Talking Therapy Episode 40: When Therapy Makes a Patient Worse: Part 1

Рет қаралды 2,277

Жыл бұрын

Hosts:
Marvin Goldfried, PhD, Stony Brook University ( / goldfriedmarvin )
Allen Frances, MD, Duke University ( / allenfrancesmd )
Producer:
Alan Kian, MA, York University
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Marvin Goldfried is a distinguished professor of psychology at Stony Brook University, where he helped to develop the graduate program in clinical psychology-he is the cofounder of the Society for the Exploration of Psychotherapy Integration. Allen Frances is a professor of psychiatry and chair emeritus at Duke, and was chair of the DSM-IV task force.
Marvin describes the evolution of his psychotherapy orientation as psychodynamic, behavioral, CBT, and eventually integrative. He practices, teaches, and supervises what works clinically using direct and indirect evidence base.
Allen describes his approach to psychotherapy as “whatever works” or “no one size fits all”. He was trained and taught at the Columbia University Psychoanalytic Center, but remains equally interested in brief, supportive, cognitive, behavioral, interpersonal, and family therapies.
Please enjoy this week’s episode!

Пікірлер: 37

@sookiebyun4260 Жыл бұрын

When I ended my sessions with a therapist because he was unprofessional, he sent me this text: For the record, I knew you weren’t gonna last very long doing therapy and I knew there would be some situation that would come up where you would either have a difficult time with a boundary I would set or something that would allow you to discontinue therapy. Please know that you need long term therapy because you’re dealing character - logical (personality). If you ever wanna resolve these issues you’re gonna have to commit to weekly therapy for years. Unfortunately, at this point I’m not willing to work with you anymore which includes the future. Preceding this text, I cancelled an appt. 3 days in advance. He accused me of playing little games and ‘acting out’. He gave me an ultimatum and bullied me. There was no way in h*ll that I would ever speak another word to him after that. When he said, “At this point…” I had already ended the session beforehand. He wanted to make sure I felt rejected.

@paulineerickson 11 ай бұрын

So sorry you had this awful experience. Trust and respect are so essential on the healing journey. Please trust yourself to find a trustworthy and respectful therapist or counselor.

@sparrowbarnesmusic5864 8 ай бұрын

It sounds to me like he wanted to feel in control and by u csncelling he lost control. He took control back by making it sound like hes cancelling u and by being so rude.he must've known what he was doing was hurtful. Sorry this happened to u. Im glad u left him because things would only have got worse.

@bizarrebroz3424 10 ай бұрын

I think the number is higher. Most ppl just don't tell their therapists that they made them feel like shit

@patticakewtf Жыл бұрын

Most therapists I’ve had are unqualified to deal with ptsd and don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. And they are too arrogant to admit it

@TheDavveponken Ай бұрын

one really wonders what it is that they CAN do. Most if not all mental distress is evidently a result of traumatic stress of some kind.

@cadmantheaviator Жыл бұрын

Good video. You guys get it. I’d just add that while I was feeling tortured by the application of theory and got really depressed and confused I was doing loops trying to rationalise why the therapist wouldn’t engage on my feeling it was all harming me. The wish to leave on terms with some kind of mutual acknowledgement kept me trapped. In the end I accepted I was not going to get a safe exit so left feeling really vulnerable. Not just a feeling of failure but a deep sadness and a profound feeling of being destabilised.

@cadmantheaviator Жыл бұрын

I spent a year trapped in a group analytic therapy I said I didn’t want to be in. It eroded my self belief and led to years of research and hellish soul searching. I always say it was like Kafka’s The Trial. How would I have known? Indeed. The stress of the whole thing really burned me out. Because I had to learn enough about what might have gone wrong and why the therapist was so determined to let it drag on while blaming me. All quite depressing rabbit holes to go down.

@mooncatandberyl5372 Жыл бұрын

cadmantheaviator, ive only watched a few minutes of video atm, and im already reading comments. you are not alone, ive also felt like ive been living in a kafka novel too. I too am doing research, which has lead me here. I too have been, and am still going down rabbit holes. group therapy isnt for everyone, and it is a way to reduce the costs of therapy, CBT isnt for everyone, neither is analytic therapy, there are many forms of therapy, and a lot depends on if you have been given a correct diagnosis or not, have you been misdiagnosed, are you receiving treatment for a condition that you dont have, also a lot depends on the therapist themselves, their training and experience and how mentally well they are or not, such as do they have narcissistic/ antisocial personality disorder, are you being brainwashed/gaslighted, etc, etc. daniel mackler has loads of very good videos here on you tube. and all this doesnt just apply to therapy, but conditions as a whole, have you been diagnosed correctly, are you receiving the right medication for the right condition, are you being listened to in an objective way, etc, etc.

@cadmantheaviator Жыл бұрын

@@mooncatandberyl5372 The Kafkaesque part for me was talking to the therapist and filling in questionnaires but not having any feedback on that. So moving to her group was immediately doomed. If you are supposed to experience the therapist as authentic and trustworthy, then my feeling it was pointless was correct. She just dragged me through 13 months of questioning myself in every amateur-analytic way possible. Attempts to leave on some kind of basis of understanding or acknowleding something had gone wrong were pointless. It is an experience that leaves me feeling everything is futile. That is is better to hide away and isolate. I just end up back reading about adverse outcomes still, because in some ways it helps to know others have very bad experiences in these rooms. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3330596/

@mooncatandberyl5372 Жыл бұрын

@@cadmantheaviator well said my friend

@AnnaPrzebudzona Жыл бұрын

So, you say that there must be chemistry? Well, it was chemistry that kept me for months in an ineffective therapy that was only feeding into my emotional dysregulation, magical thinking and masochistic tendencies. I think that some therapists might be actually really good at igniting the so-called chemistry. I understand that the chemistry factor can be very helpful in building the therapeutic relationship, commitment, motivation, etc. But it can also be used as manipulative technique by ”skillful” therapists. After seven months of intensive therapy that cost me several thousand euro, there's no significant change neither in my symptoms nor in my life. And, for the love of God, I can't decide whether I was in therapy with a really good con artist or a rather incompetent therapist relying on his arrogant confidence.

