Hi folks, this video is reaching a much wider audience than I expected, so just to clarify a few points: -A few people seem to think this video is a general statement about Sydney trains - it isn't. The Tangaras are a specific train type built in the 80s/90s. They run all services on T4 and a handful on T1 & T9. If you're not on the T4, you're probably not on a Tangara. The issues with windows & seats were corrected on suburban trains that came after these. -A few people also asking 'didn't Melbourne have one of these?' The answer is: sort of. We trialed a one-off double decker in Melbourne between 1992 and 2002, called the 4D. It was a Tangara look-a-like, but actually had lots of differences. You can find out a bit about it in my Melbourne suburban train history video here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p7mpepueteC7oZc.html

The muffled announcements, the lack of displays, and the badly frosted windows make it difficult to know where you're at.

100% correct when you say we hate the fixed seats, it’s not even about wanting to face forward, it’s about having the option

They’re probably the most unique looking trains in Sydney which is probably why they made it into Mariokart. I think that makes them pretty cool.

Regardless of actual performance, they’re the iconic Sydney train - look at the mariokart course for Sydney that includes them!

Those reversible seats are such a great feature, you didn’t mention it but many people choose to sit backwards so they can talk with their mates

I live on the T4 and use these basically every day and yeah Ive got some issues: 1. The seats arent super comfortable 2. They seem to get neglected with cleaning, tend to be dirtier and more graffitied 3. No flippy seats (unless you get G set) 4. AC is either full tilt or basically non functional, and idk whats up with the filtration but a late thursday-saturday night tangara departing central has the most putrid smell imaginable. 5. Windows are too high for you to rest your arm on I just can never find a comfortable way to sit for more than like, 15 minutes on a tangara. The occasional OSCar you get running intercity and stopping at sutherland is the only reprive you get on the T4. Love being able to rest my arm (and coffee) on the low, flat, wide windowsill

In the late 1990s and the 2000s, we liked Tangaras only because they were better than the S-sets - also known as the Sweat-Sets because they were non-air-conditioned. And yes, we definitely hated the fixed seats on the Tangaras, but in summer, we wanted the AC!

i live on the t4 line and i have to use them every day. and they can be quite hot and uncomfortable. and i get sick from sitting backwards. But i still love them because i grew up with them

Some Tangara's have revamped Audio PA systems, although many still make the train guard sound underwater. Some of the travelling-between carriage doors don't work, and you'll get used to the frosted window. Lovely train.

When they replaced the red rattlers, CityRail was bombarded with complaints. At least 10,000 letters - I know, because I was contracted in to answer most of them! From memory, the most hated feature was the aircon, and a design change to the outlets was required to prevent people in the window seats getting frostbite on long trips.

I miss the red rattlers, travelling along with the doors open.

My favourite trains are the blue mountains line trains they might be a bit older but the air conditioning is fantastic and they’re very comfortable

Its funny because the former G-set tangaras which are now just T-sets have retained their movable seats. That particular variety of tangara is still my favorite train! Waratahs get more hate these days mostly because theyre just so dam common. Seriously, 9/10 trains on any line that isnt the T4 (and to a lesser extent T1 & T9) lines are waratahs. I always get excited to catch a tangara or k-set amongst the sea of waratahs. I miss the old days on the T2 line where it was like a surprise, id catch a train from Petersham and I could get anything from an S-set to a C-set, a tangara to a millennium. I miss those days!

I never had a problem with the Tangara sets - but I like facing backwards (I'll frequently be reading while facing the wrong way and making fellow passengers who can't handle it turn green.

You forgot the insanely strong aircon that gives you frostbite in summer if you're sitting next to a window.

I love the flat face. It looks so modern

sydney people are in for a real horror story when they see the central line trains in london (think of a tangara but way smaller and with no air conditioning)

I like how they look, and Mario Kart agrees.

Very cool video! That seat thing is amazing!

I love the flipping seats, as we use old Sydney trains in Newcastle a fair bit. They’re brilliant when you’re travelling with friends and you’re not in the quiet carriage. I actually love travelling backwards myself, but it’s nice to have the choice.

Tangara my fav because I remeber when they replaces the red rattler and more comfier than an oscar

I grew up in Sydney in the 60s and 70s. Let me assure you traveling with lots of sweaty people stuffed into the hot Red Rattlers were nowhere as enjoyable a ride in summer as the air conditioned Tangaras, although on the older ones before power operated doors, you could hang out the side and enjoy the slipstream! Quite happy to glide over Sydney on the upper deck of a Tangara, although you're right about the curved upper windows.

