Matt Kincade, was a great friend of mine. We met when he flew F-18’s while stationed at NAS Lemoore. He left behind his wife Gina and 2 sons, Kyle and Brandon. Thanks for the information Juan!

Juan: Willy, 66A. Totally agree. The student’s parents sued the Air Force alleging there was “no military requirement for formation landings.” The elimination of formation landings was a reaction to this lawsuit. Once lawyers start determining your training program, things go downhill regarding producing quality, confident pilots. (IMHO).

Thanks for sharing this video. I was in Class 73-01 at Williams AFB (graduated July ’72 - it was a fiscal year thing), and then instructed at Williams in the T-38 until January 1976. I agree with your comments about the continued “dumbing down” of the UPT program. (I especially liked your comment, “If one person wets the bed, EVERYBODY has to wear diapers.”) I’ve gotten into discussions with a few other airline pilots that were former military, and there seemed to be agreement that there's a difference between how the Air Force and the Navy treats accidents. This is MY synopsis of what has happened. The Air Force often operates off of 10,000 foot runways that are firmly anchored to the ground. The Navy, at least a significant part of it, operates off of carriers with short decks while the ship is pitching and rolling. They are very different environments, the latter being inherently more dangerous. The result (again, my opinion) is that because of the different natures of their operations, there is generally a higher accident rate with Navy aircraft than with the Air Force’s (at least as far as takeoffs and landings go). And that disparity that is rooted in their different flying environments has led to different mindsets, especially among the brass, when it comes to EXPECTATIONS regarding accidents. Back in those earlier years, all our flight scheduling was done on plexiglass boards with grease pencils. The way one pilot put it, when the Air Force has an accident, they fire the squadron or wing commander. When the Navy has an accident, they take a rag, go to the scheduling board, and wipe the tail number of that aircraft off the board. One of the things I saw when flying in Air Training Command was that this risk-adverse attitude led pretty much to a policy where whenever there was an accident, the corrective action was to find out what the pilot was doing immediately BEFORE the accident, and then prohibit that maneuver. So when a student pilot bought the farm in the final turn during a night overhead pattern, they then prohibited night overheads and went to straight in approaches (which any instructor will tell you is far more hazardous for the instructor due to the poor visibility from the back seat in the T-38.) This reached the point of absurdity when four planes with instructors (from another base) made a cross country flight to Navy Glenview near Chicago. As they approached the base, there were thunderstorms in the area. Three of the planes diverted. The fourth guy reportedly was meeting his girlfriend and pressed on in - and got hit with the first gust of the thunderstorm and pranged the T-38 into the overrun. Air Training Command’s corrective action? ATC aircraft could no longer fly into Navy bases. I kid you not!!! Some time later, somebody rethought the draconian response to that accident, and they softened the policy. From that point on, you could ONLY fly into a Navy base if you had PREVIOUSLY flown into a Navy base! (Eight of our IPs had already planned a cross country that weekend from Williams up to Fairchild AFB (Expo ’74 was in progress) and we made SURE we checked that box before anybody started asking questions. (I spent all of ten seconds on Whidbey Island on the flight from McChord to Fairchild.) But I agree that while training in itself is hazardous and that when you are learning to do hazardous things, sometimes accidents DO happen, there is a much larger downside when you train to a lower standard. That leads to more accidents and losses during wartime, and even lost wars. That is a far greater cost.

Willy 89-14 here....Raindance and Hacker. Also T-38 instructor at CAFB later. Love the channel, great synopsis here. Also hate that everyone suffers just because one unfortunate accident. The Air Force should just stop all flying, it's dangerous and something bad might happen!

I have a friend that is in the National Guard that I have know since High School. He said the same thing about his T38 training. It was amazing how far down range you are before you realize the gear is still down. Best part of his training and then, like you, he went on to fly the C130’s or what ever they call the model now... His fondest memories of training was the T38. He eventually became the Base Commander and then moved to HQ and now is a Brigadier General. I’m proud of all of you that are serving or have served. You are one of many of America’s Hero’s. Wish I had joined as well... Prayers for the families of the survivors. Damn shame....

