This was a fundamentally unhelpful conversation, and I'm a person of color on the side of the in-person panel. The fact of the matter is that Jon made a big deal out of having an all white panel for this conversation but then didn't use the white panel in any kind of constructive way. Andrew has a single big question: what systems are white supremacist? What they should have said was that while many policies existed in the past, many of them persist until now and even the ones from the past have had long lasting, generational effects. Additionally, the power structures in place apply otherwise equal laws in unequal ways. Some examples they might have brought up: -Marijuana laws are applied 4 times as much against black people as white people, despite similar usage rates. -Our history textbooks are extremely white centered, even though Native American people lived in these lands all this time. -Gerrymandering so that black voices are disempowered by either carving up or isolating black neighborhoods. -Generational trauma left over from slavery: kids today are raised by people whose parents raised them based on what they learned growing up. In many cases, for families that have been here for a couple hundred years, that was literally slavery. -The knock-on effects of segregation: integration happened most swiftly in the south, but in the north schools remain even more segregated to this day. Predominantly black schools get less funding than predominantly white schools, not because the law says they should but because people decide to do that. Why do they do so? I'd say racism but without knowing them personally, lets be generous and say we don't know. It's still unfair, and it still leads to worse educational outcomes for kids of color. These are some of the structural problems that are missed if we look for flaws in the wording of laws. No one on the panel said anything like any of that, and some of them even just shut down Andrew instead of arguing with him. If people of color are not going to have a seat at the table to explain our perspectives, that means our white advocates have to work at least twice as hard to actually have the conversation, otherwise our voices are just silenced.

As a black man watching this conversation I think that it's important to remember that before we can start solving the problems of racism, we first have to normalize talking about it. Not arguing, not having heated debates, but talking. Just being able to freely discuss the topic at all with every side present is a feat, and until we can do that, there won't be any understanding. It will just be a continual pendulum swing between sides. So, while most will say this was unproductive, I think it achieved bringing us one step closer to what we actually need. It's a shame that the US didn't create a commission for racism like South Africa did after the fall of apartheid. Because they understood that step 1 was creating an environment where racism could be discussed openly.

andrew sullivan came from a town about 3 miles from where i grew up in England and is four years older than me. i recognize EXACTLY his attitudes because i grew up surrounded by them. I was one of only two non white kids in my elementary school and when i hear him speak i feel transported back to my childhood. What is the difference between me and him? he's white and i'm not. his life has allowed him to view racism as something external to him, something you can blame others for. I spent my entire youth being bullied by white people and being called every racial slur in the book. I understand what white supremacy is because i have been treated as alien ALL MY LIFE. it makes me so angry to listen to him. he OOZES white privilege....

As a Black Woman I applaud you for having this conversation. If you don't see a problem, how can you then fix the problem?

Her: We have to have the conversations with white people everyday. Also her: this is why i don’t talk to white men.

The good thing about this discussion is that it brings everyone together in agreement that this discussion was unproductive.

"What are these systems??!" "Housing-" "That's ONE!" "GI Bill-" "That's ONE!" "Redlining neighborhoods-" "That's ONE!" I think the dude needs to go through primary math class again.

The expression on Sullivan's face right out the gate shows you he knows what's going to happen.

I'm a person of colour and I thought this was so cringe. Expressing white guilt doesnt solve anything. Talk about policies instead

03:34 Lisa Bond: "If we don't talk about it (to white people about racism) then we are never going to see movement" Also Lisa Bond: "We will not talk to white men about it"

The problem with self reflection is if one does it right you find the real essence of yourself either you’re going to change or you’re going to except who you are and that is why majority of us do not want to self reflect because a lot of the time to change will not be beneficial to us in that moment in time

"I'm not responsible for the people that came before me" is the typical response of people that benefit from a system that actively discriminates against a group or groups of people so they can avoid having to change a system that benefits them.

"We've got to talk about it" -> "I don't engage in conversation with white men" Is she on drugs?

“Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” I am huge fan of Jon but this was a really unproductive conversation.

Lisa calling Andrew a racist...well, that's one way to shut down a dialogue, which she is trying to promote.

The words "we don't talk about this enough" and "I'm shutting you down" surely don't belong in the same sentence? How can you talk about it if you shut down someone who disagrees with you? Rightly or wrongly

You cannot fix something that people don't see as a problem.

This is a great example of how not to have a productive conversation about racism.

