When I wanted to learn to foil in 2017, almost no one was prone foiling yet but there were a couple of brands making SUP foil boards. So I tried to learn to SUP and learn to foil at the same time. Impossible. I tried to SUP foil for a few sessions and then gave up. Fast forward 2 years an all of a sudden prone foiling explodes. Multiple boards and foils to choose from, and I buy myself a setup. I have a surfing background, so managing a line-up, paddling for waves, popping-up was easy. It was learning to ride the foil, and then learning to pump, that was hard. Now I'm able to carve and connect multiple waves, and completely addicted. I have friends who have a SUP background, and they rip on the SUP foil. I think it's the feeling of foiling that we're all after. Whether SUP or prone, just pick whichever you're more comfortable with without the foil. If you're a competent SUP'er, go SUP foil. If you know how to surf, go prone foil. And regarding pumping: I've seen people easily pump back out on SUP's. It's all possible and it's all frickin amazing.

Everyone I know that pumps a SUP foil well has boards under 5'8" that are under 13 lbs. I just made a 5'5" by 27 (~105 L) that's ~13 lbs and it made all the difference in the world pumping wise compared to my 5'9" 16.5 lbs board. Some guys I know are on sub 10 lbs SUPs - I can't image how easy those things are to pump. It appears to me that the placement of rider weight in a special spot over the foil when pumping on a SUP is much more important than on a super light prone board (I see guys on prone broads with all kinds of funky stances making it work well after like 3-4 months of practice). In my case, if I remember to pull my front foot back about 3-4 inches as I exit the wave with speed, I can get the board to pump well and can get multiples (even with my heavy board). When I pull the front foot back on exiting, it makes it possible for me to generate more forward driving force and takes nearly all the strain off the back leg (this eliminates that "jumping" feeling off the back foot when pumping and creates balanced exertion in both legs) - this video turned me on to the idea kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gr51abCZ3N-nY5c.html. The counter point is guys that are strapped in that pump just fine - I get it, but moving my foot back made all the difference, and I don't use my paddle to help pump at all. Also, I find that my front wing has a ton to do with how easy it is to pump a large board. If its a small day and I can't exit the wave really fast, I go with a huge 1500 cm^2 HA front wing (gl 210) that let's me get away with murder. On fast days I can make it happen on an 1270 cm^2 mid aspect wing (nl 160), but that's because I can exit with a lot of speed and my pumps seem to mean more as long as I maintain the speed (but if I exit slow or slow down, I'm not good enough to save it yet with that wing and drop). It amazes me that prone guys my weight (180 lbs) can pump 1000 cm^2 (even 850 cm^2) wings with ease on really small, slow waves - clearly the small board and good technique have their advantages. I think us SUP foilers are starting to make it happen more regularly, it's just a bit more difficult with our aircraft carrier boards. For inspiration, here's a dude that's 6'5" on a 6'6" x 26" board making it happen - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jtGBe9mH0riWmqs.html. Thanks for the fun content, and good luck out there.

Prone surf foiling is so hard but the appeal is like you said in the video. Also have to have the right type of beach/break.

Love your video footage and commentary. If you transition from SUP surfing, a SUP foil transition makes sense. I like being out of the water and a bit warmer as well. Plus, paddling typically helps us catch the waver earlier. As others have mentioned, it's most likely easier on the older body, it is for me. If I was a bit younger, I would probably do both. Just stoked to be out there flying around with some great new friends.

Prone board arrived a week ago. I have a year of wing/sup/efoil experience so first time towing behind a boat I was up and flying in no time. But its a different matter in the surf. Its a workout paddling the small board, and you have to nail foot position when popping up - very little room for error. I went too small (30L - I'm 145lb) plus Ocean Beach in SF is not a good place to learn, even in crumbly small summer waves. So my advice would be start with a more floaty board and look for a rolling wave like you see in the video ... but half or less of what those guys are riding.

Prone is certainly the ultimate for wave riding. As you note, a small board and no wing or paddle in your hands. It is also darn hard to dial in the takeoffs, but so worth it. Winging is also awesome in that you can be on foil for just about the entire session.

I love old school surfing and SUPing and windfoiling. There's no way I see myself affording a prone foil board, or a foil SUP. If only I could do everything 😁

This is a great/honest video. Go Teddy.

John Heineken is really impressive with his supfoil abilities. He's using a 113-115l mike's lab board.

Merci. Long à faire, mais c'est ce qui donne le meilleur résultat

Amazing skill......

I’m dabbling and mediocre in both. Most of our breaks get shallow quick so with prone, since I take a bit to get standing I’m often aground before I can get on foil. With sup I haven’t found the right size board. Too small and I’m often falling off right when I’m setting up to catch one, too big and it’s hard to control. I’m afraid there isn’t an overlap where I can stay on and also pump it. Which is why I’m trying prone.