Thank you for your review of this accident. I have a few thoughts on the accident and your comments on the use of the rudder in the T-38. They are connected. I was a T-38 IP (1500 IP hours in the T-38) at both Reece (UPT) and Randolph (PIT) in the early 70's. When i was instructing at Reece formation landings were introduced into the UPT syllabus and IPs had to qualify in them before instructing students. What we initially thought was going to be a very difficult maneuver became, if not routine, also not terrifying. LIke most maneuvers in high performance aircraft, the results are highly intolerant of momentary distractions, inattention to detail and ill-timed control inputs. The approach phase was nothing new since formation approaches were already a syllabus requirement. The transition to landing was the new part. Since we weren't required to maintain fingertip through the touchdown the transition to landing really became two airplanes landing at the same time in the center of their side of a 150 foot wide runway followed by individual aero braking on the roll out. That put 60-70 feet between aircraft during the touchdown phase. First Point: In setting up for the approach 51-38, the T-38 document which specified requirements for each and every maneuver in the T-38 flying syllabus, the wingman was placed on the upwind wing for the formation approach and landing. Recognizing that there was not a large crosswind component from the description of this accident. it looks like this wingman was on the downwind wing. Weather vaning into the wind is always an issue in the landing phase. I recall many landings at Reece where high crosswind components were routine, when I had the stick (ailerons) full deflection into the wind and the rudder almost full opposite. You still had to fly the aircraft all the way down the runway until you pulled off at the end. In this accident the initial phase of the closure between #2 and #1 could have been a result of not controlling the weathervaning potential into the lead aircraft from being on the downwind side of the landing. During the initial movement a little left rudder might have stopped the drift into lead. Second Point: The rudder is the last control surface to be lost as an aircraft transitions from fully controlled flight to an out-of-control situation. Yes, I too was instructed to "keep my feet on the floor" by most of the IPs I flew with in the T-38 when I was in UPT. My assigned IP, bless him, actually advocated a judicious use of the rudder and I began to use it just so, judiciously. It was very effective in fingertip to make small changes to your lateral spacing. At higher angles of attack (AOA) it was a highly effective, and probably the best control for rolling the aircraft. This became very obvious, and very important, when later in my career is was assigned as a F-4D IP at Homestead, FL. In the "hard wing D" which had no leading edge slats like the "softwing F-4E", use of aileron at high AOA would lead almost directly to a high speed departure from controlled flight which is a nice term for a "violent shuddering high speed snap roll" in the opposite direction to where you wanted to go. Use of the rudder at high AOA resulted in a very nice rolling movement in the direction you desired without the exciting dreaded "hardwing" departure. The rudder was also a very effective control for managing "nose position" one of the most critical requirements in an air-to-air engagement. My first training the F-4 was in the E model or the "soft wing" version with leading edge slats. Interestingly, many of the IPs in my training squadron advocated minimal, if any, use of the rudder because it flew much like a T-38 at high AOA. I began using the rudder more and more and it paid off when I later became an IP in the hardwing D model. Minimizing or eliminating use of the rudder in any aircraft is giving up not just one of the three control surfaces (the throttle is certainly a control, just not a surface) but giving up arguably the one that will be the last to go in a degenerating control situation. Based on my experience as a T-38 and F-4 IP over the span of 17 years, my three year assignment as a headquarters STAN/EVAL flight examiner and my experience as the pilot member on a F-4G mid-air accident in northern Germany I respectfully submit that positioning the wingman on the up wind side of the formation and a judicious use of the rudder in this accident could have precluded #2's drift into lead, the resulting collision and the fatal result. This by no means should be construed to denigrate the reputations of these two individuals. I have a fair number of squadron mates who are no longer with us as a result of aircraft accidents but this reply is submitted with the objective of preventing future accidents of a similar nature and to encourage pilots to: 1. Be prepared to use all of the controls available to them all the time and 2. "Fly" the airplane all the way to the chocks. Respectfully, bk

I totally agree that flying training shouldn’t be “dumbed down.” Deepest sympathies to the family and friends of the 2 pilots lost. I’ve carried out many formation landings in fast jets. In the UK where the weather is often poor, a “pairs landing” gets your formation down in half the time (you could be a formation of 4 or more ). Keep up the good work Juan.

