After 30+ years of using bucking spring, mechanical, rubber dome, chiclet, etc... I settled on Topre and absolutely love it.

IMO Topre isn't overrated, but it is overpriced. This coming from a RF 87U owner.

Thanks for this thorough review. I have the 84 version of the Niz and I really like it. It was also surprising for me to notice the significant increase in typing accuracy as well. Some learnings I got while researching this that can be worth sharing here: - The small metal spring inside the switches are solely for the purpose of measuring the position of the dome via the changes in the electronic capacitance changes in the spring. They are actually very lightweight so they do not contribute in any significant way to the feel of the keys. - This design allows them to change/tune the triggering point per key. With Niz one you can change the actuation point by Fn+F8 (toggling between three sensitivities)

I am now a happy owner of a niz plum. This baby feels amazing to type on. Thx for the review, really saved me tons of money since i was considering the topre board

I recently bought the Realforce R2 55g tkl (Non-Silent version), I also have the NIZ x87 (Tkl version of the NIZ shown in this video). Originally the NIZ I purchased had 35g, but I eventually upgraded it to 50g. Here's what I noticed, if you're after tactility, it's not a close contest at all. The R2 55g is a tactile king, meanwhile the NIZ at 35g has a linear feel to it. Even when I upgraded the NIZ dome to 50g it still felt quite light. Also the build quality of the keyboards was night and day. The NIZ is nice, but when I unpacked the R2, it made the NIZ feel like cheap plastic. The thing that surprised me the most between the two is the sound of the R2 was actually a lot quieter than the NIZ (Which is silenced), so don't take the sound test in this video seriously because they have a mic when she's typing. Overall, the NIZ feels nice and I even prefer it over any MX style keyboard, but make no mistake, if you want to experience the Topre feel, NIZ is not going to capture that.

ooh, a controversial topic! Liked!

oh my goodness, i really loved the sound of that niz !! so nice, and nice that you can change the keycaps with standard caps.

As a niz 82 owner, I absolutely love the feel and functionality. I type a lot and the light niz switches make the typing speed and fatigue much better compared to my other mechanical keyboards. The 82 version has the num lock feature as well (not that I use it very often). One thing that didn't get mentioned in this video is that niz lets you choose the actuation distance of the keys (i.e. how far down a press on the switch should be registered as an input), which is possible because the switch uses capacitors so technically you can pick any actuation distance in between. I use this functionality a lot and make my actuation distance very short if I want to type super fast.

I initially bought a niz plum as a work keyboard directly off aliexpress. Thought I was initially impressed by the lower price and feel of the keys. I started to notice issues when typing fast and firmly. Sometimes the keys would double type on a single press. I would have to remember to type very softly for certain keys. After a while I ended up buying a second realforce for work to match the one I had at home. The build quality was good, and I never had any double typing issues. So while I do agree with the price point being more acceptable for plum, the quality control and durability long term might be an issue.

Great video, Betty! I thought it may be worth saying just in case someone else hasn't: those mods are stabilised. That's why the top chassis slider wells are bigger on those keys. The stabilisers are inside the housing; you've got to crack the board open and dismantle it down to the PCB before you spot them. They're heavily lubed on HHKBs. Very impressed by that Niz Plum!

I feel like a better comparison would’ve been the silenced version of Topre since it sounds like the clone is trying to copy that version. The FC660C has a silenced version that’s quite similar from what I’ve experienced.

the topre sounds like a lobster trying to escape a pot of boiling water

"It looks old". Oh cmon, the vintage look is great. Much better than that RGB gamer thing that most keyboards are into. Sure, it's no match for custom keyboards, but it's still great compared to gamer style

I too have a niz plum Amazing quality and the THUMP is silency

Topre is a preference like any switches

I have a realforce and love it. It doesn't feel like any cherry switch and if you prefer the feel, it is worth the price.

I love your reviews. Objective, straight to the point, no need for yelling nor pretending to be super excited all the time. Keeping it real.

woah is it me or did the production quality just take a huge jump? great vid switch and click

this person read all the comments. that is awesome.

I'm so happy I found this video before confirming my order on an hhkb, thank you! SUBSCRIBED!!

owned a Niz Mini 84 before. Just preferred the typing sound, more variations of layouts and high-quality stabilizers.

Every single Topre-clone boards use the same rubber dome switches and sheets, which are manufactured by Niz/Plum ! It is said that Niz/plum dome sheets are 10g lighter than their Topre counterparts (45g topre is 55g niz). And since Niz/plum is more comparable to silenced topre switches

My first keyboard was actually a Realforce. I couldn't find anything overseas, so I bought one locally available to me.

