Targes, Targets and Rotellas

Рет қаралды 3,635

Stoccata

4 жыл бұрын

An exploration of the different sorts of round shields used in the British Isles from the 16th to 18th centuries

Пікірлер: 31

@tsafa 9 ай бұрын

After so many years of fighting with shields, I never thought I would find a video that had so much information that was new to me.. very well done

@wiskadjak 4 жыл бұрын

If Swetnam didn't like him he must have been a fun guy!

@wiskadjak 4 жыл бұрын

I read somewhere that the rotella was used to deflect the rocks thrown at you when you're climbing a siege ladder. Have also seen a engraving showing a guy crouching under his rotella like it was an umbrella while castle defenders were trying to knock him off a ladder with big rocks. Maybe this is why it was curved. I'd certainly want something more than brolly for that job.

@Stoccata 4 жыл бұрын

Sounds plausible!

@SuperOtter13 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you I found this especially fascinating. One of my top 5 favorite channels. Keep up the great work!

@stewartgaudin2023 4 жыл бұрын

Fascinating video with lots of food for thought.

@jamesnave1249 10 ай бұрын

What kind of thickness are we talking about for a targe? And did how thick is this steel plate that is in them? Great informative video by the way. Thabks for the great content

@korg20000bc 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this. We did a term on Page's sword and targe last year. We found Page to be completely correct in this: unless you understand the targe and how it is used you are better off without without it and should fight single sword. Good fun, though.

@CommissarMoody1 2 жыл бұрын

I would like to find out more about "rufus the ruffian". Can you suggest any books, archives or website that might have something about him? My quick Google search kept on bring up horse racing and some ones golden retriever.

@luizObst 4 жыл бұрын

thanks good video!

@BladeFitAcademy 4 жыл бұрын

I want to love the targe. But for reasons you point out, I keep circling back to buckler for single combat. And since no one is shooting musket balls at me, it would seem the 18th century targe is definitely its own thing.

@cdgonepotatoes4219 3 жыл бұрын

It may not be as good as a buckler or dagger, but duels carried with both having claymore and targe are quite nice and technical

@BladeFitAcademy 3 жыл бұрын

@@cdgonepotatoes4219 definitely. The targe might work much better for someone else, and I'd rather have a solid oak targe instead of a buckler as a Jacobite rebel when lined up against British Regulars. So it all depends on time and place.

@Stephen_Curtin 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much for answering my question Paul. I should have been more specific though. I was asking about the larger rotella sized target vs a bucker in the context of single combat. So you believe a buckler is superior to a small Highland style targe in single combat. Does this opinion apply to the larger rotella also? I know Silver thought so. The historical background info was interesting. I've spent a lot of time looking into the history and development of the Highland targe and I haven't read anything about targes starting out big and getting smaller around the time of Killiecrankie. I'll definitely have to re-examine the sources with this in mind. Do you have evidence of this? I know that the portrait of Sir Niall O'Neill from 1680 has a very big targe and that's always seemed like a strange outlier to me. If a shift from big to small targes did happen then it must have happened before Killiecrankie or have been happening very gradually leading up to that point. I say that because there is a small targe which belonged to Sir Donald Mackay dated to 1623. Also there are two small targes from Ireland which supposedly date to the late 16th century. Anyway thanks again and keep the good video content coming

@Stephen_Curtin 4 жыл бұрын

So I looked again at Defoe's Memoir of a Cavalier and he says "they carried great wooden targets, large enough to cover the upper part of their bodies". When I read this passage before I didn't think it referred to anything other than the typical Highland targe, perhaps only slightly bigger than average, maybe 20 or 21 inch in diameter. I can see now how this could indeed refer to targes more in the 22 to 24 inch range but I'd want to see more evidence before I'm totally convinced.

@Stephen_Curtin 4 жыл бұрын

After some more searching it appears that Donald Cameron of Lochiel's targe that he carried at Culloden has a diameter of 24 inches. Perhaps both large and small targes were used alongside one another throughout the 16th to 18th centuries, with the larger ones predominating early on and smaller ones becoming more popular as time went on.

@stewartgaudin2023 4 жыл бұрын

@@Stephen_Curtin Perhaps as a Chief (future) the larger targe was status related especially given that he would traditionally have had a retinue of followers to assist in defending him though this effectiveness may have become obsolete given the disciplined fire and bayonet technique of the British Army he was facing?

@Stephen_Curtin 4 жыл бұрын

@@stewartgaudin2023 Well as far as I know nearly all of the high status targes that have survived to modern times are in the 18 - 20 inch range, so it seems unlikely to me that larger size indicated higher status.

@Stoccata 4 жыл бұрын

@@Stephen_Curtin Another one from Auldearn, where Colkitto covered the retreat of his own men with his “large” targe: “Nothing could exceed the admirable manner in which he managed this retreat, and the courage he displayed while leading off his men. Defending his body with a large target, he resisted, single-handed, the assaults of the enemy" And as well as the O'Neill picture, the “Portrait of Captain Thomas Lee” painted in 1594 also shows a large target on his back. In short, I think it's likely 16th and 17th century highland /Irish targets were the same size as every other target in Europe at the time - that is, big enough to hide under. The weird but interesting thing is that they got so much smaller...

@ajithsidhu7183 4 жыл бұрын

Yess

@ajithsidhu7183 4 жыл бұрын

Can u do one on saber thecquinces

@ivymike2691 4 жыл бұрын

What was the typical thickness like on those all-steel rotellas?

@benjaminabbott4705 3 жыл бұрын

1.5-2mm based on rough calculations of size & weight from museum examples of 16th-century steel shields, excluding the massive targets of proof. However, shields in museums tend to fancy examples, so could be distorted. Sir John Smythe's shield, presumably for light-cavalry use, looks to be about 1.8mm thick.

@Joe-ci3te 4 жыл бұрын

Didnt George Silver say something about buckler vs target? I cant quite rember

@benjaminabbott4705 3 жыл бұрын

He gave the buckler the advantage over the target.

@Joe-ci3te 4 жыл бұрын

Did the English,Scottish, and Italians use the target shields in the same way?

@Stoccata 4 жыл бұрын

The Italian rotella use seems to be a lot more passive than the British use of companion weapons, which are used to bind the opponent's weapons a lot more. That may have to do with the larger size of the rotella, and maybe also beat, being convex and smooth, its slippery and harder to bind