stratification chamber in a rocket mass heater with matt walker

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stratification chamber in a rocket mass heater with matt walker

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6 жыл бұрын

richsoil.com/heat Shamelessly stolen from the world of masonry stoves, the word "bell" with rocket mass heaters can mean several things. So we go with "stratification chamber" to reference heating the mass (as opposed to the similar stratification that happens in the barrel). Matt Walker is building the outdoor rocket mass heater with smoker as he describes the stratification chamber technique he prefers. He likes to use a half barrel.
He mentions filling a tub with water and if you flip it upside down, you fill it with hot exhaust gasses. It comes with interpretive dance! I felt like it might not be clear to everybody, so I paused, added an animation and description, and then rewound and did the thing with matt again - my thinking is that on the second pass it makes a lot more sense to everybody.
My animation shows filling a bucket with water because the water is heavier than surrounding air. Then I flip it upside down and fill the bucket with hot air. This is the same sort of effect you get with a hot air baloon. I then demonstrate that the bucket conducts heat, so the gasses in the bucket cools as the surrounding air is warmed.
In time, the heat stratifies with the hottest air at the top and the coolest air is at the bottom.
A regular rocket mass heater has a duct that starts low and finishes high. The heat is forced to the far end of the bench. The vertical exhaust near the barrel gets a bit of extra heat to make it rise - a tertiary thermosiphon.
All the crappy animation is by me!
On a larger scale this would be called a kang bed stove or a roman hypocaust.
After raising the manifold exhaust, use a hollow bench - with a large cavity. The hot exhaust enters the chamber and spreads out evenly. Then the coolest gasses are extracted from the bottom.
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Пікірлер: 174

@johnkilgallon207 Жыл бұрын

That upside down bucket of warmth was the absolute moment I grasped the whole concept! it takes a real expert to be able to make a complex idea simple enough to understand!

@onlinebills9169 3 жыл бұрын

When you make a video addressing engineers, friend, any animation is acceptable and very appreciated. Thank you for creating and sharing this video.

@hansjansen317 6 жыл бұрын

reminds me of the Kusnetsov stove. In a monestary in Kiev I saw how the flue gasses went into a stove on the second floor, where the hot gas had to cool down to go into the chimney, raised to the third floor to next " stove", etc. Only the lowest stove was used to burn wood, the other three levels of the building had stoves without burning chamber. Just a small door for cleaning.

@myronplatte8354 2 жыл бұрын

YES. It's the same concept.

@vennic 6 жыл бұрын

Always a pleasure meeting a fellow artist in the medium that is MS Paint

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

This was gimp ... mostly. I also used something called pencil2D.

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

Animation acceptable?

@johnqglass 6 жыл бұрын

very acceptable. Wont win an award, but it more than gets the point across.

@fallingleaves6951 6 жыл бұрын

yep.

@TheKlink 6 жыл бұрын

paul wheaton does the job, and is pleasant in its simplicity. Referring to the previous video with the tipi, the "cold plug' referred to would be in the little u-bend drawn at 4:46??

@lbkelgreen1 6 жыл бұрын

very much so. thank you

@johnwan75146 6 жыл бұрын

Yup, I don't need Pixar pretty. Just some simple examples & good communication.

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

thanks to my patreon peeps for getting my youtube engine running again patreon.com/pwvids

@terretulsiak 6 жыл бұрын

If only a public school makerspace could build these, it would teach young minds through observation and even participation even more than we can imagine about physics and math. And collaboration.

@harrymills2770 2 жыл бұрын

Not a ton of math. But building these things and seeing how they work or don't work, would be very beneficial. Acquiring the materials would be an education in itself. What would work best, what's available and what does it cost? I still think that buying cheap-as-possible stovepipe and burying it in dry dirt is the cheapest way to move that hot air through an earth mass. The advantage of this system is that more of the heat would be transferred up towards the living area and less into the ground, as the warmer air is pooling at the top.

@felicianocapicia 6 жыл бұрын

I absolutely love this video! It explained it in a way I could understand, whereas I did not understand before.

