics or squats. Your not curling so tightly that it moves in the opposite direction of the squat, but your engaging so that the energy transfer from the floor isn't in your jello. That's one large problem with everyone "hearing" a thing instead of being trained. It's very easy to get what someone explains wrong or say it incorrectly for the audience. Then those people walk away and poison their associates with the wrong ideas and all of the sudden people are imagining that they can push a bar upwards while pulling it down at the same time. Wild.

Wow, I’ve been thinking about this exact subject during every benching session in my current mesocycle - your video is very informative and it seems I finally have some idea on how to modify my approach to shoulder retraction so I won’t feel like I need to fight my own body to keep my shoulder blades maximally pinched during pressing phase of the lift. Thank you so much, I’m subscribing immediately.

I'm a Massage Therapist newly getting into weight lifting. I just have to say - when I was first given the cue to retract my shoulder blades for bench press, it just seemed so wrong, based on my understanding of anatomy, but I was the noobie weightlifter so I listened to my trainer. Today I started looking around for actual reasons why retraction is good, and your video was a big relief to watch. Thank you!

I remember reading Greg Nuckols on this. I think it was in his how to bench guide. If I remember correctly he said something along the lines of he didn't really care what you did with your shoulders as long as it was comfortable and facilitated good movement. depressed, retracted, elevated, he wasn't too fussed. his main thing was upon pressing up to concentrate on flaring and pushing. that was the main cue. I have a mildly kyphotic posture due to some mild schueuramann's disease and I've found that slightly elevating my shoulders and pinching with the upper traps a bit actually feels more comfortable than trying to depress the shoulder blades, and gives me a better platform to push off of. Anyways good video!

I have been struggling about my shoulder position while doing bench press. Will definitely try your approach aka just be normal lol

Great video David, when i first Got into PL and PL specefic training In allmost all cases the first thing being taught is the importance of maintaining a retracted position throughout the Bench Press, it was frustrating to me because i never seemed to be able to maintain that retracted position. Regardless of cues programming etc. Then i came across some of the material from kabuki strength yt Channel where they discuss scapulahumeral rythm and the focus should be more on depression and otherwise let the scapular move naturally through retraction and protraction throughout a Bench rep. I have certainly found it helpful for my Bench, nevertheless its a great topic for discussion once again great video David i look forward to the next !

Two part answer here because having done both raw and equipped I can speak a little bit on it. Not an expert in any way shape or form just my two cents. 1. For raw, when I draw my shoulder blades down and together it elevates my chest and to me, feels very stable. So by creating a tiny arch, and setting my body up to where the bar is effectively being moved through a decline bench instead of flat which typically is a stronger position for most. 2. In equipped, yes you are using your last to pull the bar to you because the shirt is fighting you but, by having shoulders down and together, your helping keep chest up to shorten that range of motion. I do see your point and I agree that not all ques are going to work for everyone. Maybe it's more of a build thing where maybe a wider or smaller lifter would benefit from.creating that shorter ROM. Great content as always!

the reason you retract your shoulders is it puts the movement into your triceps where it should be, not your shoulder that can't handle let's say 500 pounds hence why people tear pecs and rotator cuffs but not triceps. you do back work to create the stability of that position with it retracted. pressing is an arm movement, not a chest exercise. its the same as a squat, you want the glutes and hams to be stronger than your quads, as they're the workers .

Been retracting my shoulders and it’s been driving me mad! Thank you for this video

The information reiterated in this video combined with a video Marcellus and Michael Seay put out a couple of years ago really helped my bench press overall. I often used so many cues to keep my scaps both retracted and depressed throughout and the whole purpose was for the psuedo-stability my brain felt while in that position, although it did nothing to help the actual press overall. Now, I mimic Noriega to some extent where all spinal extension and elevation is created and maintained through my leg drive during the set-up and the rep(s) themselves. Overall, my bench has not only improved from a 1RM POV, but also the consistency in my reps/barpath is much better as well. Solid video David!

Great video. I personally use some shoulder retraction for setting up my bench press. As very well discussed in video, that helps with creating tightness and reducing a bit ROM. However after the liftoff, I don't try to actively keep that position. I basically forget about it and focus on leg drive and pressing.

