Can you review the CrossCountry class 170?

Certainly agree!

When Arriva took over the franchise in 2007, Virgin's bid for the XC franchise was going to spec lengthening every set to 6 carriages, that includes the two stored driving cars at the time as well, I believe. But Arriva just said they'd get a couple of HSTs which was cheaper, so they got it... In 2007, we were only a few years beyond the end of 222 construction so it would have been doable (bit like the pendolino extensions in 2012ish), but now they'll likely stay stuck as 4/5 car until the end of their serice lvies.

@@karlosbricks2413 thankfully, Arriva's contact with XC ends in October, so maybe then XC will finally get some better trains in place of the Voyagers which they desperately need.

I don't mind the carriage formations. As long as the voyagers get coupled up. All they gotta do is couple some up

Biggest problem with the Voyagers is that they feel so claustrophobic - the tapered bodyshell allowing for tilt _and_ the raised floor to allow for the tilting mechanism underneath all reduce space, combined with them being all airline seats, poor window alignment, and just not long enough so they are almost always really crowded. Unfortunately almost all of my Voyages are for work, and there's no way they'll pay for First Class!

Hahahahahahaha southerners have never had them thats why LOL

Mista Meana Great Western Railway has quite a few that run in Somerset, Devon and Cornwall so there are pacers in the south!

The Pacers have recently been disappearing from the northern rail network, being largely replaced by class 195. But I do have a soft spot for the Pacers. ..the nearest stretch of sinking sands of Morecambe Bay!

Mista Meana we don’t have to have them to know they’re bollocks

TG Trains THATS SOUTHWEST NOT SOUTH OR SOUTHEAST !!! 🤷‍♂️

That's certainly quite the feat, maybe one to do once the railways are accessible again!

Thanks for the feedback! :D

Yeah, I am sure you're not alone in thinking that.

Luckily, this journey was without that 'pleasant feature'. Most of mine have been without for the past few years in fact.

There better then that crap pacers sometimes have better seats if its the bus seats ones plus a bit of character there not so boring lol id have a pacer any day

@@benjaminoliver7567 they did more then what they where designed to do great units ill miss them

@@benjaminoliver7567 no mate. They were falling apart. Don't support rail buses

@@cam43002 I've kept pics of pacers being scrapped because it's foam.

@@NSE465 nahhhhh could last a few more years just look after them a bjt better

Thanks so much! 😃

Thanks for the comment. :)

Thanks for the comment. Hopefully I can do a Standard Class video of the same train soon in the future...

Thanks, glad you liked it! :D

Review on the XC HST experience coming soon! :)

I’m sure that if they ran as doubles, people would hate them much less than now. Hopefully they get the 222s and use them for lengthening(!)

You may know it was proposed, but never happened...

​@@SuperalbsTravels The problem is the SE tends to use 3rd rail whilst the ECML/WCML trunk routes use overhead wires. The older Eurostar units have 3 types of energy capability which increases maintenance costs and causes reliability issues. The 15 to 19-year-old Class 220-222's are still going with only EMT having given the Meridians a refurbishment. What makes the Class 800's affordable is that the technology is reliable enough for a true bi-modal train and there is significant enough electrification and demand for multi-operator purchases (LNER/VTEC, GWR, TPE, Hull Trains, EMR and Avanti) to keep the purchase cost affordable.

I agree, much more pleasant. More videos on more trains soon. :)

I'm glad you enjoyed, my friend. 😃

Would certainly be quite the endurance test!

Woking to Wolverhampton was more than long enough to endure in one of these. The accelerate quickly and ride well but the seating arrangement is horrible and many have to stand or sit near the doors. Luggage rack space is pathetic. Only the unfailingly wonderful train staff make it possible to endure these trains. I say this as somebody who basically loves to go by rail... I saw one depart Reading for Manchester Piccadilly rammed to the vestibules... another example of privatisation failure. The train should have been twice as long at least. There was 'nothing that could be done'. I pitied the parents travelling with young children paying ridiculous prices for a dreadful train that departed late... and the train crew who could do nothing... not even walk through the carriages with refreshments. Scrap Them!