When I hear the niz plum sound... It makes me feel like heavy rain hitting a window pane.... Calming stuff

I had the niz for a bit but sold it. I do think its really good though, but ultimately found that i still preferred my aluminum case customs and vintage boards. The EC switches feel really amazing and my typing speed on the niz ex 87 was super fast. Just not a huge fan of the plasticky case and clips to hold it together.

I love the Realforce boards. They’re so well built for a prebuilt.

Love this new video setup 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

When I was doing my research to buy a mechanical keyboard.I accidentally bought Drop+ Gateron Clear and HHKB Hybrid Silent. I will say Topre is still my favourite but Clear switch (I tried on a tester and decide to go with Clear) also is not bad. However, Topre makes me feel very serious typing machine, while Drop and other mechanical keyboard, with the RGB lighting, feels more fun to use. But I did lube, clipped Drops stabiliser, or I just couldn't accept the typing sound on spacebar, whole for HHKB I don't have to do anything, the enter and space keys have the best sound out of box. (And my kid stopped me when she learned that I had the idea to sell my Drop as she likes playing with the lighting effect a lot.) Among all the Topre choices, (HHKB, RealForce and Leopold) HHKB is the only one I want to consider as I don't want to encourage a brand in this year 2200 still using non-detachable micro USB.

Thank you Betty for this video, because of this I got my first Niz Plum X87. I come from Cherry MX Blues (yeah I know). For the first minute or so the Niz felt weird and squishy; however, after typing an hour straight (writing this on the 61st minute) I have no pain on my fingers. I also do powerlifting so typing more than an hour on MX Blues always hurt my fingers, especially on deadlifts, I don't think Niz will have any problem like that. It is like typing on clouds, you and the reviews on Amazon are correct. Also, I thought of getting the Camillo MT3 keyset that your husband uses for Niz (Aluminum), however, I am in love of the default keycaps, kind of rough to the touch and those white (oh la la) no videos do justice to how good looking those whites are, just love it. Also, the sound out of the box even for the spacebars and other stabs are just out of this world, dare I say THOCK! I wanted to try this before I jump on to the HHKB wagon, however, this is my end game (also got a sizeable discount from Amazon). Thank you so much for your review, you just won a sub for life.

The Niz sounds like you're pouring a bubble bath. They used to be around $75; then they seem to have re-evaluated and stopped going after the low-end market. You can also get heavier bubble sheets for them. It often seems like a lube-based keyboard would be really popular - just springs and lube. ;) I didn't notice the telltale 'thock' of the Topre, so maybe more lube? As for personal taste, 60% (and under) boards seem cramped to the point of being dysfunctional. I could get by on a 65% (with a separate num pad). 75%+ layouts visually scan faster for productivity/professional use IMHO, but I just like keys clustered by function.

One thing I've noticed as I've been using Type Racer to improve my speed is that if I type on a heavy spring for a while when I switch to a light spring my speed and accuracy is dramatically improved temporarily. The effect seems to go away after a few races!

Loved the video! The niz plum sounds fantastic

This really seems the board I'm looking for! I almost immediately bought the 82 key version of it. I like having navigational keys (home, pg down/up and end) as primary keys, but still benefitting from the compact size so my mouse can comfortably lie beside it :). Thanks for this great review!

Another factor for the price of the Realforce is that it’s made in Japan. If that is worth anything to the buyer, there it is. From what I gather, other quality Japanese brands like Filco and Archiss are made in Taiwan. I own 2 Realforce for Mac keyboards. One with the regular topre switches (black color like your review unit) and the other one with the silent switches (purple color). The silent switches seems to be better built than the regular switches: almost no rattle, silent bottoming out and upstroke, and generally feels better to me. Unfortunately, the price, I got the regular version for 24k yen and PFU limited edition (one with the silent switches) for 31k yen. Highest I paid for prebuilds, Topre is the Leica of ready made keyboards.

Your voice is actually relaxing

man, the sound of the niz just does something for me. of course its all opinion with this stuff but holy shit for me it seems WAY better. just ordered one

I’ve been wanting to try out Topre switches. The price doesn’t make sense. I just ordered an Epomaker. This makes sense. Great channel.

The problem with modern keyboards to me is the MX Housing. The MX type switches are originally designed to be linear switches and although I think the Green Alps are superior in every possible way, linear MX-type switches are great. But when the discussion comes to tactility and/or clickiness the MX type switches fail miserably. Even the Holy Pandas are no match for Topre in these categories imo. I can see and understand what most of the people are looking for when they build a custom keyboard but I prefer older keyboards and relatively niche housing on a switch. Great video by the way!

