Talleyrand’s Princess: Dorothea of Courland

Рет қаралды 33,477

Жыл бұрын

Princess Dorothea of Courland witnessed and lived through some of the most momentous events of the 19th century. Her story is about love, betrayal, politics, diplomacy, and meeting powerful personalities, who dominated the European political scene during and after the Napoleonic Wars.
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Sources / Further Reading:
Silhouettes Historiques, Marquis de Segur, Paris, Calmann-Levy, Editeurs
Souvenirs de la duchesse de Dino publiés par sa petite fille, la Comtesse Jean de Castellane, Paris, Calmann-Levy, Editeurs
Memoirs to Serve for the History of Napoleon I, 1802-1815, by Baron Claude-Francois de Meneval, Translated by Robert H. Sherard, London, Hutchinson & Co., 1895 - Vol. II
Memoirs of the Prince de Talleyrand, Edited by The Duc de Broglie, Translated by Raphael Ledos de Beaufort, London, Griffith Farran Okeden and Welsh, 1891 - Vol. II
Memoirs of the Duchesse de Dino, 1836-1840, Edited by The Princess Radziwill, Second Series, London, William Heinemann, 1910
Memoirs of the Duchesse de Dino, 1841-1850, Edited by The Princess Radziwill, Third Series, London, William Heinemann, 1910
Memoirs of Prince Adam Czartoryski and His Correspondence with Alexander I, Edited by Adam Gielgud, London, Remington & Co. Publishers, 1888 - Vol. II
www.google.co.uk/books/editio...
Talleyrand’s Last Duchess by Francoise de Bernardy, Translated from the French by Derek Coltman, New York: Stein and Day, 1966.
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Image Credits:
Portrait de Dorothee de Courlande by Histoirefr - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Grafiene-Doroteja by Robert Lefevre (1755-1830), Rundāle Palace, Latvia - CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
The Friedrichsfelde manor in Berlin by «A.Savin, WikiCommons»
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
The Duchy of Courland and Semigallia in 1740 by No machine-readable author provided. MapMaster assumed - CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Sagan Castle by Kriskros - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0 PL, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Château de Valençay by Jean-Christophe BENOIST - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...

Пікірлер: 65

@Blaqjaqshellaq Жыл бұрын

A lot of your videos have had me thinking, "This story would make a good movie!" But this story could be a TV series over several seasons!

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

Lovely to hear that, James. Thank you very much for your kind words. Much appreciated!

@Blaqjaqshellaq Жыл бұрын

@@livesandhistories She had some interesting descendants too. Her grandson Boson de Talleyrand-Perigord was a cavalry officer and a leading dandy in French high society in the late 19th century. Her great-grandson Boni de Castellane was another leading social figure in the Belle Epoque who married Anna Gould, daughter of US financier Jay Gould, leading to a divorce after he spent $10 million of her father's money. (Her next husband was Boson's son!) He spent the next 18 years in an unsuccessful quest to get the Vatican to declare an annulment so he could remarry within the Church. Her granddaughter Dorothee de Talleyrand-Perigord hosted a popular salon in Berlin, and later another in Paris where she was an inspiration for Marcel Proust. (A LA RECHERCHE DU TEMPS PERDU has a character called Princesse de Sagan, whose name was the origin of BONJOUR, TRISTESSE author Francoise Sagan's pen name.) She had a daughter of unknown paternity and fate, and there's a rumour that she grew up to be Czech writer Bozena Nemcova (whose image is on the Czech 500-koruna note), but that seems far-fetched.

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

@@Blaqjaqshellaq Colourful characters, colourful lives! When researching for Dorothea’s story, I’ve come across some of the names you mentioned. History is fascinating! Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.

@vishnukanagalingam1991 Жыл бұрын

Princess Dorothea's life was a real life adventure. It is incredibly admirable how she did not let the tragedies she experienced in her life hinder her. Thank you for this video. I noticed a new style in this video. It's very nice.

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

You're right, she was incredibly resilient. I'm delighted you liked this video. Thank you for watching.

@robertdudley4017 Жыл бұрын

Superb as always L&H, she was indeed a very remarkable beautiful lady, Thank you for this lovely lady's remarkable life.

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

She was, indeed. Thanks for watching, Robert.

