It also has a single player campaign: Squandered 42. Original planned release date: 2016.

​@@tabchanzero8229 Wasn't there a "standalone but not really" type of deal FPS game somewhere as well? Or was Squandered it? I can't remember anymore, so much bs.

​@LoneWanderer905 Yes, that's Squadron 42. Supposed to be in the polish phase right now, but I doubt it. They've done this marketing song and dance before, it's never coming out

It's not, no one is buying that that hasn't already spent that amount. You can melt old pledges for store credit and apply that to nearly anything else, the only thing you can't use store credit for is physical merch. Also, CIG has a tracker for how much you've spent. The $48k package isn't being bought with new money, and was asked for by the backers themselves lol.

​@MrRoblcopter cope

@@Zenith_Star69 Wasn't aware that making sure the information was correct was "coping." Also, get a better argument than "cope," it's weak.

@@MrRoblcopter i feel like minimizing people spend 48k at all in one game is kind of crazy

@@MrRoblcopter what other game do we defend dropping a fraction of 48k on?

They invented macro transactions

Mega transactions

thats a car transaction

to be fair you can have an absolute blast playing this game with friends.

It's the same ships you can just buy in-game and only for people who want to continue to fund the development of both games.

And it's almost entirely useless and only a select few buy it lol. The community itself asked CIG to offer it as a package. Idk if people realize this, but there are a LOT of old dudes who play this game. Running into some 50yr old is not uncommon. Some of them have a metric butt-ton of "fun money" to spend. SC is their hobby. Just like some buy a classic car to work on, these guys buy a massive package of ships + a sim pit setup for their PC.

MEGAtransaction.. macro still seems too small.

Its a donation to the development. Would you be happier if they simply had a paypal link open to any amount and hide what people might get as rewards or get nothing at all?

And people want to bitch about $10 microtransaction. SC has fostered a cult of sunken cost fallacy fanatics. I much rather have entrusted this game to rockstar and give them money. At least they would have made the game and we would have been playing it for at least three-five years by now.

@@MagiofAsura Since they can milk people indefinitely in SC with these low shelf-life P2W items as it is now, why bother finishing it? They've literally got enough money that they could pay the people they need to get this thing done with *everything* they promised by now. After all, the game's been available for playtesting for like a decade and has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for development in that time, but what does the game do right now? Yeah..

I wish I had his speech level fr

So the smartest person you've ever heard speak is.... Pirate Software?

@@Xfacta12482 That isn't what they said.

Just listen more and plan discourses before you even consider speaking anything

@@MrMontanaNights ik but just hearing that he's the most well spoken human he's ever heard speak is just a lil weird lol

Even if it’s over a period of 12 years with 700+ devs across 4 countries? $700 million is frankly not that great especially when Genshin Impact makes more than a billion dollars in a year (2.8 billion in 2022).

gta6 = 2bil

your logic is flawed, especially if you haven't followed development, period.

this argument is ignorant because what you call "Star citizen" is really two games, star citizen, and squadron 42. Squadron 42 is "feature complete" and undergoing polish. Star Citizen will never be complete because it is a live service game. 300 mil for a game is high, but it's not that high, I guarantee your average blizzard game is way more than that when you include marketing. Starcraft 2 was 250 mil all the way back in like 2011. I swear, no matter what that company does, people who say dumb stuff about it. Meanwhile people will just play and enjoy it no matter how many people scream 'scam'

people forget that CIG did not exist at the start of this project. that 700 million has paid all the developers and all of the administrative costs to start an actual game studio and self publisher without allowing evil outside interest like EA/Ubi/take2 etc to get their grubby mits on it and gut the idea. Look at what happened to Kerbal space program 2. take 2 fucked it raw and now its getting canceled. We will be lucky if they sell the rights and assets to some other studio to finish at this point.

Lots of people are stuck in a cycle of coping with buyers remorse, getting fomo, and buying in more to the bullshit.

They like him. They like Star Citizen. He dislikes a fundamental aspect of Star Citizen. They have to resolve the conflict and he is the only one they can potentially change, but the alternative is admitting yoir opinion of one of the two has to change.

Star Citizen it's not a game, it's a cult

Star Citizen interests me (have spent $0 and it will stay at that value until 1.0). What worries me the most is the toxic community. Even if the game does come out, even if it's great .. I suspect the community will ruin it.

​@@steampunkskunk3638Communities are not toxic. People are. Its human nature. It happens naturally and you cant really stop it.

They make more money every year. It's crazy. I started following it in 2018. It's crazy how they cycle through excuses. They've been saying oh all the work is going into Squadron 42. That's why the progress is slow. But SQ42 is nowhere to be seen. I don't think it even exists. I think at the end of the day Chris Roberts is going to jail. It's all a fraud. When it goes bankrupt people will spill the beans.

Tbf there is SOME nuance. Examples: In Hunt Showdown, hunter skins are cosmetic only.. but they can give you a slight advantage by way of some being more camouflaged than others. In Warframe, you can technically gain an advantage over a non-paying player by buying what are effectively progression skips. There's also convenience purchases too like extra stash tabs, which is briefly mentioned in the video but not gone into in enough depth imo. I'm sure there are more examples one could think of as well.

@jehree9850 I don't think stash tabs give you any advantage. Probably hurts most players as they waste time picking up low value items. PoE is not a game where you should be picking up lots of stuff. Unless that is fun for you. It's not efficient. I bought some eventually just to support the game. But I played for years without.

@@jehree9850 there's not really any nuance but more standardized terms being misunderstood. Anything that gives an advantage is not actually cosmetic. "Cometic microtransaction" was coined during a period where skins that didn't provide any advantage were being sold in single player games and online games (mainly mobile games) sold stat boosts. Like you mentioned player Skins in any PvP provide an advantage if that's being harder to see, obscuring the hitbox, or making it more difficult to know what character is being played (in games with different abilities).

100% this. I already paid to play your game. Why would I pay AGAIN to STOP playing? That's like paying for a pizza, then paying again for a trashcan to throw it away!

Yeah because if this alpha is about testing mechanics, why the hell would you pay wall the only way to access it to test? Pay wall the mining ship behind a $80 paywall. Yeah that makes sense. Itll make for a great test

That sounds like something Steph Sterling has said. And even if she hasn't, it absolutely fits with the stuff she says.