I'm halfway in and I'm exasperated at how little they tried to engage honestly with each other. It's a damn shame. If they admitted some level of vulnerability and some fallibility to their world views, they may have been able to learn something together. But everyone is so rigid and defensive. Lisa and Jon seem to want to score points on Andrew when instead they could point out how historical racism and racist laws, as well as individual prejudice towards people of different races, have led to differential outcomes where the majority has distinct advantages. We desperately need to put more effort and money towards better schooling and medical care, need to invest in black people to prove to them they are not second-class citizens and give them more hopeful futures. Jon made a good point that "some white people think they have to be taken from for this to happen" and that narrative needs to be changed. It is not a zero sum game. Goodwill and building people up is the only way out of this. When you think the game is already rigged against you, it's going to be so hard to engage in positive ways. We need to reassure disadvantaged white people that they will get better services too if we want this to be politically viable in any short-term way, or they'll be easily captured by right wing propaganda and there will be no opportunity for positive change. I think the issue a lot of people have is when many different overlapping problems are oversimplified by throwing out terms like institutional racism and white supremacy. I understand a lot of this comes from an impatience with hearing white people minimize the issues and say we can't do anything to help and blaming minorities, which is profoundly hurtful and unhelpful. But I also think it gets people on the defensive, and when Lisa said "this is why I don't talk to white men about this," she most definitely lost a lot of people who would have been open to listen beforehand. Everyone wants to feel they have a spot at the table and I think most people want to be good too. Weaponizing guilt instead of appealing to our better natures is a cheap trick to jockey for temporary power over someone, not a way to meaningfully change minds and hearts. Especially when that guilt is levied in a generational and resentful way. Many people will reject everything you say after they detect this manipulation, because they know you are not treating them with respect as a thinking person. We should not be blaming people for their ignorance. Instead we should engage them in an open dialogue, gently help them find contradictions in their worldview, and let them come to their own conclusions through careful questioning. It's the only way I've ever changed someone's mind, or had my own changed. We've known this for thousands of years but our media almost never shows people this is possible or worth doing, and it's fracturing our society. I prefer Jon's solo interviews. Though in them he sometimes attempts to speak more to the audience than the interviewee, essentially trying to score points, he usually only starts doing that once the interviewee has proven themselves dishonest, or they're obviously a talking head for big business or something and it is a public service to expose their contradictions clearly. Thank you for reading, if anyone does. Sorry I couldn't make it more brief.

Definitely need a number of hours devoted to this topic. Was not long enough to really dive deep into the issues and discussing practical individual, communal, and governmental solutions that should be considered.

As an admirer of Jon Stewart, this has to be the worst I've ever seen him run a debate. He lost his credibility when he lost his neutrality. Which is pretty most at the outset. He first lets a very sanctimonious white woman blame white males for bearing the brunt of the racism facing blacks, for over four hundred years no less, not wanting to talk to another white male (oh no!) - and then crucifies Sullivan for having the audacity to say that the lack of a structured Black family life factors into this (of course it does). Be that as it may, Sullivan could have done himself a favour by saying that Barack Obama said the very same thing in 2008.

Gotta do 2 things to improve this…… 1: Shut that audience up 2: Make sure all your guests are physically present It’s a very nuanced/important/fascinating conversation to have, but the audience and the physical barrier undermine it.

This is Good Trouble stuff 🙌🏾☝🏾🥰keep it coming ‼️‼️‼️

For someone who made a career mocking the "talking heads" that we see on Fox, MSNBC, CNN, and the rest, he sure did a great job here of emulating their model. Only let the people you agree with talk, belittle and willfully misunderstand those who oppose you, and act as if your point of view is somehow "victorious" after every remark you make. I loved the Daily Show with Stewart, and think he's extremely intelligent. But this whole thing was embarrassing and not constructive or useful. He did not comport himself as someone trying to have and shepherd a constructive conversation should.

Lisa: "We have to hold them accountable, but we also have to hold them with grace and compassion" Said the same woman who insulted a man by calling him a racist and "shut him out" from the conversation by completely ignoring him. Is this entire segment a parody?

I grew up in a black community and I can tell you there we’re single parent families everywhere and somehow I made it out of there and made a good life but not many in my old neighborhood didn’t, many of them are in jail now.

“Give me just ONE system…okay, not that system, give me another one. Okay, no, not that system either. No, that third one either. Okay, so besides all those systems, give one system. See? You can’t.”

I’m honestly so relieved that people are not agreeing with this bullshit

What do you think we need to do about this? Lisa - “I think we as white people need to have discussions about this” …didn’t you just shut down conversation with Andrew?

It's not a discussion when 3 of 4 are singing the same song and doesn't want to here another opinion. The topic is important and needs an open talk with qualified people not a populists.

I’m impressed with the conversation and I appreciate the panel for having it.

We should make a drinking game around how frequently race activists say, “we need to have conversations about race” in the middle of a conversation about race.

