Eagleton's point about how our lives are filled with labor as a result of capitalism's inequalities is important. It's something we should think a lot more about.

Nice to see you upload again.

We need classical /humanistic education more than ever, because degradation is everywhere and I hope we can stop that degradation! In every aspect... Daria from Vienna/AT...

The American author Jonah Goldberg makes a great point in his book, "Liberal Fascism," this is that what is now called liberalism, not classical liberalism to make sure, has fascist roots. Thus the degradation of culture into a least common denominator today matches the goals of WWII Nazism.

I’m a simple man. I see a new ObjectiveBob video, I click.

Fascinating discussion. I agree with both on the neglect of the humanities. In many respects we have moved from Athens (philosophy & culture) to Rome (engineering & public benefits). But I don’t think Marxism is the answer. The reason individuals do have leisure is because of a system of trade. Not through the neglect of it. I suspect part of this is the human propensity toward greed (which is subversive of any political system - market or socialist/communist). Scruton raises a good point to ask what is the alternative (to a market system - which, btw, will always exist. When those on the left sought to eliminate it - via command economies - black markets emerged). The only answer to this is, for society as a whole to recognize this. To be educated. Life is not about power or money. It is so much more. But all systems have their way of devaluing the humanities. A liberal arts education holds value but must be promoted. When universities become competitive for students they have to focus on economic benefits (“graduate here and earn $100k!”). But the alternative runs into other elements (“you must take course X and we, the government, will tell you what is appropriate or inappropriate to teach”). Society must ultimately come to some agreement about the benefits of higher education in the humanities and arts. And promote that at all levels. Without exercising tight control over the details of what is taught within the humanities. Difficult to do in today’s identity politics as Scruton observes .

Work/ life balance for all workers

Is all popular culture "degraded" culture? Consider Star Trek at its best, for instance. Or something like Young Sheldon. There's actually a good deal of popular entertainment around that succeeds in encouraging people to think, to be civil to one another, and to appreciate the merits of other viewpoints --- and that actually succeeds better in this than elite humanities programs in higher education. Moreover, there are plenty of professional classical musicians and composers who could turn somebody like Scruton on to Pink Floyd. Elitism is as much a part of the problems under discussion here as anything.

Very timely subject matter considering actions of Twitter and KZfaq etc in the last day or two especially. I'm guessing that's your purpose.

This was a great debate, and lots of good humoured sparring. Amazing how their perceived roles were reversed: Marxist Eagleton as a real dinosaur, the conservative Scruton absolutely on it.

Ahhck! What’s next? He doesn’t really respond to the retort re: our dumbed down and overly leisurized society. TV, video games, KZfaq etc, none of these are labor, and yet they consume a majority of our time. In fact it may well be that the harder we work, the more creative energy goes into our art as art becomes all the more important and our only respite from labor itself (instead of stupefied internet consumption or whatever). I doubt this is entirely true, it’s hard to create when exhausted. I think perhaps the conversation needs to shift to the *kind* of art that is being produced now. It is NOT mostly pointless (though it appears to be)-video games, KZfaq, etc.- many of the most popular forms of media are made precisely to be monetized. Art has become, in some respects, the media science of making money.

5:28 How interesting that the probably intended _"fighting Stalinism"_ comes out sounding like _"fighting _*_for_*_ Stalinism"_ . I am no subscriber to Freudian "psychology" of the usual suspects such as Edward Bernays, to put it mildly, however if there is such a thing as a Freudian slip, that would be a classic example.

"I'm a marxist because I don't like work". Imagine my shock.

Too bad Eagleton isn't a Stalinist.

Long live Thatcher