​@@MagiofAsura Because they growd fund the game and they arent paywalling anything.. You buy a starter back and thats all you need. Farm ingame credits and get the ships you like, like a mining ship. If you like the game and the direction it is going then you can choose to support them more by funding the developement and as a backer you get a ship as a bonus

This is exactly what I was thinking, you're going to pay more money to not play part of a game? Must not be a fun game then.

Yes they will, because it's created to last for decades.

​@@TruthIsKey369yes, the scam will last decades, it will never be released or finished.

Well you can play it right now in the meantime.

@@TruthIsKey369 🤡🤡🤡

Sorry, you will not be able to transfer your license to them in your will.

I'd like one I heard good things

"There's no 'there' there."

Worse, we have people going "sheesh, all these dummys not using their brains!" as if they aren't the dummys in question.

@@crushycrawfishy1765 oh no am I the dummy 😭

I think it’s people who actually think that the company needs more money to make the game. They genuinely believe that if they don’t spend $48,000 on the game, the game won’t come out, and all the money they’ve spent on the game will have been for nothing and they won’t get to play the game. It’s sunk cost + fomo + hero complex. And the company actively foments that toxic mindset.

But how is there a pop up with amkunt of cash to pay before?

Instead of health he has money amount. You killit by paying. Amazing.

even better, make it near impossible to beat. like u gotta be a godlike tier player in order to do it even with the best weapons, and then it takes 30 min, but during those 30 min give it several even tons of phases, so it feels like a true ultra boss. 100 different mechanics , new phase each 3 min, within those 3min new mechanics, each time . crazyy ultimate boss. Then paid nerf at 5 % per 10 $ I would never pay the nerf, but would be funny to see u can pay to nerf the boss, but in doing so, you also get put on a leader board for being a noob. XD This game would kinda be the same as other games, that are 'impossible to beat' like u get pissed cuz u slowly but steadily reach the next phase, but die at least 100 times before u finish the boss.. and make one phase ,special that you must die by his one mechanic or his next one fully kills u , make this one noticable by a color or something. instead of parry, you need to take the hit and die, then u enter new phase with boss and yayayaa something happens. Could be like, Phase - 12 the boss does a cool animation and let out the words, death by sword , hungers your soul - ( take the hit to survive next phase ) but the best part is , people not gonna understand until prob death count 50. just leave good hints in room, or a note of fallen soldier, that x phase surviving by this that. is crucial XD i need make game someday fck, my animation so bad tho XD

​@@Enryo-then go the diablo immortal way, and make it drop 1.2 legendary loot or whatever max level loot there would be, by paid nerf. And not drop any if those if you didn't

@@skiadrum9029 nah, better to just make souls like , and not diablo popmortal

Elite launched, lived and died while star suckisen was and is to this day and for the goreseeable future, in beta. Roberts is an ambitious dumbass xD

E:D was released December 2014, almost ten years ago...

ED also doesn't provide much in the department of in-game advantages. It only has a way to speed up obtaining cosmetics (as far as I know)

​@@ktheveg Elite Dangerous has started selling ships for real money that don't cost anything in-game to respawn when they get destroyed. In-game currency is really easy to get so this is minor, but it's still a statistical advantage. It's pay-to-win lite.

SC was never going to be a direct competitor to E:D. They were two very different games even then. The CIG CEO even encouraged Star Citizen backers to help out the then-failing Kickstarter campaign, and again made a post when they launched linking to their store page..

"They also managed to make an MMO that looks substantially better than Star Citizen....." I don't believe you, because it's very biased, but hey, that's subjectivity for you.

@@TruthIsKey369 I’m not saying Star Citizen looks bad, but because they’re spread so thin; no one aspect is particularly groundbreaking. EVE can spend all of the graphical overhead on just ships and space, the result of that is excellent graphical fidelity

I think what excuses EVE is more the asymetrical warfare aspect. Even if you pay through the nose and get a Titan, that means nothing if you have no friends to properly defend it. The knowledge aspect you mentioned is also true, but imho its a lesser effect, unless you consider the corps meta part of the knowledge. In comparison, Star Citizen just red flags all over the place: from eternally unfinished game mechanics, 45k$ "exclusive" packs designed to fomo players, the 20 year roadmap... if it was just one thing I think people could look the other way (Tarkov is a good example of eternal beta). But its just too many things that add up to what Thor describes as "gross".

There's enough isk sink to offset p2w injectors, but the SP advantage matters way less than player experience in eve. The annoying things are the increased sub prices(its like what almost 20 euro a month now) and the game encourages alt accounts which mean even more subs. The PLEX inflation has gotten craaaazy over the years.

Ah yes, EVE Online released in 2003 by a developer founded in 1997 with first Crucial and now with Atari as Publisher to foo the marketing bill. And 66 million $ of revenue in 2023. 300mil projected lifetime revenue. Dev costs ~30-70mil in 2003 money. (Not including marketing) And a subscription model... so yeah "free" expansions... suure. Bet that against Star Citizen, first studio founded in 2010, development started in 2012/13, trying to firstly make an AAA quality single-player campaign with Hollywood actors akin to GTA 5, which had only a cast of not even that many A-class actors as Squadron42 has. (114 A-class actors in SQ42 plus additional voices, 23 "A-class" actors in GTA5 - 1022 cast in total) Many offices not existing at that time like Frankfurt, or the UK Office where at Stagecraft, Motion Capture shooting took place. Which now just about is a decade in "development". And an MMO portion which just now begins ramping up production. Bet that against GTA5, released in 2013 by Rockstar Games, an established game studio founded in 1998 with Take-Two interactive as Publisher. Development started around 2008 from the earliest reports by shooting first scenes (so clearly even earlier with script development) And $7.7 billion in total revenue from literal creditcards as microtransactions, Dev cost around 265m, including marketing ~$500mil not clear. (in 2010 money) StarCitizen hadn't even cracked 100 mil at that time. GTA6 has $2.2 billion allocated for development by Take-Two and from the Game-Scope you think that's larger or smaller than what Star Citizen is trying to do? But your comparison with EVE has one true point, all that you can buy with real-money as an arguable advantage, If not "pay-to-loose" aspect. Since with complete persistence and without wipes in SC, people would lose their ships completely if destroyed or stolen and one cannot operate one by themselves. You are just a defenseless turtle out in space.

