Bro did the editor add the "currently talking" border to the paint setup? That's some commitment dude.

This type of content with big streamers that are also doing some pro level stuff especially within m+ has been the most fun thing to watch. More of this please :D

Here we are, 2 cats talking about the future of m+, just what i was looking for.

It is actually insane how fantastic growls take on everything was. This man has a soul read on blizzard and the community lol

There is major misunderstanding about Mythic level Crafted gear. To craft such an item YOU (raider, not crafter) need to get special drop from raid, which is BoP. YOU make Crafting Order which have to be handled by skilled CRAFTER - you attach this BoP material you got from raid to the Order (and maybe other, standard materials). CRAFTER makes and order - imagne it's packed item - and only person who can receive this package is YOU, the person who ordered it and attached necessary BoP material. You receive the Order back, unpack it and only then get actual BoP item. There is no place for Pay-To-Win in the process - unless you count in the Fee for crafter. To get an Crafter Mythic Item, you need to get special material from raid yourself.

I always liked the ideas that tyrannical could just give bosses get extra mechanics vs the health and damage scaling

This is such a good discussion. Man, I love m+ and tanking but it's so hard to dring myself to pug these days, especially on forty.. You get flopped over in a pack which needed 3 interrupts and a stop or two and you get called a bad tank by a healer because people don't even know that those mechanics matter/exist. It's so damn maddening.

One thing I would love for blizzard to reconsider is frontal melee hits that's impossible to see in large pulls. Deadly thrust or whatever you call it (Halls of Atonement) is a perfect example.

About Professions, Growl has a very valid point. In Shadowlands we already funneled all the mats to a few people so they could powerlevel the Legendary base items to Rank4 asap. It is quite obvious that the same will happen in Dragonflight with the different branches of professions. If the crafted gear is good then you can expect people to powerlevel professions and quality and players will assume it is mandatory content for them to do M+ or Raids (and people will complain that they have to spend silly amounts of Gold for those items off the AH). In regards to Pay2Win it is also a very valid point. Currently the Race to World First guilds spend silly amounts of Gold on BoE items. Now imagine if you can get your raiders "BoP" items as well that previously was only available for that profession. Like how we had crafted gear in BfA where you needed Breaths of Bwomsandi or you needed to upgrade the Void Crucible with items from the raid or what have you. You needed to get that high ilvl gear ready quickly to parse good and help the team progress. If any Tailor now could craft those Mythic ilvl Leggings for all the Mages, Warlocks and Priests in the Guild, then that is not mandatory? And if Tailors (or LW and BS) can make 1-2 items, Jewelcrafting can make another 1-2 items, Enchanter can make 1-2 items, Alchemists can make that Transmute trinket, etc.. That's maybe half your gear slots that you can buy high ilvl gear for as long as you buy WoW-tokens to get the gold to fund it. Or Blizz will need to timegate it so that you need a certain amount of rare materials such as Blood of Sargeras, Expulsom or raiddrops such as the Breath of Bwomsandi, or even the Progenitor Essentia that we have now in Zereth Mortis. Something to make it harder to craft the good stuff. I agree that it sounds great to hear them talk about it, but we all know what the threads on Reddit and the forums will be like.. Full of people complaining about Pay2Win, screaming that they have to pay 20k gold on the AH for a pair of boots just because it is BiS stats, etc..

My friend and I just completed the Jailer's Gauntlet layer 8 yesterday. Torghast has been some of the most fun I've ever had in this game and layer 8 was super difficult.

The live mic border is the single most subtle editing job, that also enhanced the entirety of content, that I’ve ever seen.

Man, that was a really great round table. I hope you guys do this on the regular.

the damage meter thing stuck out badly in classic. you had people who would literally not do mechanics, but it was okay because they had a high parse and this included healers. we had a shaman who didn't dispel poison whatsoever, but he was top healing so he got conveniently ignored. it was so toxic. i'll never be in a guild like that ever again.

