Tail Stock Centered - Final Video on the subject for me.

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DEEZ Workshop

DEEZ Workshop

5 ай бұрын

Tail Stock Centered - Final Video on the subject for me.
Deez Final Tail Stock Video - My tail stock is centered as good as I can get it.
Amateur video work and amateur hobby machinist. Videos of me working on various projects in the workshop and around the home. Work using my Vevor MX400 Mini Lathe and Precision Matthews PM-25MV Benchtop Milling Machine.

Пікірлер: 20
@ronr344
@ronr344 5 ай бұрын
I should come visit you some weekend so we can go over what you’re learning cuz it would take too much typing. I think some of the frustration is mixing and matching “runout” with “squareness”. Also the head runout and dead stop runout which I didn’t see you check. I’m also wondering is the “inner diameter” of the rod you’re using dead center of the “outer diameter” because that may be why you’re seeing runout near your tail. Like I said there are so many variables I can’t write a book in the comments to cover them all. But hey…..its fun!!!
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 5 ай бұрын
I do need a good day to spend with someone experienced who knows all the proper techniques, I am a visual learner and learn by doing, I know there is a lot of content out there and information to read through but I can really understand the value of an apprenticeship in a working shop now. With all these great comments I am understanding the mistakes I have made in this last video as well. AND your'e right, This is all fun, even the frustrating parts I am really enjoying it. Thansk for the helpful comments.
@robertfontaine3650
@robertfontaine3650 5 ай бұрын
Better is better. Rather than thinking of it as chasing 0. Treat it as what have I learned and did I find a repeatable set up that is better. There is a lot to learn l.
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 5 ай бұрын
Thanks, Its still not right. I will be tackling this again but not creating any further content. at least until I have it 100% down. Your suggestion of finding a repeatable setup makes sense.
@stephaniea9722
@stephaniea9722 5 ай бұрын
Hey Deez, some good comments here. I'll see if I can add to it. You're actually measuring a few things at once here, which is probably where most of your headaches are coming from. You have spindle runout, which is measured primarily at the chuck. The spindle is the only point where runout is created, and can be solved by centering the workpiece in the chuck. Notice I say workpiece, and not the chuck itself. That's because there is runout in the bearings and the faceplate, and there is no guarantee that the outer diameter of the chuck is perfectly concentric with the inner diameter of your collet. That's why you have wiggle room in the chuck mounting screws. So what you want to do is put a ground rod in your collet, and adjust the chuck until runout on that rod is as small as possible. This process isn't all that different from how you center a piece in a 4 jaw chuck. Next is parallelism from the headstock and the ways. Honestly most people don't mess with this because it often requires scraping the bottom of the headstock. This error manifests itself if you try to turn a short piece and you get a taper. Next is what you're seeing as runout on the tailstock here, is actually runout on when you drilled your center hole on the end. If that hole isn't perfectly centered on your stock when you drilled it, it'll manifest on the runout on the endstock. This measurement doesn't do anything but tell you that you're not drilling dead center. It's also impossible to correct by moving the tailstock in any way, because you can't change the concentricity of that hole without re-drilling it. If you have a dial test indicator (highly recommended) you could measure the concentricity of that hole when it's closest to the chuck (to a small degree because the hole is so small). Next is the bar is simply too thin for this distance to get any meaningful measurements past a couple of inches from the chuck. It'll bend over it's own weight and flex. What you probably need to do, start to finish, is tram and level the lathe, and then center the tailstock. You want to center it without the chuck, since it introduces error. Get a dead center that fits in the taper of the headstock, and align it to the dead center on the tailstock. BlondiHacks has a great video on all of this. Following her videos, you'll need to cut a test piece to measure taper which will tell you about your tailstock alignment. I know you can get better than 4 thou. I wish you all the best and hope this helps.
@stephaniea9722
@stephaniea9722 5 ай бұрын
To add, the horizontal alignment difference you're seeing with the tailstock at the end of the bed, is most likely from bed twist, which requires levelling and shimming of the bed. This is typically apparent when you have the alignment perfect closest to the headstock, but it's off when it's furthest. The vertical alignment is typically not adjustable, but can be scraped or shimmed as necessary. But don't do any scraping or shimming until you get everything else aligned and levelled. BlondiHacks Lathe alignment video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fpZ9qqaqvMu0Z30.htmlfeature=shared A bit on concentricity and how it relates to runout. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g9WWptl6rrHcY58.htmlfeature=shared
