As a civil engineer, I want to say: "Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!" For the first time someone does not run after the "dry pack" method. There is a reason why we have been properly mixing concrete for the last couple of 100 years. The problem with dry pack is that the outer skin of the dry cement hydrates (Chemical reaction between water and cementitious material) and prevents water from penetrating deeper into the concrete. Then the rest of the cementitious material is effectively starved of water and cannot properly Hydrate. At 6 days you were about 50% of concrete strength. At 28 days it would have been a totally different story. You would have had to pack lunch for the sledge work, as you would have been busy for a while. in short....If you are thinking of doing dry pack concrete, STOP, sit still and think about something else. Thank you for very informative videos.

As a welder in the deep South I can't tell how many miles of pipe fence we built we've always used dry set and add water a little before and after and we've had to pull these post up when trees fell on them to this day since I started 1986 we've never had a problem we use a sledgehammer to hit the 2 and 3/8 pipe to get the concrete off and it's still always holds pretty good not sure about the test I just know what's work for us

I have now built some fences, and I have found that the best method is to add 50% less water to the mix than what is normally needed. It sets fast and absorbs any extra water from the ground whats needed. It is easy to set it level, and high winds do not push the posts out of alignment

Great video! Well done on the follow up. The screws seem to work IMO. All the fences I’ve removed seem to have failed because the concrete is cracked then the post becomes loose. If the screws hold the concrete together even when it’s cracked that must help.

as an amateur concrete nerd the idea of dry pack gives me the heebie jeebies. Especially in a place like I live, which is a lot like where y'all are doing this test - except no irrigation run off.

Thanks for sharing your findings. I was wondering about this too. 👍🏻

Thanks for doing this update. That was also what stood out to me in your original test. I've seen people use the dry method and all of them add water afterwards. They also use a different type (as you did with the red bag) because not all types say you can add water afterwards. As the results show, adding that water made a huge difference. In your original test, the dry with no water was completely worthless. In this case, although the strength of the concrete is much weaker (you would never do something like this for structural work), for just holding a fence post, it's probably perfectly fine in most cases. I've never actually seen anyone just use it completely dry with no water added afterwards, even when they say they are doing a "dry pour", nor suggest that is the way to do a dry pour. I'm curious where that idea came from or if there is actually people that do that. The main idea behind the dry method is just that it saves equipment, mess, and the time spent mixing. It's not that you don't have water on site and thus add none after pouring. Personally however even for small DIY post setting without a wheelbarrow, I just mix it first in the 5 gallon bucket before dumping it in. It's worth it to me to have stronger concrete.

Good videos, both of them! I got some helpful tips. I live in the Sandhills in North Carolina. When I say Sandhills, my back yard is virtually a giant sand box! I have 300 linear feet of wooden privacy fence that is nearly 14 years old. I am gradually replacing it a little at a time by myself. The biggest problem I have is the posts rotting right at ground level. So when I am placing new posts I try to bring the concrete up to as high a level as I can, then later backfill with broken up concrete plugs from the broken posts. My idea here is that it will minimize the amount of wet sand contact right up against the post which is the reason for the rotting in the first place, I’m pretty sure. So far I have only used the Quickcrete red bag fast setting concrete. Pour it dry into the hole, no packing, then just pour the water in. This has bothered me though for many of the reasons you covered here. So later this year when I get back to doing more I am going to do a combo method I saw on someone else’s video where you mix the first bag before putting in the hole, then add a dry bag and then the water. I worry about the the idea of the water making it all the way down to the bottom of the hole. So far I haven’t really had any problems. I think the best measure will be how long the posts last before rotting at the base.

The best way to set a post using concrete bags- 1) quick set concrete 2)add water in the hole if you're using two bags add half the water you need for two bags 3) when you're done dumping in the first bag add more water 4) finish filling hole with second bag 5) use digging bar to mix the concrete in the hole 6)check plumb of post-on to next post. Its 6 years in California I haven't had a post fail yet

Nice work Connor!

We've always poured the dry concrete, add water, and then we use a metal rod to poke at it. It's always worked for us here in Michigan for 20 years so far. The only time we don't use this method is for gate posts. We will mix the concrete for gate posts because it is 100% stronger mixed and then poured, but due to lack of issues, we've never adopted that practice to our fences just our gate posts.