The frosting is because of that sun you mentioned; unequal heating makes for hazing if any moisture gets in.

I mean, there was the G set, which was one of the other Tangara sets that were built in the 80s where they actually had flippable seating. The class was converted to the Ts (or the other Tangara set) during the early 2010s, but their seats still remain. Personally, i use them and they're not too bad, I reckon the waratahs are more flack then the Tangaras. If they're properly rebuilt alongside the V set, both sets would be more widely loved and used, especially after the NIF mess

I like the curved windows when it’s raining. Kinda feels relaxing watching rain.

I find the Tangaras to be the most comfortable Sydney train (mainly because I find them to have more leg room, even the ones with flip seats), though the Intercity V Sets are still easily my favourite (easily the most comfortable) and I'm sad to see them go soon

as a sydney sider, i like the aesthetic and the foggy windows on the upper part can be avoided by going downstairs. however as someone who travels with friends in groups up to 4, not being able to flip the seat is *really* annoying and i also find that the tangarras are often less clean than some of the other models

Sure the seats are a draw back but that's about it. I love riding on them and how you can look up while on the upper deck

I remember the red rattlers! 1960 s trains second carriage from front of train and 2nd carriage from back were the non smoking carriages!😸❤️

At least the seats are comfortable compared to the intercity H sets (the back breakers)

I remember the first time I got one in 1990.. so futuristic compared to red rattlers

I think all trains are pretty good in Sydney. There’s also the metro and light rail (tram like) too. Definitely am a fan of the seat direction switching.

if you sit backward you'll need to guess if it's your stop since the announcement is only once in a while

In the UK, our train seats are fixed, but there are a mix of both forward facing and rear facing seats.

we had a Tangara developed in Melbourne it ran on the lilydale line as a test bed for it to be introduced to the Melbourne fleet but it fizzled out as it was said to take to long for the passengers to get on and off of the train.

I love how high the seat backs are - perfect for a commuter’s nap

I love their design more than the waratahs, would love if they made a updated version with the aesthetic maintained.

I like Tangaras. I sit in the door area so I care little about whether the seats turn around or not.

Inter city Kiama to central used to be tangara. Those moved to inner city duty I believe. When they were Kiama to central, they did have tall seat that moved with direction of travel.

Melburnian who grew up in Sydney. The other thing about the Tangara is the seats were ridiculously hard. They've got better with the Waratah, Millennium and refurbed Ts , but when introduced they were not as comfy as the old K and C sets, or the super comfy V sets. Kinda like the Siemens and XTrap V the Comengs.

I saw a madlad on the train the other day - as soon as the train pulled into chatswood he turned his Waratah seat to face backwards, wasted a good row of seats

The windows are triple glazed with the middle section being polycarbonate which has misted over the years. There was talk some years ago about removing the middle panes but cost, complexity and concerns over safety (the windows are a component part of the body strength) put that idea to bed.

thats crazy, i love the tangara train, its my favorite and i always beg my family to put me on that train whenever i get the chance 😅

My dislike was the uncomfortable seats on the G-sets when I would travel on them from Wollongong to Central. I always preferred to travel on a V-set with its more comfortable seats.

I was infuriated by the mention of the impending retirement of Tangaras this decade - these were the trains that "recently" replaced all the Red Rattlers that I had to put up with as a schoolkid, with no air-conditioning, doors that didn't even close, and most of the time nowhere to sit because they were missing an upstairs. But while the Tangaras slowly came out of the factory, we were told how proud to be of the Red Rattlers that had given 60 years of service. And yet the Tangaras have barely reached half as old (30 years) so why are we talking about retiring them?! They've got the air-conditioning everyone was moaning about older trains missing, and the view from the top windows is MORE than any other train.

They mainly run on the T4 line. I don’t mind them but yes I hate sitting backwards. Honestly the biggest problem is that you can’t hear the guard announcements and they don’t have display screens

I rarely board Tangaras. And when I do, I hate it when I have to seat backwards. But, hearing a Tangara arrive/leave a platform will never get old.