Awesome conversation around M+ really kept me interested during the entire video great job!! Go Growl! Lol

When it comes to the crafting questions. If you look at the WoD system of crafted epics, you can imagine how this system could work. In WoD you could only use 3 of any combination of crafted items. These items were basically close to normal raid quality but there was an upgrade system where you could take the same item and upgrade it as new raid tiers came out. They were adequate to get you started, especially early in the raid tier, but as time went on you got better gear from harder raid tiers. The nice thing was that crafting was relevant for a while, the bad thing was that because the garrison puked crafting materials out at you there was a much lower cost and profit for the crafters so many people did not bother. If you were to combine a WoD style crafting system, with Vanilla specializations, with the crafters mark system from SL, and sprinkle in some other good ideas we could have an awesome crafting experience for both crafters and customers.

m+ could have a system like the pact of punishment in hades - choose which affixes you want (including time limit) and scale rewards based on what you pick, that way you can tailor the difficulty by mechanics or time or mob hp/damage - you can still have timed leaderboards and mdi or whatever, but opens up so much more interesting gameplay options for everyone

The drum nerf is a massive loss that is highly understated. You need a shaman, mage, or hunter (w/ pet). If you do high keys you have a required composition based on the affix, and one of those roles has to have lust. This limiting factor can strangle some classes. Drums shouldn't have this nerf, make it close to lust or time warp.

I agree completely that the shorter sub-25 minute dungeons are objectively more fun to play.

I found myself both agreeing and disagreeing with each of the four fellows at one point or another, and I suspect that applies to most of the audience. It's almost as if there's no single, destined path of progress forward for this game and subject -- which points to its richness and potential. Loved the conversation, lads. Thanks for taking the time to gather.

Mythic plus is less fun when you can’t aoe down 10 enemies in a pull. The whole dungeon doesn’t need to be that way but there should be 2-3 pulls in a dungeon where you pull 10-15 enemies and stun then and aoe them down.

"let me just karate chop my keyboard as hard as I can" 🤣 ded! Growl with the quote of the day.

With professions and making high level gear, the sense I've gotten from the interviews is it's almost like item tokens with an extra step of needing another player to complete the item instead of a vendor. Also with the work orders system having the requester setting a commission for the order means prices will likely start low and work up, unlike now where the posters set insanely high prices to start and competitors drive the price down trying to make a sale.

iliked this kinda podcast talking video ! brining people that know theyr thing and talk about it!! thanks max dorki jpc and yumytv :)

M+ Violet Hold. I can feel the excitement :D

Yummy said "showing my age" talking about RTS while I'm messing around on StarCraft. I've never been this insulted before

Cool, just finished the Ion vid 👌

I wonder how they will implement the charged up ability that evokers get to enemy mobs for m+ or raiding.

Thnank you Max for making this happen

Have some of the mobs be the same in each dungeon, so you don't have to learn a lot of them all over again. Then you can increase the amount of dungeons and reduce the amount of learning.

I'm amazed at how different my opinion of good vs bad M+ dungeons are from everyone else.

I just wanna take a moment to appreciate the thumbnail.

Add mythic+ specific talents(cant be used in RAID like pvp talents) that are as powerful as sets and make every spec equally powerful in m+ and that way they wont have to get tuned cause its also "broken" in raiding. If ya get my point

When I pug as a priest, I typically use a damage meter to give an idea of who I need to PI

I’m regards to crafting mythic raid level gear I believe based on ions wording that in order to do that you would need a BOP reagent that drops from the mythic bosses so you would put up a work order for that mythic piece with your BOP reagent and someone would use it to make your mythic gear but just because the South Park guy farms every day for 3 months they can’t sell mythic raid gear on the AH unless they themselves are doing mythic raids that’s how I understood it

They should do a torghast-level progression scheme for a voted dungeon of the previous season where teams can op-in for trash/boss encounters (like the DoS Ardenweald quarter > dealer) and if you complete the scenario it can scale up another level. They could require players to have completed within one lvl +/- of the new-record level to sign up as a group. Then they could reward a customizable or themed armor piece for defeating the entire set of 3 encounters instead of these random transmog items I keep getting from my Zerith Morris chests on my alts over and over again.