Ask and you shall receive. Mark is a man of the people. Also what you call the chicken dance, we call the Texas two step 😂

dang that operator is amazing at his job

Good demo!

Professional concrete chef! You know they used to say "never trust a skinny chef" so that's an excuse to not get too lean!

The telephone line contractors use a spade and spoon for digging deep hole for poles, the spoon wound save you a bunch of work cleaning out the holes over the shovel. I know because iv used both.

Dry is efficient although if you put the fence up before it cures wich depending on soil could loosen w heavy wind.🎉Thank You

Thank you. That was awesome. Appreciate it!

Growing up, i never knew you were supposed to add water, since you dug the post holes down below the water table in my area, which was around 2 feet.

Wet mixed concrete seems to be the best way to go. If I come across the foam fill for a good price it might be a good compromise considering it's a lot easier. The foam stuff is fairly new though and will have to see how it stands up to the test of time. Maybe it will degrade after 10 years or so or should it crack allowing water in may then fail from internal rot.

OP actually delivered!

Have you tried throwing a little water in the hole while cleaning it out with the auger? I have found this to work very well, especially in sandy country.

I'm

what if you leave the dry mix with the water set for 6 months? I agree wet set is the best but I used dry set in a couple of dead men.(a post that I made 1/4" abs sleeve) that I can slide a 4x4 post into. I use them for removeable fence / gate.... I also have different lengths 4x4's for work posts.... 1 I have a vise attached at standing height, another I use as a engine hoist lever and so on.... I just have to use a lever to slide (Pull) the 4x4 out and cap it if I don't need to use it.... so I did them in the late fall in the northeast and never used them until spring. I haven't had any issues of them moving or wobble and I did use screws through the abs in both directions... outside to hold it from turning and lifting and the inside screws the 4x4 rests on to stay dry from ground contact. I did one without the abs sleeve and put grease on the 4x4 and wrapped it with thin plastic...... I haven't used it yet and wonder if it will even lever out? I may need to use a jack the 1st time? btw.... I use 2x4's and sandwich glue 1/2" plywood to make the engine hoist..... it is at least 3x as strong as a 4x4!

I have done a lot of post semi dry pack. I add water to the hole, concrete then more water then more concrete then more water. I do this process till I have the hole full. I have had good luck with it. I will admit it is not as strong as mixed but it , just adding to the top I don't that will work well

I dry pack my posts and I wet the walls of the hole really well and leave a couple of inches on the bottom and then pour water on tap after I pack it. I can look at fences I’ve built 20 years ago and still straight and true.

Wood posts without drainage at the bottom will ALWAYS rot out rapidly. Even up here, in semi-arid conditions, our posts will not last longer than about ten years if emplaced into dirt. On the other hand we have some which were properly bottomed with crushed gravel or small rocks for drainage, that are still good after 23+years. For modern installations we wrap them with plastic then concrete around them. If they don't wick, they will last for a hundred years, just like in the old mining days.

Also some of this is climate in your area... here in Indiana in the spring there is plenty of water... and where I lived in Wisconsin the water table was like 2 foot down so no additional water needed

Good info 💪 One thing would be cool if you try it would be to do your hole but the post in and fill the hole up with water then start adding dry concrete once the bag is in or a half a bag is in use the donkey blank vibrator Then put the rest of the dry concrete in vibrate the top section and let it sit I wonder if that would give you stronger concrete than dry pack but be good enough or if it would turn out just as good as wet set? 👍

Would digging the bottom of the hole wider than the top help prevent the posts from heaving in a frost situation?

My opinion after setting fence posts for decades. Most all were in heavy clay soils in the south. 1. Clean and compact the bottom of the 30” hole. 2. Toss in a gallon of gravel. 3. Wrap the posts where the dirt hits the posts with 12-18” post wrap. They make this easier with a heat shrink product. 4. Use 2 bags of wet mixed concrete. 5. Let sit overnight and backfill post holes. 6. Add optional metal or plastic post caps. This system will last for decades if your 4x4 posts are treated well for ground contact.

