For what it's worth, there is a tutorial when you pick up the first record that tells you listening makes you more human.

Pat talks out his ass about the difficulty of the true ending requirements for 6 minutes.

Another thing I adore about Lies of p are the small Easter eggs and details you won’t notice. Like if you go near the stargazer after lying enough times you can see P’s shadow having an extended nose.

One of the "Your Gears are Shifting" moments I really enjoyed in the demo was when you get the clothes from the old lady and you can trigger it by using the emote it gives you to show off your new clothes to her.

One of the best things I had seen in the demo was that if you die in the boss room your souls are RIGHT OUTSIDE the door so you have a slightly better chance of getting them back lol

I’m gonna put myself on blast and say that I really didn’t expect Lies of P to be good. Thought it was going to be another attempt at cloning the souls formula while missing the big points that make it enjoyable. Nope. Somehow the devs captured souls perfectly and even improved on it in some areas. What a complete victory

Even with Lies of P's flaws is very easily one the better Souls-likes by a huge margin. It's cool to see a random developer I've never heard of almost nail it on the first try.

The humanity requirement to unlock the "true ending" is fairly lenient, the only thing with a very strict humanity requirement is the secret weapon.

Whenever people say that the last chunk of Elden Ring is bad I get all defensive about how great Farum Azula and the Haligtree are, but then I realize that they’re actually talking about the Mountaintops and the Consecrated Snowfield, and I’m like “yeah that’s pretty valid actually”

After the release of Elden Ring, I was worried the Souls formula would stagnate as other Soulslikes (including Fromsoft) would choose to simply reimplement the Souls combat, and allthough I like it, it's clear that enemies are getting more complex while the player was still stuck with a moveset that hasn't changed much since Demon Souls. The way this game takes elements from Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro and puts their own spin on it to create a different experience is so impressive for a 1st attempt.

Id say Lies of P probably has a better final stretch at the end because it has a greater focus on story compared to your average FromSoft Souls game. You actually have a sense of real investment in where you are or what'll happen next instead of just "Ok guess ill just go here now to fight a final boss that appears out of nowhere and had basically no buildup".

It's kinda strange that for all of Pat's excitement, he leaves out what would get Woolie the most hype about LoP- the weapons. The ability to disassemble and basically use whatever moveset and whatever Fable moves you want would lead to SO MUCH labbing. Also the entire existence of the Two Dragons katana.

To add more context to the music player thing which also seems to keep following the theme. Early in the game the record player is kind of just off in a corner by itself and there really isnt anything to pull the player to it, however, after a certain point Sophia will move over to the record player regularly and the record player begins to emit a golden glow like its trying to pull your attention to it. They really want people to listen to those tracks they put all that money into making lol.

My favorite Souls boss that pits you against more than 1 enemy is the Demon Prince from Dark Souls 3's Ringed City DLC. It's basically a puzzle that has 2 demons that switch between states from time to time. One is very agressive, and the other attacks using toxic clouds from a distance. Even though the other demon is offscreen, his attacks have very clear telegraphs that warn you to dodge away when appropriate. And akin to Ornstein and Smough, deciding which demon to kill 1st will affect the moveset of the Demon Prince itself. To me, that's still the best executed gank boss.

I loved LoP. But I will admit the translation job was rough. You won’t really notice it with the dialogue; I’m sure the devs put extra effort there to make sure the VAs would know what they were saying (early game footage had subtitles that were very hard to read and were partially voiced). But item descriptions and journal pickups are a bit harder to understand. It muddies the world-building. Even in gameplay, there were localization issues as recent as the demo. The demo had an enemy state called Groggy, but it was renamed to staggerable in the release version.

The Record player reminds me of the music in Death Stranding if Kojima ranked your delivery poor if you didnt listen to the whole song before making a delivery. Its like "No! Sit down and listen."