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 5 ай бұрын
I have read through your comments several times now. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all this out. Allthough I do not plan on making another video about centering the tailstock I will continue to try to improve it. I am also saving yoru comment for reference. :-) Thank you for the great tips and procedures to tram this thing in. I really appreciate it.
@stephaniea9722
@stephaniea9722 5 ай бұрын
@@deezworkshop I don't expect another video, though adding a comment to this one explaining any resolution you find would be helpful for others. I went and rewatched BlondiHacks video, as well as about half a dozen other videos. There are some good ones, and some not so good ones out there. I'll tell you the consensus of what I've found. Levelling the ways is always going to be the first step. You need a precision level, which are a bit pricey. However some people have used some bars and a plumb bob to measure. After leveling, you need to check your headstock alignment. This is where you need a thick bar (over 1 inch diameter and at least 4 to 5 inches long). You make straight cuts on the bar (no tailstock) and measure the diameter near the chuck and at the far end to get taper. That taper is how the headstock is parallel to the ways. Correcting it is a tricky part. On bigger lathes, you would adjust the angle of the headstock. Unfortunately on these smaller lathes, it's not possible because the headstock is aligned by the ways. In that case you would need to scrape the ways to remove material to rotate it. BlondiHacks instead shims the ways, which technically introduces twist back into them. This can cause some issues with tailstock alignment throughout it's range, but I don't know how much. The solution is to just measure taper on any part where you're using the tailstock, and adjusting it for the position that you're using it. (You should be checking for taper on any precision part you're making anyways). After aligning the headstock, you align the tailstock by turning between centers. This is done by removing the chuck, inserting a center between the tailstock and headstock, and making a test piece much like the one for the headstock, except driving it with a lathe dog. You measure the end near the headstock and tailstock to get the taper. Then you adjust the horizontal screws until you remove the taper and the ends measure the same diameter. Now that piece you just turned, with the matching diameters, becomes a very useful piece, as now you can use it to check the alignment of the tailstock anytime by putting the centers on the front and back and indicating it from the saddle and adjusting the tailstock until the measurements match. By turning a piece between centers, you virtually remove all runout. See that BlondiHacks video on concentricity. It can also help to bolt the lathe to a solid base, like steel plate, cement pavers, or something that won't flex or move (wood moves a lot with humidity). It can help you take cleaner cuts, and will make your measurements more repeatable (especially when levelling, you are just as likely to twist the wood instead of the lathe bed). Even a 4000 pound lathe is about as flexible as a wet noodle, so they need a solid base to get any accuracy.
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 5 ай бұрын
You have provided so much great information and that I will tackle this again using your tips and guidance. I will use others as well. I may post a second "Final" video :-) on the topic showing my experience but only if I get it nailed down right. Thanks for all the tips and suggestions.
@voodoochild1954
@voodoochild1954 5 ай бұрын
I’m not a real machinist so all these comments are great. But just out of curiosity did you check that printer rod with a micrometer? It would seem to me that a couple of thousands difference end to end would be fine for a printer. But for a measurement standard it would not be. All in all you’re wasting your time worrying about this. Your projects show you got all the precision you need for a home hobbyist. 👍🏻
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 5 ай бұрын
I didnt check that rod, I should have. I assumed which was my mistake, It could be off. I think the center hold in the end wasnt centered either. You are right, Trying to center and achieve "0" with an unknown part is a mistake. I know for my hobby work it isnt such a big deal, but part of this hobby is understanding and learning proper techniques. I failed in all my tailstock videos including this one. I am having a blast and have made some pretty cool things even with the issues I have. Thanks for sticking with me as I work through projects and continue to learn these machines.
@SuperJaXXas
@SuperJaXXas 5 ай бұрын