@brianhester1996 6 жыл бұрын

Wow! Elegant solution in its simplicity. Thanks for sharing that!

@LolitasGarden 6 жыл бұрын

I believe there is a guy in the audience that understands it and wants to convey that he understands with single syllables.

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

That would be chef seth!

@LolitasGarden 6 жыл бұрын

paul wheaton AH. YES. YEAH. UHUH. YEAP. RIGHT.

@samyish 6 жыл бұрын

Lolita's Garden people like that are so distracting!

@karentysver7599 5 жыл бұрын

My first thought was that talking slow doesn't help people understand....

@fbksfrank4 4 жыл бұрын

Yea

@bobgunner3086 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul for the clarification. I could not totally get my head around what Matt was describing in his videos, but this helps alot. I would love to scale this down somehow to use as a chicken waterer heater for the winter .. e.g. to have some sort of heated bench to put my waterer on but not so hot as to harm the chickens.

@portlandlocalchurch8168 Жыл бұрын

Bury a water container in the ground with 2 tubes going up into the upper container ..ground warms the water and warmer water rises

@LifeOfIvyQuinn 2 жыл бұрын

I know this is now an old video but you explained his/this concept impeccably and it makes total sense. Thank you.

@duncanseath745 3 жыл бұрын

Appologies if this question has been asked already. What measures are taken to ensure reliable sealing of the stratification chamber to prevent fumes entering the room? Thanks in advance

@teazer999999 5 жыл бұрын

Interesting approach. Nice model but consider what turbulence would do. If the hot exhaust gas filling the chamber is fast, it will call turbulence, mixing hot and cold gas, which would vent to the nearby exhaust chimney. So having the chimney on the other side and low to the ground supports both laminar stratification and turbulent.

@sgtbender1335 9 ай бұрын

That's what I was looking for... Well done! 😎👍

@walsterdoomit 4 жыл бұрын

Getting ready to build a mass heater. I’ve watched so many vids. I’m so glad I saw this one. Outside the box for the win. 👍

@harrymills2770 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it will draw once you get a column of heated air rising up the chimney. The trick is getting the air moving through the thing at the outset, to prevent it filling your living space with smoke on start-up. I think I'd use some sort of flapper "valve" with a hand-powered bellows or blower that I'd close off once I got the whole thing started. I don't imagine it'd take much to save yourself a lot of "Some days it doesn't want to start" mornings.

@HansQuistorff 6 жыл бұрын

Planing on doing this in my greenhouse. Use up my barrels with rusted out bottoms. Have lots of clay and sand to make cob. There is a stash of bricks and fire bricks So I just need to get shoveling and cutting and put it together. Will post pictures on permies.com

@antonmoric1469 4 жыл бұрын

Really enjoyed this; you did a great job explaining the somewhat non-intuitive physics. Cheers!

@austinshackles549 6 ай бұрын

I love this. We're gonna be building a Walker stove hopefully this spring/summer and it'll have a bench attached but as it's on the ground it can and probably will be solid or pebble filled mass. But the next project after that will be good for a stratification chamber :D I love the animations in this, explain it perfectly without even listening to the sound!

@razony 4 жыл бұрын

Love the idea! It may be just from the art work but, if the exhaust coming out of the chamber is risen a bit and the heat the fills the area needed, then the cooler air escapes through a lower duct. The chamber (lower than the first.) should not drop "down" but run lateral than up and out to the sky above. Because A drop will collect debris (ashes...) and over time, will clog which brings me to a access point to be able to clean out every once in a blue moon. But like you said Paul. KZfaq lacks 3D drawing capabilities. (My daughter says she can show you how it's done Paul. lol)

@johnkowall2629 Жыл бұрын

Thank you

@kylestrokelitus360 2 жыл бұрын

Great idea with the stratification chamber, but question is, does the rule for keeping ducting the same size throughout the system go out the window with this? Essentially the stratification chamber can be any size as long as your exhaust is the lowest point and still keeping the exhaust pipe slightly larger than the burn chamber.