I agree totally. Do NOT lower the standards to the performance, raise the performance to the standards. We have to KEEP the highest standard of skills at all times. There is no place for second place!!

I graduated class 81-03 from CAFB. I’m shocked to hear that the USAF will no longer require formation landings in the T-38. Formation flying in the T-38 was such a confidence builder. Nice job, as always with the video! I really enjoyed my time flying the T-38.

For the .00000001% of three cents that it may be worth, I agree with your take on keeping the best possible system going for pilot training. Good analysis and discussion JB.

Dear Mr.Browne as a civilian who never flew nor served in any of the U.S. armed forces but am an avid fan,I really enjoy watching the Bloncolirio chanel and have been for many years now. That said I really respect your opinions,& this includes the topic of this particular episode on the T-38 and the mishap & loss of 2 airmen,& agree that the original training IE: Landing in formation should continue as to weed out the wrong candidates,& not be dropped 100% as is proposed...🙏❤👍🇺🇸

I completed Pilot Training at Reese AFB in 1971 after T=41, T-37 and T-38s. We started with 80 and graduated 30. God, the 38 was great to fly. I loved aerobatics and formation but it was tough every day. I flew later in Combat and was grateful for that toughness. We had one student eject safely and very fortunately no deaths. Several of my classmates however did die in crashes later in their careers. There are no adequate words for the families of these two pilots. Thanks Juan for reporting this incident.

I was a T-38 PIT instructor at Randolph AFB in the mid 70's and did many formation touch and go's. I always showed my better students an adverse yaw roll and a dirty rudder roll, neither of which were in the syllabus, but I felt were necessary "tools" that my PIT instructor (an ex F-100 jock) taught me. I learned to guard those rudder pedals, they can save you or kill you. It is a shame to see a maneuver that has been required for over 50 years removed because someone's mommy thought it was too dangerous. I remember my Mother's advice for me before UPT was "Don't go too high or too fast". Formation landings were an important confidence maneuver

So sad loss of life. The instructor was wanting his apprentice to recover the aircraft to build confidence within him. Sad for their families and may God Bless them.

Juan, I too had the pleasure to fly the T-38 as student (class 68F) and then 4 years as IP at Webb AFB. I was lead IP in a 4 ship where the number 4 solo student flew through the wake turbulence of number 3 during the climbing portion of a 4 ship loop. We did a controllability check at 15000 ft where he put the gear down then when he started putting the flaps down he flipped inverted and started diving. I yelled for him to put the gear and flaps up and roll level. He ended up flying a straight in flaps up landing. So it was our formation that got T-38 4 ship loops taken out of the syllabus. Remember: Flying Safety is paramount to the completion of the mission .... no comment.... Turns out the empty seat pack had jumped out of the tray and prevented the stick from being pulled back when the flaps were extended. Thanks for a great report, and so sorry for the loss of two Airmen!

My father spent 27 years as a USAAF/USAF pilot. (Class of 43C.) Started in PT-22s, combat in the P-38 (6 confirmed kills), P-47, F86s, and a few of the century fighters. Retired flying as a B-52 Aircraft Commander. Told me multiple times, his favorite airplane was the T-38....Unlimited in what you could do with it. He didn't have the chance to see the 15,16, or the latest and greatest however...

I love hearing you talk about this plane. Heartbreaking situation tho.

I was a T-38IP at Columbus AFB beginning in 1970, and a check pilot soon thereafter. When I think about the wisdom of removing formation landings from the syllabus, I recall an event that makes the point of keeping them. We had a four-ship formation flight, launched into questionable weather that deteriorated quickly near the end of our mission. Ops closed our runways and we were ordered to divert west to Memphis NAS. Not a great Ops call as a solid wall of thunderstorms was threatening Memphis and we were approaching minimum fuel. As we let down to Memphis NAS, we were advised by tower that a Naval aviator had just crashed on the runway and the runway was closed . Only option was to turn south towards Memphis International Airport. We advised the civilian tower we were a four-ship with minimum fuel, and requested an overhead pattern. The answer? No, due to other incoming traffic. Straight-in only, So our second element immediately slowed for separation and we landed both two-ships at the same time, one right after the other. Training prevented what could have been an unfortunate loss of aircraft.