As I've explained to other people: Even FROM has attempted in vain to recapture the lightning in the bottle that was the Ornstein and Smough fight, because they keep making it be you vs. 2 bosses. The fight is not balanced around the overall experience. This is why the hardest fight in Wo Long is against those three nobody retainers of the Sun clan. They just all rush you. The Black Rabbit Brotherhood in Lies of P is not you vs. 4 bosses. It is you vs. 4 people who COLLECTIVELY make up 1 boss. One of them will take point, it's obvious who's taking point, and while the others will still get involved, they will not be all rushing you together. Also, Lords of the Fallen is almost certainly going to get killed by this thing. The amount of polish in LoP is insane, and we're already seeing videos about LotF having serious design problems.

You don't have to stay near the music player, you just need to put the song on and let it play while you go level up and upgrade your gear.

That listening to music requirement reminds me of how the Metro games handle the "moral" system. Where it's less about doing a morally right or wrong thing and more about having a more complete picture of the world, and doing things that connect to what is humanity, with it's good and bad things

He didn't even get into the fact that the gameplay is incredibly rewarding and fun to master. Great weapons to use and in general just a great atmosphere really help amplify that.

I think the records were great collectables. “Feel” was such a good first song, that it made me very motivated to find the others.

The Black Rabbit fight becomes way easier when you realize that you can backstab the other three rabbits.

Loved Lies of P such a great game!

Played the demo and enjoyed it but I will probably get this game when its on sale.

the amount lies of P commits to certain souls like trends... regardless of whether or not those trends are well liked. from serious platforming complete with carcass new londo archers all the way to being able to lock yourself out of certain quests 5 chapters before your even allowed to participate in them. this all makes the fact that its almost entirely linear except for one area particularly strange.... also: you only need like 75%ish of the available humanity, i intentionally told the truth when i thought it was appropriate and still got the white hair ending first try

Weapon durability is objectively more engaging than in FromSoft games. Instead of being a chore you have to remember to do on occasion it’s an actual gameplay mechanic in extended boss fights, and can make your choice of secondary weapon a much more interesting decision.

Yeah, I'm not feeling that comment about Fromsoft games getting bad at the end. For Bloodborne and Elden Ring I can kinda see it, but for Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro? No. But we're never gonna agree on Sekiro so it's fine.

the perfect ending is less strict then everyone claims it to be, i didnt lie a bunch and still got it my first run. it more depends on a specific chose near the end of the game

Just beat the thing yesterday. Definitely one of the better Soulslike games out there, but the difficulty feels needlessly overtuned. Cool world though, very Dishonored-esque.

the sound test being integral for the true ending is the most "me" thing of all time

You can actually walk around the hotel hub, even go to the training grounds when listening to the music records, you don't have to sit and watch the playlist menu as it plays

Not only improved on the formula, it also runs BETTER (flawless even) than several fromsoft games at launch. The music from the records is fantastic, it's always a delight getting a new one and put it on the music player back at the hotel.

calling "the last 15% of every souls game" bad is such a ridiculous claim overtuned? yeah, they kinda gotta be, maybe not, i can't think of a better implementation, and they could be better "really bad, and you kinda forget about them"? absolutely not

Pat and Woolie explained dietetic, right after I had just looked it up because of them lol

I just did the 1st 4v1 boss Pat is talking about ....and yea, they kick my ass a lot , but I really enjoyed it how it when about the encounter

i dont know if this is a long term thing, but im glad you're giving these more straight forward titles now. half the time, it was the only reason i wasnt clicking on a video because i had no idea what it was about.

Playing on 1.0, I did NOT like the last stretch of the game. The final area is beautiful, but the last few bosses went from "hard but fun" to "frustrating and not fun". I heard it they turned them down in a patch, but I definitely have no desire go back for a NG+ playthrough. Glad I got it through Game Pass and didn't have to pay full price