Be great to see you try geopolymer and other unconventional cements for your concrete mix. Don't recommend dry pack for the alkali-activated mixes, though.

You definitely need to swap roles. You run the excavator and let the kid swing the sledge.

Iv got a like 5’ piece if 1/2” galv pipe with hose threaded and the end capped and couple 1/4 holes in the side. Shove to the bottom and “inject” the water in the concrete. I run a water pump and tank on my rig though

Nothing wrong with dry setting posts, as long as you have some moisture in the soil. If you build the fence properly, the strength of the fence will keep everything tied together and straight until the concrete sets. The benefit of dry setting posts is that you can build the fence quicker and make adjustments as needed. We used a two man auger with 8" bit. After drilling holes, we used a 3' level along with a string line to set posts. When we get to a hole, guy with level would put the post in to where he wanted, other guy would dump in roughly 25 lbs of concrete as that would usually come to 2-3" below ground. Then quickly kick dirt back over concrete, and guy with level would use level to tamp dirt. Once posts were in, we then proceeded to mark posts and set rails and string line. Once fence was up, it's all tied in together and pretty solid. Occasionally we would see a spot when looking down the fence that had to be adjusted, maybe 1-3 posts next to each other at most. Take the blunt end of the rock bar and pound down a couple inches away on the dirt at the base. This will slide the post, and the dry concrete will move around the post allowing for a solid set later. When I was building fences, my partner and I could do up to 450' of 6' privacy from start to finish with a custom gate or two in 12 hrs. That is getting to the jobsite with unopened bundles and pallets. Some people think that building fast meant cutting corners, not so if you have a well thought out method. Our tolerance was a quarter inch on both height and length. Never got called back for a failing fence after we left, but did receive quite a few referrals. Often ended up doing multiple houses on a block. Occasionally had to pull up a post that was a few years old from storm damage. Concrete was solid and adhered to post. Would take a few minutes with a sledge to crack it and remove. Maybe in an extremely dry climate you want to wet set, but anywhere with a decent amount of soil moisture, should have no issues as long as you tie in the rails to the post within a day, maybe two depending how wet your soil is. facebook.com/empirefence1/photos/pb.100069162013069.-2207520000/1641629516078293/?type=3

Don't know about the US, but here in Canada we have a product called Rapid Post... you put some in the hole, add your water... and then poke a sharp point down into it (like your digging bar) to kind of let the water get through the concrete. Then you add more dry and do the same. It has worked well for us so far, but it is FAR more expensive than regular concrete mix, and if exposed to too moist an environment the whole damn bag will become solid, or at least large sections.

Should add a bag to the hole and toss in a gallon and use the spud bar to stab the mix and then repeat for all bags. That is how i've done it.

We have used dry pour on a number of posts and it works fine but our method is slightly different. First wet the hole, throw in half a bag, add water, poke it with a bar, add the other half of the bag, add more water, more poking with the bar and repeat. It works well with quick set and much faster than mixing in the wheelbarrow. No tamping is needed, just vibration. P.S. Thanks for the videos by the way.

Nice. Thank you.

Question about screw'd-wood, or fence pillars at all... would it help if you dig up the hole which is wider at bottom? in a cone kinda shape?

For slab work, I bought a 'Steele mixer' so I can quickly mix one bag at a time manually. (Look it up) It might be a handy option for those wanting the ease of dryset without the shovel mixing in a wheelbarrow. But go wetset. Why chance it?

I run 8” - 10” pcs of rebar through the post instead of nails. Usually about 3-4 pcs alternating direction. Haven’t had a post fail yet but I really don’t know if it’s doing much or not

The man knows.

As clarified in the video, some 'fast setting' mixes are designed for dry mix into hole followed by water, others are NOT. This suggests different ingredients in the mix- if you use the wrong method with the wrong mix the results may not be...optimal.