@kylejones2075 5 жыл бұрын

I want to build one outside and bring the warmth in under in a crawl space under a cabin wondering if you could concoct something like that.

@jeanrajotte946 5 жыл бұрын

Question: Is there less "mass" to heat in this RMH than when there's material all around the pipes? I like the simplicity and elegance, here, but is there a loss of efficiency? From the drawings and explanations, it seems there's a big hole of nothing in the middle of the bell,and just a thin-ish shell which would hold less heat than the pile-o-mud around the metal-pipe-designed one? No? Put differently, what's the proportion of air space to mud here compared to a design where the air space is in the pipes alone?

@consideringorthodoxy5495 4 жыл бұрын

Jean Rajotte I think you might be right, however, I do think the “less mass” problem could just be resolved by adding more mass. This is what the hypocaust systems did. Instead of making winding and weaving maze like flumes across multiple high mass surfaces in a block or a bench looking thing in the middle of the room they would push the gasses out under a very large floor space with substantial mass in and supporting the floors. The hypocaust system follows the principles in this video quite well and I would imagine could be used to more evenly warm a house as “heat rises” or “warm gases rise” as I think he says. Having the entire floor as a get source would allow anyone above the floor to receive heat instead of being needing to be very close to the sides of a large block in the middle of the room as heat doesn’t radiate as much off to the sides.

@danielmalayko4438 2 жыл бұрын

Good question, Jean. I was thinking the same thing. I think that you're right in that with less mass in the bench there will be less long-term storage of heat and more quick release of heat into the room. Mind you, it will still be wildly more efficient than a typical Woodstove. I also think this design would be more ideal in situations where there is not a lot of strength to support a huge mass-bench, such as a trailer or tiny-home. If you do have the strength, I would go with filling the bench with heat-storing material to get more thermal mass and slow-release long-term warmth.

@3DCGdesign 2 жыл бұрын

Inside the bench could be like a bee hive set of chambers where these chambers are interconnected, but they "soak up" the heat efficiently into the bench.

@darrishawks6033 4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate your diagram with your adequate drawing skills

@jakebredthauer5100 4 жыл бұрын

Putting the stratification chamber below grade or below the floor may be preferable. I haven't done it. If the bottom of it were six foot lower than the combustion chamber a draft could still be established. I anticipate a slight increase in difficulty. The main benefits would be reduced use of floor space, greater thermal mass if in the ground, possibly less cost of labor and materials and a warmer floor. If anyone thinks that it wouldn't draft, please reply. There is the pressure in, and the vacuum out. A bypass to the flue would help to start but I doubt it would be needed. A warm house will warm the flue to cause some pull to get it started. Some heat would be lost to the land of planet Earth but I don't know how much. Dry soil has some insulative quality, about R-2 per foot I think. The heat would slowly drive the soil moisture away.

@paulwheaton 4 жыл бұрын

I am pretty certain that dry soil has an insulative value of R-0.35 per inch. So closer to R-4 per foot. Other than that - I think this could be an excellent idea. In fact, I kinda think you could weld three barrels together, cover them in an couple inches of low grade (quick) cob, and then plaster on a thick foot of the same cob on top (because heat rises). This would be a magnificent thermal battery.

@jakebredthauer5100 4 жыл бұрын

@@paulwheaton The horizontal chamber would discharge more quickly to match building heat loss better, I suppose. Warm air rises; that is convection. Heat movement in a solid is conduction and that movement is not affected by gravity, nor is radiant heat affected by gravity. The sunlight coming down is an example. If you put a bare foot on a cold floor you can feel the heat move downward. Extruded polystyrene below the thermal mass would mitigate heat loss. I am new to RMH and your evaluation of my subchamber idea was a pleasant surprise. Batch Rockets. What is your opinion? They would reduce much labor of splitting and feeding wood, correct? I don't know the right name. BRH?

@amarieh2218 3 жыл бұрын

Super helpful with the animations! Thank you!