I was actually just thinking about the way AC handles it's multi boss fights and I think there's both complaints to be had but many props to be given as well. In most cases you aren't fighting multiple units at the same time for the entirety of the fight, many starting as 2v2 then your partner has to dip out for damage or plot reasons, while some others start as a 1v1 and at a mid point transition into 1v2. Usually the second boss to come in during those fights doesn't have 3 heals available to them and the encounter is made easier by switching focus to the joining unit and then back to the "main" boss. The largest complaint I've had with multi boss fights in AC is one mission in particular where if you don't clear fast enough you can fight up to 3 enemy ACs at once and it's nightmarish to wrestle back into a winable state. While they don't deviate too much from the predictable presentation of the multi boss fights I can say they at least feel largely more manageable and less frustrating once you understand the fight

Absolutely adored this game. Easily one of the best souls games and one of the best of the year. Very excited to see what they do next

The post-release patches have done wonders for Lies Of P!

Its really good, but like evey souls game could always use a few tweaks. I think fromsoft is very against taking notes form other games tho, or at least many hardcore fans are.

this podcast is my saving grace at work thank you

I enjoyed 95% of lies of P but some of those last few bosses were ehh. I guess when lies of P wants to add a boss they consider hard, they give them anime combos with effects everywhere so you can't see and have an unblockable move where they lunge full screen so you can't dodge. So annoying...

Man, shadows of yharnam was great in teaching how to deal with 3 ads, much appreciated that they eventually become regular jobbers too.

Kinda funny how Pat hated DS2 because a lot of the bosses were humanoids with big weapons... When that's the majority of this games bosses as well.

I just finished it. It’s an awesome souls game. I’m excited for their future games :)

It's actually really not that hard to get the true ending. Pat just talking straight out of his ass.

Great game, but still very noticeably a ‘double-A’ title; it’s got some rough edges that don’t necessarily bring down the experience, but you still can’t help but notice them. For instance, I’m firmly convinced all the in-game item and skill descriptions are machine-translated based on how misleading and generally _off_ a lot of their word choice and grammar structure makes them feel.

There is a hint that pops up and says listening to music makes you more human! Leave it to Pat to find SOMETHING to pester

Okay that stuff with the records is pretty friggin cool. I knew about the lying mechanic but not that

damn been a while since we had such a good thumbnail

I think the perfect block system is something Fromsoft and other soulslike games should mostly adopt going forward in place of the traditionally clunky/gimmicky parry system, for a variety of reasons. I also think Lies of P's healing is fundamentally better than previous souls games, not just because of the fact you can recharge your last heal if you deplete it, which is great imo, but because the heal isn't so slow that you have to rely on a degree of RNG to avoid getting hit like in Dark Souls and Elden Ring. Most people view the slow healing animation is an example of the action commitment that souls games are known for in a positive regard, but I have always considered the slow healing to be a fundamental flaw in souls games, because the fact is that most bosses can close the gap and hit you at will during the animation, especially in the newer games like DS3 and Elden Ring, which means you are almost always relying on luck and boss ai leniency in order to heal on a reasonably consistent basis.

I still haven't beaten lies of p ,and now there's lords of the fallen coming out as well as spiderman 2 and then star ocean 2 remake shortly after. I can't keep up lol

People.

Thank you Game Pass for allowing many people to enjoy this game

Maybe someone else can confirm this for me but I think Lies of P might stop scaling after NG++, because I'm on NG+++ and I don't notice any difference in ergo dropped or enemy hp/damage. I feel like Scrapped Watchmen should've hit me for WAY more damage if it continued to scale but he was hitting me for like 20-25% of my hp at best for non-fury moves.

ad fights are one main boss, with extra lesser enemies. By definition. Ad = additional. You have additional enemies to what's typically just the one "big" boss

Stuff Lies Of P Does Worse Than Fromsoft: forces you to play as a femboy

Yeah, lies of P was just incredible

I am glad the game was picked up by Microsoft to be on gamepass, it means they got money up front for it and they might have already paid for the development just from that, so, all these sales they are getting is profit for them

My friends won’t shut up about Lies of P and I’m still on the fence on getting it.

Does the game feel better than in the Demo? Because I didn't finish the demo because the dodge and parry felt like ass there and basically convinced me not to buy the game.