Yeah I lost a bit of respect for thor when he showed such obvious bias. "Well it's okay if the game I like does it."

There are few things as to why Warframe gets a bit of pass on these issues. First is, that it is not competitive game but instead Coop PvE game (RIP Lunaro and Arena). So if one player in your group bought maxed out rivens with prime warframe and prime weapon and some good mods, it is not to your detriment. Second thing is that different warframes are for the most part only sidegrades to each other instead of upgrades. So overall I do not care if you can buy some particular frames when I can still wrack havoc with whatever I have. Which ties to another thing and that is that by buing things, you are not skipping progression. Its not as if you can suddenly do missions twice as fast as before. You are skiping the grind for getting particular frames/weapons that you want. But that has no effect on you actualy playing the game. It just allows you to change the flavor of the way you are playing sooner rather than later. And last but not least, at least from my personal experience, the game loop and grind itself actualy feels good enough that I was not incentivized into buying stuff to skip it. The grind for things is litteraly the same game loop that I would be playing even if I was not grinding for things. Whether you buy any frame or not, the moment you start playing various missions, you will be grinding for lot of frames/weapons anyway (for example in form of random relic drops). So the incentive to buy it, the fomo to get it asap, its just is not really there.

@@AbjectIndication-we5fz he very clearly said this is only an issue in PvP games, Warframe is 95% PvE with tacked on PvP that few people use. Most players would consider Warframe to be a PvE game imo.

You can skip the grind to build items in the game, but you can't skip the level grind. You still have to level your frames and weapons to get higher mastery levels

@@hipunpun does your back hurt from all those mental gymnastics you're doing?

help I invested in my future by going to university, but I haven't been able to sell my degree for a profit to anyone! Sometimes, people use words non-literally. Like whenever someone says literally and they mean figuratively. Most peopel don't show up to parties and say "ACKSHULEY you don't mean literally". We accept it as a turn of phrase.

CIG has never approved of the grey market, they wont go as far as to ban people from using grey market websites/reddit, but they clearly dont approve of it, combined with the lack of an actual CIG owned and operated marketplace for players to sell their ships to other people, its clear that CIG doesn't think its an investment (since investment opportunity kind of requires some way to at least have a chance to make a profit)

@@ParaquatSC your example is bad; university is considered an investment because you spend time and money to learn skills that then presumably qualify you for better jobs than you could otherwise be hired for.

@@1337Koios Sure, but it's still an alternate to the usage of "investment" that literally refers to a stock or security.

@@ParaquatSC From Webster's dictionary: the outlay (expenditure) of money usually for income or profit Investment doesnt refer only to stocks or securities; those are just common things to invest in. It's the same usage as when stating one is investing in one's future by pursuing higher education.

Lol and I bet that won't carry over to the conveniently announced smite 2, just like all the skins people spent time or money unlocking

@@OldSpaghettifactory89oh no, buying a game doesn’t get you the sequel for free! Anyway.

@FighterPilot72 Normally I’d agree with this but Smite 2 is literally just a visual upgrade being advertised as a new game

@@kyleglendinning9414 I’m pretty sure they’re doing the same $30 for every character forever for 2. COD sells a visual upgrade for $60/yr. On the other hand, valve managed to go from CSGO to CS2, for free, and keeping everyone’s cosmetics.

Finally!! One of the few people who recognize, that every tradable platinum has to be bought by someone with real money. Also, don't forget Slots. You have to buy slots with Plat.

Yep, same thing in Eve. Buying a tradable premium currency with in game money just means someone else paid for it with cash.

Except that those don't actually get you an advantage other than saving some time. Both reactors and catalysts can be built up over time, so it's only an issue if you insist on putting one on everything, and let's face it most weapons are MR fodder. Even slots can be built up over time, either through log in rewards or by getting duplicate rewards and selling them (every anniversary is effectively 3 free weapon slots, for example). Prime weapons are only slightly stronger than the standard versions, and only might matter in the cesspit that is Conclave. There's literally only 3 (4 if you count the Chinese exclusive) pieces of gear that were money only. Everything else is fully able to be acquired in game, given time (and luck). Yes, the platinum mostly has to come from real money, but there's no real, statistical advantage to buying things with platinum other than saving time (even if it's potentially a lot of time).

​@@patrickdix772 1. Saving time is one of the biggest advantages. You save a LOT of time, which you can use however you want. 2. Befor Nightwave Catalyst and Reactors where not that that simple to access. And even now it is still limited (although not as much as befor) Most things withouth a Catalyst or Reactor are not really viable over LVL 20-30 3. There are a LOT of good weapons which are not META. Playing only meta weapons and frames gets boring really fast. Also you kind of "need" a somewhat diverse inventory and loadouts for different mission types. Also, most non-meta weapons are viable, and to enjoy different builds you need slots. 4. Sure, you can get a few free slots "over time", but how long is this "over time" several YEARS. Slots from Log in Rewards are only obtainable after 1050 days, that means that's almost 3 YEARS of playing daily. So that's BS. Warframe is still relativly "fair" in it's model.

Can you define advantage for me? The most platinum is NEEDED for is Slots (Warframe, Weapon, Companion, etc.) other than that most items can be traded for or, at worst, meticulously farmed for. Primed warframes don't offer the high end benefits people say. My Nekros and Nekros Prime are practically identical minus 1 Forma because the primed variants have more polarities/low cost slots. Also, and I can't stress this enough, the game is PvE... What do you mean advantage?

As someone that loosely follows the project. The majority of the team was working on SQ42 up until recently after they announced it was feature complete last October and has entered the polish phase. Now those teams have been put on Star Citizen.

The initial stretch goals became obsolete when they took the community poll in 2015 to go all-out on feature scope for Persistent Universe and Single-Player campaign.

@@MrSpy13011 CIG have been saying SQ42 is in the polish phase since 2018. How is them saying it NOW any more believable ? Feature Complete does not mean CONTENT Complete - They are STILL working on SQ42 and they even stated that SQ42 is EPISODE 1... they are still going to be doing Episode 2 and 3. CIG are proven liars that have repeatedly mislead their backers into believing they are going to deliver something when they dont.

@@PR3DATOR490 that's objectively not true. They only announced it was in polish phase this past fall. If you're going to argue against it at least be accurate.