@@stephensmith799 I remember when the Voyagers were introduced and always thought what a horrible replacement they were over a Class 47,86 and HST stock. I'm not trying to be nostalgic but I've always believed if you are going to replace a train,it has to be better than its predecessor. When the 333s replaced the 308s in my neck of the woods in Yorkshire,there was absolutely no comparison........the 333s are a fantastic train. This is just my opinion,but I would replace them with the 802s. I caught one a few weeks ago from Newcastle to Leeds and could not help thinking if the ride quality was improved on them,and the seats were better,they would be a worthy train to sit on for a journey over 3 hours. As for what I would do with the Voyagers,I would put them to work in Scotland on the 7 cities network.

@@stepheng7586 Agreed! I have a special liking for 158s but miss BR Mark 2D stock which was marvelous in all respects including un-fussy interiors, perfect views, great seats and an open feel. They also looked great from the outside.

@@stepheng7586 Its a good question as to what to do with Voyagers. From the solebar down to the rail, they are fine. Even the inward sloping body sides I could cope with. What's needed is to gut the interiors completely, replace existing seating with BR mark 2D seating placed to match the windows, adding at least one coach (car) per unit, ideally two. I would be content if there was slightly reduced acceleration and if this meant slightly longer journey times; however I suspect Voyagers have power in hand to run at higher speeds anyway. e need to get train interior design out of the hands of 'aircraft' based design thinking and away from the assumption that passengers don't need to see the world passing by their window. We do!

Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed it! Be sure to share with like-minded inviduals.

Part of the problem lies with the regulations requiring the provision of wheelchair-accessible toilets which take up a lot of space in a carriage. With the benefit of hindsight the Voyagers should have been designed as "Tri-Modes" with a centre (fifth) carriage equipped with pickup shoes to collect ultra-low voltage DC from a conductor rail and a pantograph to collect high voltage AC from overhead line equipment. End gangways in the driving cabs, so than passengers could walk through when two Voyager units were coupled together as a ten-carriage train, would also have been very useful. As you correctly point out, Matt, they are very cramped (especially in Standard Class) and the large underfloor Diesel engines raise issues of noise and vibration when accelerating away from station stops or climbing a bank. My particular grouse is that even in First Class the seats don't line up with the windows!

Wish I was about to travel what preceded them...

There was loads of room every single time I went on a voyager

I have mostly been lucky too.

when they were introduced? nonsense. Prior to these, XC was a once a day service with unreliable 47s hauling life expired Mk.2s. Operation princess operated within the cash strapped early privatisation days and gave us the current clock-face timetable that all of a sudden, a commuter could use, it wasn't just to see your family who happened to live in Carrbridge, and that caused the explosion in passenger numbers. If you ask me, the Dft giving Arriva the franchise was the mistake. In '07 Virgin was going to lengthen every set to 6 car (possibly would have implemented the eVoyager programme too), but no, Arriva was cheaper and these trains are literally as they were left by Virgin after they were given the boot, not a change barring replacing seat cushions as they wear. Expense of XC is merely a result of them being overcrowded today - No, not great but hardly the 22x 's fault.

Sadly it was an invalid connection, and nothing was due...

Wow, never got to use an original 455. Seen a few pictures though. :O

Ouch, that seems like an uncomfortable experience. I'll have to try out the Standard Class on them soon, to see what that's like.

Thanks, I am glad you enjoyed it.

Considering that Class 220 Voyagers were designed with the leisure travel market very much in mind - such as taking holidaymakers from Manchester down to Bournemouth in a modern version of the "Pines Express" - it's remarkable that there is so little space for luggage. If people are heading south for a week in the sun won't they need to take suitcases with them?

More frequent trains had the side effect of making people want to travel more, because of the better service...

Thanks, glad you enjoyed! :)

@@SuperalbsTravels you're most welcome.