Pat just watched the how does king crimson work video 😏

Wait. The last 15% of Elden Ring WASN'T good?

Great numb nail!

I didnt know Louis CK was a gamer.

Of course pat forgets that everything fromsoft has made started with kingsfield 1-4, lost kingdoms 1 and 2 armored cores and every other game they have made led to dark souls..... bloodborne and elden ring... the only reason lies of p even exists is because from soft have spent nearly 30 years making the same game but next time better....

I tried lies of P beta and the combat didn't really click with me.

i wanna get into this game but i truly and honestly cannot get over the fact that pinocchio looks like a timothee chalamet twink. like please for the love of god why couldnt he have just been like a wooden guy. or like a 10 year old boy or something

Honestly I tried the demo and just hated the sekiro style block mechanic. Really cool game overall but that makes it so hard to play. That said I agree it improves on some aspects but I hesitate to call that stuff “improving the formula”

What the hell is "ad fight"???

Picked up Lies on a whim, and so glad I did. It has flaws, but goddamn is it a good game.

I'm sorry but "the way enemies react, the enemy variety" is such a bullshit statement. Lies of P makes no discernable improvement on those two things. If anything Sekiro is the gold standard for how enemies react given the built in deflect system certain enemies have. The Ashina Isshin and Father Owl fights have the ability to dodge attacks as well as deflect (Owl will mikiri counter you if you telegraph a thrust attack, and during his long vertical slash he will turn and spin if you dodge too early). Even ER has Malenia who will dodge back and most bosses have flow chart like moves based on your positioning (like Maliketh and Margit). Radagon and other enemies will also parry spells and if they have a shield they will perform counter attacks. Enemy moveset and reaction design is one of Fromsoft's strongest qualities along with level design. Also, Lies of P does not have more enemy variety than DS3 or ER. Regarding the "last 15%" comment, Sekiro and DS3 have amazing late-game areas and bosses. I'd even argue that ER's late game bosses and legacy dungeons are pretty great (besides a few exceptions).

I've finally been playing lies of P and I'm getting bored, combat just doesn't feel nearly as good as in any From game. Most attacks have massive delays and a bunch of fakeouts with extremely fast atacks making it impossible to react, you gotta learn the timing. Many animations take way too long to be cancelable so combat feels unresponsive. Enemies either have no poise at all or way too much... I have way more complaints which is a shame, my first impression was great and there's a lot of good but it's the details where they got it wrong. I'm like 75% through and will probably drop it.

I think it a great game, I dunno about it being a perfect game or goty but personally I would rate it a 8/10. There's plenty of things that need balance fixes (I played at launch so it may be fixed by now) as well as some bosses that are simply poorly designed. The last 10-20% is as bad as you expect a souls game to be in that last section. Personally I take issue with the game being too linear as well. All that being said, it's still the best soulslike that doesn't come from Fromsoft. Nioh doesn't count cause those games feel closer to Ninja Gaiden than Souls and if you were to compare Nioh to this I like Nioh waaaay better personally, those two games get a 9/10 from me.

Sorry Pat those boss fights involving those 4 bosses together was probably the worst fights I’ve ever seen in a souls game ever but i could just be bad at the game. Either way really enjoyed lies of P, probably the best souls like game not made by from soft

You know, over the years i've heard of some pretty weird requirements to 100% a game. But. Never have i ever heard of a game that went *"hey, listem to my mixtape"* if you wanted to get the true ending for it.

Agree to disagree about the last part of elden ring being less quality than the rest but definitely looking forward to bloodborne Pinocchio edition

A someone who mostly enjoys the Souls games for their amazing exploration and is utterly tired of "OMG SO HARD" apparently being the only design lesson other devs (and most players honestly) are taking from FROM, Lies of P just left me completely cold and I dropped it about halfway in. I don't care as much about combat being tight and satisfying. I do prefer it, but it's ultimately just a means to an end for me. And for how much emphasis the game put on its combat in lieu of many other things, it frankly didn't do enough with it to keep me interested.