@@DamonLeonin Lies - Chris Roberts himself stated SQ42 was in the polishing phase and would be 18 months from being done in 2018. "Squadron 42: "we're now sort of on the downhill ramp. We're now 18 months away, looking like from when we have to be ready to release it" - Chris Roberts ATV, December 2018 How long ago was that 18 months ? - So how exactly are the going to release SQ42 if it is not already in the polishing phase ? You think think they will just push it out without polishing ? Nevermind the fact CIG have kicked the goalposts on SQ42 from 2014 all the way to 2024+ whenever it suited them but sure... THIS time they REALLY mean it !

Advanced wars is an example of that. It's a chill game until you find the niche AWBW community and it gets aggressive.

As a 2012 kickstarter backer, SQ42 was ALWAYS a stretch goal.

@@ParaquatSC This is a lie. The KS is still up. Go read it and prove me wrong.

Not really so sure about that, on their kickstarter pages they did promote SQ 42 as a way to play offline. But they also promised good VR support and that is also broken for a long while now. They did also release a SQ42 trailer on their Kickstarter page. It was also the reason I bought a $40 package. I won't spend any more.

The SQ42 you will get now will be above and beyond what you would get "2 years later". Which should make you a happy camper and worth atleast DOBBEL what you put in.

@@TruthIsKey369 yeah or it is gimped because they want you to play store citizen. We'll see when it releases.

IMO it's pay to play. You don't get more advantage to buying more stash tabs after you have ~$40 of them, and the advantage of $40 over $20 is just convenience. It's effectively a $40 game with a unlimited free trial period.

If it does, I actually don't think it will even be that big. I believe the vast majority of people who would get it, already have put their money in. I could see a scenario where it launches, and most people stop buying ships because they can finally play with the many ships they've already bought. Due to the dramatic loss of revenue, it eventually goes to a monthly subscription.

Hey, sorta long time sc player here, only the nut jobs call it investments, everyone else calls it a purchace/pledge

@@TrueJacket i mean its an investment if you can flip it to somebody else later on

​@@SkyForceOne2those people are idiots, the rest of us are funding a game and we know it

@@LuckyAJC sorry, but i do not "know" anything about the definite outcome of the project

You can buy and sell pledges, thus it's an "investment" for that reason.

My enemies are many. My equals are also many. Im Nerfpoleon

Eve lost me when they nerfed the nightmare. I never will get over that.

eve online was ruined from the start with real-time skill progression. anyone who has an account longer than you will automatically have more skills than you and there is zero way to catch up (other than skill injectors ironically)

its so funny reading the other guy saying that skill injectors are really awesome and having you shit on them 2 comments later because 5 minutes ago i diddnt even know that game exist.

​@@lawrenceredmacher4382but the skills are capped. Doesn't matter how many capital skills you have, you still won't fly smaller ships any better. And the vast, vast majority of ships flown are on the smaller end. So it really doesn't matter if someone has a ton more skillpoints.

When you use the word "kinda" it does make your argument a bit flimsy. The game is 100% free to play. Now are stash tabs nice and helpful? Yeah, though they are far from as influential on how well you can do. It can maybe save some time sorting particularly if you get very far in the game on a character, but at that point I'd wonder why you wouldn't be willing to shell out $20 to get something like a currency stash or other stash spaces that might help you out. You already can have it now sort things out as a base option when you click to quickly store items, no need for even premium stash or anything special for it to do that for you.

@@Asin24 Oh you must've mistaken my stance. I spent 4 digits on the game already. PoE is life haha. Just saying it is kinda pay 2 win simply by how much you leave f2p people in the dust once you reach endgame. There's no denying how big of a difference it makes! Had to make an edit: reading your comment again it's pretty clear you have no business in judging the pay2win aspect of PoE.

It's just a terrible game to bring up in this argument in general because of the way its indirect competition works. Nobody can "lose" or "win" in Path of Exile (pvp is basically irrelevant and not held in any high esteem) so the way people have taken to competing with one another is by comparing total account value of items and currency. This isn't really "winning" or "losing" though. It's the same thing with Warframe, where you can absolutely save time with platinum, but because there's no direct competition, this can be classified as a quality of life feature. I agree that stash tabs are absolutely vital for my enjoyment of the game, but they are only pay to win if someone is comparing themselves to other people, and considering it a "win" when their (ingame) account value is higher, at which point I will vehemently argue that they're playing the game wrong. This isn't to say that stash tabs don't give you a mechanical advantage, this is to say that Path of Exile is not a game that can be won, and therefore does not belong in this conversation in the same way Star Citizen does. He said it's "borderline" which I agree with. To say the take is factually wrong seems a bit extreme.

I played for years as f2p using only the default stash tabs. Not only can it be done but it is easy to do and not a disadvantage in the slightest if you have half a brain and spend a brief while to think about what you should be picking up which is something you should do even with additional tabs. Stash tabs aren't pay-to-win. They're 'pay to not be inconvenienced' and 'pay to get away with being brain-dead.' The limited inventory is beaten with even an iota of thought and discipline.

@@Shindo13371 that's a cope take. You do you lol

Leave those Sunkcostfalicians alone 😂

You also NEED platinum to get more Slots, which really help with MR progression. And i really dislike people who say "just trade for plat", every single tradeable Platinum is bought by someone. Someone has to pay real money to put tradeable Plat in circulation in the first place. For maaaany years, the only reliable way to get potatos was Plat.

@@ne0ns0wl46 totally agreed

The difference is that in Warframe, buying warframes does not buy power. You can't jump into endgame content immediately just by paying for a frame if you haven't already grinded for the mods, not to mention all the content locked behind mastery rank. To be fair Star Citizen isn't quite on the level of pay to win than other games, but you can still buy an F8 and smoke someone who bought an Aurora.

@@reginadea2821 I'm warframe, you can buy mods, slots, prime frames, exp boosts, time skips, materials for upgrading, weapons, prime weapons, all before we even get to platinum trading with other players. There are more pay-to-win aspects in warframe than in most games, even with progression locks like Mastery levels (which are themselves basically a joke at early ranks). SC is absolutely almost just as bad... except that in warframe you cannot always farm for the frame you most want because of how they cycle availability and make parts farming intentionally obtuse and RNG based. In SC you can always farm for the ship you most want. No RNG. No availability cycles. You farm rep to unlock vendors, you farm uec to afford price, you buy ship. Any ship. With in game currency. And if you bring up unique exceptions like the Sabre Raven, imma bring up unique exceptions like Excal Prime. Neither of these hands pass the pay-to-win sniff test, but also, neither game actually locks content off behind paywalls. They are absolutely both pay to skip games.