The a/c doesn't work well when the train isn't moving. Got stuck between stations in peak hour in summer and it was horrible. Absolutely stifling. I think we were minutes from fights starting when we finally started moving again. It made me miss the red rattlers where you could open the windows.

Tangara’s are cool, i always like it when i get to ride one instead of a waratah on the north shore… and the ex-G sets (former intercity tangos) have reversible seating anyway

Would you make a Sydney rolling stock video like the one you made for Melbourne?

In 1988 I used to take a brand new Tangara to school in the morning and a 1920s Red Rattler home in the afternoon, they had no AC or heat and doors that were always open, vibrated like crazy and made horrible grinding sounds...I'll take the Tangara any day. (And I prefer backwards facing seats) 🇦🇺

As a Sydney resident, I have to agree about the reversible seats. Major minus for the Tangaras.

Tangaras are just fine. I remember the old “red rattlers” that serviced the Sydney-Illawarra line and others for decades. Wooden framed windows and sliding doors on compartments. Yep, Tangaras are just fine.

Still hard to beat the venerable V Sets 😍

First of all as you mentioned the seats are fixed, the windows are always foggy, but some other inconveniences include: a lack of display screens, extremely muffled announcements (especially with accents it can be impossible to hear the announcement), but also on some sections of track the carriages bounce around quite a lot, causing injury to people walking in between carriages and damage it the carriages themselves as well as the track. It is also quite annoying that there isn't a destination screen at the front of the train and they are very loud.

For me it's a combination of the things you mentioned and the muffled announcements and lack of station displays. Stresses me right out when I'm travelling a line I'm not 100% familiar with, and also is annoying even on my own line because my commute is pretty long and I generally like to zone out and read or watch something while I travel. On a Waratah that's easy to do, the announcements are hard to miss, but on the Tangara trains I have to keep one nervous eye outside so I don't miss my stop. First world problems, I know, but those are my main reasons for preferring the Waratahs.

I don't know why but I love the faint electrical humming inside them, strangely comforting for me.

I am a British ex-pat who moved to Sydney CBD, then the Shire, before giving up altogether & moving to the Southern Highlands. The idea of adjustable seats is totally alien to me, being a Pom. The first time I saw a tradie hope on the train and casually flip round a bench seat to face the other direction, I actually went over and asked what he had done. Some sort of black magic juju.

T sets aren’t the best as the windows fog up and there is no destination display. And they can’t reverse the seats ( Besides Ex G sets ).

As a 29 year old autistic who has a sheer knack for Sydney’s train fleet, I always adore the Tangara due to being designed in Japan and manufactured in Newcastle, NSW, my home town of course!

As someone who grew up in Newcastle and took fairly regular trips to Sydney (although usually not on Tangaras because they don't run that well on intercity lines), I absolutely love the Tangaras. They are my favourite Sydney train set ever and I am not at all biased by the fact that my granddad helped to build them at United Goninan Broadmeadow :P

The other aspect about them is they are the most uncomfortable for tall people because the backs of the seats are so hard and cramped. They also have less foot room for the window side passenger as the ledge for the window is raised.

I only ever get warratah trains, they’re the only ones that go for where I’m usually going, however, on the off chance I’m going somewhere else and I see a tangara, I always just wait until the next warratah

I like it especially the seats... they comfy and high unlike the normal ones.

The windows on the T set used to be a lot clearer from the inside when they were new

They have aged really well. Would have aged better if they didn't paint the fronts yellow. I first rode them in 1989 and felt like a quantum leap. Very smooth running and quite brisk.

Okay, I'm from Perth, where there aren't reversible seats, and I loooove sitting backwards, especially the middle where the two sides split, because it feels almost private and quiet there.

I’ve never ridden one, but I dearly love the iconic retrofuturistic aesthetic you pointed out. There’s a reason the Tangara even features in MarioKart :D

I remember the deisel electric train we used get from Central to Kiama as a child , before the overhead lines were put in . That and the early single story red rattlers were the best . Loved the ornate luggage racks and lighting

I would welcome a modern remake of the iconic tangara.

Double storey! Dam thats awesome. Wish Melbourne had them

It's safe for the sit backwards because when the if the train stops suddenly get flung back into the seat if you sit facing you get flung out

For the record, I'm one of those who likes to sit facing the other way. I find it more relaxing that objects get smaller than have them rushing towards me.