@pipoviola 27 күн бұрын

Simply genius!

@deanthornby2026 2 жыл бұрын

I must of watched this 30 times ....I'm almost ready to go for it ....I'm actually excited 🤣🤣✌️❤️

@mrf5347 4 жыл бұрын

So my imaginary mud bench filled with hot air, and floated off to the lab of AIR CREATE ! These two technologies will be amazing together! Amazing thermal dynamics for the burn chambers that don't crack

@paulwheaton 4 жыл бұрын

I think air crete would be a poor choice for a bench - it is low in mass and tends to be insulative.

@luaufeet4368 4 жыл бұрын

Partially cob the chimney to the lower part of the barrel? A two stage rocket? Brilliant! Relax people, you can still use ducting, just raise the outlet, let the gases flow down and reheat the chimney like THE GOOD MAN offered.This post is more than two years old, I'll check Permies for a working model. Aww.... I'm excited but I live in the tropics. Mahalo, thank you, N

@aaaaaa2206 Жыл бұрын

If the inlet of the exhaust at the bottom is the furthest away (far right side of the bench) from the hot air inlet of the chamber = bench on the left side, the exhaust wouldn't suck as much hot air away from the inside of the chamber as it would if the exhaust was closer (like in the video), right?

@wambutu7679 3 жыл бұрын

I love an idea, visualized. Thank you.

@DanielaRouge 4 жыл бұрын

Splendid! I have learnt so many things from this video! I have built a rocket stove and I don;t know if I can use a terracota stove (it''s at about 1 m distance from the rocket s), instead of building the mass heater, I mean to introduce the exhaust pipe into it. Ii will probably warm the terracotta and the smoke will go out of the chimney terracotta is 1.50m,/60cm/35cm.If you could answer me, I would be very grateful. Thank you very much!

@karldepauw8924 2 жыл бұрын

no problem when you can pace the pipes

@timyanke9559 5 жыл бұрын

The basic principle of the free movement of gas. Good info

@davidross5640 11 ай бұрын

i would like to do something as simple as running stove pipe under a wooden floor through a sub floor crawl space and basically have insulated siding with a non insulated floor to make the heat rise into an insulated house.

@didiross6046 3 жыл бұрын

Finally a fun video not the super serious. Really enjoyed it.

@TheKSProduction 4 жыл бұрын

People should use this for van builds

@howdychick30 6 жыл бұрын

This was too funny! Loved it! You guys are coming up with so many new concepts and designs that I keep finding myself wanting to get my hands on the "how to build" material, but then never do, bc the next week you come out with something cooler, and I never know when it's the best type, or if the next whacky invention/idea will resonate with me more... I loved the one that was made for the tiny space with the glass casserole lid, but could not do the masonry work myself. I guess I'm waiting for the builder friendly for the common folk for that one. I am so glad you broke this down into "English." I bought The RMH builder's guide, but to be frank, it was too... wordy, academically challenging... Idk, but I couldn't keep reading it without glazing over and zoning out. Hoping to pick Mud's brain at the Mother Earth News Fair in February. He might have some insight on where I can get what it is exactly that I'm looking for.

@jonothandoeser 2 жыл бұрын

Looks like the new bench design has less thermal mass though.

@mightyconker3903 Жыл бұрын

They aren't new concept

@55sunturbine30 5 жыл бұрын

Carbon monoxide excaping through any crack in the bell chamber or any cobed area into the living space can be a serious risk! I believe the standard metal ducting has much lower risk

@paulwheaton 5 жыл бұрын

zero risk for all practical purposes with a rocket mass heater kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f6eSZpxjl66oaYk.html - a rocket mass heater is a pressure negative system for most of the burn.

@paulwheaton 5 жыл бұрын

@Marvin Cooper i do all that i can to emphasise that the real discussion is elsewhere (the forums at permies, the dvds, ernie and erica's book). A youtube comment doesn't give enough space to go into a lot of detail.

@wayne251975 5 жыл бұрын

Curious as to creosote build up.