I'd like to see a weekly rotation where the key is actually just random and it could be any M+ dungeon that has ever been. Where your key would look like +14 Random. For like a weekly affix and actually call it round the world.

I have a feeling that 9.1 didn't even happen. They talked about prideful, encrypted, but not about tormented.

This is what they should do: Base your M+ score on your top 8 dungeons only (and give an indicator of what level you have completed a dungeon when you apply to a key), watch the numbers of ones that people do and tune them based on that. Its a trial by fire for dungeons where the community decides with their actions which ones suck/which ones are easy (cause obv they will do the easiest ones for M+ score)/ which ones are fun. This way it will push Blizzard to balance the dungeons close enough to where there isnt always a cut and dry answer to which dungeons are best, and you can do all the ones you want and stay away from the ones you dont. You could have the 12 dungeons Yumy was talking about and it wouldn't hugely effect "the grind" to get your IO maxxed and wouldnt punish trying other dungeons either.

One of the things many chatters are forgetting about here at roughly 24-26m ish, when they're talking about interrupts is this How many times have you been in a 15 where you've died in spires, because you weren't topped off, and a castigator/inquis kick went through on fort week, and it clapped you from 55% or even worse, when your tank is getting blasted because they're new to tanking/bad/etc and you ARE topped off, but your healer literally can't/won't/doesn't know to take a global to dispel you, and you just bleed out from 80%+ one missed kick killing your party isn't just a +30 thing. it affects just as many "casual" players in 15s as well Nobody stopping houndmaster cast in Fort halls, tank getting bit by a dog for 40% of his hp - Castigator/Inquis packs in spires - the number of times i've literally watched a melee player get bonked to death by the mender in the pull before 2nd boss spires because someone with magic purge didn't purge his weapon buff, and then you just get dark lashed one time, and the mender bonks me (the tank) and you (the melee dps) get aoe'd by the weapon buff on a 20+ key is entirely too high. It's not just 30+keys, its just that when it happens there, it's a literal oneshot, its also when you're in a 15-20 and you're like "the fuck did i just die to" and its "34k Infuse weapon"

Good stuff

I think tyrannical should spawn a raid boss from the current tier when your fighting the last boss in the dungeon. They could use 1 of their raid mechanics, it would give the group a cleave option, give new people a taste of raiding and the new mechanics. They could drop their loot table aswell.

9:55 yumy just discovered a representative democracy, congrats

Listen to the community = listen to their arguments (not do a poll) My argument would be: always have a variety of Dungeons in terms of style (mass pull heavy (think Freehold), banger boss heavy (think Upper Karazhan), 5head pathing heavy (think Arcway), short but banger (think Scarlett Halls), long and epic (think Halls of Valor),...) Also I love Growls take on designing M+ for different audiences. Maybe mobs could skip some of their nastier abilities below +10 or +20. This would also mean that on like +12 you can just wing it hard on a large trash pull without learning 5 mechanics per pack.

Sanguine depths is shit because blizzard can't do closed quarters well, same for Waynor manor, you spend most of the dungeon fighting the camera. If they could make some pillars see through and the camera collision not work on them it would be much better dungeons.

Loved the vid, sadly getting an ad every 10 minutes was just for some reason was breaking my YT (making the ad stuck for 30s+ till it can be skipped) so kinda ruined the flow of the content, but it was an amazing video either way

I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "I feel like" used as much as it was in this video. 🤣

1:22:04 100% agree with Growl on this. Making them "specialized" makes them p2w. I was incredibly frustrated in Shadowlands after leveling my leatherworking thinking I would be able to craft my own legendaries for my Monk, DH, and Druid; then to find that there was a massive vendor set gold investment required to reach the level necessary to craft meaningful legendaries. Once again, completing characters completely self sufficiently was reserved for players who either never stop farming or who are perfectly fine with dropping a couple hundred bucks on tokens.

I don't mind kiting, especially when it's dependent on party coordination to some degree. I just feel like the way tank threat works, then, should be adjusted slightly so it isn't so dependent on tank damage and thereby class choice and gear. The mitigation providable by kiting should neither be free nor insanely costly in terms of threat margin. I don't mind Tyrannical/Fortified per se, since it varies the points of attention in a given dungeon, but I feel like it shouldn't swing the needle SO far, as it just makes either trash or the bosses feel like pushovers by comparison.