Great video David! I was hesitant at first but your explanation was on point. Looking forward to the how to bench press finalization.

On the eccentric phase Im arching my back and less of my lower back and upper back is contacting the bench. Im also retracting my shoulder blades and actually providing a stiff connection with the ground, my feet, my torso, shoulder blades, and controlling the lowering of the bar. That way, Im actually keeping tension and using the elasticity of my muscles so I dont have to contract everything as hard during the concentric phase. So yeah, Ive had all sorts of other joint problems, but nothing in my shoulders or elbows from the bench. The bench sucks anyway. Its sad that some people have bench PRs better than what they squat.

Underrated channel

I really appreciate the multitude of opinions and cues that you can get on this platform from those with experience to share… I just tried this and it seemed to be of benefit. Thanks

Best explanation I’ve ever heard about this issue.

Thanks for this, learned this the hard way after straining my pec a couple times

I actually started retracting my shoulders to manage the shoulder pain I was experiencing before. Before that my shoulders would just move around freely and put a lot of strain on the joint. Also, if you don't retract your shoulders, how do you keep the pecs included in the movement? Whenever I don't retract my shoulders the triceps take over and my pecs don't move pretty much at all.

That make so much sense. I always could understand why we are tought to do something that works only until bar is relatively light. When we reach 90%+ of 1 Rep max this “perfect” cue of tacking elbows and retracting shoulders doesn’t work and we can only lift heavier when we do it “wrong” way.

This makes sense. I have been working on the big 3 lately and been focusing on powerlifting form. My shoulder aggravates me more than before and my knees have been hurting because im to focused on keeping my shoulders retracted on bench and pulling down on bar in the squat. Dont overthink it, just go through the movement and control the weight

thank you so much for making this video. Legit an exact issue I had for so long.

these are really good pointers, and are put forth in a manner so easy to digest and understand!

1:41 "coming down will be depression" me at 4 am on many nights

This man is a hero

I will for sure try this next bench session great content !

As far as I know, this originates from the point that we as humans in everyday life, when we push our shoulder blades open horizontally (protraction), as well as when we do the opposite gesture, our shoulder blades close horizontally (retraction). But, when we are lying on the bench, our scapulae cannot make a natural retraction, due to the weight of our body added to the weight we are lifting, so many experts recommend doing this retraction beforehand and thus avoid shoulder problems or injuries.

Interesting. I think my own experience jibes with some of the favorable comments below. Retraction during setup helps me get my upper-upper back down on the bench properly and into the quasi-decline position. Your comment about "just press" is great.

Hypertrophy based benching for me is different.. I pack my lats and drop my shoulders DOWN not so much back . I first started ramming my shoulders back in an exaggerated retraction. That was still an omprpvement at the time but I then realised packing my lats and dropping my shoulders gave me the perfect line.

Couldn’t agree more. I got so lost in what my shoulders were doing and forgot about the bigger picture

Just wanted to say I'm new to the channel and loving it bro. Massively underrated & appreciate the content. Keep up the good work mate 💪

Recently I experimented with pressing with not retracted shoulders for increased range of motion (and hopefully more hypertrophy), and I started having issues with my shoulder because I'm not trained in that bottom range of motion although I can shift some weight there. Just a word of caution to anyone who wants to change their style: don't go all in immediately, haha I've cued shoulder retraction and depression for myself a lot, for the descent. I've never considered that shoulder retraction could work against the press itself, but I don't seem to be having that problem. Probably just intuitively learnt to let the shoulders move enough during the press to let the pecs do their job. For high-arch bench pressers I'd say maximal shoulder retraction is still the way to go, because it seems to me that the benefits of (even slightly) reduced ROM tend to outweigh mechanical inefficiencies more and more as the ROM gets shorter. Like those ridiculous grips where the index finger is on the ring and the rest of the grip is actually 6cm to the side lol

This makes so much sense to me. I am trying to improve my bench press, and I started looking up guides on it and retracting and depressing my shoulder blades was a common thing. Now that I have been thinking about it, my bench press has felt way more unstable and I've started wiggling a lot when I approach failure. I used to just be able to fail but never actually wiggled the weight up -now, there's so much wiggling when I try and keep my chest up during the press, and shoulders back and down. I can't even focus on the leg drive because there's so much going on. I'm going to lower the weight a tad and try and focus more on my leg drive, and almost completely ignore my shoulders. It used to feel so much smoother when all I used to do was get under the bar, arch a bit and just press. Maybe I used to have subconsciously more leg drive than I do now. I am lifting more now than I used to be, but that's just due to time and muscle growth. My form feels way worse and I really want to fix that, because I know I am capable of pressing more than I really am. The wiggling is a pain in the ass. Thank you!