@cramersbackyard9634 3 жыл бұрын

I don't know if anybody monitors this thread or not but I will give it a go. If I put a 6 inch J tube assembly into a Well insulated 4X4X5 (L W H) stratification chamber. And I let the flue gas out through a vertical "chimney" from the bottom of the barrel. Could I achieve a temperature inside the chamber of 900 degrees F?

@argirismouroufas3854 5 ай бұрын

Every thing its ok, but how you build empty the place down of the bed? And if you do that, Is not possible the smoke go out in the room?

@NaturallyEmpowered 4 жыл бұрын

I have to say that, I would like more science around this stratification. If you use water as an example it will always choose the path of least resistance. I and other stove builders I have talked to in Scandinavia make stoves around this principle. Since the hot gases choose the easiest path to the exit ( since that is where the draw is the strongest) we must manipulate the gas to take a longer route extracting more heat through friction.

@3DCGdesign 2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, it's not obvious to me that a lot of heat would not be lost by just going out the nearby exit and not being forced to travel to the cold end of the bench before being allowed to leave.

@kiwamiryderkick3266 4 жыл бұрын

I really like to make my own rocket mass heater, I have a question if I may. Could I use any other fuel other then wood? Such as coconut shell ?

@aliciamcnamar8203 6 жыл бұрын

Paul I am very new to all of this and so I have lots of Questions...1. when looking at this as the heat goes into the bench , what makes the heat travel to the end of the bench before being sucked out before it cools down if the 2 air flows are so close to each other? 2. on the build its self- Is there rock in it at all and what or how is the structure built ie supports if no rock in the bench or if there is rock , is it built as a wood box full of rocks? can you explain so I can understand this in more detail?

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

"More detail" is why we have the dvds. But I'll try to help some .... the reason that the hot air levels out is the same reason that water in a lake is so level. Or water in a bathtub, or water in a glass. Air is lighter than water. Warmer air is lighter than cooler air. The stratification chamber can be built of any number of materials.

@harrymills2770 2 жыл бұрын

If it's easier to build a chamber than to bury stovepipe in cobb, then it'll totally work. Heating the chimney might help its performance, but I'd like to think that I didn't do twice the work to carry heat to the same amount of lineal feet of structure. I can see doing it all up in brick. Stovepipe in cobb might be more forgiving and more do-over-able. I just see no shame in a hand-cranked or even an electric "primer" blower to get these things going. Put a good tall chimney on it at the end, to start, and it should draw just fine once it's going. It's getting it going that I'd be worried about, before I put one in.

@brianlynncameron3657 5 жыл бұрын

The concept works, it's up to the individual to figure out the best material's for keeping the gasses in check for longevity & safety. I love people that think and know how to use they're heads. The naysayers can take a hike.

@RajeevBAgarwal Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this explanation, Paul However, the fact remans that the serpentine metal duct allows for covering the whole volume with cob-mass and making the bench or bed more stronger and easy to construct. If we do away with this serpentine duct, the whole bottom portion (stratification chamber) has to be hollow, which may be difficult or costlier to construct. What do you say? Best wishes and love from Bharat (India)

@paulwheaton Жыл бұрын

Sometimes easier and sometimes harder. Sometimes better and sometimes worse. As always, it depends.

@tonikryenbuhl6853 2 жыл бұрын

thanks, very good explanation!

@user-dm1tv6nl2e Жыл бұрын

Is there much of an efficiency difference between a purely ducted system and this reverse bathtub? My gut reaction would suggest the ducting has greater overall surface area interaction between the hot gas and thermal mass, but perhaps the interaction time is increased for the bathtub, so I'm not sure

@salimufari 5 жыл бұрын

I will clarify with 2 words.. Fluid Dynamics. Liking the basically oversized bell chamber.

@daviddaigrepont9485 2 жыл бұрын

It seems like you'd get alot of smoke backing up until stove was completely heated and the flow was established. Did you find that to be the case?

