Bitwig once tried something similar - and they had to roll back. If the S1 community protest is loud enough this may will change one day.

Yeah it’s a lousy deal for the consumer…and you deal with it by speaking with your wallet. If no one goes for this Presonus will walk it back.

You'll be able to buy add-ons separately. They are fixing the website to allow for that

@@ELLIOT8209where did you see that?

​@@ridinglow6732presonus addressed it on FB

How do you use Luna?

And no subscription B.S.

Reaper cost 60?? 😮

@@adr7657Yup as long as you meet their license tier! And the license is good for 2 versions (i.e. 7.00 - 8.99).

Reaper has a lot of setup time, but makes up for it in a more capable DAW than S1 and others…

@@jasonjbundy I have like 7 daws on my pc (legally ofcourse) and yes Reaper might not be as much plug n play as other daws but it's in a league of it's own.

I’m always trying to improve!

Same here. Bought a Mac with Logic.

Same, I just did the cross grade from S1 6 pro and got Cubase 13 pro for 250 at Sweetwater. Subscription based products are BS. Greed!

@@fenixrizn8368 Me too. :)

Me too. I've been using S1 for around 9 years and have bought every major update. And I have calculated that a subscriber in the hybrid model has to stay in the subscription for around 10 years to have paid the same amount as a buyer. This is because for buyers, this total amount results from a degressive progression, for subscribers from a linear progression. Only after ten years is the total sum for subscribers higher than that of buyers. But no subscriber will stick with it for 10 years. So as a buyer, you pay more - and get even less in return. I have now pulled the ripcord and switched to Cubase via the Competetive Crossgrade - and I have no regrets, absolutely none! The workflow in version 13 is just as good as with S1, or at least it's a matter of getting used to it. And Cubase also offers considerably more editing options than S1 and much better stock plug-ins and instruments. Goodbye, Presonus!

FL is lifetime updates and won’t matter if you switch from Mac to windows. Logic cool too. But FL shouldn’t be mentioned with Ableton who charge their users every 12 months

​@@Reggi_SampleFL is cool, but Ableton definitely does not charge its users every 12 months. In fact it's been years since they've charged anyone.

What was the last hit song made with Logic or FL?

Welp. It ain’t a DAW. Somebody said Pro Tools is for professionals and Logic was for Hobbyists. It doesn’t sound better or worse. (I use Cubase btw.). I would rather sandpaper the anus of an alligator in a phone booth than work with midi in friggin pro tools. Most mundane friggin workspace ever, but people unanimously said it was serious and the others aren’t so whatever.. John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Ludwig Gorransson, Jacob Collier. That list goes on with absolute geniuses that don’t care what’s socially accepted as the standard

​@@franciscotoscano9924 So many top producers/songwriters use Logic. Anything FINNEAS and Billie Eilish have made, 90% chance it was produced in Logic, you can see FINNEAS break down the Logic sessions in a lot of videos. So that specifically includes "What Was I Made For" from the Barbie Movie, a session you can find on the channel Variety There are also countless examples with FL. Especially in the genre of hip-hop/rap. Metro Boomin's entire catalogue, including recent work he's on, can basically be summed as being produced in FL, it's what he uses. Specifically, ones you might have heard, Creepin' by 21 Savage and Heartless by The Weeknd. Go back in time a bit and you'll see that Avicii (RIP) used FL for most of his music, which includes Wake Me Up and Levels. Imo Wake Me Up is a timeless top 5 song to me and I liked that era of music so from that alone I don't doubt FL's capabilities Hard to actually pinpoint a hit that was made with Studio One. I'd love to find examples since I'm enamored by the DAW but I can't name any.

It's not really a sub. Think of it this way: you're buying Studio One Pro (with hybrid) and getting a safeguard that you will get the latest version a year from now to own for just $179. Much better than a sub where you keep nothing and better than just buying Studio One a month ago where it was $399. Presonus pissed me off too when they cancelled my sphere sub while I was away and then upped the price by $5 a month if I rejoined. Still you pay annually up front and get to keep a new version a year from now? Yeah it's buying, and buying at a good deal so I'll do it. Life's full of wasted $ on crap that does a lot less for us than this stuff.