Excellent video. Working as a crew chief at Wiliams AFB 1969-1971 I watched the student pilots coming through. In those days they started in Cessna 150's went to T-37 and finally the T-38 which I crewed. I believe the training period was 53 weeks.The instructor pilots were great, many View Nam vet pilots. Some times we would miss inform a student as to what a function of a minor part on the aircraft did. Of course they later figured it out but before I ever did that I had asked permission of the Instructor. We knew or at least I did, how stressed some of these students were. But a lot of humor could usually be found even among then. Loved that job!

My son was ATC on that fateful day. Thank you for such a wonderful explanation.

Mover did a great video on this. Glad you're both providing your perspectives. Keep the great content coming, Juan.

Juan, your best video in months. Outstanding job! Thank you for the super detailed, and easy to understand report. You are the best at this (unfortunate) topic.

Class 72-06 at Moody. You are absolutely correct on my first takeoff. I did not catch up until 10,000 feet. Our washout rate was lower, but I remember discussing it with my primary instructor. I made it and eventually was an Aircraft Commander in a B52. Retired as an O5.

When I was an Instructor, it was always a difficult call when to take control away from the student. Too early and the student doesn't have the opportunity to make the corrections, too late and this happens. It's too bad the Air Force has suspended this training.

It's been a long time - 70-02 at Vance. I fondly remember our T-38 four ship flights but not two ship landings. Great video of a tragic event. Thanks.

The hardest thing an instructor has to learn is when to take over control from the student. You have to let the student learn from his/her mistakes but you can’t let them get into a situation the will become too dangerous. This is especially true when you have a student who is not doing well as the IP taking over control may end up being the last bad mark resulting in washout.

I was but a humble Jet Engine Mech on F15s, 1980-1983. Been a civilian for 38 years now. But I was glad to hear your opinion on the need to not dumb down the flight training requirements after a tragedy like this. That was my exact instinct as I was listening to you tell the story. Prayers for the pilots' loved ones.

I was stationed at Williams AFB from Feb of"66" until Oct of "67" . I was a jet mech. the T-38. I transitioned to F-4's when I went to Viet Nam. I 'm 76 now and to this day Williams a T-38's have a special place in my heart! Fly On!

Juan, much respect for you Sir. I see this was a difficult video for you to make since it hit close to home from the experience in your training. Dayton Ohio Air Show is a place to see, feel and converse with the men trained to fly these amazing machines not knowing in reality how unforgiving these planes can be.

Excellent analysis and explanation. As a former T-38 IP in the mid 80's (including a tour at ENJJPT), I made numerous wing landings with students. Although they are challenging, they are not as difficult as when students are first learning how to land the T38 on their first several single ship training rides. The toughest call any IP has to make is clearing students for their first solo ride. Well, maybe busting a student (failing grade) on a lesson is pleasant either. As far as continuing having wing landings in the program, I'd say it depends on whether these wing landings are an important part of the operational fighter communities needs. If they are used in operational squadrons then they need to keep them in the program.

Thank you for explaining this mishap. I wanted to be a fighter pilot in the late 80's. I remember seeing the T-38's practice at march AFB in Moreno Valley and watching them peel to the left over the 215 fwy on final approach! What a sight to see.! RIP Lt Col John "Matt" Kinade and 2Lt. Travis B. Wilkie

Just observed a salute formation flyover the hospital for health care workers in Visalia by the California ANG. So much respect for those skilled F15 pilots. And thank-you health care people!

Mover did a great explanation on this also RIP to all involved.

I had the chance and pleasure to meet Matt on one of his fly-ins to castle AFB (now Atwater airport), was a great and humble aviator.

I can imagine how hard looking right or left and still managing to fly straight is. In auto racing we are always taught to look where you want to be. If you look anywhere else you will instinctively drift that direction.

