It would be far more accurate to say the Chinese had no glassware, they were capable of producing glass, and did indeed have mirrors, they simply did not use it for producing vessels. It is also worth mentioning that the Chinese did make and drink wine, or at the very least an alcoholic beverage based on grapes, it was mostly used, however, for ceremonial occasions and was never the everyday drink of people.

I find this programme endlessly fascinating! Clips such as these frequently lead me to seek out further information. It's also not uncommon for me to gasp whenever I finally glance at my watch & realize HOURS have passed. I affectionately refer to these occasions as "jumping down a QI rabbit hole."

This may be the MOST interesting thing I've ever heard on QI.

Chinese did have glass long before Western Europeans came over to that hemisphere: "Even though the Chinese did not begin using telescopes and microscopes until after they were introduced from Europe in the 16th century, they had been making mirrors since the 7th century B.C. "Very early," wrote Boorstin, "they made burning mirrors and curved mirrors, they were adept at glass technology at least from the fifth century B.C., and they were actually wearing eyeglasses in the fifteenth century.

Strictly speaking glass does react with some things. It's merely used in chemical glassware because it doesn't react with MOST things. That said the compounds it does react with are the sort of things that essentially set fire to water.

The first time I heard this "no glass in China" idea was on James Burke's 'Connections'. A brilliant TV series by the way.

Ooh, I must have more of this.

Early Chinese eyeglasses were kept in place with weights that hung down behind the ears. Sunglasses, it appears were invented in China. Early ones used smoke tinting glass technology that was developed by 1430. Among the first people to wear tinted glasses were Chinese judges who wore smoke-tinted quartz lenses to conceal their eye expressions during court proceedings

I think their researchers got the non existence of glass in china wrong, but what i don't think they got wrong was the philosophy that the chinese were Satisfied with the tea cup as a product (which i think is something of an elegant eastern philosophy). Where in europe working with it on a daily basis stimulated other inventions.

Reminds me of The Road Not Taken by Harry Turtledove. By not discovering glass China went down a different road.

i just adore stephens love at the end

1:20 - Glass does actually react with some things, just not most.

That was absolutely fascinating. This is one of my favourite shows because as much as I love good comedy and humour, I love knowledge, and this show provides both in copius amounts.

Glass is great for flasks in chemistry -- except -- when used with fluorine which etches it.

Rob Brydon and his classy jokes. Gotta love him.

Technically, any drink made from fermented fruit is called a 'wine' and any fermented from a cereal is called a 'beer'. Wines made from things other then grapes and beers made from things other then malted hops usually have a qualifier in front of them name (Elderberry Wine, Spelt Beer). Only exception to this is Rice wine, which is actually closer to beer, although fermented via amolysis from fungi, rather then through a mash.

@000steelandstone000 Some interesting points but none of them mean that Stephen is wrong; Quite simply - rice 'wine' is not actually wine. The term wine comes from the german 'winam' from the Latin 'vinum' which can mean - 'wine' 'grape' or 'grape vine'. Calling fermented rice 'wine' is a reference only to it's comparable alcohol content, it's actually much more like beer or spirits. All he said or implied is that they did not develop glass - that's all. Rice wine storage technology......

This is REALLY quite an interesting fact! More accurately, the Chinese had glass (later than others, like the Egyptians, but still in the BC era) and they used it for a couple of things, but didn't really run with the idea - much in the same way as the steam engine was invented as a little toy curio in Roman Egypt, but it wasn't really used for anything (curiously, a thousand years later in Ottoman Egypt it was reinvented as a device to turn a cooking spit).

@SubtleChaotic No it's a grain, which is grass

Now THAT was interesting!

@EricMetalGuitarist i think the fact they imported the glass means that there was no experiments when casting and polishing..hence no advancement.. and metal mirrors using old smelting tech would have been pretty ordinary too.. they may have had the bare bones of this tech, but they didnt want to advance it..

That's not strictly correct Stephen.. Glass react by putting stuff in it... If you pour boiling water in a glass beaker it can crack. Depending on how thick the glass is

@8lostprophet9 Not the same thing. Read what it says; "flat panes of smoky quartz". This means they took smoky quartz and just cut it into flat panes; this doesn't make it "glass", it hasn't been refined in any way. Calling that "glass" would be like grabbing a pencil to write on a plank of wood, and then calling it "paper", because hey, paper is made from wood and you can write on both, so same thing.