I agree with you completely. I also saw the whole video from Barry. It can certainly be an advantage for us customers. But what really annoys me is not the subscription+, but the intention to "force" a subscription. It hopes you stick with it, because there are now a lot of goodies being added this year to keep people happy. I have nothing against subscriptions, but not like the graphics company, exclusively subscriptions. And I want to be able to buy the stuff when I want to buy it, even if it costs a bit more. I am aware that I can keep it after a year. But I want to be able to choose. And Presonus didn't do that at first. Why don't these software companies understand that subscriptions are not the majority? Why did Waves and Avid have to back down? Why do you get a UA Spark subscription for $99 for 2 years? Why does Rolandcloud always offer 2 perpetual licenses? Out of goodwill? Probably not. Not everyone is Adobe and not every customer is a professional earning a living. When will these software companies finally understand that? It is not the future and if it is, it must never be.

I am aware that the offer is fair. What annoyed me, however, is the obligation to take out a subscription. Have you noticed that UAD offers the Spark subscription for 2 years for $99? Every software company tries to offer a subscription model that entices people to take out a subscription, but doesn't realize that they are not Adobe. For me are Subs not the future, because the most don't like this model.

Every two years makes sense.

Ppl don’t understand when they came from another daw

There are not enough features for us Pro users to upgrade. Even the new DAW exchange format, that is also supported by Bitwig, I use most of the time, wasn‘t as good to invest 150 bugs.

@@RJEnriquez This is what is missing in the math. It's not a $150 upgrade vs. a $180 sub model as what Johns is calling a "no brainer". Rather, S1 has long had a 2-year upgrade cycle. So, in a 2-year cycle, it is $150 vs. $360. So, you need to make sure that the $210 extra is worthwhile. Now, that said, you could subscribe for 1 year for the extra $30. And then sit out the 2nd year. And then Johns is right again.

@@craigallen7980 Yes, upgrade every 2 years, and you won’t miss any major updates. That is how I see it.

You can still do that with Studio One, this is just another option.

Im pretty sure you still get to have your original license for the actual perpetual version. If you are unsure, just subscribe with a different account from the one you already have the fullsoftware so that it doesnt mess anything up. However, please note that when you unsubscribe you lose access to lead architect and the extra content on the subscription. So if you used stuff from there to your projects those are gonna be missing until you renew. Kinda fucked up to be honest, and the extra content is not worth to pay for if you already have a perpetual license. lead architect is a cool gimmick but you can find much better synths literally for free

@@adrianpaul3749 Yes, you are right. There is no way to get the new synth without subscribing to Hybrid. I don't know what justifies PreSonus dividing their top users into 2 groups, Pro users and Hybrid users. It is difficult for me as a user to trust a company that behaves like this.

It is true that you will lose your virtual synth after the subscription has ended, but I've heard they are working on a way to buy add-ons individually. And you will not lose access to old projects after the year subscription because you get a perpetual license of the current version at the time your subscription ends, probably 7.3 by then. So you will be able to access old projects, just not use the plugins available only for plus members. It's great for me because I probably won't resubscribe, and I don't want to buy a perpetual now, especially since version 7 is around the corner. By getting hybrid now, I'll be sure to get version 7 a year from now. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zr6AiNR1zJqvk4U.html

@@IsaacLeath Thank you. I Watched that video yesterday. The concept is clear to me. If they let us buy the add-ons individually including the new Synth it would be wonderful for all of us. Everybody can choose their preferred way. Win-win for everyone.

