Fudge.... um. Did you ever have to maintain them or anything???

What is your process? Prob if you add enough rock then the dirt won't be able to reach the drain perforations?

@@nofurtherwest3474 that's what I was thinking

We don’t have much slop in our back yard and water is a huge problem. This coming spring I am planing to put in French drains and I am hearing to use fabric and then not to use coming from the same KZfaqr. At this point I am planing on a stepping stone walkway with French drains on both sides with no fabric. This is the lowest point of the yard with very little slop so may have to put in sump pump system. Can you tell me if this sounds the correct way of doing it ?

Sure, & the follow-up customer service agent is Helen Waite….😂 If you can even get through the Fax machine that always *answers* a customer calling in…..

Exactly. Now he just needs to do that 400 more times to simulate 5 years of rain

Right. People are obsessed with looks over function. But like you hinted at, a rock path can look good.

I've done that. Works great especially ringing a building. No different than regular rock mulch.

Could you instead put a walkway using pavers on top of the rock path? using sand as the paver base on top of the rock?

@@joshuacoffelt9300 My understanding is that with sand and pavers up top, you'd not have much of a French drain. Water has to flow down into it, unless the plan is to use an open pipe instead and have water come up from the bottom, into holes in the bottom of the pipe and hope it stays in the pipe long enough to flow out. My initial comment was more about recognizing a drainage system that takes care of both surface water and water not much under the surface. If the water table is really low, several feet, and causing foundation issues, that's a different thing. Most times. we're dealing with more _near-surface_ issues that will seep down and cause problems. The thinking is, if you snag the water from up top, it won't go down and cause problems.

Covering a french drain with more permeable decorative stuff works great. I built a few like that around my house. 4 or so. Here's 2 of them. The other two are 1. Under a brick patio. And 2. Under decorative brick edging by a driveway. These next two i have videos of. French drain topped with 2 types of stone and limestone pavers. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hs6SgdF3s9Svc5c.html At 1 minute in is another example. 2 foot deep french drain ringing a garage covered with stone and cement pavers. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eLmqa8x-tJiwf4U.html

Yes it does - for the same reason other filters clog over time & must be replaced (coffee or water filters, for example). Leaving access to periodically flush soil build-up in french drains seems to be the best solution. There's a special jet tip that goes on the end of a pressure washer hose that is great for DIYers - and can even clear clogged lines. Much better than having to dig up & redo the filter-wrapped french drain when the clay clogs it, & they also remove ground water faster.

@@deecee2837 that pressure washer hose with jet tip .? .. I used it to clean out the pipe between the septic tank and distribution box. Then, used it up thru all 6 outlets to the distribution box to keep the leach field working. (75ft of line) It was a S#!tty job . .. but somebody😳needed to do it..

anything on the surface of stone will encourage clogging, thus why we don't put grass back on top. Decorative stone looks nice but more importantly prevents soil/clay from clogging up the drain.

Yes... and no. Like he said, you must use the proper fabric. The landscaping fabric at big box stores won't work. Geo-textiles does work and will not clog and they allow water through much faster than landscaping fabric. You can actually get different fabrics that have different flow characteristics. It's the same stuff they put under roads to have proper drainage underneath them, otherwise they wouldn't last long due to ice heave and erosion.

The pores in fabric are smaller than pores in stone. Better the fines run out of the french drain than clog up fabric. Common sense.

I just did a surface french combo. Im finishing it tomorrow.

​@keMikells43 congrats. How's it doing?

u just jinxed yourself

Thats the best way to do it, IF youre putting soil back on tip. That being said youre still reducing the effectiveness of the drain by putting soil/grass on top

@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 weird cus french drain man swears put the pipe on very bottom, against the filter fabric. he says do NOT put any gravel under the pipe. He says that only means you will have standing water in the bottom of the drain up to the pipe all the time (example, if you have 4" of gravel under your pipe, then you would have up to 4" of standing water in the bottom of your drain). I can see this might be true. But I think the reason for the gravel (besides it being a good drainage material I suppose) is to dry out and kill roots trying to reach the pipe which would clog it. So the gravel can be thought of as a root barrier. In that case, you WOULD want gravel under the pipe. If you just have filter fabric under the pipe, you figure that filter fabric is NOT going to holds off roots forever. So basically I can see both ways being correct and dont know the correct answer :(

@@cryengine_x fabric eventually biodegrades. Also gravel doesn't hold water... unless your drain is flat, which wouldn't work anyways. We like the water to slow down a little at the base of the drain, but use the pipe as an escape for fast flash floods. Using the 3/4 gravel, the drain will almost function without the pipe entirely, until a hurricane comes through, that's when you need the pipe.

