The reverse headstock has a lot to do with it. The wound strings do not require as severe of a break angle. I had the same issue and replaced the nut with a well cut graph tech along with "nut sauce" and made taller spacers for the string trees. Eliminating the trees would have worked also, but I didn't want to leave empty screw holes in the head. I also installed graph tech saddles, but I'm not 100% sure they were needed.

If you wanna fix your tuning issues just try spinning around 720 degrees whilst jumping up and down three times whilst singing the lyrics to "Let It Be" and all of your tuning issues will be fixed. I did it to all of my guitars and this neat trick worked on all of them.

This trick actually worked for me. I have been battling this guitar for months and can finally enjoy it. Thanks for the tip Ryan! I owe you a reverb pedal 😊

So doing this with mine. Thanks Ryan! I love what you've done with your guitar. Most badass colour on a Super Sonic I've seen.

This absolutely and totally fixed my tuning issues. I've now played the guitar a month without needing to tune more than every hour or so of play. I can't expect better than that. More so, now it's sound is just crazy. It's made it an even more slightly raw and aggressive tone. Thanks so much Ryan! You nailed it. Fender, remove the string trees from all future produced Super Sonic guitars.

So staggered tuners (locking or not) would be the best bet. That or putting some type of spacer and a much longer screw to make the string trees taller

Thanks for the advice! You are right and think it feels much better playing it overall now. Genius!

Glad you sorted the tuning out, but the real winner of this video is that fresh trim you're rocking!

That paint job is sharp. I just did a similar color for my friends Festival short scale with a gold foil pickup. I put a metallic undercoat on it and did a little bit of a relic job. Turned out cool. The kill switch on your supersonic is a nice touch.

I was close with my suggestion. I had a feeling it was with the string trees, but i thought you just werent lubing them with the nut sauce. Glad you figured it out though.

My goodness haha! I think I would be subscribed even if I wasn't into guitars. Your laugh and expressions are just the best

That guitar is sooooo sick. Glad you found a fix.

Thanks for the tip. I'm not refinishing mine, though. The shell pink is part of the reason I bought it ;-)

Hey, FWIW I’m an engineer…… let me help you…please: The reason strings go SHARP when you dive down on a whammy bar, is because something ever so slight is mechanically catching your strings at the headstock. When you dive, you you loosed string tensions, which allows the strings to slide forward thru the nut slot, under the string trees and it can even slightly loosening the wraps around your tuning pegs. When you release the whammy bar, any sharp edge and/or friction between string winds can hold the string forward, thereby pulling the string sharp. TRY THIS-->. To see/feel what I mean, gently lay your left index finger over the strings, but up against the back f the nut, on headstock side. Now, with your right hand slowly dive the whammy bar. I find it helps to keep my guitar on my lap and use a snug fitting strap to make sure the guitar itself makes no movement. You should feel the strings sliding ever so slightly, back and forth under you finger. Anything that inhibits that motion, no matter how slight, can and will affect your tuning stability. So….. First, the break angle might not be the issue, but you can remove your string trees or raise them by adding a second bushing and a slightly longer screw. Also, when you remove your string trees, buff the undersides AND THE EDGES to a super smooth shine and lube the bottoms with graphite before reinstalling. Vintage style Fender string trees have sharp square edges that can catch strings as they attempt to slide past. The 2000 grit wet dry paper will work, but for polishing metal parts, I use a cheap, battery powered Dremmel-like tool, with cotton buffing bits and some inexpensive buffing compound. Amazon has combo kits for very little money. Also, in addition to the nut “sanding,” (or buffing, rather) that you’ve done, it is important to carefully to take any sharp edges off the nut ends of slots. I also use the folded over sand paper, but ever so slightly swipe at an angle over the front and rear edges of the slots. So, to recap, the goal to achieve stable tuning to to eliminate all possible square corners, sharp edges and friction on the headstock end of your guitar. (Note, I do also polish and lubricate the saddle slots as well). Oh and talking “lube”, my favorite “lubricant” is finely powdered graphite. It comes in a tube and costs about $4. Way back when I was a Cub Scout, my Dad and I used the same stuff to lubricate the axle nails on my troop winning Pinewood Derby Car!!. But seriously, It is black like pencil graphite, so use it sparingly. But with the tube type of packaging, it has a fine point with a hole in it, and you can put a small “puff” at each of your contact/friction points; the nut slots, back of the string trees and on each wrap around your tuning peg. Also, as I mentioned on your other video, make sure you have perfect wraps (no string crossings) and minimal turns, to also reduce the surface area for friction. I use two wraps on The E A D “wound strings” and 3 to 4 on the G B E smooth strings. A FINAL COMMENT REGARDING TUNERS: cheap, malfunctioning tuners, can turn under string tension. This would only happen when you bend or pull up on your bar (assuming a floating trem.). Bad tuners, allow your strings to go FLAT, not sharp, as they lengthen the strings under temporary tension increases, then go flat, when that increased tension is released.