I rarely go on the trains, me and my mum use the light rail 90% of the time when we go into town, but of course they do fill up with people extremely quickly and you’re usually stuck standing for a few stops untill more and more people get off

Those trains are like a wonderful cool room on a super hot day, thats my memory of those trains

I love to sit on the upper deck but never noticed the curved windows 🤔

Does anyone know when these are being replaced? Whilst not horrible, they're not the best.

As someone from the south coast I won’t take any more M-set slander. They are genuinely awesome.

On my line i usually get a Waratah set. I like the quieter motors, quieter and less announcements & comfier high-backed chairs of any Tangara. Also, the roof is generally higher on the upper and lower decks. The ex-G sets are the best as the seats are reversible & the most comfortable.

I just hate the trains that make it hard to be accessible for disabled people and prams like the ones with a whole bunch of poles in the way of the doorways, also the ones with no digital displays because the announcements are always muffled

The being able to sit forward is good. Pretty unusual i would think

When are the new trains coming out. I want to go on that

This short willed a tangera train into my existence. I don’t live in NSW and the day after I saw this, my friend rang me, asked to take a spontaneous road trip to Sydney for a marketplace pickup. GUESS WHO WE DROVE ALONG NEXT TO! I seemed so informed!

I remember working for Sigma Air conditioning back in the day all we did was build and maintain all the Tangara's Air-con units

The thing about those curved upper windows was that they were designed to let more light into the carriage so people could see to read their newspaper when all the lightbulbs had blown and not been replaced (as was a common experience in the red rattlers). The foggy look is possibly due to the argon gas between the panes going off or reacting to something in the glass panels. Also, the service doesn't make much effort to clean the windows (internal panels or external panels), but for taller folk who get a window seat, standing up can be hazardous to the head as that slanted edge does come down fairly low. Overall, I have never minded the aesthetic of them, but I'm a big fan of the old trains that were common before the red rattlers. They had embroidered window blinds, elegant luggage racks and often enclosed cabins that are quite similar to some of the old english ones that you see in British film productions from the 1950s. I miss the olden days, less tech induced stress and the world wasn't so crowded

Sitting backwards is the best way to commute on the train. I always looked to sit backwards when commuting to San Francisco

i love the tangaras ! im usually on the CCN line so i only really use the h and v sets , and im very excited for the new mariyungs ! they have fixed seating so im interested to see hoe that pans out !

Sydney people don't like to sit backwards in the train? Really? My heart is bleeding... :D

As an ex Sydney sider and current Melbournite I miss swivel chairs so much. On Melbourne trains you’re left hugging your possessions and playing footse with the person opposite.

I think when the NSW government says they'll build new tangaras, they're more talking about how the tangaras were the last sydney trains to be built AND maintained in Australia, by Australian companies (as far as I know). I do personally hope they keep the sloped front design, but have the interiors be more like the waratah. I would also love for the engine to have the same iconic sound, but I know that's extremely unlikely. They could use the same motor as the millennium/metro trains though, which sounds similarly cool and is much more modern.

I saw one of the new Mariyung trains as I was driving today. What an exciting subject 😂 but the new train did get my attention enough that I looked it up.

Can you do qlds tilt trains...... Do u think Sydney would benefit from magnetised tilt trains??

I grew up catching the old red rattlers! Then the silver Double Deckers came along and I loved them. My favourite spot is a teen was upstairs of course. The only train I get nowadays is the country train into central and then I have to walk to the other end of the concourse to get the train to the international airport.

I live on the t4 line so I almost always use them and have no problems. When an Illawarra train rolls in with the flipping seats I hate it because someone will always flip the seats to take up two whole seats that could fit 6 people

As someone who has lived in Sydney my whole life and been catching these types of trains almost everyday since I was 13, they’re ok. Not the best, not the worst. Although, when they heat up in summer, it can get bad.

I love those seats that change direction. Trains in Paris have them too. I can't stand sitting backwards. Wish our Melbourne trains had them too

Say what you want about Tangaras. But the chopper motor sounds when they leave are almost as beautiful as the Metro departure sounds.

T8 user here. I’ve waited half an hour for a Tangara train. Probably my favourite train type on the system.

I actually quite like the Tangara but youre right about the flip seats - given theyre just an internal fitting im surprised they werent mass replaced at some point with the flip seats that ended up in the Waratahs. But the curved windows and the flat sloped fronts are quite fun IMHO.