My Dad taught me to tamp the bottom with a 2 by 4

the Bobcat Toolcat is a pretty cool machine. I was part of the team who designed the electronics for it. Code name: Odyssey

Mark! Mark! Mark! I can’t believe you used dirty water in your corn-crete!!! Every Ozark farm boy knows that the secret to successful post planting is to use cool fresh mountain spring water… iffen you are doing it during a drought, the only acceptable alternative is to substitute a few squirts of urine… which means you have to bring along a bottle of last years Elderberry wine to prime the pump.

two things with dry pack. 1/ Water in the hole if the ground is dry 2/ time A little water in the hole and a few weeks makes all the difference. . 3/ pound that stuff hard as you fill the hole

I recently watched a video where the guys added water to the hole, and THEN added the cement. I have no idea if this was a standard practice, but it was certainly the first time I seen it.

If you are just adding dry mix, we pour a gallon of water in dry season into the hole then add the concrete. Vibrate the post level and a mist of water at the top to trowel a downward slope to prevent water pooling and going between the wood and concrete. Freezing temperatures can crack tbe concrete. 6x6 posts ensure a 40 year fence!

Why when looking at the screwed post I keep thinking of Hellrasier.

I agree with @JacoBade 1000%! There are numerous sites where contributors extol using the dry pack method for fence posts and others pour dry slabs by just wetting the surface repeatedly. That dry pour stuff does NOT work if you want your slab to support more weight than a go-cart. The end result will be what’s called, “honeycombing.” The top of a dry pour slab will look okay, but beneath the surface, you’ll have nothing but dry cement material. Don’t believe me? Dry pour a very small slab for yourself and take a look underneath in a few days.

usually do 1/2 then water, tamp, then rest of mix, and water and tamp again.. then soil back over top, tamped..

Bobcats are so nice! 😂

Thanks for the follow up video. Very entertaining and you even got a workout out of it. Lesson, have they youngster learn to swing the hammer. Tell him it will make his arms bigger, something the girls will like.

Deep holes & deep pockets 💰 @SWi 🤣🤣

IIRC Doesn't fast-set concrete have even more organic-salts (like calcium-chloride) that pulls water in to enable the cement to cure even faster than normal concrete mixes (

No spreader bar?

I don't think dry pack would work well here in NM. Our ground is too dry. We get about 8" of precipitation per year, and the water table at my house is at 900 feet.

Pour water in the hole first, fill it with concrete, poke it with a stick. Water works up into the concrete. Top it off with concrete flick water on the top to get it to harden up. That post will not come out, won't bend or sway. Quick and easy no need for a mixer. The real trick to make it last a really long time is mound the concrete up above the soil level. Leave room for the fencing of course.

You have to saturate the whole dirt area around the hole for dry pour. Just leave the sprinkler on it overnight. The water penetrates the dry concrete from the sides then and builds pressure from the gravity of the water saturation above it. It's like power injecting the water into the compacted dry mix.

I’ll dry pour for mailbox posts, but not like this. I do buy the bag intended for dry pour, but add water as I go. Add water, wait, add more from bag, add water, wait etc. Layers. It’s viable if you don’t have a wheelbarrow and don’t want to mix beforehand, but DO have time to wait. I agree it may be typical for most people to only add water at the top. But nah, it won’t mix.

I throw a bucket of water in first, then concrete, then water on top. Osmosis draws the water into the mix, and sets the concrete

On the farm we use a post pounder

Sorry, I'm not convinced dry pack concrete is bad for all applications. I used concrete blocks to address severe erosion at the base of concrete bridge support walls at either side of a small creek. The previous owner had used rock, but the creek runs high and fast during the rainy season and it was a constant (losing) battle replacing the rock. I made a slanted wall, following the contours of the steep bank, using concrete blocks. I drove metal fence posts through the cores of the concrete blocks and into the creek bank, then filled the cores with dry concrete mix. I used no water at all. We don't really have a dry season, just a "less-wet" season, so the concrete solidified enough to stay put in a day or two, no rain needed. Each row of concrete block is connected to at least the row below it with the metal fence posts. The resulting beast of a "wall" hasn't budged in twenty years now, and the erosion problem went away completely.

for those who don't like dry pack. Have you ever left an open bag of cement in a not so dry shed for a year or so?

Can i wet set fast setting quikrete and have similar results or should i stick with the slower setting?