I think the main problem with reverse headstock guitars is that you are putting the string trees on the wound strings. They have more friction compared to the plain strings. Maybe a Reverend style string tree or a roller tree would be better

Thanks for a great tip. I really enjoyed the previous video too. Greetings from NZ.

My strat also had two string trees, I removed one of them which was innecessary (strings 3 & 4). The other was raised with a string ball-end so the break angle is just the necessary and the friction is minimized. Lube on the string tree of course. If you have a couple of seconds during the song after heavy use of the tremolo, a good trick is to bend the strings (playing or in silent), that will restore fairly well the pitch of the detuned strings.

I always assumed the point of a reverse headstock was to squash the need for string trees by giving the b and high e the proper break angle by default.

Thank you very much! I solved the problem on my brand new super-sonic immediately by following your method！You are an angel！

Guitar techs hate him!

I love the guitar but it was impossible to play in a show... I struggled a lot and couldn't get it to tune. you are a genious!!!!!!!!!

This is actually super helpful. Going to try this in the AM.

gotta say man, that paint job you did looks really cool. Mine looks so boring to me now

Thanks man. I’m going to try this tonight. Love the guitar but the tuning stability is frustrating

im much less hesitant to pick this guitar up someday now. Thanks.

I don't put much stock into Graphtecs materials. I've they're nuts on my guitar and can still get binding at the nut. I'd recommend a roller tree vs the Graphtec one, but if it's working without, that's great. It's just annoying it leaves holes in the headstock if you want to remove them. I fitted sperzel staggered tuners to two strats. One I don't mind the holes on, the other, I fitted roller trees just to cover the holes. The roller trees I use actually have the break point to one side of the screw too, so for the same screw position as you have you can have a tighter or a more relaxed break angle over the nut.

Hi Ryan - Two years ago I had a buddy bring in his guitar (super strat) with the same kind of issues. To fix his took replacing the nut with a Fender LSR roller nut plus installing staggered tuners as well. Tuning issues disappeared plus I was able to get almost perfect intonation and a lower string height too. He still is gigging with his guitar and has only needed to change out strings when they start to sound dull. Just another idea to considerr - have a great weekend!

If you look at old demo vids of the fender pawnshop version you'll see that they didn't come with string trees at all

IT WORKS!!!! IT REALLY WORKS!!! Now I can use the tremolo too. Gracias Ryan, saludos desde España.

The problem I had with mine was the Block under the bridge. The metal was so soft that the ball ends got stuck in there and wedged in a strange spot. My fix was to replace it with a brass block. The only downfall was that the trem bar was a different size, but I don't use it much on this guitar anways.

Wow that colour is amazing. Esowcially with the distressed/faded look.

I agree with all who point to reverse headstock being why this worked... I have two cheap (very very) cheap guitars with reverse and did not add trees to one and it is very stable. There is some science in the wound string length above nut and not having same issues as unwound.

Another awesome episode, keep it up 🎸

As long as the open string doesn't sound like a sitar when strummed, it really doesn't need a string tree.

I've always taken off the first string tree on my strats and only left the last one for the B and High e strings

EVH used to wind the strings up on the tuner post instead of down to improve tuning stability, as he wanted to reduce the break angle behind the nut. On my Strat, the low E and G string tended to return sharp after deep dives. Winding just those 2 string up the tuning posts has reduced the problem substantially.

I have MIJ ancient Fernandes Native Pro. It did use a small bar to put all the strings instead of using string trees. Without it the tuning on the whammy does not go out of tune any more than my SG on a tune and it of course does not have a whammy.

Tuning issues aside... that color looks SICK.

Birds head knob my favorite for everything. Very easy to know where you are at with just a glance.

Trem tuning issues are the result of friction. Trems vary the string tension, causing the strings to move longitudinally over all friction points - tuner post windings, fixed trees, nut, and saddles. I eliminate all friction with locking tuners, roller trees, roller nut, and roller saddles. Eliminate the friction altogether.

Dude thanks so much it was driving me nutz. Also i noticed the ppor quality of the tuners themselves. The heads on mine actually vibrate. Thinking of dropping a tiny bit of super glue on them to make them stop

What about a "spacer" to raise the string trees up a little to reduced that break angle? If there is no issue with having enough pressure at the nut..... then I'd say you're good to go!

