Hey! Is something like Nobara OS present for ubuntu/debian?

Been a while since I have used Apt so I have to ask. Can Apt install Pacman onto Debian, or is it only for Arch?

Please talks about accessible in Linux World Screen Reader and tools for low vision users

@@sagegeas5198 I think you can, but it's more like;y to break stuff. This Nala thing seems like a better solution

​@Jack Warner had issues too but managed with pacstall

True, but FOR THE ALGORITHM!

@@ChrisTitusTech algorithm!!!

Apt is a really great system, so is dnf. But then the Linux distros reinvented Dependency Hell. Now there are so many packages and interrelated dependencies that the whole system bogs down.

That’s kind of like saying: “use machine code correctly with C/C++.” The whole point of C/C++ is to avoid needing to work directly with assembly / machine code.

KZfaqr moment

I do use Ansible to automate the patching on my servers. I may give Nala try on my workstation PC.

Which distro are you talking about ? The only distro which have changed it's package manager is redhat with first rpm, yum and then dnf. But debian also changed from dpkg to apt. And other distros like arch gentoo alpine openSUSE or even void never changed package managers

@@ioneocla6577 Mostly Redhat and it's derivatives. SuSE changed at some point I believe. I used Mandrake and whatever they renamed themselves to, but I honestly don't remember why I quit using it. I just never liked pacman on Arch. And then there's emerge on Gentoo... that was a total nightmare. I didn't try Debian before apt came along.

That seems like a weird thing to be a dealbreaker for you, i've never thought of package managers as some ultimate reason i would pick a distro, generally i can learn a new package manager very quickly and easily, when i'm working on my VMs i typically use fedora's DNF and arch's pacman, but my host system is ubuntu.

@@ioneocla6577 not really. Dpkg is a lower level program than apt, which acts as a front end to dpkg

I always thought that APT was one of the best things about Debian or at least the principle of it for Linux. Interesting that there is something better.

I love and have always used aptitude. This nala does indeed sound like it has some nice improvments. Not that it matters for me, as I am now a Garuda Linux user. But interesting stuff nonetheless!

I must be a noob. I still use apt but sometimes i prefer Synaptic Package Manager

@@moto083c Nothing wrong using synaptic. I love synaptic and that's actually the best way to install and uninstall things. synaptic offer many things. Snapshot of the app and the developer webpage and even location and dependencies.

​@@wayland7150 Well yes. APT is a set of tools and libraries for dpkg supporting dpkg-deb (the actual package manager) using various front-ends like apt, apt-get, aptitude, synaptic, ... and now also nala.

Xubuntu supports this?

The problem I run into is that Debian release cadence is so slow that I can't do what I want to do with the software. Mostly because the functionality either doesn't exist, relies on a library which is too new, or all the guides are for a version that's only 2 years old, while Stable's version is 4 years old. It also sucks when doing an upgrade since the likelihood of major broken changes is much greater. Really, I would rather Debian name stable "LTS" and have a 6-12 month release of testing.

Or you install fresh systems fairly often

The issues are with arch's bleeding edge nature. Not Pacman itself

@@ioneocla6577 I've had far fewer issues with arch than with debian-based distros. Installing something that requires recent versions of libraries on debian is a massive pain and clobbered my install several times. Granted, this was many years ago, maybe they've got some sort of solution for that now, but I no longer care. Arch rarely causes problems and never causes insoluble problems provided you have sufficient clue. I mean I don't actually recall a problem that either arch or pacman caused me, and it's been years now. From time to time I have to get around some dependency cycles with aur packages, which takes not long at all unless the upstream isn't well-maintained or developed on old crud like debian and won't compile with, say, new gcc. Then it takes a bit longer if I care (and gets those projects patches) or 0 if I don't and remove them. Maybe I would care if I were running on a potato and didn't want to compile (ie SBCs), but there's plenty of -bin packages available for heavy things and I don't have to deal with repo hell to use them. The fact that there's more than likely a pkgbuild in aur for something you want to install that you can edit from if you want a custom build ensures that pretty much everything I've got on my system is properly package-managed. Back in the days of using debian on desktop and RHEL on servers I had no end of issues with that. I can see people who can't evaluate if recent kernel changes might break something for them possibly having an issue (I haven't personally), but that's what -lts versions are for if that's your thing. It used to be part of my job to package our kernel and several userspace packages with rpm in the good old linux-2.4 days (primarily because no one could - or pretended they couldn't - figure out how to package my cluster/failover stuff correctly so it'd start in a known and expected condition) for an appliance product. I remember searing pain. Thankfully, that's all I remember and all I have to remember. Thank you Arch.

This 'robust' system clobbered a rather straightforward dist upgrade. This was in the late 00's I think. All I had was X11, windowmake, and a full dev environment for kernel dev on console. Boom, completely clobbered. If I wanted to use an OS where a re-install is easier than a fix, I had plenty of better options.