That's why I always print my midi to an audio track now. Learned the hard way. Had a subscription to "said" company and almost all my music had the synth that came with the subscription. Once I canceled i lost the synth. Still had the midi obviously, but they never were the same when I used another synth. So now I print or even record an audio track or what I'm playing. That way I always have it if something happens to the vst I was using. If that makes sense 🤘

@@MiggyCrash excellent! Never thought to do that. My plan was to somehow never allow myself to get attached by not using them too much. That's the bait, to get you on a perpetual licensef or life, I'm still on version 5 and I'm actually considering moving to cubase 13 pro. All the stock plugins seam miles above S1. And there is a 30% sale right now until April 28 with free aftermarket plugs. They have those crossgrade feature, if you are coming from another daw you get close to 50% off the price of cubase. And the upgrade price to next version is $69. They have a pricier initial price of the daw, but upgrading to the new version every 2 years for $69 sure beats any subscription plan that S1 can offer. I'm seriously considering going this way and using 2 daws for a while, and maybe do a complete switch

But people have to buy a mac first, and then expensive hardware upgrades

I address all nothing the video.

as far as I understand it, yes.

@@ettiennelane9173 would you get melodyne and keep it too?

I always believe at the conclusion of a mix you should print all effects/plugins.

Reaper is my jam for very specific reasons. If you’re interested I list a couple of them in a post in this thread. Have a nice one.

This is exactly how I'm thinking as well. What I would like right now is the ability to subscribe at a cheaper cost for the plugins since I just bought Studio One Pro, coming from Cubase.

Because the are some features that Logic doesn’t have.

Simply commit them to a track. Easy.

there is NOTHING wrong with REAPER. It has features other DAW haven't caught up with. It updates at least once a month ...and it's as STABLE as the day is long. Most who whine about it say "it doesn't come with 'free' virtual instruments". That was the biggest reason I tried it in the first place, I didn't want my storage loaded with VSTi' crap. I also heard people complain that it does 'too much' ...now that's a real problem isn't it.

As a Reaper user, the biggest complaint I've seen people make that the lack of pretty UI and intuitiveness which I'd argue against it since everything you can do in reaper can be found in the action list and also lack of loops and instruments which is again would've been a problem before internet but nowadays there are probably millions of free plugins and sample packs.

It does come with future bug fixes, they addressed this with their launch video.

@@BarryJohns Well - yes however if you cancel on 6.5.2 - you had better hope there is a 6.5.3 - because you do not get v6.6.0 (which of course ALWAYS contains a truckload of bug fixes (usually big ones) in addition to new features. If one cancels their sub and sits on a version - it's now a crapshoot. (Did I quit on a "solid" one? Or not?) Only time will tell. I did finally clarify that IF a Hybrid user quits and gets their new perpetual license (even if it's non-updating) they can parlay that into an "old school" perp license at the usual price of $149.00 - so that is a relief.

Happened to Cakewalk too...got bought TWICE and killed the best software outside of Pro Tools (the orginal pro tools)...Cakewalk only stared making a comeback when their intellectual rights were bought and made FREE...,and guess what it JUST happened with NAtive Instruments too..who were bought and hALF of their programmers were let go

I hesitated to be "that guy" who responds to this saying REAPER, but honestly it's the first thing I thought. I just hope Justin's business model (low overhead, owner still coding) is sustainable. Barry is right though, subscription or annual perpetual may be the right option for some.

What? Apple never said Logic offers lifetime upgrades. You always had to pay from Logic 1 to X. You get free upgrades on version X, but it does not mean that it's free forever. Think intelligently. Get over it

@@user-hz9kl6ji5s 10 years and counting of free updates for X. Think intelligently and get over yourself lol

if you a beatmaker ok, if you mix music then no FL is not good

@@LaidbackSounds Plenty of people mix on FL …. What are you talking about 😂

@@user-hz9kl6ji5s how long has version X been out? Since 2013. Lmfao 🤣 so you are complaining about getting free upgrades for a decade……..and Apple bought logic from Emagic in 2004. So Logic Pro 7 to X and you are complaining about 3 paid upgrades…..who the hell is using logic 1-9 since 2013? Don’t worry I’ll wait for that response. It doesn’t even matter… name your Daw after your original purchase and you have a workflow there is no need to upgrade your DAW especially if you use outboard gear.