Good quantifying review, however, I did feel personally attacked when you kept roasting the realforce’s design. I like my classic keyboard look.

Pure ASMR. Sounds like the pitter patter of raindrops

Forgot to say nice video as always !

Thanks for your honesty in changing you pre-conceived idea about Topre. I'm puzzling about them myself.

I bought that same NIZ earlier in the year and my experience was the same as yours. Straight out of the box into a typing test and it was the fastest and most accurate keyboard I've used (although not close to your speed, lol). I like light switches personally, but I never expected something as light as 35g to be so accurate. I think your analysis is right, it's that extra stiffness at the top of the travel that makes it harder to make errors in comparison to other light switches, like the Gateron Reds I was using previously. I think this keyboard is especially recommended to anyone who likes light and even linear switches, it's so fast and accurate. The layout is also excellent. I have TKL and 60% layout keyboards, as well as full sized and this is probably my favourite. The one feature it may have been worth mentioning is that the NIZ also lets you adjust between 3 different actuation points (Fn + ') which may also help accuracy or speed depending on the typing style (a benefit of EC switches). Out of the box I think it's set to the highest, but I ended up preferring it on the middle setting.

I love Niz Plums so much, I have a lifetime supply of sealed boxed fresh keyboards so I can just plug a new one in if my first Niz ever dies. ITS SOOOOOOOO good. If topre would make a 25g or 30g I might switch back though.

I stick with Realforce and it's premium price primarily because they are the only keyboard brand that will make variable weighted keyboards which is my preferred style. Variable weight kind of gets a bad wrap thanks to gaming culture and pinky-less typists. But I think it's worth trying if you haven't, especially if you are serious about really mastering classical home-row touch typing.

Nice, honest, organised and awsome review. Glad I subscribed ! ^^

I want a sound in between the two. The NIZ is good but a little too muted, but the R2 sounds too high-pitched on the upstroke.

Got myself a bunch of topre keyboards to find which I like best and now I hate my mechanical keyboard 😂 Settled on the HHKB type 2 hybrid. Got the atom66 for backup just incase. The Atom66 feels a little bit lighter than the HHKB but the HHKB can be wireless which works for in the office. Either of the two for me are great keyboards and the mrs doesn’t complain about noisy keybaords. If you want a quiet keyboard, Topre is the way to go

I got Niz plum (topre clone) when my FC660C had some issues (loose connection port until I replaced it with the hasu controller - now it's a beast). The Niz felt feather light to press and the feedback bump was not as strong as the FC660C so it was lacking something to me. Once I got the FC660C fixed it became my primary driver again. I use Boba U4 + Iqunix + SA keycaps when I work as I need the F# keys + wireless, but other than that I go back to the topre. Topre feels so unique and sounds amazing.

I just received my NIZ x108 EC RGB keyboard!!!! I replaced the rubber domes, went from 35grams to the 50gram domes. Also, I ordered lots of extra 20gram springs. I installed 20gram springs on all the small keys, and installed 2x20gram springs on all the larger keys. Also , I just had to lube all the keys with dielectric grease. I absolutely love this keyboard and probably won't ever use mx switches ever again!! this is such a quality feel, just lovely to type on. the feel is amazing. thank you for introducing me to the NIZ!

EXCELLENT REVIEW! Straigt to the point and very informative. Thank you :)

Some people want things to be exactly how they always had it. That's the market for Topre. It made a niche for itself decades ago and everything is exactly the way it was to keep their customers coming back (and to save on costs). Now that high end keyboards are a far bigger market, the new players like Epomaker have the means to try their hand at competing with Topre, but they have a completely different approach because the keyboard world has learned a lot in the decades since Topre stopped changing. So the question is has mechanical keyboards improved beyond (or come near as make no difference to) capacitive, not has Epomaker made a good knock-off of a name brand.

Niz Plum finally getting some attention!

I looked at these. But to be honest, I could not motivate my wallet to get into the mechanical keyboards hobby without investing big time on improving my keyboard skillset completely. So now I'm rolling with a custom ortholinear with an alternative layout. For a person who didn't get into the hobby for social or economical reasons, I couldn't be happier. It's taking me time to get used to my custom setup, but I'm taking conscious control over how I interact with my computer. I don't think an artisan keyboard with fancy RGB would've done that for me ever.

Great video, learned a lot more about Niz and decide to buy one!