"this is what happens when we don't have the discussion" next sentence "I'm going to shut you down now".... these are jokers. Way to keep perpetuating this crap Jon

The “Mmm hm” from the black woman in the audience at 5:13 😂😂😂

Poor Andrew, given literally 8 examples of systemic racism and then still says “give me one example”.

Generalizing and assigning value to an entire race is an incredibly ironic way of fighting racism.

They need to do this without pandering. This guy has a point of view that can be deconstructed but not if he’s treated like an ignorant villain.

What a shameful episode for Jon Stewart. Lost respect for him. Andrew makes valid points backed up by data and statistics well documented by people like Thomas Sowell. Gets ganged up on by the panel because he doesn't have a PHD-level command of the facts for a talk he was invited to at the last minute. Obviously there is more work to be done but considering our racial diversity, the U.S. is currently one of the least racist countries in the history of the world. Slavery was the rule not the exception for most of history (e.g. condoned by Christianity and Islam!), Britain then America were the first in history to abolish it. Let's not forget that while we're flogging ourselves for how awful we are as a country. And this self-congratulatory lady: "we don't even engage with white men..." Assuming something negative about a group of people based on their gender and skin color. Totally not racist or sexist.

This literally could have been a Babylon Bee satire skit.

"We don't talk about race..." No. It's all we talk about, and we're terrible at it. We are, however, quite skilled in scoring cheap rhetorical points.

Andrew is the basic "I'm white and I've never experienced institutionalised racism, therefore institutionalised racism doesn't exist" guy.

This was uncomfortable, but that's good! Change and progress need to happen, we can't just ignore it!!

I would love to hear more of what Chip has to say.

14:17 this is the face of a man who is realizing that he was brought here as a prop. Something to be screamed at and lectured to. Nothing he said was listened to.

Lisa Bond, very elegant speaker, I'm impressed with how she handles herself. I believe her to be very authentic. More people should be listening to her. She's a pioneer in closing the gap between the ignorant people and the other people who want to solve this issue, but don't know where to start. I applaud her. She gets it, she's a winner.

How is that guy Andrew the " chieff editor" of ANYTHING!? lmao!

The backlash to this insane rhetoric is really heartwarming. It feels like we're finally waking up.

Name one system Names a system Yeah. That's bad, but name another Names another symptom But why can't you name a system?

How's that third season coming along? Yeah...

These people hate you and want to destroy your family.

When you know better, you do better. Talking is great👍🏾

I really appreciate the attempt here, Jon. But this discussion just wasn’t productive. This would be much better as a very long form talk (over an hour), without a live studio audience. There was a weird performative aspect to this discussion where managing the energy of the crowd seemed to override any genuine attempt to get to the root of why Andrew held these beliefs and to deconstruct them.

Lisa: hold them accountable, but with grace and passion Also Lisa: call a guest racist, interrupt him, and say that’s why we don’t engage white men

I'm white and I refuse to be self-loathing and apologize for it. Sorry, not sorry.

i appreciate this conversation....i think more of this will be good for all ppl

Important history: families were SOLD APART. Huge impact

As soon as I saw who was on the panel, I knew exactly how this conversation was going to go. Shame on Andrew for acknowledging redlining in one breath and then dismissing systemic racism in the next. Shame on Lisa for calling for a conversation immediately after dismissing white men's contribution to that conversation.

This might sound backwards, but I want to applaud Andrew for going on that program and having the guts to speak his mind, and to present a viewpoint so that others can dissect it. I'm sure he was very frustrated afterwards for being made into a whipping boy, but by giving us a chance to see someone try (to very marginal success) to defend that stance gives us a better opportunity not only to understand it but also to realize how to address it.

This lady’s sassy comebacks don’t really help with difficult conversations like this. If there’s a stupid point raised we should be able to easily respond to it instead of doing a response for claps and cheers.

I think this illustrates how unproductive these conversations can be.

I thought it was perfect. More often than not, this is how a conversation will go. The key to its success is the moderator and their ability to diagnose and steer the conversation. Noting that they cannot "control" the conversation once it has begun, but "steer" it in a direction. Jon did a wonderful job and as someone who has moderated panel discussions on transgender experiences and HIV awareness I commend him.

Thank you for finally exposing Andrew Sullivan. I’ve been saying this about him for years and the fact that some JUST figured this out IS the problem. Thanks Jon Stewart.

Jon always talks about how bad Tucker Carlson is for American media, and yet here he is doing his best Tucker Carlson impression. I wouldn't be surprised if he walked out wearing a bowtie on the next episode of "The Problem With Jon Carlson". You owe your fans an apology for this one, Jon. Be better.