@EricMetalGuitarist Although some of the points raised may be dubious the main gist of the video is very thought provoking

Well I say set fire. It isn't traditional combustion but there are flames. Fluorine for example reacts with pretty much everything and would essentially set fire to water. And there are also a couple of compounds (based on fluorine I believe) that are even more electronegative and even more reactive. That said. These aren't compounds you're likely to use in a lab EVER. So glass by and large is perfect for chemistry.

And in the absence of glassware for daily use, and in the presence of gunpowder, the preponderance of accidental (or intentional) arson was higher by one magnitude in China. This served as a disadvantage for at least 500 years.

@killbunniesdead he specifically says: from the 14th century to the 19th century they didn't have any glass made. not using it for anything, they would not have found out its special properties, anyway. by the way, glass is a mesopotamian/egyptian invention, and the carthaginians were the first to make perfectly clear glass.

@leoaltus But did Egyptian glass lead to European usage of glass or did Europe develop it independently?

"Cuppa? yeah we'll have a cuppa.."

@xrey2000 yeah, i've seen polished bronze jobs that they used as mirrors.

shame we don't have shows like this in the U.S

im trying to find that QI clip where they talk about the legal drinking age for children in britian. ive seen it before but can't find it now can some one give me a link please ?

this might be the most interesting thing ive seen on this show

One small mistake, hydroflouric acid cannot be kept in glass. It will react with the glass. It is kept in rubber or very inert containers.

Can anyone identify exactly what kind of china that is in the picture (background, history???)

Rob Brydon? I would!

@iunnox666 Yes indeed, they studied astronomy quite extensively.

@EricMetalGuitarist But, wine is not wine if it's not from grape? Vigne in french for grape bushes..

@psionic1212 That would be 18th century actually.

@victorwongvw Sorry Victor but that is also not accurate. There are decorative types of glass of all colors throughout the Ching dynasty beginning with Kangxi (1662-1722) Which covers th15th century just in the imperial use of the snuff bottles. In fact Peking glass is the first type of glass overlay placing two disparate colors together. The difference lay only in the use to which the different cultures placed the glass.

Is this is Guns, Germs, and Steel? It sounds like it would be.

But Wikipedia states, "the earliest archaeological evidence for glass manufacture in China comes from the late Zhou Dynasty (1046 BC to 221BC)" so, I guess it's not the 14th to 19th century?

@psionic1212 he's talking about glass and what comes with glass, not everything else

I'm pretty sure that fine glass was(I e the decently optically permeable) was invented in Syria and Egypt. it came to Europe via Venice.

Actually wine was invented in China, grapes, hawthorn and many other fruits were first used for wine in China. China also had glass vessels like cups and plates, however, glass was rare in China, especially clear glass which is almost non-existent or imported. The technological level of bronze, iron, ceramic and jade crafting were millenniums ahead of it's time in China and many are still unsurpassed even with modern technology. So why use glass when we had better things? China also did had mirrors, especially bronze mirrors, and have been the topic of a few folklore and myths. Mirrors are also some the most important equipment in Daoist rituals and FengShui. Although I must also point out that sunglasses were invented in China using smoky quartz, this was to by judges in ancient Chinese courts to conceal their facial expressions while questioning witnesses.

those were ceramics

actually, the ceramic surface is made of glass

errr yeah sure. why not.

This needs to be brought to America. Comcast doesn't have BBC one.

@501028 hey, yeah ericmetalguitarist is referring to rice-wine. It IS still called rice wine no matter what you want to say about it. However, you're right it's not grape-based which leads into QI's point that it doesn't have the colour (rice wine is clear). Second, the mirror thing. The mirrors they used back then isn't that different from how we use them now (in the practical uses). It's disingenuous to compare it to water ... ... I think you're both right to a degree though. Anyways, :)

@chereadnine ... didn't want to?

can you imagine, if the chinese had invented wine? those bottles would be so expensive... XD

@tuxdwyer "If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people in the world?" --Thomas Jefferson

I've learned more from this show than all of my years of schooling combined.