1:31:48 Love how this aged. They do make the game for shareholders not players. Mostly because the shareholders will only stick around if they make money, and the players will play whatever terrible product they throw out.

I my opinion they should make crafting professions mainly focused on alt gearing. This would be a win-win situation. They would make crafting professions more relevant and they would vastly improve the alt experience of the game.

I picture crafters fulfilling the same role that valor vendors did back in the day. Imagine a Cata-like system where bosses gave a guaranteed amount of valor each kill, and you spent 1.5 weeks-ish worth of valor from boss kills on a raid quality item. Replace valor with crafting materials and vendors with an actual player who takes a work order, and I think that is pretty close to what they are trying to achieve. I am guessing that the only way you can get mythic or heroic gear crafted is by killing mythic/heroic bosses to get the appropriate soulbound material (which Ion said would be transferable through work orders). It would work similarly for M+ where +15 drops the best material compared to +10, which is in turn better than +5 etc. This would also be a great way for them to reward you as a consolation prize in the vault. Every time you don't get to pick an item from the vault, you can choose extra crafting mats that you can spend on the exact item you want crafted to help get your gearing curve back on track. The system has a lot of potential if leveraged properly.

Was later thinking about the way to lighten up m+. So my idea was. Making affixes random, kind of a lottery. You got a keystone to a dungeon but you’re unaware of affixes yet. So when you enter dungeon and about to start a run, when you put your key the affixes will show up only then and there you decide whether you’re willing to run this dungeon with these affixes or not

I think they said some of these higher end crafted items would require bop items dropped from that level of content right? So the relationship of a crafting focused player with a raid pusher would be required and super dope. Just have to see how they tune drop rates of those items.

I wonder if besides the seasonal affix, they'd get rid of all of them. And instead they are treated like the masks of the horrific visions in bfa 8.3, where you can turn on additional affixes by choice(with perhaps a score multiplier).

The part about trash mobs having too many mechanics to do, that's why they added so many target caps going into Shadowlands. They wanted to make it so that there was no point pulling more than 1 pack at a time, and then they could base the amount of interrupts/mechanics required around every pull being exactly 1 pack. Obviously that didn't work out, but they went into the expansion not expecting people to pull 3 packs at once.

Their removing damage meter take was so bad and it makes sense it came from a healer. You're talking about a game mode where you're racing against a timer and the way you race against that timer is by depleting health bars. The faster you deplete health bars the better you/your class is in this game mode. There is a case to be made about removing meters and whether or not it would be good for the game, but it's strange that this even came up in a discussion about M+. At a certain point M+ is just a math problem where dps = time or deplete and removing the ability to even see that vitally important information is ridiculous.

Dorki is King - liked the talk a lot

@Javipriest in Max's chat at 1:20:46..I'm on tech, the only leggos going for 20k are damn near cloth bracers..they still selling for 90k regular in multiple other slots and type of armor.

Dream comp of 8 old dungeons for M+: - Violet Hold - Violet Hold remake (I would be happy with only those two, but let's keep going:) - Hillsbrad Foothills - Black Morass - Azjol Nerub - Sunken Temple - Halls of Stone - Ragefire Chasm + bring back arcane noodle

One, I gotta agree with yumy that the pool should go back to being 10 baseline and sometimes 12. That would also give them more space to keep some dungeons that are particularly good. Two, if they do both the rotation and the seasonal affix rotation it maybe too much variety? I liked encrypted and awakened so much because they did change the dungeon routes a bit. Three, I don't know what to do with tyrannical/fortified. They've done a really good job of balancing tyrannical this xpac so that it's not just a dead week. I think JPCs suggestion of capping tyrannical scaling is actually really good.