Juan, good explanation of this tragic accident.... graduated from UPT in 1972, but went through the same program as you explained with one addition the T-41.....we had a similar accident of sorts, single ship T-38 while starting the landing flare one of the pilots used too much rudder and the aircraft flipped upside down and the aircraft slid down the runway and then off to the side....result was two fatalities, when I saw pics of the aircraft for this accident, it brought back all those memories

I miss the sonic booms. I lived 45 miles from Reese AFB and we heard them a lot. I also lived 5 miles from Vance, and 15 miles from Dobbins AFB/NAS Atlanta. I love jets, and military planes.

Good explanation of a tragic loss. RIP LT Wilkie and LTC Kincade.

May the family and friends find comfort in the Lord. Me and my twin brother graduated Williams AFB Class 72-03. I went to PIT at Randolph AFB, then served 3 years at Williams as a T-37 IP. My brother went to B-52's. I detected deep emotions as you explained the incident. The 'White Rocket' was not forgiving; but was an awesome aircraft! I was assigned to B-52's and instructed for 16+ years out of 20 (2 tours at Castle AFB). The B-52 is also an awesome airplane. Instructing Air Refueling for 20 minutes to pass a check ride is extremely challenging. The largest fuel transfer I have received is 100,000# of JP-4 in one continuous contact, out of Mildenhal, England (Air Fete '86). God's Speed!

I graduated from Vance in class 72-08 and went on to fly the C-130 in the Southeast Asian wargames. I flew the T-38A at Laughlin AFB, TX from 1976 - 1980. I had my share of letting a student go to far and thank God I'm still alive. The formation landing will return to the syllabus as soon as a crew has to eject from a survivable aircraft due to a pitot system failure. In the period 1960 to 1980 we began flying to the maximum extent under IFR control. A VFR navigation mission was added when First Assignment Instructor Pilots were unable to enter a traffic pattern at a strange airport without scrambling busy civil traffic at nearby civil airports.

Hey Juan just wanted to say we are still instructing formation approaches in fighters but not the takeoff or landing portion. There just aren’t that many cases where you need to actually touch down or takeoff on the wing compared to the risk it exposes. Leading someone back to short final with an emergency procedure meets the need in a vast majority of cases.

Thank you for the report Juan! Appreciate the reporting you do. This story was a close to home story for me as I live in Oklahoma City. I am currently working on my private pilot license a small 1.5 hour lesson has my brain clogged up. I can’t imagine starting at 3AM and going all day. I hate seeing the Air Force dumb doesn’t the training though. Thanks again!

Condolence's to LT. Col Kinade's family and condolence's to 2ND LT. Wilkie's family. I would not known about this tragedy but for Juan's channel.

I just wanted to say I really really enjoyed watching this, especially the part at the beginning Juan where you showed your photos and talked about your experience. Its nice to see these little self-reveals because you've had such an interesting life! I also learned a lot about an accident I hadn't even heard of. Sad that two pilots were lost in this and it seems it was just basically an unfortunate accident, not something that someone did terribly negligently.

Fellow Williams grad, and made many a formation landing in the T38. Always amazed at how safe we were despite the rather dangerous maneuvers we performed. However, from what I learned formation landings are rarely done in the CAF. Pulling this maneuver out of the syllabus seems a good call.

So sad! An one of my favorite aircraft too! God Bless both instructor an student an theirs!

blancolirio - thanks for your analysis. Vance 82-08 here! I hope that makes you feel a smidge younger. 1st rule of flight instructing- you may let your student exceed his/her capabilities (if there's training value) but never let your student exceed your ability to recover. Very sad outcome. I wanted to fly 141's, appreciate your flub of mentioning them. I knew I was gonna be FARed but wanted the 141. I rolled the dice, put 141 on my dream-sheet and made DG so got my 141 to CHS. I agree that wing landings were an important part of the training. Many disabled aircraft were led to a safe recovery due to this training. The T-38 was a dream to fly! The IPs always reminded you that however fun it was it could kill you before you knew you were in trouble. Remember the stall buffet around the final turn? Stay safe and happy landings!