I use a single roller tree with stacked fender locking tuners. Expensive but worth it. It's the reverse headstock design that does it.

I usually unsubscribe from channels that use clickbait titles but you made me laugh with this one.

Ryan can wiggle his stick without repercussions now! P.S. KZfaq's Premiere Notifications stunk today.

I really like the way that guitar sounds!

My MIM Super-Sonic came with only 1 string tree for the 2 lowest strings. It's about an inch farther from the nut than the Squier trees. I never noticed that until today... I wonder what the new MIJ Fender Super-Sonics come with.

Anybody know what size trem bar this takes? mine came with a bar that was too big

I have a set of roller string trees on my ‘96 American Standard Strat that seem to work well, can’t remember what brand they are though. It also has a Fender LSR roller nut on it which I’m sure increases stability also but the roller string trees might allow you to still run a tree especially it you spaced the height up so the angles aren’t so severe coming off the nut. My OCD would get to me leaving them completely off the trees lol.

I can say that the new bridge definitely helps with the stability as well as this. While this is 100% the first thing you should do with a supersonic (worked great on mine), as someone with the stock bridge with no altering it still goes out of tune pretty quickly when doing more than fluttering with the trem. That being said, it was unplayable before because of how unstable it was, and now I'm comfortable using it as a gigging guitar. Tysm you saved me from returning this amazing sounding model!

I would suspect that the nut material is a bit soft and increasing friction through the slots. You proved that by reducing the downward force which is one of the two components of friction force, the other being the coefficient of friction. A nice Graphtech nut should work, even with the string trees if desired. In other words, replace the nut with better one. It's pretty easy. Get the one with the precut slots. Then, all you have to do is carefully sand down the bottom of the nut until you get the correct height. Don't glue it in either. It will make it easier to adjust more later if desired.

I put a set of roller string trees on my super sonic and fixed the tuning issues immediately.. although I have my bridge decked with 5 springs...

Hello! I was wondering if you still had this guitar in your possession (its been 1y since this vid came out) and heard of the inverted tuning covered in an R.J. Ronquillo video, this seems like the absolute perfect prebuild for such a tuning! Love your reviews keep it up!

Roller string tree's, and locking, bridge saddles should make that guitar stay in tune like a floyd rose..

Wow I may actually get a super sonic now. I was worried about the tuning issues.

I own a mexico Supersonic from 2012 and never understood your tuning problems, mine's perfectly good. I just checked the headstock and it only has 1 string tree - for the E and A string - and the string break angle is not as sharp as yours. I tried to release the strings from the string tree, but the E string keeps popping out. (but as I don't have tuning problems I put it back in)

My 2012 pawn shop supersonic only has one string tree on the 6th and 5th string, and it appears to be slightly more towards the up on the headstock. I've never had tuning stability issues with it. Wonder why they changed this?

+1 vote for a set of staggered tuners! I bet you have a set lying around, Ryan...

Could you do a review about the valeton dapper Indie? I’m really curious to hear your opinion about. Thanks🙂

Will definitely try that! But the real issue I'm having is that I'm not able to tune the low e-string. My polytune won't recognize it. In the 12th fret I can tune it. I'm using 10-46. What kind of strings do you use?

If i had thought to try this with my old squier strat 8ish years ago, i don't think i'd have sold if for my Epi Les Paul Junior (which has its own tuning issues)

mate that works!!😂😂😂im fuckin delighted i only bought this for the looks now it stays in tune , bonus!!

Thank you for this. Been struggling with tuning issues on this thing and this has made the most difference of anything I've tried. Which is almost everything else. Has anyone tried restringing it with lighter strings again after this? Went up to 11s, but would really prefer anything lighter, for extreme bends

yeah, I wonder why those string trees are so close to the nut? they should be where regular string trees are for the higher strings, between 2nd and 3rd post, nearer to the 3rd post.

That killswitch is sick!

Check it … lube up the string holes .. get a brass block and better more adjustable sting trees.. also having an upside down headstock doesn’t help.. I have that issue because I’m left handed and I’ll take rightys and flip them properly and set them up .. my strat used to do that.