Liza Pea

I like that Pinocchio actually uses his weapons when performing executions. It took me out of Bloodborne when the hunter just used his/her bare hand for the visceral attacks. Like why? Take that sawblade and blunderbuss and shove ‘em up the pig monster’s @$$!

Is Pat unironically saying the black rabbit brotherhood is a good bossfight and BETTER than abyswatchers? lmao I like Lies of P but this fight oof

also Pinocchio is hot in it

The shadows all have their own health bars so that made no sense

Rant Incoming: My big thing is the dodge off of the ground is locked behind the Phase 2 upgrades and by that point, a good chunk of the bosses attacks knock you to the ground. You in return, CAN’T get off the ground without a painfully slow animation and there’s enemies that can straight repeatedly knock you and Stunlock you on the ground, that one larger fire enemy with the shovel in particular, and you just have to sit there. That sucks, and the fact that the way to mitigate that is an UPRADE TO YOUR BASIC MOVEMENT just gives the game a level of tedium for me that definitely frustrates me. Another thing is basic enemy attacks. Some of them just go on and on and really start to wear out their welcome. The infected individuals in particular. I’m not asking for DS1 combo’s but damn are some of them lengthy. The last thing that bothers me is the dodging and guarding mechanics. They clearly want Bloodborne dashing and Sekiro guarding but I feel like the game doesn’t deliver to a satisfying degree on either. The dash is stiff and the distance you move is pitiful comparatively to Bloodborne. The guard, likewise, doesn’t have the benefit of a posture meter to give you a visually meaningful way to gauge your progress on how much your perfect guarding actually is contributing and if you DO fill that invisible meter, you need to land a charges hit to actually take advantage of it. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want a replica of Fromsoft, and I like Lies of P, I like it a lot, but damn if the game doesn’t feel stiff and awkward.

Pat is lucky he isn't a game journo, he'd never make a dime.😂

Pointing to Chai is quite possibly the worst choice Pat could have made to describe diegesis

Is it better than the best souls like though? (It’s Sekiro btw). Also about time a game force you to listen to a song all the way through, no one does that shit these days even though everyone should.

Imma be honest: I really hate Lies of P’s combat. Maybe it gets better after the factory’s last boss but after beating it I felt no sense of accomplishment, only a sense of “God I wish I was playing Sekiro instead of this.” So I went and re-beat Sekiro and it was a way better time.

Like.

For me it just sucks since i can't really get into games without a character creator anymore, so Lies of P is just not an option due to autism

Lies of P recycles the hell out of basic enemies and combines the most annoying parts of Bloodborne and Sekiro boss design. The weapons are good.

Still not as good as Nioh 2 though. But Nioh 2 is the current king.

Honestly, Lies of P might beat out Bloodborne for me. The Sekiro-esque defense system works really well with the aggressive enemies (and isn't a limited resource), the handle/blade system was way more compelling for me that the transforming weapons and actually had me considering how I approached each boss rather than just picking the one form I liked like I would 9 times out of ten in BB, the aesthetic of the puppets/creatures does more for me than werewolves/eldrich stuff, and they make every stat feel actually USEFUL, unlike Arcane.. Like Pat mentioned last time, it even has a really cool take on the Estus/Blood Vials system! I also appreciate a more straightforward story with more direct setup and payoff. It's a game that doesn;t just copy stuff that the Souls (and Sekiro) games do, but it feels like it actually considers them and how they work, and how they would work in THIS game. My only complaint is how the game is way more balanced towards a Dex build cuz you have NO armor on your heavies.

It's not like Bloodborne at all besides couple similar designs. If I went into this expecting more Bloodborne I would have been very disappointed.

Single handedly stole the bloodborne PC audience

It’s a shame the game has a really dumb name

Lies of P is great to me it stands above D3 Sekiro and Demon Souls/DS remake

even if lies of P is better than I've heard, which I doubt. These are some of the hottest, stupidest, most wrong-est takes on souls-borne games I have ever heard.

I'm sorry but 2 hrs into lies of p I'm not enjoying it