@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 eventually but the key is how long, 30 yrs? if you use good stuff not home depot junk as many seem too. if gravel drains then it definitely holds water, thats the point of the whole void system and the whole drain really. if the dirt absorbed that water the drain wouldn't be needed

@@cryengine_x give or take, but corrugate pipe is really only good for 25 years i wouldnt sweat it.

With fabric flushing will do nothing. You will need replace the fabric after the clay fines seal it.

@@blackdogleg Exactly. The ground and clay above the fabric will seal and the system will be rendered useless anyway.

@@blackdogleg if you are trying to capture surface water that is true. However if the goal is to capture ground water at the footer then it creates a low pressure point for the hydrostatic pressure created by all the water in the ground. It’ll seep in there rather than your CMU

@@emeraldtigerhd5176 will do the same without the fabric.

But that fabric itself won't keep forever either. I'm sure it will deteriorate quicker than using just the rock.

Don't fall

Traditional French Drain....no piping thumbs 👍

It isn't a good idea to have a yard drain connected to a perforated pipe. It introduces too much water into the ground around the pipe, saturating the soil you are trying to keep dry

You get surface water from compacted top soil or saturated ground soil. French drain should take care of both. If your getting surface water is mostly because you have compacted top soil. You need to aerate. Or your French drain is clogged. I'm not sure about clay. I know Clay holds surface water . Not sure if it does any good aerating. But here in Illinois it's 99 percent compacted top soil if surface is holding water and there's no ground water

@@jheiny1231 I owned a home outside Chicago and battled surface and groundwater on multiple fronts from multiple sources. The house was the low one amongst the neighbors. There's not enough aeration in the world to deal with what I was dealing with. I tackled it with regrading for a swale, a concrete curb between the driveway and house, French drain to the drain tile on the uphill side, and 150' of buried downspouts and sump pump discharge to the ditch out front.

It sounds like you have some other issues. Your yard shouldn't hold surface water if there's a French drain running under it. If it does there's 2 issues there.. 1 your soil is compacted and the water can't penetrate the top layer of soil or 2 the French drain was installed incorrectly and in the wrong spot. There is absolutely no reason to run surface drains in a homes yard. Surface drains are good for concrete and asphalt surfaces. The French drain starts literally right after the sod. There should b no reason water couldn't penetrate 2inches of soil to make it in the French drain system. That of course if the French drain was installed in the right spot and correctly installed. Been doing yard drainage solutions for 14 years. There is rare occasions a surface drain is applicable. But 99 percent of the time its not

I don't know why I'm seeing this now, but here goes: Your assertion that "there's no reason to run surface drains in a home's yard" is as wrong-headed as it gets. I told you I was in a bowl. That means neighbors properties flooding mine with running surface water during storms. Literally two temporary creeks. All that surface water coming at me, and with a basement in the house (which punches a hole in the top cap of clay in my area), where do you think that surface water was going? I had to mitigate it BEFORE it migrated into the soil. A French drain can only mitigate as deep as the trench (my basement is 6-8 feet deeper). The best way to manage ground water is to not let it become ground water in your area of concern. Swale (grading) is #1. Surface drains are #2 (so much faster/more efficient).

What kind of soil do you have? Apparently it makes a difference and I'm getting ready to build a retaining wall and I need to make a decision

@@donnyh3497 clay soil. Working great still without fabric and drains well when wet outside. I ensured it was tight to soil and filled on top with large chips.

@@edi8656 thanks!