Growing up I experience a ton of racism from all sides. However some of my best friends who stuck their necks out and defended me were white. There is no way I could blame all white people for something because that feels like it would be disrespectful to all the people who never judged me by my skin color.

The world needs more talks like this, if he would have kept talking, the circular logic would have taken them all to the same conclusion. Systemic oppression leads to racial disparity.

John let the man talk !

This conversation felt like a caricature of how reactionaries describe activism: performative rather than substantive. These issues are extremely important and I think they were poorly represented by these particular voices. This devolved into a real dumpster fire.

This time, the problem was Jon Stewart and his panel

I have watched this numerous times. Thank you!!!

Appreciate the attempt to have the conversation. Hopefully it can bring about change at some point

Should be titled "How not to have a conversation" This was terrible, I want my 20mins back.

Certainly most people will disagree with Andrew and for good reason, but neither John nor Lisa did any favors to the conversation. If John and co. are correct in their arguments, then they do a disservice to those arguments by not properly discerning them to Andrew. Instead, they mock and throw jokes for audience kicks, all the while saying "wow, how do we have this conversation?" Did they not realize that they were single handedly increasing the temperature of the conversation with their antics?

Hey Jon, here's a question that l think is worth asking your panels: How has racism affected you in your life? Give a story. Follow up question: Based on your experiences, would you freely switch places with any other so-called "race"? Why or why not? Therein lies your answer to white supremacist systems and structures.

John Stewart started off with a Toni Morrison quote that it was "time for white people to talk". I feel like Toni Morrison would have been disappointed by a conversation that seemed to revolve around the need for white people to be aware of their privilege but short on solutions to improve the plight of black people.

The woman takes virtue signaling to a whole new level.

"Name me one system" Jon goes on to name one "Okay but that's just one"

John does a really great job of pinning down Andrew's argument at the end there. It's easy for a guy like him to talk in circles without coming to terms with the weight of what he's really saying.

he’s not wrong in saying (compared to many parts of the world) that America is tolerant and diverse…. that doesn’t mean that there isn’t more work to be done and that doesn’t mean we don’t still have problems.

79,662 downvotes and counting, Leibowitz. Good times.

As a LIFE LONG liberal/progressive who believes in labor unions, equality for all and separation of church and state - I have to say to John Stewart and all other woke warriors, YOU ARE LOSING ME. This is complete nonsense.

"That is one of the reasons we don't even engage with white men" I just lost it LOL

Very entertaining conversation.

That guy who is on the screen pretty much represents 80 percent of the United States ALL THE TIME! If it does not affect you it doesn’t matter.. that’s the attitude.

I kind of checked out of this video as soon as the lady started calling herself racist. She seems like a nice person and honestly she reminds me of my mom a little bit. But there are legitimate racists out there who do terrible things on account of hating someone's skin color or ethnicity. I think that labeling yourself racist when you actually aren't just cheapens the term and reeks of virtue signalling. I firmly believe that we can help those communities who need help without bringing ourselves down.

Gotta say Lisa Bond embodies everything wrong with how discussions are conducted these days

This man is GOOD. "I'm gonna take Toni Morrison's advice on this one"..🧡

They don't believe it...because it doesn't happen to them...

“What systems?” “You know, how it used to be 60 years ago?” “But what about now?” “But 100 years ago it was bad.”

It’s hard to watch Lisa actually say the words “I’m shutting you down” after all the conversations Jon has had with others advocating for engagement. The live audience really did not help, but I do hope that the team makes an effort to have more convos like this. Rotate the panelists, give time for rebuttals and keep the conversations happening. Any person who genuinely wants to make progress must know these talks can’t just happen once.

Great video!!!

I am not American and I have no gain or loss in this debate but the amount of black kids that die in gang violence is insane to me.

"We need to have conversations" says the lady who doesn't speak to men.

The tv format of twenty minute segments for such conversations never helps. You need a lot of time to deconstruct why people think the way they do, with grace!

John Stewart!!! I love you Sir!!

“I don’t like whi pepo!” Also: “Imma live next door to you.”

This is hilarious. The USA has giving my family a lot. We immigrated from Jamaica under British rule. The USA has blessed us.

Learning about red lining was my entry point into understanding systemic racism. Once I learned about that, it set off a domino of continued education and understanding of just how contrived our world is. This is the point where I ask fellow white people this: if I can understand this, why can’t you?

I Love John M, he is the most fair and trustworthy person alive.

I like how every time they gave what's his name a different example of systemic racism his response was "but Jon, that's only one thing!" "But Jon, that's only one thing!" "But Jon, that's only one thing!"

I can’t believe this is the same man who stood up for the 9/11 Fire Fighters.