Not a pro here but isn't that a set-tru chuck? I have a Shar's ER40 set-tru and I've had no issues adjusting it to negligible run-out. Something maybe amiss there. Also I've only ever adjusted the tail stock using a precision rod running between centers, not really sure what you are accomplishing with your method. ymmv.....
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 5 ай бұрын
I am still going about this all wrong, my Chuck does have a recess to fit true but its not true, I have about .002 runout at the chuck, I have a lot of great information from you and other commentors. I will tackle this again someday.
@leslierhorer1412
@leslierhorer1412 4 ай бұрын
Yeah, you are still approaching this the wrong way. First of all, you should be able to start with a center mounted in your headstock with much less than 1/1000th runout. Secondly, the actual runout at the tail stock should also be well under 1/1000th. You will never fix your runout, however, (if it actually even needs it) until your headstock and your tailstock are both parallel to your bed ways. At that point, your runout should be well under 1/1000th. If it isn't, then your problem isn't alignment, it is the bearings, and they will need to be replaced. On the tailstock, this is easy: just buy a quality live center. Replacing the headstock bearings is another matter. Note that runout in the chuck, or even in the lathe spindle does not translate to runout in the machined part. If the headstock bearings are good and are properly seated, the runout in the chuck can be 8", and the stock will still run true to within tenths. That is precisely how one turns an eccentric in the lathe with a chuck with independent jaws (usually a 4 jaw chuck). I probably don't live near you, but we could certainly do a Zoom or Facebook video call. Your tailstock is still way off, and it could easily be made much better. You are still trying to do the wrong things to check its alignment and to fix it.
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 4 ай бұрын
Thank you again. I apprciate the Zoom or FB call offer. Perhaps one day We can work that out. I think I have bearing issues. likey due to my usage and knurling tool with the side forces I needed to knurl some projects. Also I dont think it was spot on from day one but vevor is what it is. I do want to inspect the bearings and look at replacing them someday but thats a project for another time. I will continue to work with this tailstock but won't be sharing anything until I have it nailed down.
@mikecrowley3102
@mikecrowley3102 5 ай бұрын
I can see you are getting hacked off with those issue so I'll be brief. First you are mixing up run out of the chuck with parallelism of the chuck to the ways . They are not the same thing .Run out of the chuck might cause a drilled hole to be oversize whereas lack of parallelism would cause a drilled hole to run off centre (Which was your initial issue). Second , going from memory , I seem to recall that you made a small shin to lift one end of your tailstock in order to bring the height of its centre to match your workpiece in your chuck ? Doing that would have lost the parallelism of you tail stock to the ways. If you want to raise the height of your tailstock you have to make a shin that runs the full length of the base of your tailstock so you raise the tailstock without tipping it. You would then have to set your side to side position to bring you back to centre.
@mikecrowley3102
@mikecrowley3102 5 ай бұрын
The quickest, accurate way to achieve concentricty is to remove the chuck, place a dead centre in your spindle , next place a dead centre in your tail stock, next , place a straight length of bar with pre drilled centres, between your two dead centres and using a test gauge mounted on your carriage run up and down the shaft of your test piece. I This assumes that you already checked your quill travel for parallel to the ways. Tbh. I think you need somebody to visit your shop to show you the correct procedure and explain the concepts involved. All the best , Mike.
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 5 ай бұрын
Thank you for for this information and advice. You are absolutely right, I really need a visit from someone who knows how to perform some of these techniques, It is clear I have never worked with these machines in a professional workshop or worked with experts who can teach me. I am lucky to have such a great community that helps with commenting and guiding me in the right direction, I will tackle this again but off camera, If I ever do another video it wont be until I have mastered this topic and can add create something valuable to others out there. Thansk for your advice and tips, Will be using these as I work with this again.
@mikecrowley3102
@mikecrowley3102 5 ай бұрын
Hi Deez, hope you can find an experienced machinist local to you who can spend an hour or two demonstrating and explaining the necessary techniques and concepts . An hour of good tuition might save months of frustration and mixed results struggling on your own. All the best , Mike
@deezworkshop
@deezworkshop 5 ай бұрын
Me too, I do know a couple business owners that have a machine shop. Might be able to trade some work for an hour or 2 of training in the machine shop. Cheers.
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