Wet cement is not compactable. Dry is. Dry pack posts can free stand- wet posts need support until somewhat cured. Dry pours need much longer to cure but eventually are equally as strong. Months or weeks rather than days.

I really don’t understand why someone would conduct a test of products and methods without reading the manufacturers instructions. The Quikrete in the yellow/orange bag is only intended to be mixed with water and then poured. It is not intended to be used to set posts w/o mixing. The Fast-Setting Quikrete in the red bag is the only product that is to be used in this manner. They got a bag of the red, but then never used it.

Yes it pays to follow the instructions. Thanks for a good vid.

If anything, the screws make it easier for water to penetrate the wood and rot the wood.

Misleading- adding water WILL save the concrete IF we use the proper 'Fast Setting' concrete mix, that's how it's designed to work. This video shows a (red) bag of 'Fast Setting' mix, but he didn't actually use it.

it all has to be wet at the same time , or else your not going to have a bonding chemical reaction

Are adding screws a common practice?

The "coulda/shoulda/woulda's" in the comments just provide you guys with more content fodder and proving them wrong along the way. LOL.

I only use holy water.

Love how he "read the instructions" which does not have a dry pack method (some do, like he said... but this does not) then says *why water won't save your dry pack* 😂 Dry pack concrete method sucks... I agree. I just trust mixed concrete more bc I can tell that it is well and fully mixed. But if you (A) never add water, (B) add too much water too fast, or (C) use the wrong type of mix, then it will never even have a chance.

Bruv. Trade in those tennis shoes for some work boots!

why didnt you sue the one that mentions dry set in the instructions

I suppose I’ve myself done some pretty foolish things in my life, but I’m glad I never thought I had to use bracing. To anyone who’s set a post prior to the KZfaq era, bracing has got to be the most idiotic, unnecessary concept to come along.

Better than dry pack it should be called low or no slump concrete. ever heard of a clam shell post hole digger.

You seem to have unlimited machine budgets so you should look into the "mud mixer" instead of doing that crap by hand. Hook a hose to it, power it, put in dry and it does the work and pours it out of the end mixed

I am a Wyoming Mau from the Kemmerer Cokeville, and Rock Springs area. The next time I'm up there, I'll reach out to you. I think we could trade some fun stories about that area of the country.

40 years in construction here. I try asking the "dry packers" if they would dump a box of cake mix powder into a pan, pour a cup of milk over it and a raw egg. No stirring...pop it in the oven and then happily eat the "cake" that results.? I guess it's the years of dumbing down in the public school system.

Add water to the bottom too

4 bags? Holy Hannah! One post, one bag. Or no bag, except at gates. I usually splash a little water in first to wet the soil and to settle "loose" soil to avoid "catastrophe". Drop in post, dry pour, tamp and then pour water on top. Later I kick in soil to top off and pack it down with my boot heel. So far so good (20 years) in northern Michigan.

“What’s your guys’ tool/equipment budget?” “Yes” 😂😂

This has to be the stupidest controversy ever. Throw half the water in the hole, than the concrete than some more water. Mix as best you can. Your done.

The second post screwed you.

I was not entertained by your video dry packing works. You do have to add a bucket of water to it and after time it’s still absorbs moisture from the ground cement set and Harden you’re not doing it justice

Tell the dry pack people that want to add water that the best time to add water is before putting the concrete in the hole

your wood is going to rot very fast since you're using concrete straight against the wood. Never do that, ever.

You have to use the fast set! I feel like most everyone that builds fences knows fast set can be poured dry and add water. What I don’t get is how you even read it on the instructions but then still did your dumb test using the wrong concrete

It does not matter if the concrete hardens, it is a barrier between the soil and the post. It is the soil that eats the post away. The post will stay upright if the concrete hardens or not.

Mix the damn concrete and stop the dumb dry posts. What next, flat earth?

Lets compare why posts are different when mixing concrete with water and with water poured on top. Oh, wait a minute, lets put screws in one post and not the other and call it a comparison. That's like putting on winter tires on a truck to drive out in the snow and ice and another truck with summer tires and then wondering why the performance difference. Both posts should have had screws installed or both posts without screws to be fair. Do it again fairly, Mark.

The music junked another video 👎👎👎👎👎💩💩😬