Just be thankful that you're not emerging the @world and dealing with circular dependency holes and use flags to wait a day on a browser to compile in a source based distro. It gets far worse than apt or pacman. Though I must say we are overdue an apt upgrade. yum got dnf in the server distro world which helped out a lot with some of the problems caused by apache pear modules and production backend software like whm got even more reliable with the switch to dnf. Dnf helped where it mattered in the server world so I hope to see more apt solutions even if it's just a wrapper for now.

xbps is super fast too, probably faster than pacman

The problem with apt is they haven't updated their frontend or added things like delta updates, parallel downloading, etc that other package managers have.

Can I filter packages if do not want to download them with nala?

Actually, the problem is that the Debian echosystem was quite perfectly designed at the beginning, where other distributions took ages to get seemless upgrades, configuration management, diversions. I don't even know if they even have diversions for example. Now, however, the world is changing where people won't upgrade a system for 20 years (like I did), but are reinstalling every day or so Docker containers. In that context, apt is slow and you don't need configuration management, nor diversions, nor seemless upgrades. So, Nala is good news anyway.

@@ChristopherGray00 Delta updates have not been more efficient for some time. They were great back in the days of dial up internet. But with high speed internet, the time you gain by downloading deltas rather than full packages is lost with the time it takes to apply the deltas compared to replacing whole files. The parallel downloading is an effective speedup.

@@ChristopherGray00 From my testing, on the same machine, with the same 1.5 Gbps connection, installing Fedora/RHEL packages with yum/dnf/whatever is usually *slower* than using apt, even though yum/dnf/whatever has all those great things enabled such as delta updates and parallel downloading.Generally speaking, the speed argument to me is kinda the worst one because differences today are measured in seconds, which is completely inconsequential. Upgrades of packages on production machines are rarely done anyway and they are planned so you usually don't care about how long the download lasts, you want the thing to go through without issues. On desktops, most modern apt based distributions (including Debian) have apt running in a background as sort of a cron job, constantly downloading packages and upgrading them as well, if that is allowed. The only other scenario is when you want to install something new, and then we get back to my previous point of complaining about a time difference measured in seconds (if the difference actually exists).

I like what you’re writing here and agree.

This, I don’t get how you can have anything against apt. It’s probably one of the nicest systems ever. I still use apt in combination with flatpack as I like to keep most on stable but still have an up to date and sandboxed browser

I don't see the point of this comment

Hear hear! I started using Debian in -96 I think, coming from many years running SunOS, NonStop and BSD and I think I giggled the first time I used apt-get because how simple and informative it was! I mean just download everything from available mirrors? Updates? Searching with apt-cache was just the icing on the cake and it's been taking care of all my installs and updates ever since. I don't mind scripts that provides better information - or present the information better, but in the end of the day it's all just lipstick on a pig and no front end script will make things faster since it's running the same operations in the background... I do love things like htop instead of top since it provides better and more data so even us old dogs like eye candy IF it does things better, but usually I prefer the simpler route and after 30+ years running UNIX/Linux one of the few things that didn't need improvement is the apt interface to dpkg. It just works!

​​@@JensAndree I see your htop and raise you btop since bookworm I think in stable and it's pretty neat I have to say. But I agree fully that you don't have to have the shiniest new thing. Never thought apt has a problem.

Ok? then bye. Lmao

Damn, now I miss Windows 10 updates. I wish my Arch had those...

@@spicynoodle7419 I always assumed Arch users need to be literate.

@@Alias_Anybody I'm literate in shitposting :^)

I HATE Linux and the way it handles stuff! With Windows my CPU was constantly having 100% usage and system freezes, but after installing Linux it's always sitting at ~1%! Because of Linux my CPU has become lazy and it's almost always not doing anything!!!!

In RHEL 9 all the last use cases for yum have been perged. If you use yum now in RHEL 9 it's just a symbolic link to dnf. So DNF is good enough for enterprise I'm sure it's going to get even better

I Hope. After trying Pacman (arch) or xbps(void) dnf and apt are just soooooo slow

When is apt going to be replaced or modernized, that's the real question. It really needs a revamp.

@@ioneocla6577 not just slow, also confusing tbh

@@chrismcdonaldracingrhel 8 also has dnf, rhel 7 has yum

@@igorfoxly2555 👍

upgrade-system

@@perkelix I didn't know about this command! Does it make something special than the others?

"If God wanted man to have GUIs, He would have given us Xerox PARC!" Commodore Magic Desk and GEOS enter the chat...Hi guys and gals! Let's talk about the REAL first GUI!

Me too, the man created git, this is child play for him, I was also wondering what does he do with steam then you reminded me.

That sounds like hell on earth not gonna lie, i'm happy that modern package managers have evolved so far from that.