What you say makes sense, in certain contexts. If you are talking about building CHEST strength, or prioritizing hypertrophy of the chest muscles...I think your advice makes great sense. For simply BENCH PRESS strength and the limited range of motion setting up for powerlifting provides...depending on your technique...chest might not be the most important muscle. You mention the function of the pectoral...but look at the wide handgrip and limited range of motion in benching for maximum weights. You aren't pulling your arm across your chest, you aren't providing a wide range of motion as you would with say a dumbbell bench press. My lats/back are much stronger than my pecs, as are most peoples...My lats and back carry the weight down and provide (with leg drive) my initial push...retracting my shoulders provides me the best leverage to activate my lats/back....and get my strongest upper body muscles heavily involved in the lift....and when you lift in this manner...you dont have to flare your elbows out to get them over anything....so that isn't even part of the equation because my elbows stay close to my body...again, i think this is good advice for CHEST strength...but misses the mark on pure BENCH PRESS strength because a powerlifting bench press is NOT a chest exercise, it's a compound exercise, that optimized, should prioritize the STRONGEST muscles for maximum lifts. Think about the powerlifting squat: Are you going to prioritize the quads for maximum lifts? Not if you want PR's...you are going to leverage your strongest lower body muscles....because again, the powerlifting squat is NOT a quad exercise...

How would you protect your shoulders from injury without retracting?

Brillant Explantation ! ..... THIS is where I have being going wrong !!! THANK YOU 🙌

The way Mark Rippetoe explained it was that it helps keep the bar path higher over the the chest (closer to a straight line down) without putting your shoulder in a compromised position.

I can actually press more weight since following these cues. Thanks!

I just focus on creating a platform for the pressing muscles. Bench is mostly tricep anyways. The chest is much more of a stabilizer than a prime mover for me and it has worked both for getting muly numbers up aswell as making benching more enjoyable

I destroyed my shoulder playing football broke it in 2 spots played through the whole season with it and I could not do any pressing movement and also developed osteolysis in my shoulder, had the choice to get surgery and miss all of off season and ruin my upcoming season or try physical therapy and see if it works, I chose PT and they taught me to use my shoulder blades and back when pressing over head and in front instead of putting all that pressure on my shoulder and rotator cuff and it saved my life and saved my career as a shot putter too without them teaching me this I would not be competing at a D1 level and I am still surgery free I not can raise my arm fully above my head pain free and can do any pressing movement pain free so I will continue pulling shoulder blades together when benching

It’s not that your trying to hamstring curl on the decent of your squat , or trying to use your lats when pressing with your chest , it’s about having the body fully contracted while utilizing the targeted muscles of the movement your doing , having the antagonist active and every other part of your body is key because you may not contract them at all when doing an exercise and you leak strength . No matter if your isolating a muscle with an exercise your full body should be active , especially the stabilizing muscles and even antagonist

That would definitely simplify things for me a bit. Thank you

The more retracted my shoulder blades are kept, the less sore my chest will be. I think the chest just becomes less involved and the lift becomes more shoulder and tri dominant

Your videos are so useful

So from my understanding; you allow your shoulders to retract at the bottom so your elbows go straight down instead of rounding backwards.

I liked this video, and it does highlight some of the false info that we have grown accustomed to. However, the stability and efficiency we get from retracted scapula is very real. Also, the muscles that retract the scapula and offer this rigidity are not working in opposition to the pecs. As long as we know how to properly retract or pinch our shoulder blades together, we can create a solid and stable shoulder girdle for which our pecs can press from, and it will not impede the primary movers of the bench press.