My dad graduated Vance in 1952 - apparently they required them to fly the T-33 which was his favorite as he wanted to go into fighters. Of course his evaluation put him in bombers instead.

I was shocked to hear the tactical air force no longer does wing landings. In fighters about the only time you ever fly in finger tip is on takeoff and coming up initial or penetrating weather. Otherwise you are in route position or some sort of tactical formation to enhance mutual support, look out and safety. I liked to burn a little gas now and then doing some lazy eights in fingertip. It really blew off the cob webs flying large pitch and bank angles with the wingtip in the star. Accidents are horrible things anyway and fatalities make it much much worse. ATC used to drop a T-38 every few months and sometimes weeks in the 70s, but the sortie rates command wide were much much higher back then. As an instructor in the T-38, and I did it for a long time, the closer you are to the ground or to another airplane the closer your hands have to be to the stick and throttles. In the pattern my hand formed a halo about six inches across around the stick whenever we were below 1000 feet or so. You never bumped the stick or allowed it to bump you, but when your personal limits were exceeded you seized control while calmly saying that you had control of the aircraft and flew it out off the issue while explaining what went wrong. I think the IP here got very surprised where time is measured in mili-seconds. My sincere condolences to the families of the student and the instructor. They lost their lives in service to their country and we should be forever mindful and thankful that men like them step up and serve.

While I learned some interesting fact and information on my recent CFI renewal, I feel that the lessons and principles learned and reviewed are far deeper and impactful when I watch these videos on this channel. Thank you.

My sincere gratitude to all military personnel (past and present) for the sacrifices made by you and you're family. Tragic to have lost such a senior instructor and a gifted trainee. Split second decisions make or break us all.

Rip to our heroes - thanks juan, loving being a patron to the fine and dedicated work you do, if it wasnt for this video - i wouldnt have even known about these pilots sacrifice to our country, prayers for their families and all our servicemen in harms way.

Can't help but wonder what these two gentlemen would be doing today. Great information/analysis, thanks!

Our condolences to the families of these brave service men of our military.

Great report. Thanks, Juan. LOVE the piano cover of the BoC tune at the end! Perfect eulogy music for pilots.

1986 I was a T-38 student at Vance AFB and was involved in near identical accident during a two ship T-38 landing. #2 landed wide with one tire off the runway surface, tire struck a distance to go marker, roll 60 deg bank towards us as the lead aircraft. Luckily the #2 IP was able to recover the aircraft with AB and take it around, he nearly scraped the wing tip by inches .....Could have easily ended up with the same result. Reminds me how lucky we all were that no one was injured and nothing but the plywood marker was damaged.

Hello, Juan !! Always glad to hear your technical expertise and explanations of aeronautical accidents. Appreciate you. Stay healthy and blessed !!

The T-38 looks like it was built yesterday and goes Mach 1 while sitting on the ramp.

Colonel Matt Kincade lived in my neighborhood just around the corner from me. Last week, his family just hosted a memorial golf tournament at Oaktree Country Club (Edmond, OK) in his memory. Hopefully this will be an annual event so as to never forget his service to and sacrifice for our great nation. He and other instructor pilots train our nation’s air warriors. Never forget. Also, let’s remember and honor LT Travis Wilkie and the many other the young warriors in training, who are the next generation of defenders of freedom. They know full well they are entering a deadly profession, one that will cost many their lives, but they still willingly do it. Such brave young men and women! From where does such bravery come?

Thanks Juan. Another very knowledgeable (and first hand) review and analysis of the facts from an accident report.

Col. Kinade, Lt Wilkie, God Bless you for your sacrifice to keep our country free. RIP