We all hated em, but we do miss em too. One reason is that they weren't accessible, but when have trains every been accessible

I think that the Pacers looked awful. I wouldn't really go as far as to say that I hated them. But they just looked like the old style Leyland bus on a railway track. What some train operators did that really angered me was that they would stick benches in rather than individual seats to seat 3 people on one side, then with barely enough room to squeeze down the aisle you would have a 2 seater bench on the other side. This, I thought was degrading to ordinary rail passengers & basically said in no uncertain terms Pack em in like cattle!!! I read stories of people whinging about the Virgin Voyager, these types don't know that they are living. Bunch of wussies with their pampered life styles. Call MI6 because they have diesel fumes in a compartment.

@@neilburns8869 Pacers looked like burnt toast cause northern was so unbothered with them that they never cleaned them. My mates stabbed a compass into a bus seat and we were all coughing cause of the amount of dust that came out. Now picture that, but with a pacer Oh yea, I didn't realise some Pacers had toilets

I feel like this would be a good meme... :D

@@SuperalbsTravels you think arriva is going to invest in mass electrification of the cross country network to allow pendalinos?

I reckon that's unlikely! 😬

We'll see what the future holds!

I hope the company keeps the HST. It's a beautiful train. Quiet, lovely staff, on time...the model for all these "old Trains" is the rolling stock now run by Chiltern from Stourbridge to London. Diesel at front and rear. Amazing train. Formerly Wrexham and Shropshire stock. And that company was destroyed by Virgin trains. Very sad.

@@peterthorpe903 they’re ditching HST’s and retaining these pieces of crap. Both cross country and EMR with the 222’s

Certainly there was always some kind of issue with the lavatory facilities. Not really sure what the actual source was but it was very unpleasant and made the corridors between the seating coaches stink.

Any tips? Doing a journey like that in a couple months

@@trainsMA if you're doing an all dayer and your in standard class you'll need to get food before you get on. That's all really, the views were superb, we had a lot of different people to talk to as the train emptied and refilled in different areas of the country. The only down side was going through Devon and Cornwall it stops at everywhere and the last couple of hours dragged

Sounds like you had a nice journey! I rarely take long journeys on the CrossCountry route, typically opting to go via London.

​@@SuperalbsTravelslong distance CrossCountry routes are better with the InterCity125 sets

Yep, it was a nice experience. Glad you enjoyed the video, more to come.

Wow that's quite a trek!

Nice, glad you enjoyed your journeys lol. :)

Ah, how lovely!

My longest journey is actually just 2.5hr on one. Maybe I should do the Aberdeen to Peznance route, totalling 13hr.

Very relatable - I've done Bristol Temple Meads to Manchester many a time, and as you say when you are stuck staring at the pillar it's deeply unpleasant...

Wow, that's 5/6 hours isn't it?

@@SuperalbsTravels around 6.5 hours.

Ah...

I found it pleasant, sometimes (like today) you can find some real bargains too!

Haha interesting take on it all. :)

AGREED MATE LOL

Or even a 5 car HST

A Scotrail Inter7Cities refurbished 5-car HST?

Love the XC HST fleet, got a video on them coming out in a couple of weeks.

Anthony Crompton yeah they are better trains by a country mile.

Geoff Rennox Or even a Cross-Country mile.😀

Lol!

Thank you! 😁

Lades and gentlemen, Bodmin Parkway shortly, the next calling point.

I'll come back for second class one day. :)

I see!

Yeah, that is irritating!

Not for XC, that won't happen. :)

Yep, I hate missing connections, but it's even worse when you see it departing - what a cruel tease...

So delay every passenger on that train for the 1 or two late in this train? How’s that fair trains should always leave bang on time if they can.

If the timetable was well thought through, it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place. :)

Glad you enjoyed.

With luck, that opportunity will be taken not only to lengthen but also to gut their insides for a thorough refurb with new seating and tables, add a pantograph/ transformer set. Ideally also scrap the noisy Cummins diesels and replace with MTUs or other quieter engines.