Going to have to customize my super sonic axe when I by one

If you do end up finding that you need some break angle or the strings buzz or pop out with heavy handed playing you could sand and polish up the graph tech trees because they’re the same material as the nut and you could add those metal spacers off a set of tree from a squier usually the two spacers are different heights and for a longer screw you might be able to cut down a p90 screw I’m not sure how well that would work but it would be a neat fix if you end up having problems but I have all my strat trem totally locked to the body so I’m not very familiar with fighting tuning stability with trem use

lol, this is the Squier Jazzmaster,,, but i still love it as i dont really play "normal" stuff in it,, once you use the Termolo then boom, out of the original tune

You are not crazy. I removed the string retainer bar on my Hamer Slammer Daytona (a Strat copy) due to the same tuning instability issue.

One trick I've had success with is a quick upward tug on the trem bar after dive bombs.

The string tree on the E and A may need to be drilled farther back. The second tree might not be necessary. A set of Schaller locking tuners would be pre staggered. Then you don't need any string trees.

I was going to mention the huge break on those string trees last video, but am rather new to the guitar so I thought for sure that you either tried that already, or I would be laughed out of the room for such a silly suggestion, and to stick to being a drummer…

Could it be because it's a reverse headstock? So the extra friction from the string trees is there on the fatter strings. Because the trees are supposed to keep the break angle close enough across them all

A very good tip that works .

I wondered - what about the bottom two strings? They are not placed in the string trees but are under a great break angle since the tuners are closer to nut. I also have Supersonic, but I want to elevate it into its best form, already I thought of replacing the tuners with gotoh ones. Opinions? I dont usually mind having to tune this one because I don't use tremolo heavily, partly because my main issue with it - the guitar body itself is so tiny the trem arm reaches quite far and that makes it uncomfortable for me to strum and use it at the same time. But I am not a great player so that has to do a lot with that.

Do they make little spacers/washers to go under the string trees? Can you just raise em up alittle..i wonder if that could work also..hmmmmm maybe who knows...

That guitar is sweet I love the kill switch 🤖📡

Well done, that guitar design seems to be very flawed in that respect. Can't say I would ever buy that model though!

Shouldn't the hendrix stratocaster have the same problem? It also has a reverse headstock.

Funny thing is I'm a lefty and have mine set-up 'upside-down' so it's like a normal Strat headstock and don't experience the same tuning issues. What I will say though is the trem-block is atrocious in quality, I've never had a guitar where it's borderline impossible to replace strings in under an hour. I could do with switching the nut over/buying a new 40mm nut and fitting lefty. I'll do that when I change pickups though.

Funny enough I was having tunning issues with my squier bullet mustang. I tried this trick with the D G & B strings, and now they dont go outta tune as drastically as they did before with big bends. I kept the high E-string in the tree since i didn't have any issues with that. Thanks for the tip Ryan! Maybe the larger headstocks could be a factor to stability issues too?

That's fantastic, been interested in this guitar for a while but there's no way I'm forking out the money for the guitar if it's going to need a new bridge, locking tuners, and still not stay in tune. Love the mods you've done to it might ask my tech to do some similar. Did you not put locking tuners on it, just change bridge/nut/trees?

What was that song you where using? Cool bass line!!

I would go into the other end of it where the aluminum block is that holds the string barrel and get in there with a Dremel or something and polish that cuz it sounds like it might be holding up the barrel when you bend it the barrel changes and it runs It out of tune and then I would change the brake angle of the strings by filing the nut or raising it ever so slightly JMHO

That guitar rules, you wail 🦄

so why do they put string trees exactly if you can do without ?

Shit, it worked. You're the man!

Never seen string trees that close together in parallel...seems like the E/A string tree should be up the headstock atleast an inch further than the D/G. Less break for those two (E/A).

what pickups do you have in that guitar?

That worked 👍

So I'm curious if the Fender SuperSonics (not squire) have similar issues, since their headstock/tuner setup is basically the same.

Hit some natural harmonics and dive the bar, that always sounds awesome!!

Killer Info.

A good set of roller saddles will drastically improve tuning stability

Maybe It's an upside down neck thing then? Tension too much on the bass side strings in the trees than the treble side. 🤷🏼

I build myself Super Sonic and don't have any issues. Maybe that's why. I preferer shallow angles. So, I put only one string tree with taller washer for E and A and only because I don't have staggered tuners. I also have offset trem system which admittedly doesn't allow such wild bending and Graphtech nut but still.

You are correct, that is way to much break Angle, and a string tree on a wound string makes it that much worse. Another idea that fender suggests on vintage bridges is to loosen the middle bridge mounting screws a half turn, and just leave the outside screws tightened down. To the idea that an american version would be any better, I don't believe that. They would be constructed with basically the same materials, with the same design, common sense, no difference.

I replace stringtrees always by ones with those little rollers, they never bind …..