When I was flying with VX-5 at the Naval Test Center at China Lake we worked out an exchange program with the pilots at Edwards AFB for some of us to get a fam flight in a T-38 Talon while some of them came up and checked out the TA-4 Skyhawk. You are absolutely correct. That T-38 was a gem of an aircraft--powerful and delightfully sensitive in roll. As for the dropping formation landings from the training regimen, I learned to do it, too, and I'm all for retaining a demanding syllabus but what is the point of training to proficiency on a risky maneuver they will never execute operationally? This student's weakness was formation flying, which involves a mastery of spacial perspective and distance using an active outside scan. He was weak on the latter two points which repeatedly saw him drifting too far from the lead plane. (Leading to panic with imprudent and excessive rudder input when he found himself too close the runway edge, triggering the accident sequence.) A much better exercise for developing a proper formation sight picture, scan, and fine muscle control is formation acrobatics. Not quite as close as the Thunderbirds, but almost, doing wingovers and barrel rolls. It's challenging, hard work, and stressful but teaches flying skills that are the bread and butter of fighter pilots, whether flying formation in tight for the break or in IFR conditions, 400' apart in loose deuce, or 1/2 mi in combat spread. That's stuff you do all the time. Nobody lands in formation anymore unless they're a flight demonstration team. It was an archaic requirement.

Love the review. I was a USAF Air Traffic Controller 82-91 last assignment was KMER California. Worked Eiffel Center Germany 83 to 86

Juan, thank you for explaining the NTSB conclusion so well. So scary to think how quickly this happened. My son flew T-38s at Vance when he was in training there. He then flew the F-15E and later the F-15Cs, and now flies the F-35A and has been an instructor pilot in the F-15C and the F-35. i remember him telling me how critical the landing speed and handling of the T-38 was. I was feeling emotional just listening to you, just knowing how many fine men and women have flown that jet, and went on to help defend our country. They are awesome pilots just making it to the T-38. My condolences still go out to their families.

Great discussion and analysis, Juan, as usual. I grad from CBM in class 91-02 and spent a total of 17 years as a UPT/SUPT instructor throughout my active and reserve career. Six years in the T-38. (Flew C-141s, too.) The fact is, outside of the training environment, the Air Force does not do wing landings anymore (they barely do fingertip formation - except to look good up initial during RTB). I hate changes to our beloved syllabus as much as you do, especially for political reasons, but changes are probably warranted. (BTW, last I knew, the T-38 approach speed with flaps is 155+gas. And I think it’s even faster now because the ‘C model is heavier.) Keep up the good work.

I agree, pilot training is one of the most advanced skills in the world. To be the best you have to train with the best. Offering these classes and training at a lower level of excellence than previously required, is a problem. It shows to me just how hardcore men where, such as yourself and my father. You men just did it. If that's what was required, you just did it. Thank you for your insight and video. And sorry about your pilot friend and student. Truly a loss for family and friends and the academy.

Such a monumental waste. Two vastly talented men striving for excellence. Then, in a moment, all of that experience, dedication, talent and promise just wiped away. The incident demonstrates clearly that when someone you meet answers that he/she is a U.S.A.F. pilot, that person deserves recognition and respect. This country needs them, and is blessed when someone answers the call. And much poorer when something like this happens.

Expertly explained as usual. Thanks Juan.

These T-38's have my favorite color scheme/livery.

Terrible loss of life, very sad! When you said “dumbing down” the training, it struck a cord with me. Taking out a very difficult part of the training doesn’t make sense. In an emergency some fighter pilot somewhere, sometime, may be required to make a formation landing. Without the training, it could be fatal. I think top military people are scared of making a wrong decision, and the public reaction to that decision. The firing of the Captain of the Theodore Roosevelt and the followup demonstrates that well. Thanks for the excellent video, Juan.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this unfortunate incident.

Sad outcome. I do appreciate your videos and the effort you make to get clear thoughts out.

was am air traffic controller supervisor, the hardest job I ever had was certification of new controllers.... you had to let them get into trouble to see if they could First see that they screwed up and Secondly figure out to correct the mess. I was usually about six or seven steps ahead of them so could clean up an error, but it was unnerving. After a while I just accepted if they do not kill some one then it was a success

Very interesting video, thanks for the great explanation of what happened in that incident. Also, you gave me a better understanding of the AF training program.

Juan,I am a 320 driver but I really enjoyed the video and all the effort you put to make it easy and plain.