@robertdudley4017 Жыл бұрын

@@livesandhistories always a plesure Thank you L&H

@Jerseyboondocks Жыл бұрын

What an interesting and beautiful love story between her and Tallyrand. I have heard of Tallyrand many times while reading of French history, especially around the revolution and the Napoleonic years...but I never heard of his long time with Princess Dorothea. Thank you for yet another wonderly narrated history lesson, in the form of an captivating story.

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

I'm delighted you found this interesting. It is my belief that history appeals to more people if it is presented in the form of a story. All the best to you.

@adrianjohnson7920 12 күн бұрын

Historically you don't hear anything about Dorothea and Maurice Talleyrand because they became lovers only after the Congress of Vienna, (1816) when he was out of political favour; and as she was his niece, they were careful to keep a low profile to minimise scandal that the 62 year old Statesman and notorious libertine had seduced his 22 year old niece. Actually, though Maurice had genuinely fallen in love with her for her subtle mind and because her genius for politics matched his, he was not a predator; all his mistresses knew him to be gentle and considerate, and he had deep devotion and respect for women-friends who never slept with him. it was Dorothea's decision to leave her young lover Count Clam in Venice to return to Paris and become her Uncle's lover. Because of their emotionally deprived childhoods and each had been coerced into vocations they didn't want (he, into the priesthood; she, into an arranged marriage with a wastrel) they tended to be secretive and not trust many others. Yet each had a deep capacity for friendship, loyalty, and a craving for sincere and tender affection. They felt secure with each other and this was the reason for their enduring devotion to each other ;-- though they had an open relationship, because Dorothea was a passionate woman, and after the birth of their daughter in 1820, their physical relationship became platonic because of his increasing physical frailty. She had several discreet affairs, but they both understood that the man who was the love of her life was always Marurice; they were mutually protective and adoring soul-mates to the end of his life in 1838.

@peggywarren8112 Жыл бұрын

This video about Talleyrand and Dorothea covers one of my favorite historical figures - Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord. It’s a shame that more people aren’t aware of his work, intelligence and dedication to France. I’d like to share titles of three books that other interested persons might find as informative and mesmerizing as I did. Talleyrand, by Duff Cooper. This is the definitive biography on Talleyrand and it’s exquisitely written. I’ve read it more than once! By Influence & Desire, The True Story of Three Extraordinary Women - The Grand Duchess of Courland and Her Daughters, by Rosalynd Pflaum The Congress Dances, Vienna 1814-1815, by Susan Mary Alsop These three books provide a unique insight into the Old Regime, the aristocracy of Europe before and after Napoleon as well as the brilliant mind of Talleyrand. There is a phenomenal wealth of historical data in these books which is fascinating. Taken as a whole, the story in these books would make for a fabulous TV show. Thanks for a wonderful video.

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

I'm delighted you liked this video. To my mind, Talleyrand was a unique figure in history. Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.

@adrianjohnson7920 9 ай бұрын

I would add two in English, translated from the French: "Talleyrand: the Art of Survival" (Talleyrand: Le sphinx Incomprise) by Jean Orieux, 1974 and "Talleyrand's Last Duchess" (Le Dernier Amour de Talleyrand) by Francoise de Bernardy, 1966

@moniquesilverans3842 27 күн бұрын

Talleyrand était un homme remarquable qui a beaucoup défendu la France qui lui est ingrate

@francinesicard464 Жыл бұрын

If only Jean-Jacques Rousseau had applied his principles to his own 5 children he had abandonned!

@ludovicleprinceroyal8721 Жыл бұрын

Superb and exceptionally detailed account!

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you very much for watching.

@tonibarrone854 Жыл бұрын

Very informative! I love these videos of hidden gems! Thank you

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

Glad you like them! Very kind of you to say that. Thank you.

@moniquesilverans3842 27 күн бұрын

Je suis contente de lire tant de commentaires agréables sur Talleyrand que j'admire beaucoup.

@livesandhistories 27 күн бұрын

J'admire également beaucoup Talleyrand.

@savagedarksider5934 Жыл бұрын

Great Video

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

I'm really glad you think so. Thank you for watching, Savage.

@esterherschkovich6499 Жыл бұрын

Always interesting stories...Thank you.💐💐

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

So nice of you to say that. Thank you for watching, Stella.