At least the Avanti West Coast class 221 Voyagers have one car with all the seats in groups of four around tables which line up with the windows.

I'm glad you enjoyed, more to come!

Thank you, glad you enjoyed!

Thanks for the comment, interesting thoughts. I never got to try the really old heritage DMUs on the mainline sadly, excepting a few short rides on a 121.

Thanks! They are very photogenic in my opinion.

Haha, I didn't check the standard class carriages to be fair.

@@SuperalbsTravels Standard class: Standing only from York to Chesterfield - Never again...

Yeah I bet that would be a drag...

@@SuperalbsTravelsStandard class is vile and overcrowded. Many seats have no window and are very cramped.

Stan ley I had to stand from Plymouth to Bristol Temple meads so I literally always pray please be a hst when I go to and from Devon

Thanks! In the UK, except the newest trains, only one headlight is used at a time (changes depending on the time of day), along with two marker lights and on most trains a 'cyclops' light.

Nope, wasn't offered a sandwich this time.

It was, I loved the scenery.

Thanks! Sadly I've not yet recorded such a video, I had plans, which sadly were necessary to cancel. Next video is out tomorrow! :)

@@SuperalbsTravels Looking forward to that then 😊 Many trips have been cancelled sadly due to the virus, but never mind!

I look forward to making it.

Well. My story of the Voyagers is quite something - I've gone from not coping on one for more than half an hour in the early years til like 2004 to now wanting XC to get the Avanti West Coast ones. Also, once I've eventually done Edinburgh (my first trip to Scotland this will be), I'm hoping to travel with CrossCountry entirely to and from Oxford and Dundee. In the politest possible way, yes LNER would mean a 9-car Azuma to or from the North East and Aberdeen but there's a few things to bear in mind... 1. These trains can be full at any time of the day. 2. You've a few things to hope for such as the seat reservations to work, the train being the right way round and for the catering services to be available. With CrossCountry, I can be booked onto a 4 or 5-car Voyager on the Aberdeen-bound XC service - the only missing coach is the unreserved one, Coach B. Also, I've not got to worry which side of the train (and direction) my seat faces. Plus the trolley service I've found to be very reliable - once or twice that's all that it's not come through in the last few weeks. As nice as 222's are, I'd much rather the 221's come to XC given that 222's can't couple up to Voyagers if I've understood it 100% correctly. Plus all the 221's come in 5-car formations - the 222's (single sets) are currently in 4, 5 and 7-car sets so too much reforming required. Also I'm struggling to remember when the air-conditioning or heating system on the Voyagers has caused me to last complain to XC on Twitter or email. I've always enjoyed them late at night too albeit these very rare experiences - probably because there's more seats available throughout the train. Of course I always enjoy the HST's but we have to be realistic in that more converted HST's to sliding doors will take a while - with the 221's there's not a major amount of work required I imagine. So keep up the great work on the Voyagers 🙂👍!

@@mitchellhurd8958 the voyager's like the super voyager's and pendolinos are very much under appreciated

@@paulwheeler4283 Totally agree, love the Pendalino - if it had 225 style seats would be better still. But the voyagers are a nice train to be on, so long as in 9/10 coach formations for busy period offers similar standard class capacity to the HST. I've never seen bodies of water swash from side to side in a Voyager unlike the Pacers. You could have a 4 coach layout during quieter periods allowing more frequent services during the day, with more route variety, and a longer 9/10 coach layout during moe busy periods, far more flexibility and acceleration than the HST's & MK3's & Class 67 & Mk 2's it replaced on the cross-country network. Also very safe and reliable, alike the Pendolino. A XC Voyager once collided with a car at a level crossing and the 'ugly' shape protected the rest of the train by absorbing the impact, the train was repaired and put back into service, still all class 220-22 units operational. As for the Grayrigg Pendalino crash, that would have been far worse had it been the Sleeper train a few hours later with MK2 and MK3 coaches.