I'm no expert by any means but I don't think anyone wants to tell you you are right or you are wrong. If you are an experienced lifter you may receive this information in a way that would have you perceive that what you are saying is wrong but too a beginner this information is perfect. It's just like Q's. I can tell someone to sit back on their heels and it will help them push with their midfoot/hold foot I could tell someone else the same thing and it could f****** their whole squat. You have very good content keep doing what you're doing you rock. Nothing you said was wrong. But like I said some people might take it as wrong because they're not perceiving it the way that you're explaining it.

cant wait for the guide. Thank you!

2:05 close grip. I concur with. Wide grip will snap your rotator cuffs. Yes it has its place but in moderation.

I agree. It never made sense to me to squeeze my shoulder blades together. It feels very unnatural and is distracting. Thanks for this

Retract your Shoulder Blades. its a must do set up movement for Benching safely and other benefits..

Makes sense because whenever I tried to unnaturally retract my shoulders it just felt so weird.

Not directly related, but I've seen some people retract and lock their scapulae when doing pull ups, horizontal rows and even biceps/triceps movements. Their argument being if you lock your shoulderblades, that takes the shoulder structure out of the movement, letting you better isolate your back, biceps or whatever it is you're trying to hit. Is this accurate?

Where does the idea that rhomboids and upper traps being antagonistic to the pec major come from? Pec major works across the GH joint with no scapular attachments whereas rhomboids and traps work across the scapulothoracic with no huneral attachments. They dont influence each other in a direct way and arent truely antagonistic afaik.

Follow this guy's advice and bye bye shoulders 😘😘

Actively retracting the scapula engages muscles that reciprocally inhibit the pecs... it makes ZERO sense to keep these muscles consciously engaged. It is ideal to have a starting position where your scapula are "down and back" with your serratus muscle engaged, which is assisted by the lats as a stabilizer, but of any of the muscles to focus on keeping locked in, it would be the Lats and the Serratus. If you can FEEL this area of the body stabilizing the bench press, then you are pushing from a good foundation. There is no need to squeeze any of your scapula retracting muscles.

Nice video! Very helpful. Thank you!!

I found retracting my shoulder blades actually caused an impingement, so , when I set up and get super tight and pull the bat out my shoulder blades naturally pull thereselves downward rather that tucking them and fighting the lift

Just what I needed. Thank you

Always good to keep an open mind give it a good try if works keep it if you don't like it stop but at least let's give it a shot

This is so specific and helpful!

I think you don't know what you're talking about. When scapula is in retraction it helps your rotator cuff to work better and prevent injury due to very small space inside your shoulder allowing rotator cuff structure to move.

My shoulders always hurt from benching pressing with a retracted scapula. But when I stopped retracting my scapula my shoulders doesn't hurt anymore. (but I still depress my scapula but I do not retract it)

Scapular retraction is to keep your shoulders from going into protraction or trying to keep your elbows from flaring too much in efforts to keep the rotator cuffs safe. Although, you bring up some great points I think retraction is necessary

*emotional response

This is interesting. I've been having shoulder issues ever since I got my power rack early this year. tons of clicking and popping, especially while trying to bench. I kinda assumed that my shoulders are bad and that i need to perfect my setup and do a lot of rotator cuff work. I can sometimes get a fairly click free set if I'm super tight and everything is in the perfect position. But I do wonder if I'm also just pulling things ouf of position. When I went to the gym as a teen I just benched and did everything poorly but had no issues. Now while I'm trying the hardest to do everything correctly I have the most issues. I had a crappy smith machine before and I dont think I had any shoulder issues. I just pushed the bar. It wasn't until I got my rack and tried to bench 'legit'. And now If I dont pull my shoulders back they are even worse. But I feel like I had no issues before.

Excellent video thank you:)

Excellent video! It's been difficult for me to "not" cue retracting the shoulders. I have just been focusing now on leg drive, and trying to have chest "reach the ceiling" without really focusing hard on retracing the shoulders, and like you mentioned not really purposely protracting the shoulders either.

I have less should pain when i keep my shoulders retracted throughout the whole movement.

Finally someone in powerlifting pointing out this. Should have told Matt Wenning as well.

Huh your the first person I’ve seen workout with vivo barefoot shoes I love using those especially for deadlifts

I start with them retracted and let them protract near lockout to shift the load to my shoulders. I think starting with a flat back under near maximum loads is a very bad idea because literally every person I've ever seen destroy their shoulders starts their bench with a flat back.