Good point.

it's not that simple really, even on Windows it's just a matter of time you get into artificial software obsolence especially with audio device drivers (unless you got RME), latest OS builds may (temporarily) break some functionality too, indeed with Windows you get longer worry-free time, but not forever - even back in the day of early Windows 7 things were mess when apps and plugins moved from 32bit to 64bit, and now recently end of VST/VST2 support in favour of VST3 complicates compatibility of daws vs. plugins again, and few weeks/months from now, Qualcomm pushes some finally usable ARM-based Windows laptops, which will kick in issues similar to what's been going on with Apple's Silicon transition few years back.... my point is - Macs and PCs are computers, not hardware units like analog gear which can work "same" for decades, balance of stability, features, security etc.. in IT is a never-ending wheel :D

because Apple sneakily forces you to buy new Macs fairly often if you want to have latest Logic Pro, and because UA dinosaur isn't really pushing Luna forward in features/bugfixes, which also means small user base with almost no support community

Fax

You're spot on ! Hands down the best DAW on the market.

Really?

Reaper has been out for years and is still ranked last in DAWS. They need to change their GUI.

@@DaMixWizard Reaper is one of the youngest daw that's considered a major daw, it came out a decade after most standard daw. and when it comes to ranking, Reaper has no marketing or anything like that, Reaper is literally the industry standard for game audio, you'd need to know how to use Reaper to get a job in game audio.

I don’t agree.

@@BarryJohns Of course you dont, wont get freebies from companies if you point out all the problems will you.

@@BarryJohns S1 is increasingly unsuitable for the production of electronic music. And the comment above is right: S1 is old-fashioned and has not evolved with the modern way of making music. The note FX (chorder, arpeggiator, sequencer etc.) have not changed since version 3 and in terms of sound design S1 is way behind. The midi editor is below average, the pattern editor is cumbersome and inflexible. SampleOne has no dynamic modulation options at all and ImpactXT is little more than a simple rompler - not even remotely comparable to GrooveAgent or Battery. Editing the respective sample, for example, is not possible at all, neither time stretch nor time-based modulation or the like. You need separate plug-ins for everything - and then usually from third-party manufacturers. S1 may still be good as a studio DAW, but as a tool for sound design and electronic music, it has been neglected for far too long.

reapers menus and outdated retro, interface is very uninspiring and headache inducing

The software industry is not new. Subscriptions are. Subscriptions are corporate greed at its worst. No subscriptions. Ever.

Subscribtion forcing are of sure not great business. And survive are a dream, when you try as company to force a sub. Read the opinion against sub, are much more. What have to end are subcribtion-forcing.

How has Black Magic been able to provide DaVinci Resolve for free? It is one of the most powerful video editors out there, even among paid ones. I think people don't have a problem paying for a DAW. I certainly am happy to pay for my DAW. The issue is with underhanded tactics and corporate greed.

Great companies should develop products that people are willing to pay for - and not circumvent market influence with subscriptions. And S1 has never been free, not even for buyers whose total amount paid increases progressively with each purchase of an update. So what is your comment supposed to say?

You own this at the end. You get something pertinent in return rather than an endless rental.

you dont have listening skills I see. This is a MUSIC channel, meaning all that's going on with the space

yea let's pretend a 10-year old Mac flawlessly runs latest MacOS Ventura (which is required for latest Logic Pro) lolz

@@TazzSmk yeah let's pretend you gonna stay w that compurer forever lolz geez get over yourself S1 is such a bad deal for what I get from this vid, but to be honest Idc what u do

@@Joe_Rainey I'm not advocating for S1 don't worry xD just saying Apple will get money from selling you new Macbook, they can totally afford letting you use "lifetime" Logic license :)) btw it seems Apple is going subscription too, at least that's what Logic on iPad is...

@@TazzSmk I don’t believe main Logic Pro will go that route, as you say, they prob rather sell you the new computer. The updates throughout the years have been pretty good too.