Hi, I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone too. Curious, did you originally use the non-woven punched fabric? I'm reading where the clay is not suppose to clog that... but a filter is a filter, and they eventually clog. Of course I guess the rock alone will eventually clog too

Because the surface water will be at higher pressure than the subsurface water, so all the water captured by the surface tap will flow OUT of the french drain holes..... 'Once you have captured water, NEVER give it a chance to get back out again until you move it to a place to get rid of it'......

@@Debbiebabe69 not true. Water follows the path of least resistance, so unless the entire pipe is completely submerged, water will choose to flow through the pipe

Stepic systems are not installed inside of the frost line. That is the reason french drains fail. They are exposed to frost heave.

@@Luckingsworth I literally put in hundreds of septic systems. My septic is only a foot or two down not 4 feet. My tank only has 6 inches of cover meaning my piping is within 2 feet. Which is well within the frost line.

@@JasonTheMunicipalMechanic you cant drill holes in PVC in 360 degrees like corrugated. If you do it will weaken the pipe and cause fail. PVC rigidity is its weakness. It cracks easily. Corrugated also has a self cleaning action due to turbulence, that prevents clogging. Corrugated is THE standard in public contracting drainage for a reason. But go ahead, build your french drain with PVC. See how that works out for you.

@@cryengine_x pvc doesn’t have holes drilled 360 around it. It has 2 rows of holes 120 degrees apart that you put down on the bottom and the water flows up into them. The holes are also much bigger I believe 5/8 inch. Thank you for the lesson, You don’t even know what product I’m talking about. If schedule 40 broke in the frost then every single septic in my state would be ruined, schedule 40 is the code for septic piping in Massachusetts, and no every septic is not under the frost line. Mine is not and many I installed are not either. My leach field is literally made of this perforated pipe and only about 2 feet down. Also these septics have plans that are draw by engineers and approved be the town so it’s not just some guy burying stuff. So yeah I do have that as drainage and it works just fine.

​@@JasonTheMunicipalMechanicok ok ok. Thank you for your sincere reply

It floods on your land. Would you be opposed to just raising the hight of your land with fill dirt. You could direct the water away from your yard and into a storage"pond

@@vanderumd11 I'm actually in a half ass project right now. Behind my land is the drainage for the area and my land is sloped quiet a bit. I started to dig my French drain trench and now I'm gonna add non woven geo textile fabric, stone, and 3 inch pvc (was gonna go 4). I'm going to tie into my roof drainage system and bring all that was to the back. Backfill the area the same way and put a pond on the lowest side to prevent water from escaping to the negibors since he is lower than I am. I have to add a speed channel to garage pavement and add a water bumper under garage door. So far just digging the trench has solved most of that issue but during torrential downpours it's still an issue. I think redirecting the water is my best bet especially since the amount of rain we get and how it drains since it's close to the water table. I've done projects like this before but it is a ton of work for one person.

I hear you! I am a 64 year old woman (as of a week ago)and I'm also trying to figure this shit out! My brain hurts!

Add the 4, 6 and 8oz fabric thickness choice and oh yea, instant headache...I think seperating the gravel and soil makes sense. Chuck has a video where the water struggles to get through - but is that 8oz fabric? Water flows through 4oz easily. I'm going put fabric in the trench, (I think it's 4oz) then pipe and gravel (rougher gravel moves more water) and on top, staple the fabric across the top to the side top corner, so there's only 1 layer on top and fabric won't move. Then more gravel on top so there's maximum amount of cavities for the water. My pipes drain into tubs where 2x12volt bilge pumps take water out...yep, headaches....

Hi Melanie I am currently working on a french drain project also and it's honestly been a nightmare. You sound like you want to get rid of surface water along the side so I would just put fabric on the bottom and the side and then I would fill to the top with gravel, the only problem is if you have dispersive clay this then blocks the outside of the fabric which is why some people are telling you it doesn't work because actually after a while the clay blocks the outside not the inside, however without the fabric clay blocks the gravel and pipe instead? I think if I were you I would just use a light fabric all over because you may have a problem with debris like leaves clogging the gravel in which case do the main trench in fabric on the bottom and sides and then cut a top separate fabric and thin layer of gravel over the top, this would be easy to rip out and put new stuff in every couple of years if the top layer of gravel gets blocked without taking out the whole drain. If you don't have dispersive clay then it's not so important to use different weight of fabric or fabric at all. You can do a test easy by putting your soil into a dish of water and see if it stays in a ball or if it gently breaks apart.