12:55 this is exactly why I won't stop doing this. 95% of people that have ever worked out do the arm spin thing or grab a rack and turn to stretch (neither as a warmup, but already in pain) or just straight up say "my shoulder is not feeling too good today". Not me 👌Could've just summed it up as legs stabilize you, and not having novice lifters thinking of trashing back cues

1:51 thinking about bending the bar helped with activating my lats.

My left quad always cramps when doing bench press 😂

Traps and rhomboids pull the arms back, in shoulder extension? No, they just retract the scapula. The traps and rhomboids are not antagonistic to the pressing muscles. The last, biceps, and rear delts are antagonistic.

I read somewhere (Mark Rippetoe?) that spreading the bar will help 'load the lats' on the descent. Kind of like a spring, it will assist in a recoil like effect during the ascent.

I agree with the idea that obsession with protraction during the lift may be a problem. I retract my shoulder blades and squirm a lot during my set up in order to get into optimum position to unrack, but I've never had an issue at all with having to squirm around to keep the position once I've unracked. Two times I've developed shoulder issues from benching have both been from being unstable after unracking, and protracting shoulder blades has massively helped with that. I guess if I'm doing higher reps my upper back loses tightness, but I've never really thought about.

Looking forward to your guide. Subscribed.

I will try to keep my chest up but over all always ignored this idea

No one has ever told me to ever press my shoulders down into the bench… will try.

Hit 95kg and 2 weeks later injured my shoulder and chest due to ego and bad form since i was to excited to get stronger I decided to bench 90kg when my right shoulder was injured to bad form and struggling to retract

Personally I like to think about rowing the bar down, but afterwards on the way up, I don't use that cue anymore, so I never have the problem with my shoulders. I never think about my shoulders during the bench

Hmm, refocussing my bracing has actually helped my shoulder a lot. I do feel like if I lose depression and retraction, my shoulder lets me know about it. However, I do mainly focus on it on the way down, so I may have subconsciously been doing this

My understanding was its to put the shoulders in a favorable position (range of motion)

I disagree! The wobbly uneven shoulders thing is coming from different mobility issues in the shoulders. Less internal rotation in one and more external in the other creating and uneven pressing pattern. I’ve benched both ways and retracting my shoulders completely eliminates shoulder pain. Furthermore, retraction has increased my bench allowing me to use my triceps more which are stronger than my pecs. I’ve benched 325 weighing 165lbs. Utilizing an arch and retracted shoulders.

I overretracted for years and now I'm dealing with shoulder pain that refuses to go away. I only get it during horizontal pressing though. Vertical & dips are fine for some reason. My right side is stuck in, what feels like, a constantly retracted state, so much that my right arm is visible "shorter" (not actual length, but because of the retraction) than my left. This is now my resting position. I can't contract my chest properly without feeling a tremendeous amount of tension in my shoulder, and doing the bench press motion with just my arms hurt. Not sure what to do either. Focusing on more movement of the shoulder blades does not seem to help. Stretching is so frowned upon nowadays that I haven't even bothered with it. PT's in my small town are horrible and doesn't understanding lifting. Their advice is always "stop lifting" essentially.

Yeah I agree with a lot of what you're saying.. I'm personally trying to be a Bodybuilder and I do somewhat care how much I can lift still haha, Seemingly though I have a Powerlifters approach to the bench press.. Although as I've tried switching it up and not overexaggerating an arch, gripping closer on the bar and not retracting my scapula as much It began to feel a lot more comfortable for me and in turn my shoulders had less/no pain and the movement overall felt more natural AND my chest felt far more engaged on top of that.

I have gotten repetitive pec tendinopathy from trying to stay so retracted on my bench. It creates a lot of tension at the pec insertion when I'm overly retracted and over time it flares up. I think focusing more on thoracic extension (in conjunction with leg drive) and staying relatively depressed in the scapula has helped me stay in "position" without the shoulder issues. The cue for retraction 100% came from equipped side. When I was new into the KZfaq fitness community about 5 years ago and digging into proper technique, Mark Bell was one of the more popular guys and always talked about squeezing a coin between your shoulder blades. He clearly came from the geared powerlifting side of things.

Switch to dumbbells and see how much stability you actually have in your torso.