@@ChristopherGray00 or it could be like appimages where every software comes with every dependency

@@ChristopherGray00 it was lol

a complete lack of understanding of what the actual problems are that apt was intended to solve everything has always "just worked"

Whenever I land on my new favorite 'daily driver' Linux Distro, CTT comes up with content to make me think I just chose the wrong Distro! Arch, no wait Fedora, no wait Debian! Thanks Chris!

@@rsadix1 hahah valid point!

Equivalent for windows is freeware and repo is /Downloads and the package is .exe installer

Apk is as fast as light but alpine itself isn't really usable as an everyday OS

I agree. I like Pop‘s impementation and workflow but am not a fan of apt. I personally enjoy Void‘s xbps and Gentoo‘s emerge the most

As a fan of apt over yum... I think pacman is the best

I been on fedora since core days in early 2000s to the best of my knowledge I had yum 9nce purge my system years and years ago from a bug that was fixed pretty quick. DNF has been rock solid

@@chrismcdonaldracing The one gripe I have with dnf is that "dnf search" doesn't tell you which of the packages it finds are already installed. Other than that it's great.

@@QuotePilgrim this, so annoying, but you can always check dnf list

@@QuotePilgrim really it doesn't? I have never used it but there should be some -option that can be used to filter them out no? If it really doesn't then check if it has the ability to view all installed packages and write a script to filter those out from the search maybe idk really inefficient but that's what i can think off the top of my head.

@@Gurj101 listing all installed packages is possible, of course (dnf list installed), but the list of results "dnf search" gives you won't tell if any of the packages it finds is already installed, and there's no option to make it do so. All I've found was other people complaining about this behavior, and apparently there's a many years old request for that feature that the devs set to low priority.

Yes, I checked this too. It is in official Debian repos for bookworm (stable) and newer releases, though the 3rd-party-repo might still be useful for older releases like bullseye (oldstable). It is also in the official Ubuntu repos: regularly since lunar (23.04), but also for the current LTS release 22.04 via the jammy-backports repo.

lmfao

LMFAOOO

If you don't get that right when you install it's very difficult to fix it later. I used a ready made VM from Source Forge, bloody thing was set to Germany making it very hard to type. I got it sorted eventually but it was hit and miss and I did so many things I don't know what fixed it.

@@wayland7150 In my case, it's Kubunttu install. Everything was fine on install, it was when I changed some lauguage and regional settings on Plasma (date/currency display) that things went wrong.

@@theodoros_1234 Yeah, if it goes wrong it's really hard to correct manually. Unfortunately there are a number of things in Linux that work fine out of the box but if you break it or your pet walks over your keyboard can be very hard to fix.

Thank you, this comment saved me 10 minutes. Every video should have this.

Thank you for the summary!

this vid is just driven by hate to apt (as he clearly said at 3:30)

Maybe "hate" is a strong word for this, but I understand what you say.

@@_VeritasVosLiberabit_ considering how "hate" is (mis)used for anything barely resembling dislike or even just critique these days, in reality it's not that of a strong word anymore ... but I understand what you say a.k.a. this doesn't mean I like or defend this trend :] just being real.

Chris has a pretty killer and modern machine. I mean, truly new, with a 5 series Ryzen (not Ryzen 5, but 5000 series). Saying he's doing an "injustice" pointing out the bad things of something that is old because it's what you used first, is silly and totally subjective. For that matter, everyone should say everything else other than Windows 95 is bad. Which would be silly too, wouldn't it.

@@LautaroQ2812 Wouldn't disagree with you, but for me the average user, APT is enough... I want to use Debian as light as possible, no need for an additional package manager (including Snapd)... and I don't mind waiting the extra (30sec)... At the end of the day, I'm just an average home user... not running a mission critical software center; that needs every possible calculated second, and if I were I wouldn't be running Debian-based systems in the first place!

No, no, Vista was a steaming pile of shit. Why do you think 7 came along so quickly?

Stupidly simple, except for the fact that the syntax doesn't make sense. Like sudo pacman -s kitty. Why is the syntax a '-s' to install a program?

@@FBHSswimmer2006 sync kitty to what is present on the repository

@@FBHSswimmer2006 Isn't it faster written than sudo apt-get install juvenile hart-melting carnivorous mammal?

@@FBHSswimmer2006 s stands for sync. instead of typing 10 letters for an action you type `1

@±¹4²4²⁰𝟵⁹⁶𝟵²whatsapp me 👈 Holy shit, these spam bots even got Chris now! Go away you pesky bots!

Most serious content creators hate it. But they don't (and neither does Chris) make the rules, they just play by them. As shit as it is they have to do this, if they play with the algorithm, their video gets to more people. Not only for the views but also for the information they are trying to provide. It is what it is, and it's something minuscule if you think of the content Chris makes vs some sellout "prankster", for example.