I agree with the take that the professions will be bloated a lot. The devs seem to have a static sense of "x acheivement = y effort." The process of crafting will likely be a mythic raid's amount of effort if it can offer mythic gear. For something as "easy" as crafting (no chance of death, needing very specific builds, etc) then they'll pad the time of process to make up for difficulty of process. So the idea that a solid month or more to make a single mythic piece is very plausible.

On my opinion one way you could get around those class specific utility like Soothe on rogue for raging week, is like to extend the amount of classes / speccs who provide those things. The 3 Major Group skills you want to have is Bloodlust, Soothe and Battle rez. They did it in the past too. Giving mage Bloodlust first and then Hunter, Battle rez for warlock came in later too. Nowadays we got more classes and speccs and blizzard stopped doing this, so instead of having 3 possibilities of each, why not make it 4? Giv Warrior "Gladiator Shout" As Bloodlust, make Mind soothe of Priest remove raging if you are in combat with it and Monks get "Divine Palm" (Kharazim hots) as a battle rez option.

What they need to do to keep ot fresh is take 4 new doungens and 4 old ones one a keystone that affects your wow io but give you a second key that has the other 4 dungeons on it so you can still get that gear for content. Each week just have two keys you don't have to push unless you need a piece of gear

Discussion at 19:43 is such an important topic. It's one of the main reasons M+ is borderline unplayable without weakauras/dbm/little wigs. Every mob has a deadly mechanic that needs to be stopped, dodged or dispelled. Most frontals oneshot melees above +15 on fortified and they aren't even telegraphed to stand out when you're fighting 8 mobs. Even if they update their base UI it doesn't really solve the problem. Dungeon trash have way too many mechanics and it needs to be dialed back. Double Goliath pack in Spires is a perfect example. Unless you have a shaman in the group that can solo interrupt goliaths, you need 4 players to coordinate first/second interrupts on top of dealing with crazy stacking damage from the serpents. It's ridiculous. I don't want to go back to braindead aoe everything with no mechanics, but they need to mix in more "trivial" mobs that just melee the tank.

make kicks work like dispels, so thy still use a gcd but wont go on cd if they dont interrupt.

The reason they don’t do more frequent balance passes is because it feels bad to get better gear every week and then feel weaker or stays the same because of week after week nerfs. You can say that just stick to buffs, but that also compound nerfs the content and will eventually result in outliers as people get more gear.

came for the mountains, stayed for the cats

I think weekly challenge dungeons would be better offering a dungeon every week maybe even at a certain level required to complete a quest example like lets say you need to do black rook hold on a 13 or higher for the quest this week and the next week you get a quest for shadowmoon burial grounds 8 and if you do that you get a seperate key for black rook hold and shadowmoon burial you can raise or lower and it only stays as that key so you can farm it that week for your loot with still the other 8-12 dungeons that come out with Dragonflight taking the idea of weekly rift challenges from diablo

Thanks Fronk

I hope Blizz watch this! Love m+ but theres so much room for improvement

I think there also needs to be less key levels up to 15. There doesn't need to be such fine grained scaling up to that point. If you can do a +2, you can do a +3 and it makes finding keys more difficult for the average person on top of all the other issues. Possibly squashing 1-15 to 1-10.

yes lest go

34:10 thats EXACTLY what i think. High tyrannical (20+, which is not THAT high, but for most of us it is). in full AoE spec it takes like 5 minutes for some bosses. (Spires endboss) Thats just.. literally longer than some raidbosses xD

yumi 'i'll shut up now' > continues talking. big brain

They can just craft items with BOP components that you let them use, which is what they said in interviews. You can farm items in raids and submit a comission fee for someone to craft it for you, so you need to be doing the raid and getting the mats for the blacksmith to craft the item for you, and if he crafts it with the items HE got in the raid, he can't give it to anyone.