Makes you wonder what we have skipped over. o_O

Unfortunately, all the polished metal mirrors the Chinese used to use were nicked and sold to the scrap metal bloke up the road!

@rftluong ahh...I didn't call him an idiot. I said a fool. There's a diffrence!

1 porcelain is not reactive to any chemicals. 2 China had wine in the Shang dynasty approximately 4500 years ago. 3 the Chinese had a sophisticated intellectualized culture almost 1,000 years before the Greeks. 4 (excerpt from wikipedia) the earliest archaeological evidence for glass manufacture in China comes from the late Zhou Dynasty (1046 BC to 221BC). I'm seeing a few flaws in the facts presented in this clip.

@EricMetalGuitarist Rice wine is not wine, the same way soy milk is not milk. and I dont believ rice wine had the same colour as wine. Have you ever used a bronze mirror?

China had the ability to create glass. While they did not invent it, it was a Hellenistic invention, it came to China through the Silk Road. Granted it was never used to the extent pottery was but it was present. I think if the Chinese had a need for a non reactive material like glass they could have remembered they had it. The episode is misleading because it makes it seem the Chinese never had access to glass or the ability to make it, which it in true.

im pretty sure China had mirrors. otherwise, how would Mulan see her reflection?

A somewhat too deterministic reading of history for my taste. I am much more inclined to attribute their assbackwardness to greater entrenchment of a feudalistic system and lack of markets which would have led to such innovations as glass.

@iamaweasel i live in the UK. Not one person I know or have seen is like stephen fry.

Now if only China had invented the fork instead of chopsticks.

@tominator0x0 He is Britain incarnate

That and if they sorted out their politics too

@lolookphor Most of us are: that's why Qi is made in the UK.........

@000steelandstone000 .....is not really relevant. I think you're saying in point 3 that at one point in history traditional chinese medicine was more advanced. I believe this was stephen's point - that the simple invention of glass played a major part in allowing western medicine to overtake the once more advanced chinese.

In chemistry terms, alcohol is technically a solution.

@000steelandstone000 oh how is it wrong?

@FreedomValentine LOL. yeah.

im chinese and i never realize this point...

But the Chinese had glass...for dynasties...o_o.

The chinese used copper for mirror, but only for royalties.

@2bobaf ...how interesting?

Egyptians are the ones who first made glass.. 2500BC. QI has tons of incorrect information.

@quesonegro That must be like, human cruelty, how can you live without QI??? XD

@sextonqpr he created an informative message post, even if it's bullshit, you don't have to call him an idiot for it ... be better to bring up the error in their post.

if it's glass that changed everything and glass was made because of wine.. shouldn't it be grapes that changed chinese history?

wow

(psionic1212) So says the person who demands respect for Minecraft...

"The irony is a lot of them prefer coffee." :)

The Chinese had invented thousand of things long before the west that we ate still using today.

Eh, I think it's much more to do with isolationism and conservatism. China tried to preserve it's feudalist society and traditional culture during this time, and as a result scientific research, trade and oversees exploration was halted or reduced to the point of being noticeable. It's not that the Chinese weren't able to invent these things, it's that they didn't want to.

@EricMetalGuitarist Wine=made of grapes. if it's made out of something else it's not wine. Beer and wine are both alcoholic beverages but they are called different for a reason. Same goes for mirrors. Something that reflects doesn't have to be a mirror. Ow look I can see my reflection in the water.... It's a mirror!!!... I hope you understand what I'm getting at.

@Blazekickz I think she is funny.

stephen fry is what britons should be like.

@Doomsday2060 Just let the 5 year old do what he wants.

we invented something they didn't, and they invented something we didn't. so why are they the ones considered missing out?

: )

ALCOHOL!

ahahah fuckin brilliant xD

7th placer!! yeah !!! lol

@Doomsday2060 omg lol u r so right im like wtf fail lol

first?

yeah sweet, first.

I'm no expert on glass, but when I first heard this I knew he was if not talking rubbish, at least vastly oversimplifying things. Chinese progress stagnated also in part due to arrogance; the Emperors believed that their technology was superior to Western technology, even when Western technology started to supercede that of the Chinese. Of course, even that is possibly an oversimplification as well. Availability of coal was another factor.

What super brain?

Troll?

5th place fail.