@beth7935 Жыл бұрын

Wow!! What an amazing & fascinating woman, & what an amazing & fascinating life story! Hearing what she wrote herself, not just what others wrote about her, was great. I kinda hate Rousseau tho- the only point of educating women is "to please men"?! And yet, in the face of this, women like Dorothea educated themselves, & impressed the world with their intellegence & knowledge, & it's cool that Talleyrand recognised that, & she got to use it, not just her beauty.

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

I'm really glad you liked meeting Dorothea. You're right about Rousseau - I agree with you. Thank you for watching, Beth.

@beth7935 Жыл бұрын

@@livesandhistories Yeah, sadly there are still Rousseaus around, but thankfully their misogyny isn’t backed up by law anymore.

@kimberlyperrotis8962 Жыл бұрын

Very good video, very clearly presented. I hadn’t heard of this interesting lady, she certainly was beautiful.

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you liked meeting this lady. Thank you for watching, Kimberly.

@henningvonplaten1548 Жыл бұрын

Your videos are all masterpieces and I especially enjoyed this one!

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

I am delighted to hear that. Your kind words put a smile to my face. Thank you for watching.

@majaber1 Жыл бұрын

Impeccably researched and delivered, I love your videos so densely informative, I rarely find myself asking questions about the characters you illuminate because you cover them so well. Bravo and thanks so much. Have subscribed to your channel. Best wishes.

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

I'm am so glad you are here, watching my videos. I feel encouraged when I get such feedback. Thank you very much for your support.

@camilap.1638 11 ай бұрын

What an interesting woman and story. Talleyrand has always been someone who I found appealing and unique, for better or for worse. Dorothea must have been a highly interesting and committed woman, considering the fact she spent decades with Talleyrand, both as his protégé and -most likely- lover. Thank you for the video!

@livesandhistories 11 ай бұрын

I'm a fan of Talleyrand, too!

@moniquesilverans3842 27 күн бұрын

Il n'y a de pire chez Talleyrand que son amour de l'argent car pour tout le reste c'est un homme fantastique

@adrianjohnson7920 26 күн бұрын

@@moniquesilverans3842 The curious thing about Talleyrand's continual concern with making money is that he seems to have felt that it was his duty as "the last ancient-regime grand seigneur" in high office to "keep up appearances" to foster Fench culture and hospitality. He made and lost more than one fortune, due to bank failures and political upheavals. He was unostentatiously kindhearted and generous. He was admirably stoic when he arrived as a poor emigré in Philadelphia, and soon was earning his living as a banking and real estate agent. His pose of a lazy aristocrat was only a mask; he could and did work hard and was a sound economist and administrator.

@moniquesilverans3842 25 күн бұрын

@@adrianjohnson7920 J'admire énormément Talleyrand mais je sais que ses fournisseurs avaient des difficultés à se faire payer quand ils avaient la chance de l'être. Toute personne même un génie comme Talleyrand a un défaut ce qui le rend humain. Talleyrand n'a jamais trahi la France, il a quitté Napoléon qui était devenu incontrôlable et dangereux pour la France et c'est grâce à Talleyrand que la France existe encore. Je ne suis pas Française, je suis Belge

@adrianjohnson7920 12 күн бұрын

@@moniquesilverans3842 I agree with everything you say.

@NoMercy8008 Жыл бұрын

I have said it before and I will do so again: Your pronunciation of the german names is absolutely splendid ^-^ It is very sad to hear that the mother actually needed to be persuaded by someone unrelated to her daughter that Dorothea is an intelligent child deserving of a proper and good education as opposed to the torture she was subjected to before that. Very weird, aswell. I guess I can not expect everyone to love their children, love is not always going in the direction we would expect. But why does it seem so hard for some people to at least grant their children the respect and positive treatment that every creature on this world deserves by default? Oh my, according to some of the quotes from her, she sounds like a very honest and outspoken princess, i like it :) For example what she says to her future husband when first confronted with him is absolutely amazing, in my opinion. I imagine that not many would have had it in them to be so open about their feelings in that situation due to the pressures they were usually subject to. It is very very interesting to get a more personal angle at Talleyrand through her aswell :) You obviously often hear about him in the context of the Congress of Vienna on a political level, but rarely you hear about the personal lives of the major players in it. I very much enjoy that, thank you so much

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

I think that Dorothea’s lonely childhood shaped her as an individual. Perhaps, she realised that she had to fend for herself. Similarly, Talleyrand had a lonely childhood and was neglected by his parents. It could have been that this was another aspect that made them understand each other really well. In my opinion, both of them were survivors, so to speak. As you say, it must have been really unpleasant for them to be scrutinised and judged by society. I’m really glad you liked this video. Thank you very much for your kind words and support. Make sure you look after yourself. With every good wish, L&H.