@@reginadea2821 You can literally use plat to buy full upgraded mods... You can get some of the best weapons in the game with plat. You can buy boosters with plat to speed up the MR locked content. The game is p2w.

That isn't the argument. The argument is that having the cool helmet doesn't make my gun reload faster or deal more damage. It just means I have a cool helmet. I'm not going to win more because I bought the awesome skin for my weapon, and I'm not going to lose more because I didn't. What you're referring to is more about game design use of incentive and prestige, which is a separate thing and is pretty much the first thing tossed out the window once the dev considers having microtransactions at all. (I wouldn't mind going back to an era of no MT's, but Pandora's box is already open.)

@@charmquarkyeah and it’s totally acceptable to have 500 dollar skins

​@@charmquarkI'm with you, although there is an argument that some skins in some games can give a stealth advantage if you blend into the background better. I don't really care as I'll just buy a skin if I think it looks good enough to be worth it, but in that sense a skin at least can be mechanical in nature

Art makes you feel things. Vanity is a big thing for humans. In a lot of games cosmetics are art that is used to milk the whales.

then play it now. last patch made things super smooth. its highly playable and very fun as it is now.

@@fakiirification Have fun playing it then...

@@fakiirification It's straight up dog shit don't lie to people, the ai is still broken, the missions are still buggy af, you can die at any second to any number of game breaking bugs, almost nothing works properly. Let me quote shroud for you from his time playing the "game" "This is fucking terrible, NOTHING WORKS!" - Shroud

@@nottomclancy2439 I do

​@@fakiirificationNah, just play starsector instead. Way more bang for your buck compared to Store citizen.

I don't think that your experience completely invalidates what Thor said, but more people should you see your point of view! Certified gaming moment :D

So many of these talking heads online have clearly never even tried playing SC lmao. Kudos for actually trying the game before spewing nonsense like some of these other guys. The points you bring up makes it obvious you actually have had considerable experience with the game, and it really does seem like you know what you're talking about. The bones of something great are there, but the servers hold it back SO HARD. That's why the whole idea of "Server Meshing" has seemed like a 'Holy Grail' of sorts. We've seen and played a demo of Server Meshing, so it does work...let's see what happens when the first version gets implemented in late '24/early '25.

@@tiestofalljays lol dude People who never tried it barely ever say anything about it, maybe "looks neat" I'm sure it'll totally get fixed by adding a feature promised since 2018 which is a must for every MMO

@@tiestofalljays I've played it. It's a skeezy cash grab with a captive audience of whales. Calling it a "game" is a joke. And the fact that they delayed cargo elevators is absolutely hilarious to me.

*You're... I stopped reading at the first sentence.

But that doesn’t make him wrong

@@SubiKinubi It does. Because if it weren't a game, people wouldn't be playing it for fun, they would test it and put it down.

@@Billy-bc8pk that doesn’t disprove what he said at all 😂

@@SubiKinubi It does. First of all there is no such thing as lifetime subscription. The only thing there is,is lifetime insurance which means you don't have to extend insurance on your ship with INGAME money. If you don't have lifetime insurance and you don't extend your insurance with INGAME money it will just take longer to deliver your ship if it get's destroyed. A mechanic that other games have too btw. Gta online for example. Also you don't need to buy the game and then buy a ship to be able to play the game. You buy the game for 35$ and get a ship with it. With that ship you work your way up to better ships. I've played over 1k hours and never spent a cent more of real money than the initial 35$. Also I have owned most of the 145 currently available ships, all bought with INGAME money that I made from completing missions, salvaging, mining etc. And so did most of my friends. One can think what he want's about people who spend a lot of real money to buy ships. I'm not a fan of it either since it takes away the progress of working your way up. But it's not pay to win. It's pay to skip grind max. I destroy the biggest strongest ships with beginner ships all the time because they are a lot more agile and can easily dodge bigger ships attacks. It takes a lot longer to destroy them since their weapons are weak but it is definetely possible. I see why people see some things critical about the game but he just straight up lied in this video. I don't know if it is for clicks or if he is just uninformed. Nobody has to spend more than 35$ to play the game that is in Alpha but already has more content than many AAA games nowadays. I personally love the game and enjoy every second of it. I would love to see it succeed but if it doesn't I lost 35$. Nobody forces people to spend thousands of $. They do it because they want to support the development of this game. Wheter it's smart or not is another question but hey in the end it's their money and they can do with it whatever they want.

Oh hey I’ve found one of you guys in the wild within a reasonable time frame! Hello! 🙋🏼‍♂️ I have been DYING to ask the people who make these posts just what the aych eeiy double hockey sticks you’re doing for fun for hours on end. I’m also a backer (albeit a realistic one and not a part of the cult of Roberts). So I will go to bat for LTI (you can’t just buy it, it’s for pledging to a new craft right when it’s announced), the replication layer (I dunno why we went for the Norte Dame/Space Elevator approach for an online game when more mundane and workable solutions existed but hey once it works that’ll be great for mmos as a whole and they have shown promise in developing it besides detouring the entire game for a decade to do so). But, I see guys like you post right. I see it a lot. “Golly gee I already have a ton of fun with this game!”… and as somebody who boots it up from time to time… I must ask. Where? How? Doing what? 890 jump on loop for ten years? Buggy ass bunkers where the last guy clips into the wall 2/10 times and other frustrating crap? The barely implemented and not interesting freight hauling? Duping holds full of salvage? The same like, 10, missions? There’s not much game here yet because CIG have been sitting there bollocks in hand doing replication layer/server meshing stuff while adding random bits and bobs that aren’t really gameplay for the last decade or so. We might be on the cusp of greatness but for now, this second, it’s sandless empty box shantytown. I’m not quite as antagonistic as I sound I’m more genuinely bewildered by the stance I see semi frequently as somebody who finds SC to be threadbare and barely workable with low FPS even on a high end PC at the best of times, and a nightmare with potential yet unfulfilled but progressing on average. My entire clan doesn’t so much as play SC as suffer it. “Dude don’t use that elevator, it’s haunted and will clip you through the station”, “guys how am I trespassing in quantum? Why is the station attacking me… WHY AM I IN KESSLER?!”, “ ok guys be right th… wait… I fell through the floor…. WHAT?! I’m flying so fast into the planet! Screw this I’m done for the night guys”, “why are our scu clipping out of the hold and flying away???” all that and more is the typical and the content on offer is like, VERY small. It’s more or less ALL waiting on new tech to actually put the sand in the box, so what we have is premade content and like, human digit amounts of premade bethesda radiant missions at that. Starfield looks like a sumptuous gaming banquet by comparison. I’ll stop ranting but yeah, I’d love to hear what you’re doing because I suspect just like there are some people speed running early 2000s flash games over and over people who say SC is “so entertaining” in its current state might be either easily entertained and/or legitimately like doing the same thing 151,697 times and/or find dodging show stopping bugs at 15fps to do the same thing 151,697 times to be gameplay in and of itself or something. Look forward to hearing from one of you guys as a fellow backer who walked across glass and cried with joy to reuninstall after finishing xenothreat just now. (While boarding the Idris I was in a quantumstate armistice zone that I could never leave so I could never use guns or fists or anything even while being shot at so I just sat on my hands and used medpens on people as everybody else had fun).