@HesGotaGun505 Жыл бұрын

I always love hearing therapists get shittalked. Worthless scam artists to the last man

@balancedbeinghealing Жыл бұрын

Your channel's great! Thank you for your content!

@marlene5628 Жыл бұрын

I've been harmed severely by a therapist as a 14-yo to the point I almost lost my life. Still struggle with the trauma after many many years ... Never received a compensation and later therapists had exactly that approach that again it was my fault, not the professional adult who overstepped my boundaries completely...

@Malin0908 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for this. Made me see things a lot clearer. And it is so true with patients feeling dependent on a therapist and not being able to walk up and leave when it’s making them worse. Probably one of the reason people is in therapy in the first place.

@HesGotaGun505 Жыл бұрын

You have to actually know about real life to legally distribute drugs. Shrinks are about as well regulated as Baptist ministers lol.

@nidhavellir 4 күн бұрын

I think harm needs a definition in the context of the patient's life. If you do endless rogerian therapy that goes nowhere, you've wasted their time and also their hope of improvement. That's harm.

@albussnape2 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for addressing these important factors! Please do a series on these, including the damage that a therapist’s indoctrination into insidious “parts of self” approaches can cause terrible harm to clients. Would be immensely grateful.

@intrapsych1843 Жыл бұрын

What are your thoughts on Internal Family Systems (IFS)?

@danika9411 Жыл бұрын

My therapist did this "parts of self" stuff with me. I did it A LOT like every day in the past 9 month. I think I lost who I am. I'm in a weird state of extremly perceptive like I'm hunting all up and on alert, internal terror and shutdown. I'm like this for the past 3 weeks non stop. I started hitting myself because I hoped it would snap me out of it. My therapist just told me last session that she thinks I'm stable, after I told ger I don't want to do this any longer. And that maybe I don't need further healing...!? I feel like I have never been this unstable. For the first time in my life I feel like I'm truly broken. What are others stories with "parts of self"? Is there any place where I can connect somehow with others? I want to go back to who I was before!

@albussnape2 Жыл бұрын

@@danika9411 I have a story. I’ve looked for years for a group of mental health professionals and victims of this sort of abusive behind-closed-doors, Self destroying approach to “therapy” that would create a safe space for victims to share their stories with each other and with the support of professionals who are against the “parts of Self” movement. Maybe a FB page could be started by professionals who understand the inherent harm these “therapists” can cause people who do Not have dissociative identity disorder (in “Sybil” years, Multiple Personalities). I’ve found some professionals who are against the biases and harm of “parts therapies”, but none interested enough to speak up about them or to address the needs of victims by providing a confidential, supportive space for us to share and, perhaps, to be helped to recover. I’m truly sorry you suffered, and likely still suffer. The “therapy” industry is poorly regulated, with little consumer protection, except for victims of provable physical/sexual misconduct by “therapists”. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying. “Therapists” can do pretty much whatever they are indoctrinated by unethical trainings to do.

@danika9411 Жыл бұрын

@@albussnape2 My therapist told me last session that she doesn't believe a self exists and integration doesn't exist as well.... She mostly works with csa survivors so she probably sees systems quiet often. But I don't think I am one. I never lost memory ever, never woke up somewhere and didn't know how to get there. These things just never happened. I don't hear voices or others. I have depersonalisation though. But before I started therapy I didn't have that for at least 2-3 years anymore. I went there for something different. For the past few weeks I feel like I'm constantly in depersonalisation and I don't know how to stop it. But instead of helping me she just said she thinks I'm healed enough now. Maybe there can be a group to exchange information. Like what did it do to others and how did they help themselfs? How did someone get out of that again and healed? I feel like the more I do it the more I behave as if I got structural dissociation. Because I got used to treat moods as separate people. We often try to split myself up into several inner children, protective part, adult part, introjection and then I talk with these "parts". I didn't understand it in the beginning, because I was supposed to get an inner child and visualize it and giver her an age. And I had no idea what to do. As what age should I imagine myself? I got better at it over time, but I think I'm loosing myself this way. I'm trying to fix it somehow now. I'm trying to find more information about it. ( Sorry for mistakes, English is my second language)

@albussnape2 Жыл бұрын

@@intrapsych1843 IMO, it is Schwartz’ dangerous tweak on the DID indoctrination. He used a deceptive name for his tweaked parts belief system. “Family Systems Therapy” sounds to a highly educated (including in neuropsychology research) person like an orientation including consideration of family dynamics. When full, transparent informed consent clarifying FST as a “parts of Self” approach is not provided, what “therapy”-naive client would question whether “Family Systems” meant other than the family dynamics that might help support the client, or contribute to the problem(s) the client presents? This creates the potential for initial client deception and the insidious application of a distorted, indoctrinated view of people as “unknown” or “dissociated” parts of Self! There is no group of professionals in the “therapy” industry speaking out to educate consumers about the currently too-commonly “parts”-indoctrinated practitioners, breaking down unified Self, bolstered by their arrogant hidden convictions and by confirmation bias. I seriously doubt most of such practitioners were well-educated in critical thinking, in empirically accepted best practices, or in the importance of transparency and confirmation bias.