So I have an HHKB and a Realforce. Today I did a Pepsi Challenge. (Dated Gen X reference?) I directly AB'd them with my humble Logitech K850--which I prefer to the MX Keys, K650 and probably even my MX Mechanical with blue switches. But I expected it to get completely outclassed by Topre. It didn't happen. I suppose the overall Topre feel was a bit softer--which I attribute largely to the keycaps actually. But it was very, very close. And then when I consider the 850 is low profile, has a nice built in wrist rest, has a flatter layout which makes it easier to touch type........I mean. I think the K850 wins. I kind of like typing on it more than the Topres. I think Topre is for people who secretly love the soft feel of rubber domes but can't face loving the same kind of keyboards their mom uses or the jerk in their IT department gave them. But what if you could get that key feel but it costs $200--$300? And what if almost no one IRL has ever heard of them? Now you've separated yourself from the unwashed massed. Topre sells exclusivity. But maybe not much more.

Great review and very detailed explanation of everything. Also love the improved production values. Critique: Your head was a bit cut off and your hair was rubbing against the lapel mic. Lighting was fine. Keep making such high quality videos!

I prefer the epomaker only because it sounds like placing Minecraft cobblestone in a way

congrats on 13k!!

Hey! It's been about one year and I still have my full size keyboard from niz! I love it the same I did as when I first got it. I'm waiting for the new year for the aluminum case! It was because of this video that made me try it :)

You were at 400 subs a few moths ago, great to see how much your channel has grown!

Is there an RGB cherry stem equivalent that comes close to the comfort/feel of the niz switches? I have the niz plum and it is BY FAR the most comfortable typing experience but I need RGB to quickly highlight specific macros. Can you suggest something that's actually available to easily get / still made?

I really appreciate the video. It looks like now Niz Keyboards are only to be found on their website, and start at about $180.

Found your channel researching about topre keyboard. Loved the content and the honest review. Constructive criticism: editing needs to improve. e.g. the intro music felt cut-off

I love the vintage looking keebs ngl

Bought the Niz Plum and am loving it so far. Only issue I've found is that you can't turn off the caps lock back light on Mac. A minor annoyance if you remap the key to something else like esc.

Such a good scratchy thocky sound. It’s hard not to love Topre after you’ve tried other stuff.

The question, do u like the feel or the sound more when considering Topre keyboard... I guess.

perfect board vid

I really suggest you one day to test the Aliaz 100g switch one day. There are my fav :-) Anyway thanks for this video. I wanted my first keyboard to be an Atom 66, but I ended with a real mechanical (Iqunix F60 2020) and do not regret it.

Hoooray! My wife uses the Niz keeb! I've not watched it yet.. hope Niz comes on top :P

These sound so scratchy and sticky. The feel of this board I hope is worth the horrid sound.

topre is the best tactile switches ❤️❤️❤️

I really like the Realforce R2 board, the feel of topre and the sturdy feel of the base feels good. Personally i prefer heavy switches compared to light switches, which is why I bought the 55g board when I was in Japan 2 years ago. It is easily the best tactile board I have ever typed on. The only qualm I have with the board is the basic layout and lack of detachable cable.

It's unfortunate that the epomaker mini 84 is discontinued and the micro 84 front print version doesn't have any hope of coming back, I wanted to buy it, I don't like the aesthetics of the 84 pro tho :( great video, I hope you guys continue to make videos and get sponsorships, I really enjoy this channel, hope you guys make a refresh on alt keyboard layouts since it looks to be a common topic nowadays... Or maybe is because I'm in the dvorak community....

the nizz brooo im in love with the sound

FYI : The niz plum model on your video and the link it's not the same one. I just noticed after I watched several times and I already bought the model in the link which is Niz plum 66 but what you reviewed is Niz 68 . You can noticed by the right shift key since it not the same , the 66 version shared the R shift with the arrow up key . and Now I bought the 66 already. haha it's in my hand now and typing with it. Thanks for the review by the way

how does the 55g compare to a cherry mx red?

The Niz Plum sounds like water flowing from rain gutters after a big storm.

I’m looking forward to this

few things weird about this video.. 1. You're definition of electro capacitive switches are really off..sort of giving misinformation. 2. The springs aren't there for a "regulated spring force" whatever that means. They're for registering key presses with the PCB, it uses capacitive sensing to detect how far or how much the spring is compressed. Which is why they're considered a hybrid mechanical board. 3. You yourself said you prefer a lighter switch, then why would you compare with a 55g board topre board, those are already very niche and feel very different from their normal 45g board. 4. It's also weird you keep referring to the weight as spring force implying you think the spring is what dictates the weight for topre boards, which is incorrect.. it's the domes that give the weighting. Just makes it seem like you didn't really do proper research of topre boards/switches. 5. You're doing a sound comparison of a silent clone vs normal topre switch, that's like comparing cherry mx blues to a cherry mx clear.. kind of weird. 6. You said the Niz has a lot more features like being mac compatible and bluetooth.. wouldn't a HHKB Professional Hybrid be a better comparison compared to a realforce?