@paulwheaton 2 жыл бұрын

After a minute, the whole system becomes pressure negative - so no problems.

@josephtastic 6 жыл бұрын

beautiful share. thanks a ton!

@garymclay9885 5 жыл бұрын

Is it possible to just expel the exhaust at low level? Rather than forcing cooler gases upwards? It would only work on an outside wall obviously.

@kokopelli314 5 жыл бұрын

That's exactly how I explain thermal losses to my customers.

@Dollapfin 5 жыл бұрын

Let’s say you ran the exhaust gasses through a massive chimney running 3 stories. Would that be enough to absorb most of the heat but not impede on the vacuum as much or would you need to make a heat sink and slow the air down like this?

@lilulilulilulil 5 жыл бұрын

Hello! I'm starting to build a BBR8, I'd like to connect it to a seat that works as a stratification chamber. Do you have any advice about materials to utilize for the seat / coach? Thank you!

@Mark-xt8jp 3 жыл бұрын

Matt Walker has a setup in his house that uses brick and stone for the chamber, he has a couple videos for example kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z612dtad2LK-p6M.html

@TheChsmith 6 жыл бұрын

My RMH is based on Matts design, it heats like crazy, is easy to light because of the huge draft from the half barrels. But being lazy & bored with cob & how long it takes to cure, I layer 2 inches of pea gravel & cover with 1 inch of cob. It may take me several winters to complete (I figure 10inches of TH) to equal your all cobbys

@houtslager 6 жыл бұрын

Pictures - otherwise it never existed ;-)

@julier1080 6 жыл бұрын

“because of the huge draft from the half barrels“ The barrels do not create any draft.

@TheChsmith 6 жыл бұрын

If I could figure out how to post pictures or videos I would. Alz I know is when I first tried to light a fire, I used newspaper but I didn't have enough of a cage of kindling covering the burn chamber, so the paper would suck into riser, so now I just use "hairy/stringy bark" from a poplar tree. Lights very easy. The half barrels create a greater draft/exhaust than 8" stove pipe

@THEfromkentucky 6 жыл бұрын

That's brilliant.

@JacobRichardson 5 жыл бұрын

Golden video!

@waltlars3687 6 жыл бұрын

What is to prevent the heat from "draining" out the bottom and not filling all the way to the cold or right side in the animation?

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

Rocket mass heaters tend to be pressure negative systems due to the vertical exhaust being warmed.

@frankjames1955 6 жыл бұрын

Heat rises.. check

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

You might want to watch "fire science" from "Wood Burning Stoves 2.0" - heat does not rise. But warm air (or certain gasses) does rise (in a gravity environment). This is why cob style is still better than pebble style for a mass.

@richardwallinger1683 5 жыл бұрын

what prevents the exhaust gas products soaking into the stratification bench construction and smelling bad.

@paulwheaton 5 жыл бұрын

Mostly how the system is a negative pressure system when it runs. And then when the fire goes out, nearly all of the gasses in the system go out the chimney.

@immabeunicorn9793 6 жыл бұрын

Just realized that Matt played in Zoolander. Can you please do Blue Steel ? Pleeeeaaase ? Joke aside, awesome idea. Kudos !

@kiddfamilyfarmllc9962 2 жыл бұрын

This dude is Steve McQueen cool

@nojnoj3069 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you, but no need. I understood everything Matt said.

@garlandthompson5970 5 жыл бұрын

This might seem like a silly question from a novice in all of these endevours, but how would one go about making a cob bench hollow? Wouldn't the weight of the top collapse while it was wet, or would it crack? What if a large boned person came over and sat on it, would it break and expel all of that incredible heat? Just a paranoid person, wanting to try this method, but want to be sure that its the most practical...

@paulwheaton 5 жыл бұрын

Either bridge it with something or let the cob dry before sitting on it.

@garlandthompson5970 5 жыл бұрын

Has he successfully made a model such as this for himself or for others? If so that would be an amazing video to see 😄 It seems like an extremely cost effective design!