Growl poggers

ah, the honorable mention of cata dungeons

what jpc said was actually genius ppl would not mind changing legendarys and adapting if you would not spend hours upon hours in thorgast and spending hard earned money if you could just change your legendary power like you change talents it would not matter if they messed around with the power in terms of weekly buffs and nerfs and i personally didnt mind to have legendarys in dragonflight ontop of the talents because it allows for realy mediocre talents to be realy good when you combine them with another mediocre legendary just like we had with fire mage sunkings blessing and pyroclasm that just synergised realy well

The whole profession talk is already off because Ion said that you'd have to do mythic raid stuff to be able to make mythic items. It's not like anyone can just do professions all day and then make Mythic gear in time. They would have to complete the mythic stuff, it's fine. It's not going to be as bad as some of them make it out to be. What I'm curious about is like, how will this affect enchanting for an example? Will people run around with better enchants?..

the maximum talk show

Tyrannical and Fortified stop scaling at 15, and then timer on dungeon goes down by like 20 seconds per key level after that. i think thatd be fun

This is a great idea. I enjoyed listening to this even that I haven't played on a long time. If you aim to do more content like this, please spend 5 minutsa before the pod and even out voice volumes though, you are 2-3 times as loud as the others.

In Wrath, there used to be mythic ilvl items from professions, with a rep that was exclusive of clearing the raid and with a resource that dropped from bosses and tradable in the auction. Reinterpreting this system to feel more rewarding and fitting the current end game content with the changes announced to the professions could definetly be a big banger. Modern wow has never had truly relevant professions imho, and I understand the lack of faith from that look, but if they are changing so many stuff to mix the old era with an interesting touch like they just seem to be willing to do with talents, then it can be something great. I'm still being somehow scheptical, since I don't think anything is gonna be perfect from scratch, specially with massively changing stuff like professions and talent systems, and I understand they want to try their view on live, but I expect to see the blizzard I've seen on 9.1.5 and now from at the very last the 10.0.5, thus acting sooner to solve arousing problems with system changes. P.S. I love how borrowed power turns your character up, a big fan of it, just make that like in 9.2. at minimum. Easy alt getting into it and almost no grind aside from doing end game content.

You guys kept saying the legion mega dungeon & I couldn’t remember what it was but it was in fact the return to karazhan. 5:47 But, there are dungeons even in Shadowlands where I feel like RP slows down the runs. The one that comes to mind is waiting for the shield to go down so you can move on after the 2nd boss in Mists of Tirna Scithe. 18:32 I absolutely hate skips. I’ve hated them since Everbloom in WoD. That kinda stuff just feels more like an exploit to me. 1:37:05 I felt way more comfortable progressing through heroic visions than I have attempting mage tower in both legion & now.

If there anyway old swg players out there, I wonder if wow is wanting to approach their crafting for this xpac similar to how swg was in the early days? Where people just played the game to be armor Smith etc.