The subscription aversion goes both ways for me. IMO the best way to be to (continue to) offer a voluntary subscription that gives you an insignificant benefit in the game - like not having to pay rent for a rented mansion you could also pay for with in-game currency. If it's a forced subscription much of the playerbase would vanish just because we're done with paying monthly subscriptions for game. It's why I left WoW and TOR, personally. At the same time they did hurt themselves by being so adamantly against subscriptions in the early days, but between their proven willingness to ignore previous statements when it's to the benefit of the company and their complete lack of comments on future funding in the more recent years I'd say anything is possible.. CryTek didn't make the video, it was a third party outsourcing company (CGBot?) they continued to work with for some time.

Not really.

Apples and oranges

Yup. That sucks because it encourages grindy gameplay loops.

Correction, It let's you skip. In warframe, you can get warframe through grinding, and you can get Primes through grinding. Many of the statistcal things, warframes, weapons, mods, can still be grinded for in a reasonable time without paying anything. The only things that you can only get through platinum usage that you can't grind for is cosmetics. Color palettes, skins, and decorations. Rushing a warframe does nothing for statistics, cause there is no leaderboard. Buying a prime outright doesn't change anything cause the minor boosts to their base kit is barely a blip on mid and late game builds. Some of the best weapons, the kuva and tenet weapons literally can only be grinded for. Paying money to rush getting the frames, weapons, Primes, is only done by people with money to blow, or those with toddler syndrome. "I want this thing now"

Having read those lines I stil wonder what you are paying for in Warframe. Paying to loose ingame time?

​@@dave_reedhonestly, I'm just paying because DE made a game that's free and a not Korean cash grab type mmo. It's very rare to buy stuff as a donation to the dev, I buy stuff because I expect value in return.

Do correct me if i'm wrong and I'm def not speaking on behalf of thor, but i think it's ok for warframe and not for star citizen is because they could just rugpull or they could just crumble into nothingness with their perpetual kickstarter status as their foundation, unlike Warframe which is already established as a full game with updates. Why would they do that with how much is already invested in the game? Well, did you see the genuine 48K US Dollars pack that people actually buy (which is really 52K after calculations)? Organizations that the community built buy those packs and not just one single and done purchase either, several 48K+ deals are being realized, and that's not even including all the cheaper ones. And i've seen scammers rugpull for pettier pennies or games failing due to over-ambitiuosness and lesser money from kickstarter.

You can spend $0 on Warframe, have access to the entire game for free, and you can be just as powerful as paying players. Nobody cares about Warframe's monetization because you don't have to pay any attention to it if you don't want to.

@@greatswordofvictory1271 Same exact sentence can be said for SC except change 0$ to $45.

@@greatswordofvictory1271 doesn't change the fact that you can very much pay your way to end game. It's just double standard, Pirate is fine with WF having P2W because he likes the game, he isn't with SC because he doesn't. I'm not criticizing WF, it's a fantastic game, but Pirate's "simple" take doesn't seem so simple.

@@greatswordofvictory1271 Same with sc except it costs $45 to entry. You get access to everything and can be just as powerful. So the only thing left to complain about is the $45 base cost for the game.

They didnt ban just chinese farmers, they banned many legitimate backers who were abusing duplication bugs that they knew was there for the sale week. What's hilarious is how many similar duplication bugs there have been in the past, but they banned people because there was a public outcry since the public thinks the game cant run smoothly with ships parked outside the pad of the city.

@@hagenisse They are just suspended for a while, not banned. Also it was only 600 people which is nothing compared to how many actually did the duping. And those cases were, for the most part, people selling currency on ebay. That really isn't the problem with SC. They did the right thing getting rid of currency farmers.

Yeah it's not hard to earn credits in game at all lol so I don't see it as an advantage. You can buy the big Boi ships, I can spend maybe 2 to 3 days grinding to buy one. Yeah such a statistical and mechanical advantage XD maybe if he says it 30 more times it'll make it true.

The most expensive ships you can earn in game that you can effectively fly solo are like $300. The cheapest is about $60. the $300 ship if its a combat ship would kick a $60 ships ass, but fighting each other in SC is not a big part of the game. The $60 ship could do jobs to earn in game credits to buy that same big fighter ship in less than a week of gameplay.

Last patch you could salvage hammerheads and be worth over 200 million by the end of the day lol. Making money is never an issue in Star Citizen but, in all honesty, it needs to be in the future.

@@ParaquatSC If you ignore ship classes sure.

fkn hell...even if I don't completely agree with you, I can see there is a lot of insight and critical thinking to what you said.

Well put.

I genuinely invite any constructive discourse from anyone who disagrees with me willing to have an adult and respectful conversation. There's too many bad actors and salt farmers who just want to bait a reaction instead of actually having anything to add of any substance. I refuse to acknowledge with trolls. If you genuinely want to open up a dialogue with me, I will happily engage with you in a fair and reasonable discourse.