@johnpatterson6538 5 жыл бұрын

@@garlandthompson5970 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z612dtad2LK-p6M.html if you haven't already found it

@ncooty 6 жыл бұрын

Do you get more smoke-back with this design? Looks like it would create more back-pressure on the inlet to the stratification chamber. Using Matt's upside-down water example and your drawing, it looks as if the "water" would have to be pushed up and over the outflow. (The system has to suck or push that cooler air through a bend and then up the exhaust.) Also, it seems you'd really have to emphasize air-tightness and structural support to the bench (over the hollow chamber).

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

You do need a relatively good seal, but a few leaks are okay. Withe the vertical exhaust next to the barrel it becomes a pressure negative system.

@jeancampbell4341 3 жыл бұрын

Great

@w4447 5 жыл бұрын

one question. I like the idea but we need to do a side by side comparison. In the case of the empty bucket turned upside down. Where's the thermo mass? Isn't that what the whole idea is about? It is a Rocket Mass Heater after all isn't it?

@paulwheaton 5 жыл бұрын

the mass is above the stratification chamber

@paulwheaton 5 жыл бұрын

@@christinaburney5935 except that for 99% of the burn, a rocket mass heater runs pressure negative. And for the last 1% the co2 has been removed from the system.

@paulwheaton 5 жыл бұрын

@@christinaburney5935 Bell? What bell? The barrel?

@halhibben Жыл бұрын

What about convection?

@josephdupont 6 жыл бұрын

I thought the point was to have it flow out of the home near ground level.

@1moreuser 6 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for this! I've been searching all over on how to run the ducting for "bell" systems and it just happened to show up in one of the channels I already subscribe to. I wasn't sure if this setup would draft properly...it worked in my head, but often times real world applications differ from my ideal plans. I've had a plan similar to this in place for quite a while, but was afraid to implement it for fear of draft issues. I thought it might decrease the "rocket" factor....has that been an issue for you folks? Or does it burn rocketier than ever this way? It looks like this opens up a whole new world in terms of heat storage. Thanks again for sharing.

@1moreuser 6 жыл бұрын

Are the diameter specs for the remaining ducting the same? From the DAYS of RMH videos I've watched...I've seen folks come to the general consensus that you never want to use less than 6" for any of your ducting. Wondering if that is the same with this new setup. It seems like it might be more forgiving.

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

You can go bigger, but not smaller.

@samuelthomas9036 4 жыл бұрын

With this method do you have to worry about gas leaking out into the room?

@paulwheaton 4 жыл бұрын

Yes and no. For the first minute - yes. After that, it becomes a pressure negative system, so, no.

@deanthornby2026 2 жыл бұрын

So ....what happened with this design ? ... I've not seen anything else about it ✌️❤️

@Tonzarama 6 жыл бұрын

Looks very promising. We are getting ready to build a Peter batch box design. We have plenty of clay and sand and were planning on the traditional cob bench with 6" flue pipe. My question is which system ( traditional cob or stratification chamber) would more efficiently capture more heat? I already have the materials and being retired have the time to do the traditional cob. I'd appreciate any feedback as we will start doing our build in a week or two, many thanks

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

I'm sure peter would agree: stratification chamber is more efficient.

@Tonzarama 6 жыл бұрын

Paul thanks for the quick reply. Do you know how much cob Matt is using to cover his cut-in half 55 gal metal drums? I know the formula for burying the 6" pipe in a cob bench, but what is the formula to keep the buns warm without roasting the chestnuts in the stray chamber design?

@broaudio 6 жыл бұрын

Matt here, it depends on where in the system, burn habits, goals, and other variables. I typically end up with thicknesses in the 3"- 6" range in the thinnest section, over the top of the arch. Hope that helps.

@Tonzarama 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Matt, that definitely helps. Now that I know that the strat bench is the way to go, I'll need to figure out the configuration of drums in my available space. I'll send you a more complete design idea in the next couple of days after I take my final measurements if you wouldn't mind. We are very excited to get this project rolling as winter is finally showing up here at 8000'. Thanks again for all the wonderful posts that you and Paul have so freely shared with us all. Be well, be happy.