@@lala_land86 I'm no expert but if you've got clay, you need to get the water away. I wrapped the gravel and flex perf pipe with fabric and liquid nailed it shut so zero dirt can enter. These 10"round "sausages" work well, key points are: - dig good fall into the trench. - at the lowest point I dug a hole for a large bucket with holes. - put a 750 gallon per hour, 12 volt bilge pump in the bucket to pump the water away from the problem area. - to power it you need to know pumps use up to 4 times their operating power use on starting. So multiply 12volt x 3 amp = 36watts, then multiply by 4, so 150 watt 12 volt supply is reqd.

@@lyndamiller453 Haa,I love the way you explained yourself..!, 74, living in KY,clay dirt, doing it myself thought I had it down about what to do , watched this video ! now my brain hurts! totally totally confused !!

We just did your initial idea but haven't put any clay or soil on top of the gravel. The yard is much more dry and doesn't slosh around on the surface even after 4 days of rain.

@@seshy11 thanks, Victoria🤙.

Yes. That’s the point with testing - you need to find the point of failure. Without that it’s still just theorising.

@@DiscoFang Thats my point. None of them failed. So its kind of pointless test.

Not true. I am a geotechnical inspector and look at these in volume every single day. Like the presenter said, all fabrics aren’t equal. Use a rated geo fabric designed for professionals and it will last decades. Rock is not a filter. It’s open graded, containing pores in which water and soil will travel rather quickly. As this happens, not only does your system become clogged but you generate voids in the fill above the drain. This introduces a whole new set of potential problems. Settlement, trip hazards, irregular surfaces and failures. It all depends on what’s above the drain. The soils go down and they leave voids. I’ve seen them travel all the way up to the surface and create large sinkholes. Use the fabric it’ll save you a lot of headaches! You can omit the fabric if you use a rated filter rock but it’s very expensive and the quarries will bait and switch by selling you a product that “looks” good but won’t work. Filter rock is highly engineered and must be tested to confirm that it is what it is! Like I said, it’s expensive. I hope this helps you a little.

@@stewartwhittier3455 So why is there clay in the rock on the far right experiment with the surface drain in it?

@@benkenobi671 Hi Ben! I hope I get the intent of your question, I had to watch the video again to see what you are talking about. There are 3 possible answers. If you're talking about the appearance of soil you can see through the box, below the fabric, I'm guessing that when building the box some soil got in there. If you're looking at the presence of muddy water in the solid pipe, that migrated there from the top during surface drainage. Most clay floats to a certain extent. If you look at the perf pipe on the right of the box, there's no water. Given time there will be. Lastly the possibility exists that the muddy water in the box rolled down the side of the box around the outside of the fabric into the rock. All of this presents an interesting scenario that we use in large commercial construction where the stakes are very high if one of these systems fail. I've been called out to mitigate failed drainage systems that contributed to retaining wall failure that jeopardized life and limb and shut down a whole Home Depot parking lot for ages. Big bucks! Soil migration into rock is a serious situation and can cause disasters. We recommend in our geotechnical reports that all sub drains/wall drains have a burrito drain installed at the base of the wall. This prevents water migrating into the rock from unwanted areas and almost removes failure options. When installed, the rock/pipe/rock combo is wrapped with ends folded over securely creating a closed drain system. This is way better than the method of just laying the fabric over the rock between soil and rock. The method in the video works but not forever, plus, what about the side walls where there is no fabric? There is a high probability migration occurs this way. It's not just from above. For garden and residential applications if you do what Dr. Drains is doing you'll be head and shoulders above most. In fairness to Dr. Drains, he may cover all side walls during construction and that's good. But, unless you have a burrito, you'll get clogged gravel in time. If you want a near foolproof solution and an effective one, go with a burrito drain. We won't approve any work without one. I hope this helps! By the way, the presenter of this video is very knowledgable and presenting very useful info! All...use commercial filter fabric, always! Go to a supplier of these materials, don't source at box stores.