Thank you for the great coverage, as always. 🌿

This formation landing requirement being dropped reminds me of when they dropped the requirement to demonstrate spin recovery for the private pilot ticket. Not such a good idea I think. I don't know when they did that but for my commercial I had to have a logbook endorsement re spin recovery. Short story: I remember when I took the commercial test the FAA guy said he wanted to do some spins. The a/c was a Beech Sierra B24R. Spins are prohibited. Recovery is listed in the emergency procedures section. Trick question by the examiner. I refused him and explained why.

"Flight instruction for teenagers is fundamentally different than for adults. With adults, the instructor needs to always wear sunglasses so the student can't see where the instructor is looking. The instructor also needs to sweat only on the right side of the face and not twitch when trying to avoid grabbing the flight controls." F Abrams, Chief Flight Instructor, San Jose International, Ca. 1990.

So, excited to see this! My father was one of the greatest USAF Flight Instructors F-18 Instructors!! Col. Richard Hoover!! Later he flew C-130s! Love you Dad!

Great job of dissecting a very tragic chain of events. My prayers go out to their loved ones. Retired C-130 FE here really enjoy your analysis and your cool name😎 Fly Safe!

U.S.A.F.-If you can't meet the standards...Lower them.... Sorry to hear about the change. Awesome review...Thank you.

I agree. Some states are considering "dumbing down" tests for new drivers...because the tests are viewed as difficult by new drivers....and some parents agree. I think it's a mistake. Train hard, fight easy...

Although we’re talking more Top Gun style, I Love the Jurassic park props in the background! always enjoy hearing your own insights and experiences as they relate to the stories you cover.

Great analysis. I really appreciate your videos!

I must agree with Juan. It does sound somewhat absurd that we are afraid someone might get hurt in fighter pilot training. Best in the world fighter pilot training.. don't change it.

Juan, thank you for your dedication and accuracy. It is such a tragedy to lose two skilled pilots.

I was in 73-04 Webb AFB, TX. Loved the T38. Point and go!

I know nothing about flying but I grew up near Reese and loved the whine of the T-37 but the T-38 always got my attention. I wondered as a boy how a plane with so little wing could fly. I probably watch your channel because I loved watching those T-38s.

I'm more concerned about the 2 T-Rex's over Juan's right shoulder, WEARING FACE MASKS!!!!

Juan, I tend to agree with you about the dumbing down of these programs. However, in the name of safety, I don't see the necessity of formation landings. What I would rather see is on late final a spacing increase of 25-50 yards, or even less, to allow the pilot a little leeway. My one concern would be wingtip vortices on landing. By the way, I got to work on T-38 simulators when is doing my training in the Air Force, is an analog Flight Simulator technician. I would have loved to have gotten some real T-38 time. Also worked on the Tweets in that same training program. Wish I had the money to find a surplus Tweet now. 😄😁❤️

Hey Juan I was a Willie Guy 84-87. Loved that base.

I graduated USAF pilot training 68-04 at Moody. The class that entered to replace our class contained George W Bush. I went on to spend a year in Vietnam as a FAC in the 0-2. The best assignment in the Air Force, in the worst possible plane. I returned to IP duties at Reese AFB in the T-37. My dad was an IP in the tweet when it was first used in the late 50’s. My younger brother Frank was also an IP at Vance in the T-38, 7 years later. The two best trainers ever, the T-37 and T-38. I am now a retired psychiatrist. . . go figure. Your video brought back a flood of memories. Thank you. 🇺🇸 MAGA

Juan, you mentioned that that you were at Williams AFB in the late 80's. I was a crew chief in the 425 TFTS from 78 to 80. I saw several aircraft accidents while I was there.

Was that HUD photo from the accident aircraft. 125 knots seems slow with gear out in landing config. What is the VMCA or equivalent for the T38? Good video Blanco. My condolences to the families, a terrible tragedy.

Tragic losses. So sad. Thanks for making sense of what happened. Take care. ❤️👍

Juan I just learned you and me were in the Air Force at the same time. I was at Dyess AFB in the late 80s working around the B-1 .

I saw the C.W "Mover" breakdown on this accident. Very interested in your POV. Obviously a sad deal...

first great channel love the content

Juan best by far at laying it all out completely.

Juan a great job on explaining this unfortunate situation that lead to this accident.