@@eleanorheptinstall5354 i completely agree with everything you've said 🙂

Basically two hours of that... 😩

Is there any point on the National Rail network between Penzance and Bristol where a Class 220 Voyager train can actually run at its top speed of 125mph?

Think the names were quite cute personally. :P

Yeah so you can see Voyagers at top speed on the Doncaster-Edinburgh sections of the route for sure.

They may look up to the minute but they are far less versatile than the 125 and MK3 coach that is a full 26 years older.

Yeah, I love the Mk3, really nice vehicles, and still feel modern to this day.

XC HST review coming soon, subscribe so you don't miss it.

@@SuperalbsTravels i cant wait. i just subbed

Eek, sorry to hear about that! :( Have you considered the trains via London instead? Or maybe changing at Birmingham? Maybe they would be more enjoyable.

@@SuperalbsTravels The CrossCountry service was convenient for us, because it involved no changes. Now, we'll fly!

Fair enough!

Yes this video is dated 6th October.

Hahahaha! Very good. :)

Yeah, so much of their route is packed!

Nice. :D

When you go one one you will lose that love 😂 unless you get a HST but thats unlikely

@@cam43002 I hate cc unfortunately I have to use them.

@@UKRandomCreeperUK well yea thats the case for a lot of people unfortunately

I must be lucky, I usually get a seat on these...

I agree better to go Dorset tbh.

Thanks for the information.

Lol, glad you enjoyed. :)

These trains are clearly very divisive!

Lol.

Thats what I put just. Ita so true

I'll take a pacer over this any day. They have an excuse for their imperfections.

@@robertbarker5981 lmao

@@robertbarker5981 and you only travel short distances on a pacer. Voyagers are unfit for purpose, Branson's fault!

Think I still prefer the 222s though, they seem alright to me! :)

@@SuperalbsTravels EMR's 222s are starting to get a bit tatty now (especially in Standard Class), though that might be because of how bad EMR have become. You still can't get a decent phone signal on 222s, which is the same as 221s and 220s. It's a shame that many train companies are retiring their Class 43s, which is what I feel makes for a very good train journey.

why go with something unproven? Cummins was the industry standard. They certainly seem to have been very reliable.

@@AndreiTupolev No problem with Cummins reliability, it's the noise. The MTU 12V183 is no less proven but is quiet and refined compared to an 18 litre straight 6, something that might have been considered when moving from loco-hauled to distributed power.

The tilt bodyshell is no doubt to blame for the narrow feeling.

@@SuperalbsTravels Yes it is but it's narrower than it would be on other standard-gauge systems due in large part to the British loading gauge. (Some blame may also be attributed to the the simplistic Bombardier tilt geometry.) Max width comparison at shoulder height. Germany 3150mm (10'4") Sweden 3400mm (11'2") UK 2720mm (8'11")

Thanks, I took remember using them in my childhood. Think I went to Plymouth.

I’ve done this journey a couple of times usually in the inbound direction

Ah, nice! :)

True enough about acceleration. Noise vs sound is quite a subjective thing, but by any measure Vomiter engines are much more noticeable than in 'outer suburban' or 'regional' units like 158/159s, 166s, 170s, 175s and 185s. Interiors are plasticky although I agree with you reasonable in terms of build quality. But on some units engine vibration resonates through seat backs and luggage racks reminiscent of crappy old Cravens DMUs of the 1960s! Smelly toilets is a Vomiter speciality. The tilt equipment (fitted to all 221s; passive provision for it on the 220s) meant that the toilet waste tanks had to go above the solebar. From many years as a daily commuter on these units, I can tell you that unless ambient temperature is very low there is always a pig farm whiff.

The toilet smell has gone away in recent years. Had you asked me my thoughts on these a few years ago, it would have been completely different!

It was about five minutes late I think!

@@SuperalbsTravels ok

Ten minutes reservations are a disaster. Luckily I have never been a victim, but I have read so many stories...

Lol, was driving me mad!

@@SuperalbsTravels not surprised 😄

No thanks, I prefer the Voyager anyday! :)