Because of your vids I now bought a Niz Plum 84 and what should I say, it really is like typing on clouds. 😊 Now I need to find keycaps for German Layout, mhmm.

Topre gang rise up

The amount of your head that's being cut off in the shot is really throwing me off. I had to stop the video to check and make sure my page wasn't partially scrolled or something. Other than that, good job on the comparison. Useful information throughout.

I personally have the same thoughts with topre so it’s cool to know that I’m not the only one, it really just comes down to preference and there is no denying that it’s overpriced

didn't get a HHKB? Seems like a no brainer for testing out topre

More like underrated

I literally bought the niz 2021 and just got it. I hate how loud the spacebar is, you should try the smaller niz keyboards with the smaller spacebar. My friend has the mircro 84 and it sounds like a whole different keyboard on every key and has like 0 rattle on the stabilizers. Niz told me to return mine through amazon but after seeing this video I think thats just how loud these spacebars are on the 2021 87 models. Gonna probably try the Micro versions next with the small space bar. EDIT: I was wrong, niz said my spacebar was broke somehow and to exchange it. I exchanged it and it sounds amazing with basically no rattle.

Nice to know that I don't have to sacrifice an arm and a leg for a electrostatic capacitive key switch. Great video!

Interesting, I came across Livakivi's HHKB topre non-mechanical switch buy seems to be still cool, keyboard, a kb from 2003. God bless.

After watching this video I bought the niz plum! It was my favorite keyboard for a year or two but then just recently the space bar just stops registering key presses once every 5 strokes or so 😑 it's very upsetting

just wanna say that Niz Plum is also my daily driver now as well. I might never come back to a mech keyboard unless something else can come close (to the typing experience and sound signature) AND cheaper than this.

So much rattle though dang.

Tried the Topre and the Plum. Not impressed. I dont like the sound, i need a more defined sound and Topre switches are missing this. So i guess im stick with my tactile mx style switches. Good Video. Im learned a few things and i really liked it :)

After I tried a dozen or so options, I settled on Topre and haven't changed for over 11 years. I use it for everywhere, sitting indoors, dusty places, outdoors, cold, warm, patio. Keyboards with lots of lube are a sign they may not work optimally in hairy homes. If you have pets, Topre's it.

Ironically im looking at this video because my cat pissed on my R2 and fried it (none of the top rows work unfortunately, even after the isopropyl treatment) and i'm looking at a replacement. I honestly feel like my partner just died haha. Im very tempted to get the Niz after watching this, i love the bump of it. I guess its worth mentioning, so, for those who are thinking about Topre switches, just be very very prepared for how tedious the disassembly process is if you ever need to get to the PCB, while a testament to how well built these boards are, putting it back together properly can be a task that takes about an hour or so (especially if you want to clean the entire board after a spill for example).

Just a clarification. Epomaker is a distributor of NIz. So it's not an Epomaker NIz Plum.

Sooo.... I don't want to be that person, but I would really recommend learning more about Topre before making a video about them. Because there are so many mistakes. Ok here we go... 1. The Epomaker has silencing rings on the sliders, but the Realforce doesn't. That's why the upstroke is louder on the Realforce. Realforce also sells keyboards that have silencing rings on the sliders, they are known as their purple sliders. So it's quite a bit of an unfair comparison here. 2. Topre keyboards need just as much modding as Cherry MX keyboards to get the most out of them. They can be lubed, have silencing rings added (an absolute must in my opinion), there are aftermarket cases like the Norbauer that come in aluminum and steel variants, different keycaps, different weights and different dome styles like the BKE domes... The newest trend is to add sound dampening foam between the slider holders and top case, because those can cause rattle. And of course there is case foam, different plate materials, keycaps, etc. 3. The realforce does have stabilizers, but they are underneath that black plastic shielding. And they are factory lubed, but I would definitely recommend lubing them afterwards because it's not enough lube. They need a lot of lube. Like, a loooooot of lube. But because of the rubber domes, you don't really need to worry about making them sluggish. Anyways, I just think this video could use a redo, thank you for the videos nonetheless, it's just this one that I think doesn't have the facts straight.

87UW55 for 4 years

Omg she sounds so different in old videos