@katiamarin9425 11 ай бұрын

Thank you, ❤️

@celedoniojimenez-ww1tb 11 ай бұрын

Eine erstaunliche Vorstellung einer recht entzückenden Geschichte.

@livesandhistories 11 ай бұрын

Vielen Dank!

@Heothbremel Жыл бұрын

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

@danielbolger25 Жыл бұрын

this is my 10th great grandmother

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

Wonderful!

@danielbolger25 Жыл бұрын

@@livesandhistories i am in America but one of these days i want to go visit where she lived and buried at

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

@@danielbolger25 I really liked Dorothea, and her story was very interesting to me. You'll have many places to visit here in Europe, as she travelled a lot.

@Daniel-ih3fn Жыл бұрын

Nice! Your videos should be seen by more watchers. Can I repost your channel without changing anything on the clean platform named Ganjing World? Thank you!

@alfredvikingelegant9156 Жыл бұрын

Talleyrand was a great seducer. Napoleon used to say about him: "his pockets are full of women..."

@livesandhistories Жыл бұрын

That's a fair assessment of Talleyrand, I'd say.

@adrianjohnson7920 9 ай бұрын

Not entirely fair. Talleyrand was a gentleman of the 18th century. The ancient regime had rules of courtesy lost to us: If a woman did not respond to a man's flirtation (always in good taste) it went no further. Prince de Talleyrand had women friends with whom he had slept, and woman friends with whom he had an affectionate platonic regard. He respected both (a womaniser does not). Despite his limp and ugly, misshapen feet, women found him physically as well as intellectually attractive . He was an educated polymath, charming and witty. Even his enemies found his company (especially at his legendary dinner parties) charismatically fascinating. Astonishingly, he kept most of his old mistresses as cherished friends into old age, writing, sending little gifts, and visiting them for the pleasure of their company when they were old and no longer beautiful. They all knew each other, (and were called his "Seraglio"); maintained a deep affection for him, and used to hold delightful salons to share wit and political gossip with him, even when he was out of favour at court. One impoverished and homeless Polish countess (with only one eye) he housed at his various chateaux for over 20 years; she was a kindly companion and friend of his last mistress, the Duchess of Dino. When the old Countess died, Talleyrand wept and had her buried in the crypt he build in the chapel of Valençay where he himself would be buried. An aristocrat statesman of the 18th century, Talleyrand did not mind mixing the business of politics with socialising in Salons; he was quoted as saying "Politics IS women," as he understood the value of enduring relationships with those whose loyalty could be "bought" with affection and respect. He trusted his women friends enough to ask them to gather and share intelligence for him. They appreciated his treating them as intellectual equals.

@alfredvikingelegant9156 9 ай бұрын

@@adrianjohnson7920 In fact Taleyrand knew a lot of women... This means that he appreciated female's company. He was a seducer, but it doesn't mean that he slept with all of them. He could seduce them with his mind, his sense of humour, his knowledge, his fame etc...When Napoleon said : "his pockets are full of women" it means that he used to be surrounded by a lot of pretty or charming women. Nothing else. This is not pejorative. Napoleon didn't like Taleyrand. So, this statement could have been the sign of a kind of jalousy toward his minister... On the contrary, Napoleon liked women, but was not a seducer. He was a sort of military macho who didn't understand female's psychology...He was sometimes rude to them, but never when he felt in love ( Josephine de Beauharnais and the polish countess...). That's all.

@rebbaonisa6765 4 ай бұрын

@@adrianjohnson7920 You can only say that practically if you were there in the 18th century. You weren't there, so you're part of the asylum crowd that thinks they know everything, but doesn't take a bath.

@colonburgess9462 10 ай бұрын

I'm always for Women's Rights!!❤

@moniquesilverans3842 27 күн бұрын

Une grosse erreur : la France n'était pas du tout invitée au Congrès de Vienne où la France devait être dépecé mais c'est Talleyrand qui s'est invité et comme il avait toujours bien reçu tous les représentants étrangers ont lui a fait une place. C'est grâce à Talleyrand que la France n'a pas été dépecée car c'était un homme extremement intelligent et il a bien défendu la France qui ne lui en est pas reconnaissante.