Hi mate, wonderful video and it made me just decide I'll go for that, searching for my first gear. I've been foiling with a kite and foiling for me is just the best thing on earth. Wha foil area you recomend? 1200 or more? My area is south Portugal, no big waves but very good swells out in the ocean.

It looks hard. Not only the physicality, but the timing of the waves and the carving skill. He may be only one year in but some people are born with and have developed better cardio and balance skills. He could probably be a good dancer too which cuts out 90% of middle aged white men. Think I’ll stick with the wing and try out the paddle.

Some of the trade-offs you mention are intimately tied to the particulars of _this_ spot.

I’m just about to pull the trigger on a prone board. Proning means bay surf when its out of control here in Melbourne

Hey clayisland, thank you for putting this video together, great commentary and footage! I'm thinking about diving into the foiling scene after trying an efoil. I've had a lot of experience kitesurfing/surfing and I'm drawn to prone foiling. What would be your advice for someone whos about to start foiling putting the investment in the equipment aside. Should a beginner start with Wing, SUP, or prone foiling, with the to goal to prone foil?

What wings those guys on? Spot looks sick.

You don't address the physicality of prone foiling compared to Supfoiling. I don't feel that my body would handle prone foiling very well. I'm not very flexible and it hurts too much at my age. But I'm willing to give it a try too. Great footage. I'm sure the riders are stoked to see themselves.

Check out the new sky 4'8 tc 50l board. high volume small board

How do the prone guys paddle out with board upside down?

any idea what the make and model that blue prone board is?

Prone v sup, would you use the same fin?

I noticed in your most recent sup video, ur on a small short sup, and your pumping. How big is that new sup?

ps. Do you know what Armstrong front wing he was on?

In my experience, first hand (50 SUP foiling sessions), and looking at others, basically Surf foiling is there to stay, but I think SUP foiling will stay a niche practice for specific conditions (e.g downwinds), because: [1] pumping is harder with SUP foiling, and thus the big interest of connecting waves goes away. 500 meters rides sound like fun until you have to get back 500m to the peak paddling a sub-6' SUP board. Not everyone will be able to pump SUP foils efficiently, whereas pumping surf foils seem more doable for the average surfer, from what I see around me. Basically I do not see SUP foilers anymore, only surf foilers. [2] Foiling is great as it allows making fun of crappy surfing conditions. But standing up and paddling a sub-6' board can be hell quick, even with a foil under it, whereas prone paddling is not so different with or without chop. Plus, handling getting in and out the shorebreak with also a paddle is more cumbersome... [3] SUP boards with their bigger volume are subject to much higher forces in the whitewater than tiny prone boards, and thus it is easier to break gear with SUP foiling, especially in Hossegor beach breaks where waves can get hollow at any time with the changing banks, rips, tides. [4] SUP foiling is great, I don't regret having learned to do it, the feeling was worth the trouble of learning it. But for less money than a foil gear, you now can get super light SUP boards, e.g. something less than 5kg / 10lbs for 100 liters (my 105 l board weight 4.6kg w/o fins nor pad). And I could not force myself to get back on a foil once I have experienced super light SUP boards, especially with Quobba fins, you can have a blast on weak mushy waves as they fly on anything (and you do not need enough depth for a foil). Prone foil boards on the other hand are ridiculously tiny compared to even surf shortboards. Also, I am now too stiff with age to be able to prone surf (I cannot even sit on a board), so surf foiling was not an option for me. [5] foiling is great if you cannot get on the water when you want, and have to manage the crowds and winds that are there in your free time. I am able to get out when I want, so I can avoid crowds and wait for glassy conditions. So my SUP foil journey was quite fun, I do not regret it one second, but I am reselling now all my foil gear that has stayed untouched for more than 2 years. PS: On the other hand, Wing foiling is going to be everywhere.

Got a board prone board for you, Blue Beard Model ;-)

Where is this break?

I don't foil... yet. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut from an outsiders perspective I believe that the ultimate form of foiling is a board much like a skateboard, long wings with curved down tips, and a very long paddle. I imagine that you can pump in a serpentine fashion, or you can pump in a circle which I think would be the most effective way of building speed. My theory is that you would lean into the pump, with a leg position much like how people ride trick skis, square your shoulders and hips which would allow you to paddle to both your left and right without moving your legs too much and with each downward pump you have a strong stroke of the paddle. I believe that you can fully utilize the full human body, momentum, and stamina in that way, but it will be a while before I am able to work on that technique myself.

Where is this ?

Johnny Heineken? wonder what his favorite beer is…

Are you Clay Feeter?

SUP (Stand Up Paddle Board)

Prone

This isnt prone foiling its prone paddle/takeoff foiling. Or i would have stick to foiling, like standard surfing sticks to surfing. Prone foiling would be lying down on the board the whole time.

What a silly looking way to surf