@@AbjectIndication-we5fz For that last part, people get scammed everyday. Sometimes a lot of people fall for a scam, like how a lotta people thought that a bullet train in a metal tube would be cheaper to build than just a bullet train. They wanted to believe in a project that seemed innovative and like it came from a source that had good intentions, but in the end it was just a con job. However, in the case of SC, I think it's more of a "started with good intentions and then got greedy" scenario.

"but so many people are still falling for the scam" is not the best argument to make.

I never spent more than 45$ I've owned every ship in game, got more gameplay than I did out of any call of duty clone, made whales cry in global because I popped their 1500$ ship with a single size 9 torp, seen all the game has to offer and then some cause of the constant updates, and gotten my moneys worth 100 times over since I first bought a little starter aurora back in 2017. If people wanna be pressed cause you can spend 48k on a micro-transaction as if CIG is forcing people to spend that much, then go back to EA or Blizzard and go buy their latest batch of loot boxes and season passes and 120$ single player first day DLCs.

@@otisthecowfrombarnyard getting whales to fund a game i enjoy instead of the 6 brazilionth gambling simulator i have no interest in is also nice.

yeah people can complain all they want. Game is fun. Anyone who says there is no game is announcing just how little they actually know about it. Gonna go play my nonexistent game now.

​@@otisthecowfrombarnyard i see this argument a lot, why do you assume people criticising SC are going to blindly resume playing some EA/blizzard game and buy a lootbox? (i've also seen cod as a diss on their hypothetical taste in games) i'd wager a lot of people criticising this are just as strongly (if not more) against lootboxes i spent 45 and i don't enjoy it. i had to pay to access it, and i'm entitled to my opinion but at this stage i'll leave it at: i've played it for a long time, didn't cave in to pledges and i still don't like it. i've tried to use tanks as "turrets" until that got boring, played chicken with two ships, tried to calculate the gravity of each planet by measuring distance fallen over time and i honestly wish i spent that tiem doing anything else. i gave it the most chances i've ever given anything and i still lost so much time to bugs and felt disconnected from a community that predominantly wants to talk about the ships, like the stale gameplay loops are a bit of a closeted skeleton i don't play EA, activision, blizzard games, i've never opened a lootbox in my life and don't plan to, please stop using that nonsense example to try invalidating other people's opinions. it's disrespectful and appears unfair to outsiders

@@otisthecowfrombarnyard i spent 45 and i wish i had that time and money back. the people criticising this are less likely than the avg. person to go buy a lootbox, that's a silly comparison. it's an unfair attempt at a "gotcha"

I've gotten permission! :)

@@DailyDoseOfThor-FanMade Thor is such a legend

@@DailyDoseOfThor-FanMade We will be telling him directly about this channel, so we will see if you have permission.

@@Ineluki_Myonrashi By all means :)

@@Ineluki_Myonrashi "The streamer is my friend, he calls me dude all day on stream I must protect him at all costs".

That is so true. Heck, even the achievements can screw you (Looking at you sticky nickels).

yes but you still need to level it up/have cappacity to mod it/have the mods needed/having the knowledge to use it in "end-game" content, so it's more of a pay to skip

@@nerovanbraus9119 nah it's BS. Everything you said can be said about virtually every game. Gacha games are heavily P2W but you still need to level/gear up your units alongside learning how and when to use them. Warframe is very much P2W, nearly everything can be bought using real money, whether it's mods, arcanes, frames, weapons, pets, everything. They even sell booster packs giving pretty important in game benefits. It's straight up double standard. People like Warframe therefore it's fine.

I started playing Warframe at the beginning and I find it and Star Citizen very similar. Warframe was very much a tech demo and i was literally stuck in my ship for 6 months. Yes money equals time in that game but you can easily get the plat in game from time so i consider it fair. The big ships in Star Citizen is not really a bump because you can do f all of nothing with it alone. Someone asked for the 48k package (everything). I have played both extensively and I currently enjoyed SC well over Warframe.

I was going to say. I'm pretty sure you can whip out your credit card in Warframe and buy the "endgame" warframes right off the bat just like you can buy the "endgame" ships in SC right off the bat with real money instead of grinding for them in-game. I think the difference then is just the wipes. You don't ever expect Warframe to wipe your progression (anymore) whereas you still do expect that with SC. And if they can justify wiping progression forever into the future that could be a source of "pay2win" complaints.

@@ailurusfulgens1849 Gacha have limited means for F2P players to obtain units / items with a large luck element involved Wheres ares in Warframe you can pretty much get everything through quests instead. Yes you can use premium currency to buy materials though that has to come by player market You have to draw the line somewhere, because technically you can PAY someone to play the ANY game for you to earn items.

What will happen to people that are spent +40,000 dollars in ships? Do they lose everything?

​@FireCrauter anything that you buy with actual money is never wiped, and the game has been stepping away from large wipes. The only big wipe left iirc is 1.0

preach

Lmao

I can do this in No Man's Sky, a released game that consistently puts out free updates for years.

@@Mechanomics As a NMS player, you are off your rocker if you think the NMS flight experience is anything close to Star Citizen's lmfaoooooooo. What SC has is closer to MS Flight Sim than NMS. It's legit impressive af.

@@Mechanomics That's ironic. Didn't nms flop on launch and everyone called it a scam too? Didn't they like lie about a bunch of features that ended up not even being in the game on release and they were the laughing stock of the gaming community for a sold couple years?

We all dont know what to understand with the insurance. CiG hasnt committed to anything regarding this

He misunderstands the entire concept. He really just has an issue with CiG offering large packages and having a large "budget" but wants to try and tack on all these other things as sign of Star Citizen's impending failure. People look at the amount of money CiG has brought in and instantly go into "It's shit because big money amount" without considering it's funding the development of 2 games one of which is about to release soon, the creation of an entire building in the UK for the HQ as well as the purchasing of multiple studios, the time and effort to create brand new tech that has never been seen in games, and payroll for all the employees for all these years. So yes CiG has brought in a lot of money but they're not just using it to pay themselves in yachts which is what people act like every time.