I'm getting rather fed up with M+ on my MM Hunter right now, it's an execution issue, it's players simply approaching the content wrong, and that's a triple threat issue; I'm burnt and need to ease off of it, people doing whatever they want in keys instead of "the right way", and Blizzard not incentivizing correct play. I could go on ad nauseum about that, but that's not the point I wanted to make, just why I hit this particular video. I'm on the part talking about tyrannical/fortified. First off, in keys, I'm pretty regularly hitting Wild Spirits at the front 15 seconds of the fight, within that window, on pull tends to be terrible on a lot of bosses because that's not actually where your window opens, and MM HAS to stand there and bomb, so you dodge the shit, wait for adds, THEN you bomb. It's generally about 15 seconds in. Usually there is an Urh involved, and I'm usually hitting WS right at the middle-ish of execute phase, so ~10%. Bosses in 15-18 range take 3-4 minutes, tops. There are many that go down in a 2 minute window. So there's some perception vs. reality stuff going on here. Second, Tyrannical/Fortified serves a very important purpose, and that's that different classes/specs get to shine during different weeks when you're in the middle of the pack, when you're the average player. Some weeks, the affixes are just like "and FUCK YOU in particular", and that feels horrible. And there's certainly issues with iteration, because at the end of the day, not being able to push your buttons, for whatever reason, not being allowed to do your big dam, for whatever reason, feels horrible. It is not fun. The fights ARE busy af rn, and that is an issue. On the other hand, they do have dials to tweak which specs and classes and even general styles get hamstrung each week. They don't need to hotfix class fixes, they can just target it via encounter design. If Survival is hot shit right now, here's some affix mechanics to make life hard on them, and you dial that up to whatever is appropriate. This week is hard for Survival, they get a break next week, extra big dam because the affixes aren't relevant to them, but warlocks get shifucked next week.They need to work on THAT, not overall punishing the group. Affixes should make it harder on one aspect of the DPS package, a wrinkle to group comp that you have to play around or accept. Tyrannical and Fortified do that. If you like playing an AoE spec and you're not gonna switch to ST because it's optimal for that week, that should be fine, but by the same token, the person who mains a ST spec should do better in that week. You're just the trashmaster and they're handling the bosses. It puts the emphasis somewhere different from week to week. If anything, I think the issue is that it's not a daily rotation, a week is juuuuuuuust long enough to create a meta where you might just say fuckit and not participate that week. Tyrannical/Fortified, specifically, allow for a greater range in class design, because each week you're essentially getting a damage buff or penalty, however you want to look at it, based on how your class/spec puts damage on target. Most of this directly translates over to tanking and healing styles as well, some weeks this tank is good and some weeks that healer is bad. In order for anyone to be at the top of the list, someone has to be at the bottom, and tyr/fort allows some metatexual shift from week to week without constant balance patches. In fact, for M+, thinking of tyr/fort AS balance hotfixes that cycle every week, is probably exactly the right way to think about it. AoE is doing too much, across the board, this week we nerfed AoE damage and buffed ST, and vice versa. Edit: Forgot to add, and I shouldn't leave this only implied, if there's a problem in M+, they can, theoretically, fix it with affixes, instead of balance changes that bleed over into raid and PvP balance. That's a HUGE positive.

21:00 K, my problem here is: If blizz tune around necrotic, for example, non-necrotic weeks would just be a free-ride. Kitting might sucks, but it exists for a reason, in my dumb not-mythic raider opinion lol

Also I really liked kings rest and dos :DDDD

I think their vision is a great idea for mythic plus seasons going forward but I would want a season to be considerably shorter. Currently a season lasts 6-8 months. So my plan would be to split a raid tier into two seasons. Each season lasts 3-4 months. First half of a tier is the basic new raid, RTWF and all that. Second half should be the new raid and another raid added into the new season with rotating affixes. The first half of the mythic plus season would be 4 new, 4 old and second half would be again 4 new ones and 4 old ones. Maybe mix and match them. Use community polls to decide which old dungeons should be reworked and tuned for new seasons probably 2 seasons ahead.

The main issue is that most m+ player don't play in stable team and shadowland went too far into the interrupted adds. I understand that for those higher stable team, it is bothering but more interesting. But if you'r not , it's a nightmare that really heavily downgrade your chance of pushing some keys. And I don't even talk about PUGS here..

dude why is my mic so bad

i just think they should make every dungeon into M+ and have 100's of keys to run JK on that idk what blizz should do i wish all the dragonflight dungeons where on the season 1 table then rotate after that and what happens if your best item comes from a dungeon that aint on the dungeon rotation then i gotta run mythic zero's to get and use like 4k + valor to upgrade it ?

as a blood dk main necrotic is my least favorite affix because it complete negates our defense, at least prot warr has shield block and you still get the dodge, paly shield of rightous, bear is bear, and i dont play monk to often but they have insane mobility same as dh

Dude yes my favorite wow streamers all in one 😂

My only wish for every season is that No key makes me go: noooo, i dont want to do that dungeon...

@14:40 Mists is a lot more fun than DoS. Shorter dungeon are preferred in general by most people.

in my perfect world keys dont deplete, but have a timer for a leader board.

the south park ref is very true lol

30 minutes in and I'm kind of surprised that routing hasn't been suggested as a solution to the trash issue. Have one route where the mobs are little but you have to pull an assload. The other route is less mobs that require more coordination for more %

I feel like kiting is the try hard fall back option when trying to solo or do content that is too hard for your character to survive. Given that m+ infinitly scales, is you push the limit of your gear I feel lile kiting will occure at some level. But I agree I dont want the game tuned around tanks always kiting. It feels pretty bad.