@tribalwind 6 жыл бұрын

broaudio With the system working on the draw/drafting effect of the chimney, would it not be sucking newly heated air out the exhaust before it has a chance to fully stratify down a long bench or other dead end run of mass?

@fred-san 2 жыл бұрын

cool meme moi j'ai compris avec ton schéma Sankyü.

@VeganRashad 3 жыл бұрын

Shorter oil barrel equals hotter bench.

@Authentique0 6 жыл бұрын

Concept is pretty cool ! How many have been done and does it really work ? I want to do a heated bench outside my newly built loghouse and I want the best system.

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

For rocket mass heaters ... hundreds of thousands. For rocket mass heaters with stratification chambers ... maybe a thousand?

@AnaMartinez-iw6rp 5 жыл бұрын

Hello, I must want to see, the end of proyect, Paul. It see intrestand, it can to be other form of Rocket mass hether. I hope you understand my bad inglish. I hope you request my. Thank you Paul. Anna

@SusanStoneSalas 6 жыл бұрын

Interesting! I like simple, and cheaper!

@Jkirk3279 3 жыл бұрын

It’s called a “smoke bell”.

@hillybeaner9689 6 жыл бұрын

The system would have to be sealed well or the cooler gases escape and everyone dies.

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

funny thing - we already made a video about that very point: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f6eSZpxjl66oaYk.html

@kylejones2075 5 жыл бұрын

If anyone has any ideas email or text me.

@patkonelectric 6 жыл бұрын

Yes you got all that science but matt has better hair then you. :)

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, my hair is thinning a bit ...

@jeremiahshine 6 жыл бұрын

Patrick Konshak Scientists must pass a lot of traffic through their heads they investigate.

@jeremiahshine 6 жыл бұрын

iwhile they investigate...or pretent.

@andrewyek 6 жыл бұрын

animation is understood-able, but the side of bench nearest to the heat output from the rocket stove will be stinky hot to be sit on, as compare to the further side of the bench. isn't it. unless u got a thick wall above. and less very much less mass in it as compare to the flue type of bench , hence maybe the heat won't last till morning. any number comparison ? :=) anyway, good work, that's how chinese in the older day did it to their sleeping bed.. just simply flue under the bed.. made very tight, so won't be poison by carbon monoxide during sleep.

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

Stinky? We have tested this. The heat spreads out really well and really evenly - provided that the stratification chamber is level. Less mass is, indeed, less mass. I think you are mentioning the kang bed stove - which, I thought, came from korea.

@andrewyek 6 жыл бұрын

i don't know abt korea, i do know my wife who is from china told me about it.. basically just channel underneath a mass.. not like with cob, but cement blocks and cement plate. maybe also fr korea, i don't know. korean, japan, china.. have reason to believe those ppl came from same place originally. lol it will be good if able to somehow put big cylinder tank of water under it to absorb the heat. paul, i was over a week in UK at the beginning of this year.. on a farm where we stay in container house (which is poorly insulated).. at night of freezing weather, i put a plastic warm bag with almost boiling water in my sleeping bag (2 layers of sleeping bags) and sleep in it.. it is wonderful, so warm and cosy .. a lot better than warm out the whole container.. and believe it or not, every morning i woke up with the rubber warm bag still warm to the touch.. still comfortable. i just bury the bag in the 2 layer of sleeping bag... and until evening, the bag is still warmer than the air temperature in the container.. which to me is still cold.. you know when in proper insulation, it retain warm for that long.. should be good for heat storage.. just that in this case it is metal container (which radiant the heat a lot faster) and we can use the warm water as well.. any idea , Paul ?

@paulwheaton 6 жыл бұрын

like hot water bottles?

@andrewyek 6 жыл бұрын

ya.. like this one. cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1311/8023/products/P1020174_74d19fdd-2bc1-4b68-ab58-0046ba3551d1_grande.jpg?v=1480000491