@@schlagzahne6741 That is true, it's too early to commit to something like that, however what has been said in the past is that it will be a very small fee to keep the policy active, think of it as like, 5 credits for a month of insurance vs 1000 to get your ship back from destruction. obviously there's a non-expedited wait time if you dont want to pay, it will eventually be restored to you similar to how it is now. and there will be several levels of expedited replacement, more money, get it back faster. but the "Lifetime" would only cover the miniscule fee to keep the policy active. and all ships paid for in the cash shop will be in your hangar forever, even if the insurance runs out, that much has been confirmed. you'll have to re-up the policy to start the process of getting it back though. I don't blame people for not knowing every detail of this game's mechanics as they have been laid out over the years, but that is the general idea. they have said repeatedly people put too much value into the insurance side of things.

Welcome to Thor's content, are you new? His whole schtick is being a sanctimonious know-it-al about everything even though he only knows 5% of the picture

@@Sammysapphira Same can be said about the commenters.

Lmfao i like how the comparisons change as games get released… used to be yall compared it to Red Dead 😂😂😂😂lmao

@@bhz8499 What's your point? Have you ever actually tried SC? If you had, you'd know how stupid you sound rn lmfao. Anyone who wants a satisfying space flight game should take a hard look at SC, because there is truly nothing else like it available at any price. I have paid $70 over the last 4.5 years. That's it. None of this "omg they want people to spend $48,000!!!" bullsh*t. So kindly f off with your clearly uninformed opinion and actually make an effort to get informed lololol. Holy noob.

$2B is for the whole lifetime of the game, not just the development. By comparison, GTA V is estimated under $400M and Cyberpunk is under $450M even after the 2.12 update. The only game that cost as much as Store Citizen for the development is Genshin Impact. But Genshin is not still in development, unlike SC, and those masochists are pushing updates every six WEEKS, with major ones every year.

@blackfowl75 GTA 6 not 5

@@recaplrg3552 That’s what I said, but maybe more clearly: the $2B GTA VI is getting is not just for the development of the game, it’s for everything else too, including advertising, patches, updates, etc. Which is why I used GTA V as an example. GTA V is less than $400M for development only.

Naw, it won't be.

@@evanmartin1271 lol yeah because there’s hardly any in any game these days, especially mmo’s….

They are certainly ready to make that happen. If they just make the game something people really want to play, have a low cost subscription that unlocks the more advanced/not really necessary to do gameplay and content, and sell stuff that doesn't change the balance or break immersion (cool clothes, alternative versions of ships and weapons, decorations for your hab/hanger, alternative habs/hangers, etc), I'd call that the best case scenario.

@@SubiKinubi they are just gonna sell cosmetics and armor and stuff. It's not gonna be free to play you literally will have to purchase it, you already do have to purchase it. Plus it's not even their only planned revenue stream, they are making a single player game too with planned sequels. You can get the entire game right now for 45 dollars, btw. And even the way they advertise stuff, it's basically all just cheap ship packages advertised to ppl, you have to go out of your way to find expensive ships on a normal day, even during the events they are just in the event page with the rest of the ships that are part of the event, and when as of right now there isn't an in game store at all.

@@evanmartin1271 mate I play the game, I know, that doesn’t mean they won’t monetise more of it, it’s an alpha yes but that doesn’t mean the 1.0 version won’t include anything else, it’s ignorant to think you know the future

I agree but I think he just needed to change his terminology. Slots and Warframes aren't cosmetic but they are QoL. There is no Warframe/Weapon that is 100% required for any piece of content. You can play 1 Warframe forever and complete anything in the game so it's essentially: Do I want to use the tank Warframe for a stealthy spy mission or the frame that can literally go invisible... It's all QoL. And they also do play giveaways. The plat is tradable so they inject into their own economy plus new plays start with 50 plat for an extra slot and some weapon slots which doesn't even mention the free 3 weapon slots we get a year. So bad terms but his take is fine.

​@@DarkLynxDEV First of all, you are wrong on the Giveaway plat being tradable. EVERY rewarded Plat (contests, livestream, promotion etc.) is not tradable. That's what Warframes official support site says on Trading Platinum. QoL is also the wrong term for slots. It's not a small inconvenience, which can be just overlooked, because it doesn't affect the gameplay. There are a few weapons you need to craft for quest progression, which you don't get slots for. Mastery Rank is needed for progression and for Mastery you need a lot of Frames and Weapons. Sure you can always delete everything and start the next weapon/frame, but where is the fun in this? You should have some Frame variety and weapons to reliably do all types of missions. Frames which are good at crowd control to do Defense missions are a must have. Nekros was a must have for quite a long time, for farming. But most importantly, you should have fun playing a game and not torture yourself. 3 Slots yearly are a drop in the ocean. And those are "just" weapon slots. There are way more slot types out there. Overall, i don't think Warframes way is bad. But it's also important to understand that it isn't this F2P Wonderland alot of people claim it to be. I started playing Warframe in 2013, and it's clearly one of the better F2P games out there.

Yeah, the best scenario for clear advantages on p2w systems is when the other person can still get everything from playing, like usually called "Play to Win" It may seems silly to call Play to Win differently but these are systems usually implemented by gacha games for example, where you in theory can earn the needed amount to guarantee what thing you need in said gacha through the pity mechanics The biggest factor that still makes it a bad system in my opinion is the Time Meta. By paying, you are essentially skipping the played time to get the things, while as if you don't pay, you may need to have either farmed the game before already (prior to the content being released) or literally have no available time to farm enough in game stats to unlock things that have a limited time window of availability Overall that's still the sorta best scenario for microtransations that give advantages, but it comes with it's own issues and problems

How is it even an investment when these things that you pay for *get wiped* from time to time *by design* Things with an expiration date are *not* investments

@@InfernosReaper Not defending Star Citizen. And I agree with your point. But fyi, options have expiration date for example.

@@Juhno What kind of "options" are you referring to?

Your friend is an idiot. I hope you treat them well, they're gonna need the support eventually. Joking aside, i genuinely feel bad for people who got sucked into that original kickstarter. Anyone who got in after should have known better and i feel less, but the first round of people really thought they were getting in on something amassing.

It's not an investment - it's a DONATION for development. You don't "invest" $100 to PBS just to get a tote bag. ;)

@@markcritic2409 you are right, investments return cash directly or indirectly.

A friend of mine got the Lifetime subscription to Hellgate London. He was kind of upset about it pretty quickly.